Messages By: vabtrfly

It just so happens that my best friend is engaged to a man who indulged in the swinging lifestyle with his last wife. They were married 22+ years and were swingers for the last 5 years of that marriage. What brought an end to that marriage? Swinging. What began as a consensual agreement between married partners ended up a nightmare. Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it.  These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst.  My friends fiance opted out of the lifestyle and his x-wife chose to continue with many extra marital affairs to satisfy her addiction. The marriage ended because of this. If you asked him today, he would tell you how much he regrets his choice to swing. The definition of fantasy is described as such...

1 obsolete : HALLUCINATION
2 : FANCY ; especially : the free play of creative imagination
3 : a creation of the imaginative faculty whether expressed or merely conceived: as a : a fanciful design or invention b : a chimerical or fantastic notion c : FANTASIA 1 d : imaginative fiction featuring especially strange settings and grotesque characters -- called also fantasy fiction
4 : CAPRICE
5 : the power or process of creating especially unrealistic or improbable mental images in response to psychological need <an object of fantasy> ; also : a mental image or a series of mental images (as a daydream) so created <sexual fantasies of adolescence>

There is nothing wrong with "fantasy" and being able to share fantasies with your spouse IS healthy. However, "acting" upon it no longer qualifies it as a fantasy. I know many "non' swinging couples who are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another, and they have very meaningful and close relationships with each other. That has nothing to do with sharing one's body with strangers. It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together, and wouldn't have the need or desire to masturbate using an outsiders body. And no, this isn't from a religious stand point. It's from a purely clinical one.

As far as the children.... all of the swingers who have children and have voiced their opinions here say the same thing, "we don't discuss our sex lives with them, they have no idea of our personal life preference", etc. Children are extremely aware of what goes on inside their homes. Don't lull yourselves in to a false sense of security by thinking they could never find out. They are like little sponges soaking up everything. Children can navigate the internet better than most adults. Are you sure they don't snoop (as most kids do) through your browsing history??? Your private email??? Private pictures??? And if your children don't.... your neighbors children or your friends children most likely do. The very arguement that "non" swingers would be surprised at how many actual swingers are close by, if they simply accessed a swingers site and typed in their zip code, proves my point. Besides, just because so many are doing it, doesn't make it acceptable. And if it is so harmless and just 'sexy" fun, why do the vast majority of swingers hide what they do... from friends, co-workers, family, and yes... even their own children??? If you believe in what you do, if you believe that it's just sexy harmless fun, then you should be able to stand by your choices without fearing what other's may think.

Just my opinions and observations.

Without picking apart your post piece by piece.... (I just don't have that kind of time, sorry.)

In short... for people to engage in the swinging lifestyle, it is necessary to stretch boundaries beyond the norm of human conditioning. That's not a guess, it is fact. Often times, serious personality disorders and/or sexual addictions are at the forefront of such sexual behaviors. Once these addictions/disorders are fed, they become habit. Just like any other "junkie" people will do whatever is necessary to get their "fix." In the case I stated, it most definitely was the swinging that ended the marriage. Why? Because the mere act of swinging blurred the lines between acceptable vs. unacceptable behavior. It stretched an already overly thin boundary to it's breaking point to satisfy an addiction.

As far as the masturbation statement...

When one engages in sexual gratification with another person whom they do not have an emotional and/or strong physical connection, it quite simply is.... nothing more than the act of using someone elses body for the purposes of maturbation. There is no true intimacy with a stranger, therefore it becomes nothing short of a sexual release. Much like a teenage boy thumbing through a Playboy magazine and masturbating at the images he sees. It is a purely mechanical behavior with the end result being sexual gratification. The same may be said of people who prefer to watch their spouses engaging in sexual activities with someone else.

If you believe that you and your husband are using each other's bodies to maturbate with, then maybe you don't share as strong a bond with each other as you claim. If there is no difference in the type of sexual satisfaction/intimacy that you share with your spouse than with the strangers that you meet online or at some swingers club.... you have just proved my point.

Addressing the issue of children again... is your need for sexual pleasure so much more important than your children? Scenario: A friend of your child's stumbles upon information that you thought you covered up and hid behind locked doors. This friend decides to share said information say, at school for instance. Before you know it, your child is being ridiculed by schoolmates because of your choices. Is that fair??? I know,  right now you're thinking,"that would never happen!" Yes, it most certainly can. It most certainly has. This is probably the least of bad things that could happen.

Where my opinions are based from??? Well documented studies of sexual addiction, as well as the DSM (Diagnostics and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) The terms: sexual promiscuity/deviancy (including by not limited to multiple partners, orgies, etc.) impulsivity, obsessed with fantasies of unlimited sexual performance, etc. start to jump right off the page at you. It's all there in black and white.

I disagree with human conditioning, it may stretch boundaries beyond the norm of your social or religious conditioning

Exactly where did I say social or religious conditioning? I said human.

As a sexual being and I thank God for that, he could have made us like animals , only sexual at certain times or seasons. That is part of being human.

Having an isatiable appetite for sexual gratification is an animalistic behavior. It brings one down to an animal like state. When I say insatiable, I mean quite frankly, that your sexual appetitte can not be satisfied by your spouse which is WHY you choose the lifestyle. And for the record, there are many species of animal that mate for life, so your comparison is rudimentary at best. There are however, species of monkey that engage in sexual behaviors for anything but, procreation. Hmm....

We do not swing with anyone who is stressed to be there, why would we? We are there to have fun and sex.

Of course not. You find like minded people who are also sexually insatiable and you feed off of each other's wants.

Most of our close friends, the kind of friends that would help you bury the body type, have started within the context of swinging. We can be more open and honest with them about all that happens in our lives than we can be with "vanilla" friends, they are a lot less judgmental.

So what you're saying is that swingers basically have no boundaries??? Isn't that what I said???

"Help you hide the body types" as opposed to doing the right thing? How could other swingers be judgmental? They are afterall, engaged in the same behaviors as you, correct???

Go to any "vanilla" social event and watch the reaction to a sexy lady entering the room, some folks will almost shun her, others will almost drool, neither would happen at a swingers event. She would be allowed to be sexy and who she is.

This is a highly unlikely scenario for many reasons. Swingers are not lacking in jealousy, envy, or haughtiness. "Vanilla" folks don't have a market on those emotions. I have interviewed hundreds of people in the lifestyle (for a college thesis on human sexuality) and from what I've been told there is an enormous amount of jealousy, pettiness, envy, and separatism based on outward appearances. I mean think about it... would anyones real sexual fantasy involve a rotund, unattractive woman? Or a short, balding, unattractive man? I doubt it based on my research. As a matter of fact, I found that most swingers are either.... middle aged and less than average in appearance or young and totally lacking in maturity and experience. They often times engage in sex with people who they see as below themselves (whether that be physically, intellectually, or fianancially.) This from the horses mouth.

Vanilla is a term in the swing world to describe non-swingers and I won't go into what "pistachio" means LOL

Don't you mean un-evolved? It seems to me that there is a fair amount of judgment from your side as well.