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Topic : 02/10 Last Chance

Number of Replies: 343
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Created on : Friday, February 03, 2006, 04:22:21 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

If your marriage is on the rocks, how do you know whether to call it quits or give it one more try? April says that after only a few months of marriage, she received a voicemail on her cell phone from her husband, Jon, saying that he wanted a divorce. This was while she was in the hospital connected to a feeding tube! She says she has no idea what changed all of a sudden and wants some answers. Jon just wants her to sign the divorce papers. Should they try to work things out and give their marriage another try? Then, Kristen is torn between keeping her family and marriage together, or keeping the sparks alive with her current lover. Her husband, Brian, recently moved back into their house because he wants to try and save their eight-year marriage. Does a marriage that was started by infidelity and hurt by infidelity have a chance of surviving? Dr. Phil has strong advice for these parents who are fighting, lying and cheating -- all in front of their young children. Join the discussion.

 

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February 10, 2006, 8:47 am CST

are you kidding?

Quote From: lisaann88

 I think you need to slow down...your acting like he went out and had an affair and you caught him.  The replies I have read seem to think this man is some kind of terrible person, he's not at all and you, of all people, should know that. One thing I read in the replies that I found true was that men don't talk...but they're actions do. 

You said you have been pretty much happily married for twelve years I think, as you said your the one who always felt safe that your husband was loyal. Your gonna toss that all away because he wanted to look at girlie pictures. My take on the whole thing......he's a bit bored with things..think about your sex life is.....is it exciting anymore...happens to all of us so don't fret.  Seems to me...he didn't talk...your probably busy alot with 3 kids and night school etc....so he decided to find some "safe" excitement of his own.  Doesn't sound like he went to a hard core porn site..he's just looking at naked girls..........FACTS OF LIFE...Men like to see the female body naked............absorb the news....its totally okay ...your husband chose to do it in a way that was private - no humiliation for you thru friends and family....he didn't go have an affair...he just tried to spice things up by himself. He should have talked to you about this BUT MEN DON"T TALK rememeber.......... 

Try being a good friend to him and recognizing that somethings missing in his life instead of making this all about poor you. Then go and make some special time for the two of you...buy some lingerie or something that you think he might like and you might like that fits into your moral code..go as far as you can...its your husband and theres nothing dirty about a healthy sex life.....after all it was God who gave you the parts for it anyway......I think it would immature to walk away based on the facts you've presented. I also think you might have alot of fun yourself and he probably won't be interested in the girlie site anymore because the real thing is now alot more interesting.   Go girl!!! 

  

Your take is he's a bit bored?  My take is that she's right in that she trusted him & didn't doubt his loyalty only to find out that he's deceptive & keeps stuff from her.  If that isn't bad enough he is then indifferent to her pain & telling her to "get over it".  & it is true men don't talk, but their actions do!  So if a man is acting  indifferent that means he feels indifferent toward her!  That is not love & it doesn't matter what site he's gone to or what men like to see or what is missing in his life the FACTS OF LIFE here for this woman is that when he has a problemhe just does as he please and doesn't let her in on it & keeps things from her!  You want her totry to be a good friend to this?  To be a good friend you need to be treated like one!  It doesn't matter how much men like to talk or not the fact is that if there's a problem they have to communicate it and not just go & do what they want that is what a marriage is.  My husband and I don't sit down & have a good old talk every time we're talking about things we like & don't like.  If I'm out of the house and he's at home bored & is looking at something naughty that's something he's just share with me when I got home.  We became partners in life because we wanted to share our lives.   

  

If someone is deceitful then they're deceitful & it doesn't matter if he's bored or what the reason is.   Does that mean that if he has a physical affair she's suppose to wait until she finds out why in case he has a good enough reason?   I mean maybe she wasn't available and he was forced to find relief on his own?  I say bull crap.  This isn't just a matter of men liking to look at naked women.  Marriage is about being able to trust someone even when things aren't quiet right between the 2 of you.  It doesn't mean we automatically brush it off if he was bored with me because I got stale in the bedroom or I was too busy.  THAT is the Problem & then of course there's his indifference to her emotional pain.  I wouldn't trust him either.    

 
February 10, 2006, 8:58 am CST

APRIL and JON

 Obviously I'm of a different opinion than most people.  I think that April has more problems than just anorexia.  It may have started out as just anorexia but that disease turned her into a controling, unstable mess.  Just because someone has a physical illness or a mental illness does NOT give them the right to yell and scream at people, make ridiculous demands, ect...

 (Speaking from experience here, I have several severe mental problems , a behavioral disorder,  and narcolepsy one top of other physical problems.  I don't EXPECT people to put up with my bad behaviors.  Just because I'm SERIOUSLY ill it doesn't mean that I have a right to make somone else's life MISERABLE).

If I was this guy I would have REFUSED to marry her until she began treatment and in treatment played by the rules.  He would have saved himself a LOT of trouble.  He allowed this woman to lie and treat him very poorly all because he more than likely didn't want to hurt her feelings by having enough sense at the altar to say "This is isn't right, I don't want to do this."  He handled the situation very poorly, but staying in that marriage would have ruined him.  You can't be with someone when you can't trust them to do things.  I mean geting kicked out of his own home on a daily basis just because she wanted to "be alone with her eating disorder", when he's been out working all night is just WRONG.  It is SO SELFISH.  She even admitted she "loved her eating disorder" more an anything else.  So in reality she didn't have enough room in her life for him and she should have been HONEST about that.  She shouldn't be surprised that he didn't want to be married to her anymore.

It just irritates me that when some people have a disease they think it excuses them from acting badly because "they're sick" or "they're dying".   That's the WRONG attitude to have.  When I tried to kill myself my sophmore year of college (and nearly succeeded) because of severe depression I was hospitalized for a week, had I treated all the people who tried to help me the way April had treated Jon before she left I wouldn't have had ANYONE who cared.   When you use a disease to try and rationalize your inappropriate behavior people get sick of it and they say,  "Fine you're own your own". 
 
February 10, 2006, 8:59 am CST

Must be lonely in your perfect world

Quote From: lisels

When I hear you say that it isn't cheating, I beg to differ. 

  

Something is seriously wrong in my relationship if my husband needs to look at other females in order to get his jollies. Part of a relationship means being understanding that the other half may not always have time to meet your sexual desires, but they will have time later. In the mean time, remember why you find your spouse attractive, and build up the hormonal urges, so that when your spouse is available sexually for you, you can paint the town red with passion white with the purity of the relationship,and the rest of us can be green with envy at how passionately your relationship is then. 

  

On the other hand, if my life is getting so overbooked that I can't find time to be intimate with my husband at all...then I need to make a few priority changes. 

  

I truly believe what Dr. Phil has said that if it is not something that I would do in front of my spouse, than it shouldn't be done at all. Have respect for yourself, your relationship, and for others. Looking at other people simply for pleasure completely takes away from the fact that they are human beings with personalities, familes, goals and dreams.   I am rambling now, so I will let whomever it is that wants to read this absorve whatever they like from it.  It's just my opinion. 

I didn't condone what he did, and the whole point of my quote WAS that something is wrong with their realtionship. The fact is - from these facts - it could be something small and repairable. it doesn't need to become a deal breaker that you cry all night about. I was simply trying to show her that people are people and we all behave poorly at some time....her husband was on the very low end of poor behavior considering some of the stuff you see and hear.  I stand by my first quote . What goes on in peoples heads is there own business and no one should ever demand something different. As for the people in the pictures, providing that there are NO children ,obviously, ---of course they have personalities and familes etc. BUT they've put themselves out there to be looked at....its part OF their personality and doesn't take anything away from them. For whatever reason they want to be looked at. C'est La Vie.....its not a perfect world....I can't imagine living in your perfect world and still getting through it, with your strigent...lines that MUST never be crossed. 

To the original writer of the problem.......go and have some fun!!!! 

  

 
February 10, 2006, 9:00 am CST

exactly!

Quote From: powers009

Sir may I say I truly sympathize with you but have you thought about the possibility that she may not give you a chance to prove you have changed and proceed with the divorce. You are right though you do need to make changes you have children who will benefit from seeing their father start making the right decisions and show them how a man should treat women. I want to say though now would be a good time to become your wife's friend. Even if you don't get back together your children will benefit from a friendly relationship between their parents. Remember no matter what this is still their mother and anything negative against her is a negative against them too. I hope that you are able to make the changes in your life and I hope you have learned from your mistakes if you have you will succeed in your future relationships weather that be with your wife or another woman. It will defiantly improve your relationship with your children.
I hope coachsers listens here to this.  I think to truely move in a direction that is "iproved" you need to realize that things may not work out exactly the way you want them, but then you need to still act like a "friend" & accept the life that comes at you.  You don't want to turn around in 10 or more years & realize the injustice you'd done to your kids because of the way you behaved because your ex-wife wouldn't give you another chance.   To truely learn from your mistakes means making better decisions and behaving in a manner that is mature & thoughtful.  I hope you'll take the advice from this post to heart. 
 
February 10, 2006, 9:07 am CST

02/10 Last Chance

Quote From: lisels

When I hear you say that it isn't cheating, I beg to differ. 

  

Something is seriously wrong in my relationship if my husband needs to look at other females in order to get his jollies. Part of a relationship means being understanding that the other half may not always have time to meet your sexual desires, but they will have time later. In the mean time, remember why you find your spouse attractive, and build up the hormonal urges, so that when your spouse is available sexually for you, you can paint the town red with passion white with the purity of the relationship,and the rest of us can be green with envy at how passionately your relationship is then. 

  

On the other hand, if my life is getting so overbooked that I can't find time to be intimate with my husband at all...then I need to make a few priority changes. 

  

I truly believe what Dr. Phil has said that if it is not something that I would do in front of my spouse, than it shouldn't be done at all. Have respect for yourself, your relationship, and for others. Looking at other people simply for pleasure completely takes away from the fact that they are human beings with personalities, familes, goals and dreams.   I am rambling now, so I will let whomever it is that wants to read this absorve whatever they like from it.  It's just my opinion. 

Could not have said it better myself. If he thinks she doesn't give him enough time he should have the guts to step up and tell her. The biggest problem with marriages today is communication or lack there of. If I can't do it in front of my husband because I know he will feel bad about it should I do it at all. If I do isn't that selfish? When you are in a relationship with someone you should have enough respect for them to think about them in your actions. If you don't want to do this then maybe you should not be in the relationship at all. At the very least give them the courtesy to tell them before you make a decision that will affect their life as well. The big issue here is the indiscretion if there is one most of the time there is more. I stand by my previous advice though for her to get counseling and then make a decision she can live with. In the long run it is her decision and she should have all the information she needs to make it.
 
February 10, 2006, 9:11 am CST

I agree - It's cheating.

Quote From: lisels

When I hear you say that it isn't cheating, I beg to differ. 

  

Something is seriously wrong in my relationship if my husband needs to look at other females in order to get his jollies. Part of a relationship means being understanding that the other half may not always have time to meet your sexual desires, but they will have time later. In the mean time, remember why you find your spouse attractive, and build up the hormonal urges, so that when your spouse is available sexually for you, you can paint the town red with passion white with the purity of the relationship,and the rest of us can be green with envy at how passionately your relationship is then. 

  

On the other hand, if my life is getting so overbooked that I can't find time to be intimate with my husband at all...then I need to make a few priority changes. 

  

I truly believe what Dr. Phil has said that if it is not something that I would do in front of my spouse, than it shouldn't be done at all. Have respect for yourself, your relationship, and for others. Looking at other people simply for pleasure completely takes away from the fact that they are human beings with personalities, familes, goals and dreams.   I am rambling now, so I will let whomever it is that wants to read this absorve whatever they like from it.  It's just my opinion. 

I agree it's cheating as well.  If it hurts you, then it's important.  Cheating comes in many forms.  Some people believe that if it isn't actual physical contact, it's not cheating.  Excuse me, but since when are humans one-dimensional people?  Love comes in many forms - sexual, physical non-sexual affection, emotional connection, etc.  Cheating can happen in your mind, too!  Looking at someone else and thinking of them in a certain way (sexually) and being in a so-called "committed" relationship, then that is a violation to the relationship.  Being in a committed relationship involves sharing certain things with that one person only.  These things include any sexual feelings.  I believe some people don't have high morals or enough self-worth to realize that they deserve to be "the only one".  Now, for those who want to look at pics, go to strip clubs, etc.; do not be in a committed relationship unless the person you are with is perfectly happy with what you are doing and/or is just like you and does the same thing.  If one person likes to look at that stuff and the other person believes it's worng, it is not a good match.  I personally would never accept it if my husband looked at other women in that way (meaning, actively looking for it).  My husband and I have a great sex life and I'm actually the more sexual one.  And guess what?  I only think of my husband in that special way!  If there is a problem with the relationship, whether it be emotionally or physically, people need to either work it out or get out of the relationship.  If someone feels they are not getting the love they need, whether it be sexually or emotionally, then it's time to talk and take action.  But going behind a person's back and looking at porn or cheating is the coward's way!   Honesty should be appreciated.  And if someone doesn't like what you have to say - meaning it hurts you and you feel you can't live with it and/or he doesn't care, get out of the relationship!  I believe relationships should be full of honesty.  You may not always hear what you want to hear, but at least you know and can make an informed decision.  One last thought: some women allow men to make them feel as though there's something wrong with them if they want their man to only have eyes for them.  Some women are being manipulated into thinking that it's okay, that all guys look at porn, yadda yadda.  However, a healthy relationship is one in which that is not "needed".  That is my personal opinion, and if you feel otherwise and are happy with your beliefs, then that is fine.  I'm not here to tell women what they feel is wrong, just that it is okay if they are not okay with the way certain things make them feel.  A lot of men would not be okay with their woman looking at pics of naked men.  That is hypocritical.  However, if both partners like to look at porn and are okay with that and know what the other is doing, that's fine!  Personally, I don't like porn, but it's just my own personal views.  My husband looked at porn years ago way before we met before he was in a relationship with anyone.  It was a curiousity thing.  That to me is normal.  Feeling as though you "need" to look at porn your whole life, especially when you're with someone, tells me there is something lacking in the relationship.  My husband and I are happy sexually.  And if we weren't, we'd spice things up and seek counseling or end it.  Any form of cheating is not okay! 
 
February 10, 2006, 9:14 am CST

Thank You

Quote From: momakababe

and Ive read your prior posts.  I understand you're feeling desperate to undo the damage that you've done and you've got regrets etc.  I think first that you must understand that as sorry as we are sometimes we just cannot undo things.  Sometimes when we hurt someone it's just so painful that "I'm sorry" and rational speaking or thought with the person who created that pain is too much for us to bear and seems like rubbing salt into the already deep wounds.  I understand what you're saying about your wife being full of resentment and anger, but pointing out what she's doing wrong right now is not what you want to do. IMO  

  

What you want to do is print out every single post you've written here & then take them to her.  You do sound sincere in your regret & you do sound remorseful.   You want to tell her that you are so very sorry for the pain you've caused her & just plain own what you have done & the pain you've created in her life.  Do  not excuse it or tell her how she's got to give you another chance or that she owes you anything!  etc. etc.  Just humble yourelf to her that you're sorry & that you want to make it right with her.  You want her toknow that you understand her anger & pain and that you don't expect anything of her except to hear what you're saying and then you need to allow her to have what ever time she needs to receive that message from you.  If you're feeling she's feeling horrible about herself and you're partly to blame then tell her you want to do everything you can to help her feel better about herself even if that doesn't mean you'll end up back together.  If you feel that you want to put things back together tell her that.  In the words of Billy Joel "Tell her about it".  The feelings of anger & resentment will fade but that takes time & sometimes it takes a long time to recover.  If you don't want her to file for a divorce then tell her that & that you don't expect anything from her but that you're hoping to put it back together.  Tell her you've been here to the Dr. Phil web site & what others have said.  Let her read it.  Then you need to give her time & accept what ever decision she makes.  Again we cannot always undo the damage that we have done.   

  

You cannot make her want to try to make this work.  Maybe she feels she needs to put herself together on her own & maybe she just cannot do that while you're in her life because you are a symbol of pain to her.  It is very easy for these things to be created when we hurt someone & very difficult to undo or over come.  You just want to tell her what you desire and really communicate what you're feeling and how much remorese you've got for whatever it was you did.  Do not try using guilt or any pressure to make her come back etc.  Just start tocommunicate with her & continue until she is in a place where it isn't just her resentment speaking.  Even when resentment has passed she may decide that she cannot allow you the opportunity to do this again.  That would be her decision and again it has to be respected.  You cannot control or dictate what she does only what YOU do, so be careful in your actions because you don't want to lend credibilit y to her anger & resentment toward you.  Know what I mean?      

You know last night after I talked to my children on the phone, I spoke to her for a brief moment and said "I respect how you are feeling and if I were in your position I would probably feel he same way."  I feel this was a humbling experience for me.  She tells me that she wants to give me time to accept the fact that divorce is the answer and that I should prepare myself.  Why not just file now because you cant be really prepared for this.  I feel divorce is not the anwer.  She is the product of a broken home and I think she feels it is okay and our kids are going to be shuffled around for the next 10-12 years of their life.  She says nothing can change her mind about a divorce.  No one knows how their going to feel in a month or two.   Mabey I am searching for something that is not there.  I am a hopeless romantic at heart.  I love my family. I want things to workout.  But it seems I have ruined my chances..
 
February 10, 2006, 9:16 am CST

Yeah your right

Quote From: momakababe

Your take is he's a bit bored?  My take is that she's right in that she trusted him & didn't doubt his loyalty only to find out that he's deceptive & keeps stuff from her.  If that isn't bad enough he is then indifferent to her pain & telling her to "get over it".  & it is true men don't talk, but their actions do!  So if a man is acting  indifferent that means he feels indifferent toward her!  That is not love & it doesn't matter what site he's gone to or what men like to see or what is missing in his life the FACTS OF LIFE here for this woman is that when he has a problemhe just does as he please and doesn't let her in on it & keeps things from her!  You want her totry to be a good friend to this?  To be a good friend you need to be treated like one!  It doesn't matter how much men like to talk or not the fact is that if there's a problem they have to communicate it and not just go & do what they want that is what a marriage is.  My husband and I don't sit down & have a good old talk every time we're talking about things we like & don't like.  If I'm out of the house and he's at home bored & is looking at something naughty that's something he's just share with me when I got home.  We became partners in life because we wanted to share our lives.   

  

If someone is deceitful then they're deceitful & it doesn't matter if he's bored or what the reason is.   Does that mean that if he has a physical affair she's suppose to wait until she finds out why in case he has a good enough reason?   I mean maybe she wasn't available and he was forced to find relief on his own?  I say bull crap.  This isn't just a matter of men liking to look at naked women.  Marriage is about being able to trust someone even when things aren't quiet right between the 2 of you.  It doesn't mean we automatically brush it off if he was bored with me because I got stale in the bedroom or I was too busy.  THAT is the Problem & then of course there's his indifference to her emotional pain.  I wouldn't trust him either.    

Throw away twelve years of marriage....the guy is a total dirt ball....take the three children and leave...because this guy made a mistake and didn't share the fact that he looked at girlie pictures. LOOK at her response to it when she found out he did it!!!! Would you confide in someone who totally cried all night and freaked out about it. Eventually you'd learn not to. Sharing means accepting...flaws and all my dear....its great that you have a great relationship with your spouse and maybe her husband could learn from yours...but don't waste him because he isn't. You also said your spouse would share with you that he had looked at the pictures AND you wouldn't have freaked out...thats exactly why he would share with you and can share with you. Not everyone, including our writer is so lucky. I'm like you, my spouse could tell me anything, we're lucky but don't tackle this womans marraige because she hasn't got there yet.  

As for the full blown affair...your way too far ahead...HE DIDN'T DO THAT so don't plant seeds of things that haven';t happened...its not gonna help this woman heal her relationship .She asked for help and advice...sounds like she was totally in love until this one episode...think about it and remember when your giving advice...not everyone stands in the same shoes as you do.... 

 
February 10, 2006, 9:31 am CST

April is not blameless ...

She does have a life threatening illness, but the way she treated Jon is unacceptable!  How can you be mean to a person, but somehow expect good treatment in return? Doesn't work that way, not with SO, siblings, parents, friends, etc.   She needed her "mornings"? puhleez! I've never heard of this, and cannot even begin to imagine asking a husband or wife to get out of the house - outrageous!  Even if he chose to do the right thing and be supportive, still, he was not getting what he needed, and I don't think he would have even if this woman got better - she strikes me as extremely selfish(regardless of illness).
 
February 10, 2006, 9:43 am CST

actually you do condone what he did

Quote From: lisaann88

I didn't condone what he did, and the whole point of my quote WAS that something is wrong with their realtionship. The fact is - from these facts - it could be something small and repairable. it doesn't need to become a deal breaker that you cry all night about. I was simply trying to show her that people are people and we all behave poorly at some time....her husband was on the very low end of poor behavior considering some of the stuff you see and hear.  I stand by my first quote . What goes on in peoples heads is there own business and no one should ever demand something different. As for the people in the pictures, providing that there are NO children ,obviously, ---of course they have personalities and familes etc. BUT they've put themselves out there to be looked at....its part OF their personality and doesn't take anything away from them. For whatever reason they want to be looked at. C'est La Vie.....its not a perfect world....I can't imagine living in your perfect world and still getting through it, with your strigent...lines that MUST never be crossed. 

To the original writer of the problem.......go and have some fun!!!! 

  

I believe you said  

  

"Your gonna toss that all away because he wanted to look at girlie pictures. My take on the whole thing......he's a bit bored with things..think about your sex life is.....is it exciting anymore...happens to all of us so don't fret.  Seems to me...he didn't talk...your probably busy alot with 3 kids and night school etc....so he decided to find some "safe" excitement of his own.  Doesn't sound like he went to a hard core porn site..he's just looking at naked girls..........FACTS OF LIFE...Men like to see the female body naked............absorb the news....its totally okay ...your husband chose to do it in a way that was private - no humiliation for you thru friends and family....he didn't go have an affair...he just tried to spice things up by himself. He should have talked to you about this BUT MEN DON"T TALK rememeber.......... " 

  

It sounds to me like you've just jusified what he did said it wasn't that bad & was just one of the "facts of Life" and prceeded to blame this poor broken hearted woman not because her husband is lying through his teeth to her & hiding stuff but because he did this in a "way that was private?"  LOL  It sure is private when you keep it from your wife.  & no humiliation for WHO?  And why is it this woman who's throwing it all away because her her husband like to look at girlie pics?  Isn't it HIM who's throwing it all away so he can be looking at girlie pics?  Doesn't seem like enough to have his risk his wife trusting him does it?  But he did it any way didn't he?  This isn't because he's doing something that's innocent.   

  

You are condoning what he did & even excusing him lying & being deceitful & then laying all the blame on her because she's "probably busy with kids"  well maybe he should be helping with the kids instead of fooling around at that computer!  

 
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