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Messages By: charlie75
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January 8, 2006, 10:59 am PST
 Quote From: linda254 Mine is one. She has been diagnosed as paranoid schizophenic, bi-polar. She plays the devote Christian, but does not act Christian-like. My mother is 80 and has been saying that she is ill for 45 years now. Whether true or not, she uses her diagnosis to be a the answer to her selfishness, manipulation, laziness and uncontrolled spending of money. She has had 4 toilets in her house in 20 years, 3 a/c heating units in 20 years. She eats unendingly and abuses laxatives, which cause her to be ill and then complains about being ill constantly. I have told her that anyone as sick as she says she is would have died already.
You are not alone, but you have to get a life in which she is completely absent. I am serious about this. You must not let her know your phone number, not allow her to contact you. You must take control of when you see her and for how long. I hope that you do not live with her, you must have a life of your own where no one knows her or she does not influence anyone in your circle of friends. As my mother does, she probably tells lies about how badly you treat her and lies about other things in her life. By having a life separate from hers, you can rid yourself of the emotional damage she has created. When you find yourself thinking about it, tell yourself to stop it and think of something else. Sorry to others that have written in regards to my situation and I have not yet replied. I have been at work and not online before or after. One reply suggested that I write to my mother a genuine letter expressing myself whole heartedly. It worked for her. I don't think that she understands what I am talking about. My mothers condition does not allow for communication. I have in my niavity written letters upon letters and it didn't pan out like her reconcillation with her mother. When you have a mom that is a narcissist, it is a totally different story. My mother retaliated with accusing me of what I shared with her. She further lied, involved others with her lies, started a scandle, manipulated the entire situation and cut me out of her life. She got my father and brother to ostrisize me as well for they are caught in her web and live under the same roof as her. It is a very complex situation. Her is an example. My last fight with my mother was because she called me a slut that deserved to be raped. When I wrote her a letter regarding that, she then called up her friends and pastors and told them that I took her grandchildren from her and wouldn't allow her to see them. No such thing had happened. No conversations regarding my daughters happened. She had a whole slew of people tending to her broken heart feeding her disease for attention and manipulation. She not only refuses to apoligize, but denies any conversation with me unless I chose to pretend none of it happened and play into her new lies. It is so hard to explain this to people that do not have experiance with this. Another reply was talking about a girl that was really defensive when accused of being a lier and is now in a pshyc ward etc etc. This too is different with a Narcissist. My Narcissistic Mother does not get defensive. Anything she is accused of is regurgitated upon the accuser. My Narcissistic Mother holds herself on a higher plateau and only accuses those of what they accuse her of. She talks with a prophetic tone and forwarns the accuser of their faults and puts them beneath her. As though she is all knowing and we are but pawns in denial of the truths she sees. She is very snubby and cold in her responses. It is difficult to explain. Just know that my Narcissistic Mother, in her mind, is never wrong, but instead being wronged and not honored with the praise and respect she demands to receive. She believes her own fantasies that she creates. Someone else mentioned that they were real sorry to hear about my mother taking to court for grandparent rights. This she has threatened to me, but never has done it to me. She did this to my older sister and yes, she won! Can you believe that? My mother is good at what she does. My sister is court ordered to give her children to my mother every 3rd saturday of the month. It is truely sick what she can accomplish. This is even worse. My mom runs a dayhome. Yeah, believe that! She watches a neighbours children. I have been there and wittnessed her abusiveness upon her kids. The sad thing is that there is little I can do, since the mother does not believe me and feeds right into the palm of my mother's hand by praising how great of a caregiver she is. I have seen my mother put her child into tears within seconds then inforce discipline upon her. Sick I tell you, sick! To the person that I've qouted above, thank you.... you get it! You advice about getting as far from her as possible is a lesson I have recently learned. This is what has encouraged me to start talking about it. Now that I have set myself physically away from her. I do not live with her. I have many times though due to circumstances. I have actually, just months ago, blocked her number to keep her from calling here which she did obsessivley. Not to talk to me, but to my children. She would leave messages upon messages that just made me cringe. I am just newly taking the steps to seperating myself from her. It is hard though. I mean, for example christmas. My father wanted to see my girls. He said that he would be there the whole time. I let my girls go over. I am now thinking that this is not wise to continue. He doesn't have the back bone or courage to stand up to her and therefore.... he is not one to be trusted to protect my children from her. I mean, he never protected me. Thank you so much for affirming that I need to let her go completely. Lately, it is like mourning the loss of family. Not that it was much of one to begin with. I have been trying to come to terms with the choice to let them all go and sevre all communication with all of them for the sake of sanity and protecting my daughters. Again, thanks. Charlie |
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January 8, 2006, 10:40 pm PST
Quote From: linda254 Charlie, I am the one whose the mother is paranoid schizophrenic. I used to be hurt and embarrassed by mother, but living 400 miles away helps me find other things about which to think. When your children are older they will understand how cruel she is and not want to be around her. I know that is how my nieces and nephews are with my mother. My sister and I were that way with her mother (a mean one she was, she didn't speak English so we don't know what she would say to other people). Just make sure they have good experience with your mother and tell you if anything bad is said or happens (evidence). As for the daycare, you can report any abuse to social services. Social Services have to look into any abuse report. Just hope that she doesn't report you for abuse first. You talk about your dad. Mine died in 1989. God took him because God knew my dad had taken enough crap. Dad was really a good, friendly person. There are 4 kids in my family and when I was a kid, my parents never slept in the same bed. Dad slept in the living room. I was in shock when I learned from where babies came. She acts as if we were are immaculately conceived. My dad never divorced (I asked him why he never divorced her--she was always mean to him and fought with him.) because he would lose everything for which he worked. Dad spent most of his free time playing cards with his buddies; he called it his second income. He never knew that she beat my sister and I senselessly--we never told him. She was pregnant with my sister when they married. Now that he is dead, she has been spending his money wrecklessly and always says mean things about him. Do whatever you can to have a life separate from hers. If that means getting a new phone number, do it. I have a cell phone and have to pay for incoming calls--that is my excuse not to get phone calls from her. I have told her that I have to pay for incoming calls, so she doesn't call me. When I call her, she starts to whine about how sick she is, so I cut it short, by telling her I don't have much time to talk. I am sure that most people don't think your mother is an honest person. Liars usually get caught lying and I'll bet most people feel sorry for you--although that is not good either. Those people just don't want to get involved. I am worried about you because I think you are feeling sorry for yourself. You have to get away from her negativity. You are not the only person with a wacky mother, even though you think you are. You can email me at l_m_dobrin@hotmail.com or think about coming for a visit to the big city. Looking forward to traveling or doing something always cheers me. I look forward to hearing from a cheery charlie. Let me know. I never really posed the question until I got to the end of your post to me. Hmmm... At first I thought that I would just ask anyone on the boards how they felt about the uncanny similairities between the Jezebel Spirit and Narcissm, but so much more has developed from that. Through simply trying to clarify some things, it seems that I have come off as sulking or just wanting to vent my story. I didn't think that I was, but now I'm wondering how honest I'm being with myself. I don't want to be that person that I've portrayed because really I am doing pretty good. Posts are difficult to convey mood and I suppose I have left out clarifying mine. I admit that I am in a transitional phase where I am taking my first giant step away from my Mother and her web, but talking about it on forums, perhaps isn't the way to go about expressing the little emotional extra's. Besides, that isn't what this thread is about anyhow. My initial question was never answered and now we are all just conversating about bad upbringings. Woops, wrong thread, lol! I don't want to be feeling sorry for myself and have had to sit down and really think that one over. It is that little bit of child like hope for reconcilliation (that will never happen) and yearning to hear I'm sorry and I love you (which will never happen) that I find myself having a tough time letting go of. That is the mourning part that I was referring to before. Am I feeling sorry for myself? Truthfully, I am still asking myself if that is what I am really doing here on the boards. I will have to sleep on it. You are right by the way, I must be pretty arrogant to pressume, even subconsciencely, that I am the only child on this earth with a narcissistic parent. Just never met one before until now. It's not just a bad upbringing and an abusive relationship... it is a horrific experiance.... and I'm not the only one to have had it. Thanks for your complete honesty. I like that in a person. You really don't need to worry about me. I have a wonderful husband and his family is very supportive and loving. No crazy people on his side. I guess it would have helped to have thrown that in there with the rest of my posts. I really am okay and living my life. I am just learning now to deal with my past. It's like, once you take the first step out of the narcissist's web, it is truely the first time that you can begin to deal with the pains there were and work thru them. I don't want to burry them and find out later they are still there. Anyhow, I'm babbling now..... I'm a happy girl with friends and family (inlaws) that I love! Thanks for the heart! God Bless, Charlie PS If anything, one great thing was accomplished here on these boards for me over the last few days... It has been affirmed for me that there really are other people out there who know what being raised by a Jezebel Spirit/Narcissistic Parent is like. They surely do exist and they have gotten through it- like yourself. I know I can do it too, yet it was nice to read others have as well. |
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January 9, 2006, 3:01 pm PST
My husband once told me that men and woman can not be just friends. He further said that there is always a silver linning wether it is from the male, female or both. He feels that in a relationship, there is no room for dabbling with opposite sex friendships. I tend to agree with him. We have couple friendships and I've gone out with his single guy friends, but with my husband present. I was the tag along and had great times being so. I trust him fully and visa versa and we have never fought on this subject. I don't keep in touch with my ex's and neither does he. Maybe we stick to the safe side of things... who knows... to each their own I guess. I'm curious to hear what Dr. Phil has to say on the subject. |
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January 10, 2006, 6:03 pm PST
I am 1/4 aboriginal (grandfather was Great Cheif Sitting Bull), little bit of english, irish and ukrainian. My husband is Irish and scottish. We both have dark hair and hazel eyes. We have 2 daughters, both with bright big blue eyes. One daughter has light brown hair and the other strawberry blonde. No, not the mail man, lol, my father is blonde blue eyed and my husband's mother is the same. My eldest is six and in first grade. She is one of two white appearing children in her class. She is extremely pale in skin tone with freckles across her nose. My daughter doesn't even see color in her class. Though she is a minority herself with her native roots or from the flip side appearing to be one of the only two white kids in her class, she has no idea that her friends are, for the most part, asian and east indian. I really like that. All she knows is about their cultures from the relationships that she has formed. She's learned about the differences in languages as well. I love this atmosphere and the beauty in it~ seeing no colour at all. Isn't that great? It is! Children are born into this world with the best innocence and it is we adults that have the responsiblitiy not to poison it. |
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January 13, 2006, 7:52 pm PST
Quote From: rgw964 Charlie, I saw the show and want to congratulate you for the transformation. It is like you have been born again. I hope your relationship with your daughter and granddaughter continues to grow strong. I am praying for you. I think in the coming years you may become an activist for racial equity in peoples minds. I am routing for you.
Rujon
P.S. My offer for that Deep Sea fishing trip is still on.
Rujon, Unfortunately, I missed the show. Was there a guest by the name of Charlie on there? Or is there another member named Charlie? I don't think you were talking to me, but if you were, I am soooooooooooo lost. Charlie |
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January 13, 2006, 7:54 pm PST
Quote From: rgw964 Charlie, I saw the show and want to congratulate you for the transformation. It is like you have been born again. I hope your relationship with your daughter and granddaughter continues to grow strong. I am praying for you. I think in the coming years you may become an activist for racial equity in peoples minds. I am routing for you.
Rujon
P.S. My offer for that Deep Sea fishing trip is still on.
Rujon, Nevermind, I just clued in. I'm slow this evening, haha! Have a good laugh at me, I did! Charlie (the one that wasn't on the show) |
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May 15, 2006, 4:21 pm PDT
Quote From: scareycrow Are you all kiddin me. I think the husband and wife team was just that 'TEAM'. I believe somethings happened but I also believe they lied to. I think the wife was told to speak. He (HUBBY) didn't want to look like the mean man in front of Dr. Phil and you could read the wifes eyes. She would look @ him like O I HOPE I SAID THAT RIGHT. SHE DIDN'T CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING. SHE SEEMED TO HAVE FORCEFUL TEARS. EVEN SPEAKING OF THE 'RAPE' SHE DIDN'T GET TORE UP. I think she was a brat as a teenager and did alot of things she regrets. And mommy didn't put up w/ it she said CYA ... LOOK AT THE EYES . PLAY IT BACK READ THERE FACES. COME ON PEOPLE. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS MOM IS DOING ALL THIS BY HERSELF. I DIDN'T SEE THE DAUGHTER SITTING THERE CRYING LIKE HER. THEY BOTH MADE ME SICK. DR. PHIL IS RIGHT LIFE IS SHORT. MAKE AMENDS. IT'S FAMILY. I SAY IT EVERYDAY TO MY OWN FAMILY. AND HE'S RIGHT. DON'T SAY WHAT YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO SAY LOOKING OVER THE CASKET CRYING NO ONE CAN HEAR YA THEN IT'S JUST TO LATE.
I am personally appaulled with your post. Your entire rant was judgemental and hurtful I'm sure to anyone with a similiar experiance. If I were to assume anything, taking into account my own familiar past that runs along side the daughters, she was looking to her husband to see continual support in his eyes. She is dealing with severe betrayal and courageously infront of the world speaking up about some tender issues that were NEVER supported before.
Giving value to the daughters feelings on her rape as a teen by measuring her tears as an adult infront of an audience and in a short session with Dr.Phil is not only unfair, but revealing of a disgusting character in yourself.
If she was a brat as a teen, I can completely understand the elements that supported that behavior. I do not think that it reflects her as a bad human being. In fact, I see her as a continuing survivor each year that has and continues to pass since her rape.
What you obviously don't get, based on your post, is that she has been retruamatized everytime her mother denied her rape by accepting communications with her rapist and as a young girl inviting him over to their home and family functions. If you ask any shrink or rape victim, it isn't the actual rape that is the most damaging, but how it plays out afterwards.
I am trying so hard to keep on topic and be polite with replying to your post. I must admit that it is very difficult. Your words were extremely toxic and if the daughter reads it, I want her to know that I understand exactly what she is going through and the layers that weren't even touched on to tell the whole story. I want her to know that I'm praying for her and her husband for healing. I want her to know that toxic words in posts should just roll off her back because they obviously have absolutely no concept of what she's gone through over the years and how the distructive and manipulative relationship with her mother has burrowed its way into any avenue of her life that her mother could possibly get away with.
She wasn't up there to convince you of anything. Her tears were hers to own and they probably weren't even over the rape itself, but rather the betrayal afterwards. You really need to understand a whole lot more about rape victims before you bash them publically under an alias. Her appearing torn up to you or not, does not make or break the fact it happened and was truamatic and that her mother personally played a crutial part in the process and it was damaging to her as a child.
I really hope that in the future you keep your toxic statements to yourself and think about the people that you could be hurting by your words. |
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May 15, 2006, 5:38 pm PDT
Quote From: rjfrench I agree all parties involved have played a role in the troubles tearing this relationship apart- but as the daughter acknowledged that she had allowed things to get to the point they are at and the son-in-law acknowledged that he might have antagonized- the mother needs to take some ownership as well. "I didn't feed her the peanut butter, Dan did." "I don't send him Christmas cards, he sends them to me" and other excuses made sounded awfully childish.. As the mother of two young girls you had better believe that if ANYONE ever raped one of my children-family or not- they would be lucky if calling the cops was all I did to them- and there's a thing called "return to sender" and "call rejection" that would get the point accross nicely in the situation of still having contact with the rapist. Thank God for parents like you! Wish you had been one of my parents and I'm sure the daughter in the show does too! I don't know how many times I've heard grounded people state what you have, but each time is like the first time and does something special inside of me. Say it again if you please, I know I will appreciate it as a rape victim myself at the age of 15 and whose parents shook his hand, forgave him, then attended his wedding. Oh please, say it again!!!!!!!!! |
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May 15, 2006, 5:58 pm PDT
Quote From: srndpty333 THIS MAN IS IN A POWER STRUGGLE AND IS CLEARLY BRAINWASHING HIS WIFE...THE MOTHER SAT AND LISTENED TO DR. PHIL EXPLAIN THEIR SIDE AND THE DAUGHTER LISTENED TO DR. PHIL EXPLAIN THE MOTHER'S SIDE BUT OHHHHH WHEN IT WAS THE HUSBAND'S TURN TO LISTEN...NO WAY....HE JUST KEPT BUTTING IN WITH HIS "YEAH BUTS" ...HE HAS TO BE RIGHT...AND THAT IS THE ONLY REASON HE CAME ON THE SHOW...TO DEMONIZE THAT POOR GRANDMOTHER...THE BOND BETWEEN A MOTHER AND A DAUGHTER IS SACRED AND IS THE STRONGEST HUMAN BOND... ANY REAL MAN WOULD NOT BE THREATENED BY THAT...HE WAS SOOOO DISAPPOINTED THAT DR. PHIL SAW HER PAIN THAT HE WAS CROSS EYED....HE WANTED HER TO BE PORTRAYED AS THE VILLIAN....GROW UP AND EMBRACE YOUR WIFE'S NEED TO HEAL HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER...LIKE DR. PHIL SAID...ONLY PEOPLE WE DEEPLY DEEPLY LOVE CAN HURT US ON THAT LEVEL AND THOSE TWO WOMEN CLEARLY HAVE A DEEP LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER OR THEY WOULDN'T BE HURTING SO BADLY...THE HUSBANDS NOT HURTING HE JUST WANTS TO BE RIGHT...GET A HOBBY AND LET YOUR WIFE, MOTHER IN LAW AND DAUGHTER NURTURE EACH OTHER AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP...THEY ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER...
“He that would the daughter win, Must with the mother first begin”
I can see that you have strong feelings about the husband and that you chose to voice it with replying to my post. I chose not to form much of an opinion on the husband once I heard about the mother-daughter's past and focused the majority of my connection in relation to that.
Your right that a mother-daughter bond is strong. My mother did the same to me in regards to rape on the cusp of age 15/16. Currently I do not talk with my mother at all, but it still affects me because of that bond.
The daughter made it clear though that she stands with her husband and in that, it becomes a family issue, especially in regards to their little girl. There is a whole lot of healing to dive into before the mother-daughter relationship can be a healthy one. The bond itself is not enough sadly, believe me it's not.
In reading many other posts about the outrage of how the mother dealt with the rape, it isn't too far fetched to say that the husband probably feels the same way and has no respect for her mother. Honestly, can't blame him. It's a tough triangle.
Her mom needs to earn her daughters trust back and her daughter needs to give her mom that opportunity. Unless Dr. Phil does an update, we will never know how sincere anyone really was on getting down and dirty and focusing on the layers that got them where they are today.
Perhaps if they are successful with the aid of counsel, the husband will ease up a bit in time and have less reason to feel so protective. I have a hunch that the daughter likes the protectiveness that her husband portrays as it is what she missed out on with her mother's reaction to the rape years ago. Maybe on a less obvious level he is encouraged to take that role in this dynamic.
He obviously loves his wife, you could see it in the fury he displayed over what happened to her and how the mother dealt with it. Especially now that he is a father with a daughter, his emotions, I'm sure, are fueled more strongly on the subject.
Only a certain type of mind state can justify sweeping a rape of a child under the carpet. The damage that does to a child is monsterous. This will be an intense journey of healing for the mother-daughter as denial obviously played a massive role for her mother. Her mom is going to have to get real in order to have a blossoming relationship with her daughter.
Thanks for your thoughts. We just don't totally agree I guess. Maybe because I've been in the daughters shoes. |
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May 15, 2006, 6:35 pm PDT
Quote From: dllitefl Discard them as easily as anyone else? Anyone else was not in that delivery room giving birth. Anyone else didn't spend years raising and housing and feeding that child that is now a woman and trying to forget where she came from. And you talking about she has no benefits or she trying to create some benefits she's not entitled to? She gave the benefit of life in the first place and deserves....no commands a little bit of respect. I was taught you don't ever talk to or treat your mother like that. You might humor your mother by letting any gripes or complaints go in one ear and out the next, but you keep your mouth shut and always show your respect. People put up with way too much crap from their parents? You obviously don't have a good relationship with your parents because that should have never come out of your mouth or you must be a son-in-law dealing with issues such as these. I don't even have any kids, but I am married and you let my husband even think of talking to my mom like that and I will sign the divorce papers that day. And I put that on everything I love. And believe you me, I love my husband, but even if years down the road we, for some god forsaken reason don't make it, she will always be my mother, no matter what she is doing or is not doing to make my life miserable. And wnen he's gone she will still be here being my mother, my blood. You people have your priorities mixed up. Yeah you're right, he may not have a great relationship with his parents as you obviously do. BUT, I wouldn't cast him off to the side along with his post just for the sake of it rubbing your experiances in life with your mother the wrong way.
If your mother stood by while you got raped and did nothing but keep you in complete denail and continually encourage you to just move on, like it was a scrape on the knee, etc etc... you may not have such fond feelings for your mother.
You are very fortunate to have a great mom and a great relationship with her to go along with it. I think though, his point was that giving birth doesn't grant someone the right to be inhumane. Blood relation even, doesn't give someone the right to treat someone else poorly or abusive or neglective. I agree with him when it comes to that. There is a guilt inflicted mandatory tone in your views when it is applied to those of us who have had truamatic upbringings. In saying that, had my mother been a healthy and stable human being, I may respect her today, but I don't and I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, I have been counselled to remove her from my life entirely.
Everyone's apple pie isn't as sweet as yours. No sarcasm in that. Just simply put. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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