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Topic : 06/21 "Throw It Out!"

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Created on : Friday, January 27, 2006, 02:40:01 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 02/01/06) Do you know someone who can't seem to get rid of their clutter? They keep newspapers, magazines, old clothes, and just plain junk thinking it will come in handy one day. Dr. Phil talks to extreme hoarders, who are embarrassing their families and destroying their homes. Nancy says her husband, John, is a packrat who turned their beautiful four-bedroom home into what she calls "the black hole." The house became so overcrowded with junk that they were forced to live in a trailer, and now the trailer is nearly filled to the brim! Will John and Nancy ever be able to live in their house again? And how is John's hoarding affecting their three children? Then, Misty saves every piece of paper her kids write on, and every article of clothing they've ever worn. Her husband, Greg, can't understand why she can't just toss them out. What's behind her inability to throw things away? Share your stories, join the discussion.

 

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June 21, 2006, 7:58 pm PDT

06/21 "Throw It Out!"

Quote From: afraid

just for a moment lets say god is coming to visit you in your home, are you happy with what god will see?

As cluttered as my house is, and if I am in fact a hoarder (or a pack rat to say the least) If God were to come into my house, he would look past the clutter, and see the love and the happiness within my house - so to answer your question - I am Very happy with what God would see.  

 
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June 21, 2006, 8:04 pm PDT

06/21 "Throw It Out!"

Quote From: afraid

just for a moment lets say god is coming to visit you in your home, are you happy with what god will see?

That doesn't make sense....He already knows all and sees all. 

 
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June 21, 2006, 8:25 pm PDT

06/21 "Throw It Out!"

I know someone who is might be a hoarder.  Her house is a rundown shack, broken windows, blankets and sheets stuffed in the windows, sheets for curtains, windows are filthy.  yard is overgrown, toys all over.  Inside is filthy.  Not just dirty.  FILTHY.  bags of garbage not taken out, dirty dishes EVERYWHERE. Including food left on dishes.   She is the sister of my best friend.  Best friend tells me, "You dont' know my sister, she's just lazy"   I'm sorry, but as lazy as my boyfriend is,  even HE isnt' that far gone. This woman is obviously mentally incapable of keeping the house clean and not throwing anything out.    I beleive she suffers very bad from depression, but my Best friend still thinks she is just lazy.  If that's lazy, I'd hate to see what depression looks like.   She's got 2 kids, they're 15 and maybe 12 or 11.  (boy and girl respectively)   I feel for them.  They must not ever bring anyone over their house.  :(  I bet they both move out when they turn 18, just like everyone else in the rest of the family did in generations before.  (some even 17 and 16, just to get away from the horrible family conditions...my Best friend included)
 
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June 21, 2006, 9:53 pm PDT

Horder/OCD

Hi Dr. Phil,  My husband Robert & I have been seeing a physcologist.  The reason is because he's a big time horder and has OCD.  I've told the physcologist....but she doesn't seem to even talk about this topic at all....are we wasting our time...or my time.  I'm the one who's having a hard time dealing with it.  I hate coming home, our 10 & 12 yr old girls & I are embarrassed to have anyone over.  I freeze when theres a knock on the door.  Its very depressing.  I hate him for doing this to us.  He has unopened mail from years ago saved all over the place, tons of empty plastic bottles...water bottles or soda bottles, some with water but most empty.  Everything is just thrown in, no order.  Papers galore,  the gargage is filled to capacity..nothing else fits...so now even the big stuff is coming in the house.  He's got 6 cars, 2 of them in the garage haven't moved in like 8yrs....and they're filled with stuff inside them.  Its crazy!!  I've gotten no help from his family, so I turned to a physcologist.  I've begged him over the years for me to clean it up for him........he would go nuts, yelling at me not to dare touch his stuff.  He has told me over the years that he'd take care of his stuff, but he has to go through everything.  I gave up on his words....I just have no faith in what he tells me anymore.  Robert also has OCD,  he constantly checks..and counts 1,2,3....1,2,3 over and over as he's checking things until something in his head tells him its done.  I hate leaving the house with him...something we don't do much anymore....it takes him too long to check the house and the girls and I have to wait outside,  and I pray no one has to go back in for anythinig otherwise he has to start all over!  Very frustrating....lots of tears, and tons of arguments....and yes, i've grown to hate him for all this.  He says he doesn't have ocd and he's not a horder, he just has no time.  Dr. Phil, am I waisting my time with this physcologist?  We are seeing the  physcologist to see if we can get some of this straigtened out to keep the family together for the girls. 

 Thank You for listening......Karen  

  

 
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June 21, 2006, 9:53 pm PDT

Lifelong Trauma

I only recently became familiar with the term "hoarder" when I found myself described in a newspaper article.. I was so relieved because I have been confused by the painful feelings "throwing away" or "getting rid of" things brings to me.  My family members are scornful of my "keeping things" and I have only lately gotten my sister to understand how painful it is for me to be forced to throw out things.  I felt sorry for the girl on today's show as I understand her confusion completely.  I finally do get rid of things, but only after keeping them for way too long, suffering with too much to keep it properly organized, and lately it seems my condition is getting worse.  I do mourn for things which I have been forced to put into storage, don't know exactly where they are.  I moved twice in my younger life and each time was traumatic, as I was forced to get rid of some things.  I am very resentful of those people, such as my husband, who have bullied me into getting rid of things, or, at least that is the way I see it.   

  

Right now, I am at a standstill.  My house is gone and I live in an apartment.  It is stuffed.  Having company was the only thing that caused me to throw things out....I seem to have lost that mental push completely...can't seem to get there anymore.  No motivation at all right now.  I just leave my dwelling instead of coping. 

 
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June 21, 2006, 11:04 pm PDT

Hoarder?

My hoarding is not to the extent of the guests today, but I listened with interest at the reasoning behind the hoarding.  My mother is a hoarder, however, her house is large enough to contain all the many possessions behind closed doors.  Mine is another story as well as my brothers.  I'm overworking as part of my addiction and don't have the time to get everything done.  It seems that paper multiplies while I'm away from the house.  My home is not dirty, just cluttered because I don't have enough area to "hide" everything.  My drawers and closets are in great shape; it's just the remaining "stuff" which doesn't have a "home".  I have wonderful hopes of getting everything in order, but get overwhelmed and don't know where to start.   

   

Part of my problem, which is also one of the problems where my brother experiences difficulty, is that our mother couldn't get rid of things and so she has given us her furniture, nick nacks, etc.  I visited my brother's house for the first time and it looked like a smaller version of my parent's home.  Spending time with him recently helped me see how our addictions are similar.  My younger brother, in his own way, responded to the clutter by keeping very little.  His wife says she knows when he has been with the family because he takes on cleaning out with a new fervor.   

   

I teach out of my home and I fear the parents are going back and telling other parents about my lack of skills in decluttering.  It's embarrasing, but I seem to try to laugh it off and just warn them about what to expect.   

   

I desperately need someone to help organize me.  Do you have any suggestions?    

   

Overwhelmed and overstuffed with stuff!   

 
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June 21, 2006, 11:31 pm PDT

Envision a new life for your stuff

I know there is more to hoarding than I understand.  I am just hoping to give the hoarders another way at looking at their stuff.  I like to personify things like some of them do as well.  But if you can start with just one thing like newspapers and magazines and realize if you put these things in the recycle and not the trash, they have the opportunity to become something new and wonderful.  Like a catapillar turning into a butterfly.  This could be a first step.  Then all the cans and plastics - they get recycled into something new.    

   

Donate things to help others.  That extra baby seat and those baby clothes could be bringing great joy to another child and their parents/grandparents.  If you keep clothes too long, the elactic becomes powdery and you've allowed this garment to die, but if you donate it or resell it, you've helped to continue its life.  The same is true of so many things.  If it sits out, it can become dusty and sad.  It may take in just enough moisture from the air to rust and become sad.  When you watch movies that animate "things" - these living "things" are always thrilled to be used or kept up and they are sad when stored, dirty, un-used or set aside.   

   

As far as value "someday", they may or may not have value - but you and your loved ones are more valuable than piles of "someday".  You and your loved ones are here "today" and your value is immeasurable!! ;-)  If you animate the things, they would be sad to be lying around doing nothing and more sad that they are dragging you down.  If you personify these items like a family member and they could speak to you, they would ask, no beg you to find them new homes so that you could have a better life.    

   

Not all has to be trashed.  Many things now days can be recycled or donated to re-sell and benefit someone less fortunate than you.  How thrilled these items would be to help you by leaving and then to help others on their next journey.   

   

Best Wishes for Clutter Free Future!!   

 
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June 21, 2006, 11:39 pm PDT

I'm so glad for the motivation

                             I really enjoyed the show today,I also have a very disaorganized house.My problem is I get very frustrated,because in my mind I see everything spotless,I want that so much.Its not that I save things its that I do not have proper storage,I am married with 4 Boys,we have a big house,but I never ask for anything that could help me out,with getting organised,I do not have a dresser, I have  a small shop Vacumn to clean thats it.None of my furniture matches.I find when I try to wake up with a positive additude & am ready to jump in and clean my husband who works night shift comes home & sleeps in the room which really frustrates me cause I can never seem to get in my room and clean.,and I have to keep the house quite cause him & my son both work shift work .I was not always messy I just get overwhelmed cause I think how can my husband & boys not see the mess.My boys rooms are very clean no complaints there,its the spare room that they decide to put boxes in instead puttting it where it belongs.I get mad at them because I ask them all to pitch in and take stuff to the Salavtion Army ,but I end up tripping over it,cause they say tommorow I will take it out.In the past  I had loaded the Van so they had no choice but to empty it.but now we have a very small car so nothing I want to get rid of fits in the car.I plan to have a big garage sale at least with the money I can get a dresser & a vacumn.I do find myself a perfectionist when I do organize I go crazy,everything is labeled,and put in the proper place.When I do that my sisiters laugh at me cause I go from one extreme to another,so I'm not sure how I can get more organized,as I can not stand the mess,and I am so embarrassed because it is.So any hints on how I can get my husband & sons to pitch in a bit more,with out getting in a fight? 

 
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June 22, 2006, 3:32 am PDT

Got your point.....but

Quote From: coopjake

After reading your two lengthly posts it dawned on me that you are blaming your circumstances on your husband when you really need look no further than your mirror.  If, in your words, your husband was neglectful and selfish before you had the children why would it take you four kids to figure out that he wasn't going to change?  OK, I can kinda understand how you could end up with one or even two children without the luxury of birth control but not four.  Only you can prevent your own reproduction Ms Smokey Bear.  After the first two "Just Say No".....period.  All the thrift shopping in the world will not change a mean and spiteful spirit.  Nope, that's just passive/aggressive behavior on your part not hoarding.    

  

And I'm not trying to be mean here I'm just trying to understand your rationalization of your situation.  Your post is well written, correctly spelled, punctuation in all the proper spots, so clearly you are an intelligent, educated woman.  Why, oh why didn't you change your situation long ago.......pre motherhood?  And even now you mention that your children are teens and a 10-year-old.  Why haven't you gotten back into the game and earned your own way, if your financial position bothers you so much?  Staying in this abusive (your words) situation and saving "stuff" for the divorce makes absolutely no sense to me.  As well, that's a fine example you are setting for your teen girls.  Children learn what they live, especially from their same-sex parent....so says Dr. Phil.  

  

You truly do teach people how to treat you.  Stand up and be the woman I know you can be.  Take control of your own destiny.  Show your daughters what a bright, resourceful person you are by getting back in the game (so to speak) not by being the thrift queen of year.  You were once employable and I'm betting you still are.  The ball is in your court not your husband's.  Hell go work at the Thrift shop that you so enjoy, or better yet round up all that "stuff" your hoarding and start your own.  You can start small with a booth at a flea market and grow a client base from there.  The possibilities are endless.  Those socks you're buying at less than cost could be re-sold for a profit as well as the other clothing.  Your potential is only limited by your own self-pity.    

   First of all I am now 52 years old, old enough to have difficulty finding a decent /livable wage/paying job at my age and if so lucky keeping up with it physically,  I certainally cannot hope to get to the point of making enough money to "start over from scratch" and even hope to support myself and the two youngest, second I have over the years been self employed , and believe me it is NOT enough to live on exclusively. (I was making quite a bit of "egg" money through selling many hand made/second hand items and occassionally a full time job).  Third, I planned for my future financially by services rendered through the years as part of the  "man the fort, stay at home with the kids" partnership of marriage  that ENTITLES me and our children to benefit from the proceeds of my supporting HIS earning OUR money.  

   I really do NOT understand the attitude of many that "just leaving" fixes much of anything.  I will still have contact because of the children and it is my desire that it be on "good terms" if at all possible.  It is often "out of the pan" and into the fire, and pride going before a fall that gets "single moms" in deep do do.   I cannot afford to think only of myself, at this late date. I have a responsibility to see that these children (he HAS a responsibility for their being here too! With or without the purchase and use of birthcontrol) are not "caught in the middle" and punished further by their fathers "he is the boss of the money"  and I am second class with no contribution of any value  attitudes.  They feel the "guilt" through his beratement of me. I have been unable to get him to understand this effect at all. So be it.     

  I will admit that what he sees as being "irresponsible" with money, is his man stuff and his  total lack of understanding just what it costs to feed a family formerly of six people or that girls by nature of the sex have costly needs, especially monthly ones and others far beyond what a male child might "get by on". I guess this is what is know as irreconcilable differences? 

    Clearly, he has difficulty, to say the least in not "calling me on the carpet" in front of the kids.  I am very concerned how this "attitude" affects the youngest. Lets just say I have "learned through my mistakes" with the others that I really DON"T want to subject her to anymore of this no matter who is right and who is wrong here.  

    I strongly resent and disagree with his need to "BLAME" someone other than himself for his responsibilities to his family financially and emotionally.  I am preparing for what I see, NOW, as the inevitable as his attitudes have gotten much worse in the last ten years AFTER our last child was born. No one can prepare for a husbands "mid life" crisis exaggeration of what previously might be deemed a somewhat  managable  if totally unwelcome problem. I just don't WANT to deal with "attitudes" anymore. That is MY choice. Birth control HAS to be paid for and tolerated  and USED to be effective. I have been fixed for the last six  yrs.so that is not a problem, a total LACK of a sex life is.  (So was his "get you fat ass up, so I can get back to work " attitudes during the recovery period".) He would rather focus on what a "good" caretaker he was, NOT.  

    He  more and more often says many things when stressed  (giving what others need) that are very hurtful and inexcusable.  If you make too much money...........you cannot get it for FREE.  Yes you can abstain, and had that  and the USE of birth control not be done from time to time I would have had many more children. Please do not insult me with your education in that respect. I do know where they come from and why. It is my husband that has a problem with that one and in begrudging the COST of birth-control in the past.  

    I do not resent or regret my children,(but I do resent my so called "resent your own kids" attitudes he has invented   as being the problem when what I resent is HIS attitudes and misplaced priorities, and  that being painted as "the problem" by my husbands misguided reasoning)  but I have ALWAYS resented my husbands "me first"  attitudes that have grown intolerable over the years.  

    He has been a good provider, he just won't let go  of it without resentment and fuss and blame to ME for the needs of US. He has also gotten VERY inconsistant in how much, what and in what way I can spend "his money", it changes daily. It was the asking for cash (self protection) rather than checks or credit cards (a set up to hang me with all the bills?) and the inconsistancy and total lack of "stick to it" that has pushed this to something I just DON't want to live with anymore.  

    He has a problem accepting MENTAL responsibility, and like a lot of men harbors deep resentment when he CANNOT put himself FIRST. In these latter years, the mid life years, this has gotten much worse and due to "my standing up" for my right as his wife to have some money and some "say" without the blame game.......there is constant FIGHTING.  

    Lastly I can "spend" I just have to be willing to "give the pound of flesh" before and after. It is the "guilt trips" and perhaps his total "money issues" of control, and resentment, that have become unbearable. He and men like him are very common, and many women deal with this "attitude".   I just don't WANT to anymore. As he approached mid life, and his retirement he has gotten MUCH worse.  He "creates" problems, acts like a teenager and then blames someone else for them.  I get to be the "scape goat" for his internal issues and the cleanup crew for the ensuing messes.  I don't want to anymore, and frankly I don't HAVE to as my kids are no longer babies and I have EARNED my half of his retirement checks.  

    I do resent, while seeing your point the "moocher" aspects you apparently chose to see. This is NOT about mooching..........I know the work I have done for this family, on the home front. I know the state says it has/had VALUE, it is my husband that doesn't see it that way. He will be the one needing to be "looking for a job" after  this  "value of a partnership" lesson is "taught "by the state that indeed I do qualify for half and then some.   

    I may need to work to have insurance coverage. One way I will need less, is the hoarding of "everyday items" and clothing, as they are often the real costs to single moms. I do not worry about making rent or buying groceries............everything else has been saved or stashed.  Getting a job, unless it proves I need it, will just do me out of what I have already EARNED through the marriage. I will not need to "do without" or live like a pauper. That was my "financial plan" when it was clear he was getting worse NOT better in his attitudes.  

     Second, it was the standing up for myself (and my children)  and NOT backing down for ANY reason that preceeded the total WAR that resulted in my current bad situation.   Sometimes you must view a situation for some time before the "obvious"  to others aspects really hit home. Some things are "circumstantial" and some things are a permanant part of someone's personality. Some people manipulate so well that it really is hard to spot which is which. That was said in my post.  

    I also know I am by far not the only woman to find herself between the devil and the deep blue sea when it comes to being pridefull enough to "just walk out" vs staying till the time was "right" . Always much easier said than done, especially if the children THE TWO OF YOU HAD, are able to be "used against you".  

  I have gone the "flea market" route in the past  and believe me you cannot support a family on earnings from flea markets, unless you devote FULL time to it  24/7 and frankly the bottom is out of that type market and I am no longer able to lift, tote lug and otherwise physically make that possible.  

   My husband is retired from TWO gov/city jobs and it would actually be to my disadvantage to seek employment if I plan to divorice, except for health insurance. He is going to be the one on the short end of that stick, needing another job, however you cannot count on "sympathy" with the mother anymore as to just what the courts will do.  

   I am not going to go with the "parasitic" view of myself that so many suscribe to women who have devoted their lives (not to mention financial security to the concept of  living off their husbands salary while supporting his earning of it). I do not see myself as a parasite to him for his/our  income be it before of after his retirement. To do so  only adds to the belief that so many have, that a wife has no value or  claim to her husbands money because she did not earn it. I feel I did earn it it ways any servant, laundry service, nurse, grounds keeper,  prostitue, housekeeper, babysitter, cook, yardman, household repair service  or other paid employee does.    Your statements that I "have some pride and earn my own money"  kinda adds to that misconception of "no value" without a paycheck that I only adds fuel to this fire of misconception of a  some peoples idea of partnership in marriage.  

  The whole idea behinds women's lib (I know I was there when it started full force in the sixties) was CHOICE in how one "makes a living or earns their way". Not enforced concepts of no value without a paycheck.  It was the misguided concepts that a woman staying home is of no value (and has no vote)  that started the whole woman's lib thing in the late 1800's. Equal rights, equal choices. Not more devaluing of a woman worth due to  maritial status or sex.  

    I take great pride in MY work and contributions just like anyone working for a "check" does. My girls have learned that valuable lesson from me. To hear their father tell it, he is the only hero in the family. I say there should be two heros in OUR family. Again irreconcilable differences? 

   When I married this man............I knew little about him, other than his words and place of employment.  You cannot really KNOW someone unless you live with them, and for the most part he was gone so much living with him daily for long periods wasn't an issue. Retirement changed all that, and I miss "niceness",  real partnership, sex and companionship. The sex part I obviously had, the companionship rarely.  

    That,  not REALLY knowing him or being given the chance to, I now know wasn't the best thing to do.  He clearly disagreed or like a lot of men, saw me as "bought and paid for" and forgot I was here and doing my end of the work for the family by CHOICE.   

   I also have "guilt" for sometimes I did take advantage of his "nice guy" periods, so I could deal with the "stingly guy" part that followed. I suppose many would call it passive aggression in me, but he taught me well how to manipulate with that. I am NOT proud of this but one does what one must at times. I just no longer want to live "in guilt"  but in pride of who, and what I know I am. It has become very clear to me it is a waste of the years I have left to hope he will know it or show it.  

    However, as many women will tell you other than his "control/greed" he can alternate  that with "doing all the right things"  and extreme generosity (that he totally begrudges later) just enough to make one question ones own perceptions. It happens  in many marriages all the time. He grew up during the depression, and I think we all make "allowances" for our mates baggage.  I had some really hard times when young and that has been held over me. That is until it gets the better of them and they are "out of control" with their behavior.  I can honestly say, the situation what it is we are both out of control with it. We are fighting more than anything else we do. I do not want myself or my girls in this enviorment anymore.  

  The only problem I have with my daughters respecting me, comes from his "blame game" and need to put it all on me as a "spendthrift", not a thrifty spender providing for her family. He is doing this to justify, the bad attitudes and habits he developed and cultivated that really have little to do with me, and more to do with were he is coming from.  

   I have given them a great example of how to stand up for oneself and that making the money, isn't the only contribution of value to a marriage, or life  and by standing firm in the face of adversity for ones RIGHTS by not letting them be taken away without a fight (it is the fighting part that really annoys me however) , through the years and by NOT being controlled by his "attitudes" and by seeing to them getting what they need.  I am exhausted with the "counterbalance" act however.  

   In financial times like these, they have learned many valuable lessons regarding thrift and I am very proud to see the daughter that has left home, shops secondhand, is both thrifty and creative and makes do and makes better. She is totally self employed,  has a beautify magazine view home, many  items which I gave her  from my barn of "hoarded" second hand furniture, or  with items she acquired second hand and she is making 50.00 a half hour. So apparently I did something right in SPITE of my husbands "bad attitudes" and my so called mooching dependance by some.  

  I appreciate your post, am not angry, but  perhaps a tad defensive and will consider your points as somewhat valid if not totally appreciative of the situation.  

 
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June 22, 2006, 5:15 am PDT

Have been wondering what is wrong

When I saw the sad man and the lovely gal yesterday, they were like the friends I have only dreamed to meet.  They spoke my heart.  My house was so bad my friends came and helped my husband.  When my husband cleans the house I go to bed and cannot help him, as it creates such confusion to me.  I don't know where to start.  I have everything I have ever owned, except clothes.  Well, a few years back I did unload, but now have the same mess.  I hate it, but can't seem to change it, as I never really was aware of it.  I too save jars, boxes, burned out light bulbs, bags of peanuts from packing.  I keep old  clothes from loved ones, and I don't even have kids. I regret ever cleaning out when I do.  I also go through the trash to make sure nothing has been thrown out.  It was so wonderful (misery loves company) to hear those people and relate to their emotions.  I tell you I have really tried and cannot overcome this, except for brief periods when I am "trying to be good".  I am more like the sweet gal that was on there. (not sweet, but her story is my story)  I have been this way all of my life as I have everything from my childhood and can remember losing almost anything I have lost. I have many medical problems and thought perhaps I just didn't feel like cleaning it, it was so overwhelming.  Now I am wondering if something truly is wrong in my brain.  When Dr. Phil said that, it was the only thing that sounded like it made any sense to me at all in years about this situation.  How my husband can love me is beyond me. 
 
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