Message Boards
Messages By: pathux
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October 19, 2005, 8:30 am PDT
 Quote From: openmind1
Of course you can be gay and Christian! Perhaps not a fundamentalist bible Christian like a conservative evangelical, Pentecostal, JW, SDA. Southern Baptists or Mormon but they are NOT the ONLY Christian organisations in America. Why are some people on this board assuming they speak for Jesus and for ALL Christians? You don't! There are MANY Christian organisations that welcome gay people and treat them with respect and allow them to worship and participate free from harassment and persecution. They don’t hide behind, “Love the sinner hate the sin” nonsense either. Some Christian groups that welcome gay people are: Church of the Brethren, Church Women United, Dignity/USA , Episcopal Church , Evangelical Lutheran Church in America , The Interfaith Alliance , National Council of the Churches of Christ USA National Council of Jewish Women , North Georgia United Methodist Conference, Presbyterian Church (USA) , Unitarian Universalist Association , United Church of Christ , United Methodist Church , Young Women’s Christian Association and the Quakers. These religious organisations accept what modern science and over 50 years of research says on homosexuality. They do not preach that gay people are perverted or any more sinful than anyone else. They do not support ex-gay programmes! They recently joined with the American Psychological Association and more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, to make a statement denouncing it as psychological fraudery and abuse. Do some Christians here know where the idea for conversion camps for gay people first originated? NAZI GERMANY. Go research it. Is that what followers of Christ want to get involved in? Fraudulent threatments that damage people?
I know there are some fundamentalist Christians on this board who take Leviticus and Paul’s letters to the Romans and Corithians 2000 years ago as LAW, demanding slavish obedience to them. They act like Jesus never came and set us free of laws and traditions and as if Paul IS Christ himself when he is nothing more than a human servant and a sinner no greater than you or me. See Romans 7: 17-25. His letters are no more than his feelings, experiences and advice to a specific people at a specific time in history. If we are to follow his personal letters to early churches as LAWS then we deny Christ. In addition, Paul said, in Romans 14:5 “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” In other words, USE YOUR BRAIN and THINK FOR YOURSELF.
How can you be a Christian and when you worship the bible as the final authority and not Christ. It is not the bible that is GOD's WORD. Jesus is God's WORD. The bible is a collection of Jewish law, geneologies, history, poetry, gospels and letters put together by the Roman Catholic Church and cannonized as scripture around 369AD. It is a tool to be used with discernment and in the RIGHT context. All the bible does is serve as a spiritual guide that points the way to Christ. JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD. To worship ANY OTHER THING as the word of God is idolatry. Only Jesus is "The word of God made human (flesh)" (not words) in John 1:14. The ONLY figure ANY Christian needs to follow is Christ. And what did Christ say when people asked him “Who are the ones who will be with you in heaven?” or ‘Who will get eternal life?” See Luke 10:25-37. What is the ONE commandment Christ ever demanded we follow? See: Matthew 7:12. Christ said this commandment fulfills the ENTIRE LAW and PROPHETS.
These bible worshipers think by idolizing the bible as God word instead of following CHRIST as GOD's WORD, they can predict God’s mind on EVERYTHING and use the bible to judge others. They can EARN salvation and see themselves as righteous. They do not realize the danger they put themselves in. Why? If you judge by the Old law, so will you be judged by God that is what Jesus Christ said in Matt 7:1-2. The truth is NOBODY can follow the entire bible perfectly. Yet, these sects ask their followers to follow bible laws literally or according to THEIR interpretation in order to prove they are Christians. Folks this is called fundamentalism or extremism. They are making a mockery of the FREE GIFT of God’s unconditional love. Remember! Jesus came to liberate people from hopeless bondage to legalistic judgmental abusive religion. Jesus IGNORED religious laws that did not show human consideration for the greater good and he asked his followers to do the same. That is why the Pharisees hated him. See: Mark 2:23-28 and Mark 3: 1-7.
Should we Christina place ANY OTHER burdens or rules on others other than the commandments Jesus gave? NO. Jesus warned some would do so in Matthew 23:4 and they are nothing but blind guides who put religion over humanity. Bottom line, if we are to be imitators of Christ, we are to experience freedom. Jesus said, “My yoke is light.” in Mathew 11:28-30. So being a Christian should never a burden. It should be a JOY! It should be freedom for the heart and soul, refreshing the spirit. If you are gay and in a sect that is causing you to experience self-hatred, suicidal thoughts, rejection, isolation, etc. then you are not in a religious sect that is following Christ but their OWN fundamentalist agenda. They are Pharasees! Remember Jesus said, “The way they treat the lest of my brothers is the way they treat me.” My gay brothers and sisters in Christ, you are loved by fellow Christians like myself and there is a place for you in God’s heaven where Jesus said there are MANY mansions. ONLY GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART! Do not listen to those who would appoint themselves masters over YOUR faith; just remember your only master is Christ.
God Bless!.
I have studied this issue for a while now, and have read books like Mel White's "Stranger at the Gate". I should mention that I don't know any gay people that I am aware of. I am a straight ,white, female. I am liberal in politics, but also a born-again Christian. As you can imagine, I don't fit the mold of most conservative churches. In fact I am "churchless" at the moment. Mostly because I can't afford the gas to drive to the one I do find some common ground with. Curse the red states! I encourage you to keep listening to Jesus. And look for an open and affirming church. There are more all the time. Find fellowship online if nothing else. Google Micah Royal. He has a GLBT ministry. I believe that God will bring in many new believers from the GLBT community. It may be the next big move of God. Pat |
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October 19, 2005, 8:37 am PDT
Quote From: gcnjustin Hi everyone! This is Justin from the show. (I was the guy with the shaved head who said it is okay to be gay and Christian and that ex-gay ministries don't work.) This wasn't mentioned on the show, but I'm also the executive director of an organization called GayChristian.Net, which is a national nonprofit organization for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered Christians.I'm happy to respond to any questions about my position on the issues and my ministry; you can also learn more about us on our website, which is linked right here from the Dr. Phil homepage. Read my reply to onenmind1. In addition, I want to thank you for your courage to say what you have on the show. I will visit your site. In my reading I have found that some do indeed learn to live a "straight" lifestyle. On the other hand, many who thought they had changed have found that they really did not. Since we know that sexual preference is on a continuum, perhaps some "successful" cases were somewhere in the middle of the range. In other words, both sides have a point, but are arguing when maybe they just misrepresent the issue, if only because they omit the whole picture. Pat |
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January 5, 2006, 9:07 am PST
Quote From: laurie119 Regardless of one's faith or lack thereof, whether you believe in them or not, curses do exist. Just because one doesn't believe in the existence of a spiritual realm does not mean it does not exist. I am not sure if these people are cursed or there is a generational curse upon them and their families but what is happening to them is something they should consider very carefully. May be, it is God trying to get their attention to wake them up or help them to wake others up. The Word of God is LOADED with information on curses, unclean spirits, evil spirits, and how to deal with them, get rid of them, how they came to be, and how we can cause them to come upon ourselves. My suggestion to all the people who were on the show whether you believe in God or not is that if you truly want to get rid of what is happening or even just want some sort of understanding regarding what is happening, I suggest you find a good Bible, (and it doesn't have to be the King James Version, there are plenty of versions out there that are completely understandable that you can read; I suggest the NIV or NKJV) look in the very back of it in the concordance and look up the words, curses, spirits, mediums, etc.... you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I like this answer, as well as a couple of others. If God is for us, who can be against us? Jesus came to not only save us but to give us power to live. The Holy Spirit is oh so much stronger than anything the devil can throw at us. If we believe in Jesus, he gives us the Holy Spirit. The Bible says that greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. There is no magic or formula or ritual. Just bring yourself to Jesus in prayer. All that is required is faith. Then read a Bible (preferably the New Testament first; the gospel of John, and the book of Acts, and then Galatians). I have some experience with this, and it is not as bad as people try to make it. Jesus merely spoke a word and people were delivered. There is protection from evil when one believes. Give it a chance. God is first of all love. There is power in the name of Jesus. Then, also do the things Dr. Phil suggested. He is steering you folks right, without stepping out of his role as counselor. If he did decide to preach, I would listen to him then too. He seems like a believer to me. |
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