Topic : 06/21 "Throw It Out!"

   First of all I am now 52 years old, old enough to have difficulty finding a decent /livable wage/paying job at my age and if so lucky keeping up with it physically,  I certainally cannot hope to get to the point of making enough money to "start over from scratch" and even hope to support myself and the two youngest, second I have over the years been self employed , and believe me it is NOT enough to live on exclusively. (I was making quite a bit of "egg" money through selling many hand made/second hand items and occassionally a full time job).  Third, I planned for my future financially by services rendered through the years as part of the  "man the fort, stay at home with the kids" partnership of marriage  that ENTITLES me and our children to benefit from the proceeds of my supporting HIS earning OUR money.  

   I really do NOT understand the attitude of many that "just leaving" fixes much of anything.  I will still have contact because of the children and it is my desire that it be on "good terms" if at all possible.  It is often "out of the pan" and into the fire, and pride going before a fall that gets "single moms" in deep do do.   I cannot afford to think only of myself, at this late date. I have a responsibility to see that these children (he HAS a responsibility for their being here too! With or without the purchase and use of birthcontrol) are not "caught in the middle" and punished further by their fathers "he is the boss of the money"  and I am second class with no contribution of any value  attitudes.  They feel the "guilt" through his beratement of me. I have been unable to get him to understand this effect at all. So be it.     

  I will admit that what he sees as being "irresponsible" with money, is his man stuff and his  total lack of understanding just what it costs to feed a family formerly of six people or that girls by nature of the sex have costly needs, especially monthly ones and others far beyond what a male child might "get by on". I guess this is what is know as irreconcilable differences? 

    Clearly, he has difficulty, to say the least in not "calling me on the carpet" in front of the kids.  I am very concerned how this "attitude" affects the youngest. Lets just say I have "learned through my mistakes" with the others that I really DON"T want to subject her to anymore of this no matter who is right and who is wrong here.  

    I strongly resent and disagree with his need to "BLAME" someone other than himself for his responsibilities to his family financially and emotionally.  I am preparing for what I see, NOW, as the inevitable as his attitudes have gotten much worse in the last ten years AFTER our last child was born. No one can prepare for a husbands "mid life" crisis exaggeration of what previously might be deemed a somewhat  managable  if totally unwelcome problem. I just don't WANT to deal with "attitudes" anymore. That is MY choice. Birth control HAS to be paid for and tolerated  and USED to be effective. I have been fixed for the last six  yrs.so that is not a problem, a total LACK of a sex life is.  (So was his "get you fat ass up, so I can get back to work " attitudes during the recovery period".) He would rather focus on what a "good" caretaker he was, NOT.  

    He  more and more often says many things when stressed  (giving what others need) that are very hurtful and inexcusable.  If you make too much money...........you cannot get it for FREE.  Yes you can abstain, and had that  and the USE of birth control not be done from time to time I would have had many more children. Please do not insult me with your education in that respect. I do know where they come from and why. It is my husband that has a problem with that one and in begrudging the COST of birth-control in the past.  

    I do not resent or regret my children,(but I do resent my so called "resent your own kids" attitudes he has invented   as being the problem when what I resent is HIS attitudes and misplaced priorities, and  that being painted as "the problem" by my husbands misguided reasoning)  but I have ALWAYS resented my husbands "me first"  attitudes that have grown intolerable over the years.  

    He has been a good provider, he just won't let go  of it without resentment and fuss and blame to ME for the needs of US. He has also gotten VERY inconsistant in how much, what and in what way I can spend "his money", it changes daily. It was the asking for cash (self protection) rather than checks or credit cards (a set up to hang me with all the bills?) and the inconsistancy and total lack of "stick to it" that has pushed this to something I just DON't want to live with anymore.  

    He has a problem accepting MENTAL responsibility, and like a lot of men harbors deep resentment when he CANNOT put himself FIRST. In these latter years, the mid life years, this has gotten much worse and due to "my standing up" for my right as his wife to have some money and some "say" without the blame game.......there is constant FIGHTING.  

    Lastly I can "spend" I just have to be willing to "give the pound of flesh" before and after. It is the "guilt trips" and perhaps his total "money issues" of control, and resentment, that have become unbearable. He and men like him are very common, and many women deal with this "attitude".   I just don't WANT to anymore. As he approached mid life, and his retirement he has gotten MUCH worse.  He "creates" problems, acts like a teenager and then blames someone else for them.  I get to be the "scape goat" for his internal issues and the cleanup crew for the ensuing messes.  I don't want to anymore, and frankly I don't HAVE to as my kids are no longer babies and I have EARNED my half of his retirement checks.  

    I do resent, while seeing your point the "moocher" aspects you apparently chose to see. This is NOT about mooching..........I know the work I have done for this family, on the home front. I know the state says it has/had VALUE, it is my husband that doesn't see it that way. He will be the one needing to be "looking for a job" after  this  "value of a partnership" lesson is "taught "by the state that indeed I do qualify for half and then some.   

    I may need to work to have insurance coverage. One way I will need less, is the hoarding of "everyday items" and clothing, as they are often the real costs to single moms. I do not worry about making rent or buying groceries............everything else has been saved or stashed.  Getting a job, unless it proves I need it, will just do me out of what I have already EARNED through the marriage. I will not need to "do without" or live like a pauper. That was my "financial plan" when it was clear he was getting worse NOT better in his attitudes.  

     Second, it was the standing up for myself (and my children)  and NOT backing down for ANY reason that preceeded the total WAR that resulted in my current bad situation.   Sometimes you must view a situation for some time before the "obvious"  to others aspects really hit home. Some things are "circumstantial" and some things are a permanant part of someone's personality. Some people manipulate so well that it really is hard to spot which is which. That was said in my post.  

    I also know I am by far not the only woman to find herself between the devil and the deep blue sea when it comes to being pridefull enough to "just walk out" vs staying till the time was "right" . Always much easier said than done, especially if the children THE TWO OF YOU HAD, are able to be "used against you".  

  I have gone the "flea market" route in the past  and believe me you cannot support a family on earnings from flea markets, unless you devote FULL time to it  24/7 and frankly the bottom is out of that type market and I am no longer able to lift, tote lug and otherwise physically make that possible.  

   My husband is retired from TWO gov/city jobs and it would actually be to my disadvantage to seek employment if I plan to divorice, except for health insurance. He is going to be the one on the short end of that stick, needing another job, however you cannot count on "sympathy" with the mother anymore as to just what the courts will do.  

   I am not going to go with the "parasitic" view of myself that so many suscribe to women who have devoted their lives (not to mention financial security to the concept of  living off their husbands salary while supporting his earning of it). I do not see myself as a parasite to him for his/our  income be it before of after his retirement. To do so  only adds to the belief that so many have, that a wife has no value or  claim to her husbands money because she did not earn it. I feel I did earn it it ways any servant, laundry service, nurse, grounds keeper,  prostitue, housekeeper, babysitter, cook, yardman, household repair service  or other paid employee does.    Your statements that I "have some pride and earn my own money"  kinda adds to that misconception of "no value" without a paycheck that I only adds fuel to this fire of misconception of a  some peoples idea of partnership in marriage.  

  The whole idea behinds women's lib (I know I was there when it started full force in the sixties) was CHOICE in how one "makes a living or earns their way". Not enforced concepts of no value without a paycheck.  It was the misguided concepts that a woman staying home is of no value (and has no vote)  that started the whole woman's lib thing in the late 1800's. Equal rights, equal choices. Not more devaluing of a woman worth due to  maritial status or sex.  

    I take great pride in MY work and contributions just like anyone working for a "check" does. My girls have learned that valuable lesson from me. To hear their father tell it, he is the only hero in the family. I say there should be two heros in OUR family. Again irreconcilable differences? 

   When I married this man............I knew little about him, other than his words and place of employment.  You cannot really KNOW someone unless you live with them, and for the most part he was gone so much living with him daily for long periods wasn't an issue. Retirement changed all that, and I miss "niceness",  real partnership, sex and companionship. The sex part I obviously had, the companionship rarely.  

    That,  not REALLY knowing him or being given the chance to, I now know wasn't the best thing to do.  He clearly disagreed or like a lot of men, saw me as "bought and paid for" and forgot I was here and doing my end of the work for the family by CHOICE.   

   I also have "guilt" for sometimes I did take advantage of his "nice guy" periods, so I could deal with the "stingly guy" part that followed. I suppose many would call it passive aggression in me, but he taught me well how to manipulate with that. I am NOT proud of this but one does what one must at times. I just no longer want to live "in guilt"  but in pride of who, and what I know I am. It has become very clear to me it is a waste of the years I have left to hope he will know it or show it.  

    However, as many women will tell you other than his "control/greed" he can alternate  that with "doing all the right things"  and extreme generosity (that he totally begrudges later) just enough to make one question ones own perceptions. It happens  in many marriages all the time. He grew up during the depression, and I think we all make "allowances" for our mates baggage.  I had some really hard times when young and that has been held over me. That is until it gets the better of them and they are "out of control" with their behavior.  I can honestly say, the situation what it is we are both out of control with it. We are fighting more than anything else we do. I do not want myself or my girls in this enviorment anymore.  

  The only problem I have with my daughters respecting me, comes from his "blame game" and need to put it all on me as a "spendthrift", not a thrifty spender providing for her family. He is doing this to justify, the bad attitudes and habits he developed and cultivated that really have little to do with me, and more to do with were he is coming from.  

   I have given them a great example of how to stand up for oneself and that making the money, isn't the only contribution of value to a marriage, or life  and by standing firm in the face of adversity for ones RIGHTS by not letting them be taken away without a fight (it is the fighting part that really annoys me however) , through the years and by NOT being controlled by his "attitudes" and by seeing to them getting what they need.  I am exhausted with the "counterbalance" act however.  

   In financial times like these, they have learned many valuable lessons regarding thrift and I am very proud to see the daughter that has left home, shops secondhand, is both thrifty and creative and makes do and makes better. She is totally self employed,  has a beautify magazine view home, many  items which I gave her  from my barn of "hoarded" second hand furniture, or  with items she acquired second hand and she is making 50.00 a half hour. So apparently I did something right in SPITE of my husbands "bad attitudes" and my so called mooching dependance by some.  

  I appreciate your post, am not angry, but  perhaps a tad defensive and will consider your points as somewhat valid if not totally appreciative of the situation.  

I recently left a 14-year marriage.  One of the major factors was my husband's inability to listen or be concerned about anyone but himself where our home was concerned.  A few years ago, while between jobs, he decided to provide family support by buying items at auctions and selling them on e-bay for profit.  He did okay for an "in-between" job, however, it didn't stay "in-between".   

Even after becoming employed, he continued to buy, and buy and buy and buy.  For 3 - 4 years, we and our four children, lifed in a warehouse.  Boxes and boxes stacked everywhere.  Shelving set up around every wall.  Couldn't see the couch, much less sit on it.  Was fortunate if I could push things back so that one person could sit at the table at a time and eat.  (No more family meals - no room!!)  Garage was so full things fell when you walked through.  At points in time, there was no more than a 12-15" pathway from the front door to the refrigerator to the bathroom to the multiple computers, to the bed.   

The stories from the families destroyed by having their homes converted to makeshift storage facilities was so real to me.  After having enjoyed for several years being able to open my home for dinner parties, enjoy weekly family get-togethers, kids having friends over, I fell into a terrible depression.  Trying to not be a nag, I attempted to express my frustration calmly and maturely.  It didn't work.   

My now ex-husband lives in an apartment very close to our home so we can both be near our children.  His apartment looks like a smaller version of what our house looked like for those last few years.  He's again "in-between" jobs and is using e-bay for income.   

As for my home.  The highlight of the past year for me has been my ability to once again get my car in the garage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I feel so sorry for all the wives of e-bayers out there and can't tell you how I wish he could have seen the light and am worried he never will. 

My hoarding is not to the extent of the guests today, but I listened with interest at the reasoning behind the hoarding.  My mother is a hoarder, however, her house is large enough to contain all the many possessions behind closed doors.  Mine is another story as well as my brothers.  I'm overworking as part of my addiction and don't have the time to get everything done.  It seems that paper multiplies while I'm away from the house.  My home is not dirty, just cluttered because I don't have enough area to "hide" everything.  My drawers and closets are in great shape; it's just the remaining "stuff" which doesn't have a "home".  I have wonderful hopes of getting everything in order, but get overwhelmed and don't know where to start.   

Part of my problem, which is also one of the problems where my brother experiences difficulty, is that our mother couldn't get rid of things and so she has given us her furniture, nick nacks, etc.  I visited my brother's house for the first time and it looked like a smaller version of my parent's home.  Spending time with him recently helped me see how our addictions are similar.  My younger brother, in his own way, responded to the clutter by keeping very little.  His wife says she knows when he has been with the family because he takes on cleaning out with a new fervor.   

I teach out of my home and I fear the parents are going back and telling other parents about my lack of skills in decluttering.  It's embarrasing, but I seem to try to laugh it off and just warn them about what to expect.   

I desperately need someone to help organize me.  Do you have any suggestions?    

Overwhelmed and overstuffed with stuff!