Messages By: kimikomine

Hi. Once you approve of something that is done as a team, you are saying it is ok to do it solo. I would not expect my husband to only look at porn when he's with me...unless, of course that is one of your kinkos. Know what I mean? But since you are open to porn, open minded, and logical, you can't expect him to want it everytime you do, and visa versa. Finding images and saved  pics? Porn? Strip clubs? Hookers? Its all the same yet it is so nicely packed into a little box with a bow and a card that reads "use at your own discretion. May contain harmful products". But who is to say what is harmful once the boundaries become enmeshed and variable. 

Life is not black and white all the time. There is also the greys. It is It's more important to know what it is that you want and need and go out and get it. I think a person has more control over the other when they actually condone something they are against. It is passive-aggressive and it's a game that we/you play all by ourselves and use other people to act it out. Guys may say porn use is equivalent to looking at a shiny sport car, chicken wings with a beer, a sexy babe.....but when a person makes a habit out of eating chicken wings, or going out of their way to see that new porche, they are in fact saying, they would rather look at that then you. And that is reality. The facts. And as a woman, I can tell you, if you want to impress a woman with sexual appeal, don't bring up porn, but bring up how beautiful she is. I'll bet the second choice will bring you much better results! It's not a game. We just don't like to be used by the people we care about. A man may not need the psychological pull to have sex, a woman really doesn't either, but it makes it so much better when it is. I am not saying that people that look at porn are feelingless. But I would definately say it puts your mind into a different category, whether it's at the time of viewing, or after. I am not repulsed by porn or what the actions of the people are in porn, but after a while, just looking and not getting can have major repurcussions on our psyches. We are made for touch, without it we die. But touch can also kill, just like heroine. You need to put porn where it belongs. 

No. Seriously. I wasn't really directing it anyone in particular. :) But now that you ask for clarification. I am not implying that you are using your wife and I think I understand what kind of relationship you two have together.It  does seem you are both involved in each others lives, just not enmeshed and sexual pleasures are pretty independant. And as long as you really love one another and are not just settling because you don't want to venture out there in the world to find someone else, it is completely understandable that it works. But I just really wonder if you are happy with the amount of times you do have sex with her and is she really ok with your porn use or is she just saying that because she knows you are not going to stop. She may be doing exactly what I am doing......accepting it as part of who you/we are and giving sex once in a while so as to keep the bond alive, but not depending on it as a means of true connectedness. I don't mean to sound harsh because I know words on a screen don't have the same tone as if they were said in person but I am truly miserable with the fact that we don't have the intimacy that I thought we would have but the damage has already been done. Do I leave? No. Why should I? I can get my sexual needs met just as much as he can. I don't need him and he don't need me, it's obvious. A guy looking at porn might not have anything to do with how he feels about his woman, but it sure as heck has a big impact on how a woman feels about a guy. That is just the way it is. If I fell completely in love with someone, head over heels, sex was awsome, affection and respect was all there.....and he started looking at porn.....my thoughts would change. It has  nothing to do with how I feel about him, but how I feel about knowing that he is lusting after other woman. Its just not productive to a good love life.  

I must admit, sometimes, very very rarely, do I think about what it would be like to have two or three of the finest men that I know and just have it out with them sexually. I have had some awsome lovers in my day and to have them all together, in one room, would be really cool. But this is a fantasy of mine. I don't think about when I am with my husband (which is so rare I don't even feel qualified to say that!) but it would be so wrong to be thinking of those guys when I am making love to him. The only reason I would be thinking that, would be if I was uh-hum, not having such a good time and needed something to entertain me. But sometimes, fleeting thoughts have crossed my mind during lovemaking and it was never a bad experience. I think what happens with porn use/abuse is that after a while it is difficult to be present and almost like in a hypnosis, when a trigger occurs, the mind resorts back to the last impressionable image, almost like a photo flash. We may be able to fool others, but we cannot fool ourselves, or our brains, I believe this is called denial. And denial is not such a bad thing at times. But I just don't know how visualizing a stranger or even the boy next door during lovemaking with my husband is going to be good for us. The reason so many people want to keep coming back for sex with someone is because it was a good experience and they both walked away feeling safer, loved, desired, and needed. If I am thinking of my three guys, should my husband feel safer, loved, desired when it was the three guys I was desiring. The only time porn gets out of control, is when it is out of control. No one needs to tell anyone else when this is happening. The user knows what is going on but it is all too easy to flip on a vid or go on line. It's a lot more complicated to approach someone, be an active participant in turning them on, and spending time loving them. To some this is work but it is work only to that same person that is conditioned to believe sex is raw, feelingless, and quick.....ie....a porn users mind.  There are those that use porn because they are not able to get a person or they don't want to have superficial relationships for sex only, so they use it as a sexual release, and this is the part that I find very sad. And this is what I see when I think of my husband looking at porn. 

After coming here for oh so long.....I am coming to understand why I had such a hard time with this. In the beginning when I was going nuts with discovering how much my husband liked porn and sexual inuendos, I was not walking on steady ground. I didn't know how vulnerable I was and how much of a whiplash affect it was having on me. I was reacting to his behaviors and the way I reacted was not good because it lead me to cheating on him and now I know that that was not the way to go about it. But being the strong headed person that I am, some call me a brat, I rebelled. Something I do very well under stress. If I was stronger, less attached to how he felt about me, I would have been able to stand my ground and walk. But I stayed because I questioned everything about my sexuality, my insecurities, my weaknesses. And it helped me to understand and love myself more because  now I feel stronger and more grounded and less vulnerable. I am glad about this. But now, I lost my feelings for him and now my feelings are that of a guy that is nice, takes care of me financially, and has a weak spot for porn. So, this might clump in most male categories? In understanding him maybe I can love him. I am getting exactly what I wanted from a marriage. I wanted a man to take care of me for a change. I was willing to give up my time to help raise his child, be a part of his family, participate in his social life all for the exchange of him taking care of me and giving me what I needed. I thought it would be fair and square. But when the porn was thrown in.......that was way more then I bargained for! I was willing to accept his daughter, family and extensive social involvements, but I was not/am not willing to accept his lust for sex from outside sources. This is where I draw the line. Am I being unrealistic? A guy would say Yes. Some women would say Yes. But it really doesnt matter what anyone says, its what I/we are comfortable with and are willing to live with. I am not going to live with a man that does not believe I am his equal partner in life. I am not here for him to use when he wants flesh instead of a tv screen. He needs to go out of his way to show me that I am worth every ounce of time that he has to put into our intimacy time together. If he does not show me he is willing to put me first, then I don't want sloppy seconds.  

I am still studying for the board exam in 12 days. I am not making any decisions right now but I will say my life is worth more then sloppy seconds. :) 

We all have thoughts of death, murder, cheating the government, lying, (big and small) sexual perversions, on and on. But we don't cross that line, it remains in our consciousness but it is present.  Some people really like horror show, murder movies, war, S&M. Why? Because this is our brain and this is how our brain has been structured over the course of thousands of years. We are very intricate and complicated species.  

Sometimes I questioned "why?" is it that I am so uncomfortable with porn use? Why is it that viewing it alone, albiet a little on the depressing side, has been ok with me, but viewing it with other people brings discomfort? I find myself answering that one in a way in which is not very attractive. I don't like, and feel mad, when someone else is able to turn my man on. Also, I feel a sense of retraction and not being able to just give in to being turned on to other people when around my man because "I don't want to hurt his feelings"....silly, right? And another thing that has perturbed me about my feelings on porn, is my own sexuality and the fact that I am being turned on by other woman. I don't know how many men can admit to being turned on to looking at men in porn but I know that when a man watched porn he's not just looking a women, there are men and I am sure thoughts cross their minds, too, about their own sexuality or fantasies. I know no man will admit to being turned on here. But back to me :) I question my adamant feelings on my husbands porn use and what I find is the little child, little girl, that wants to have all the attention. I don't want to share my man....I want him all to myself. This is never going to happen, right? Yet, it is still really difficult to give of myself so freely to a person that at the flip of a switch, can get his needs met without me. It de-specializes our love and the excitement of being with one another. Is the answer go out and purchase 100 vids and put them out on display so that either one of us can watch them whenever we want? I don't know how my husband would really feel if he thought I was watching porn vids every day. Sandman would say he'd be turned on?! Right?????? But if your wife was watching porn vids every day and still only having sex with you once or twice a month, would that still be ok? After all, she is saying she is horney, just not for you!!!!!! This is what it feels like.  

Good morning. Once again the debate continues :)Maybe the saying, don't discuss, sex, politics or religion applies here? To RS. Hi. What is it about porn that turns you on? I mean, without getting too explicit. What is it about fantasy do you really like? Are you as visually stimulated by women as much as men when you view? Do you ever question if your lover might be more interested in the guy in the vid? Would it matter if you knew this about him? And Sandman. Hi. Are fantasies strictly sexual in nature or are they on a different realm? I know what the draw is to porn. Its the raw, available, different ways of sex. But if you knew your wife was fantasizing about the latest beastiality vid while she was with you and just verballized it, would it offend you in any way? Or would you be able to keep on going with even more reverence? I am just wondering if fantasy is so cut and dry to sex with a person. And what makes my fantasy wrong and yours not? When you speak of the mind and all its capabilities for thought,  

Anything forbidden is more attractive than what is free and clear. As Sandman says, that why we get married to one another. We need free, and clear and predictable just like we need forbidden, challenging and fantasy. Its keeps the day moving, the digestion going. I think we also need the challenge in things that are free and easy or lest we remain stuck and satisfied and not look beyond this. My mistake was expecting someone to be the way I wanted and needed them to be. For some reason I needed him to want me more then he wanted porn and I couldn't settle for the fact that he needed both as much. This is him, or was him. But if he changed his ways because of my actions or words, he has been manipulated by me.  And I have equally manipulated myself into thinking that I am not good enough to keep his attention and take offense with that. I allowed this to piss me off. He was just the doer of the act. But I was the reactor. But working through this process has changed me somewhat and I see intimacy as something different now. Leaning in neither direction. I want it and then I wonder if there needs to be boundaries with it. I look at sex as being a sacral thing, whether you are alone or sharing it with someone. But I clearly question the obsession with making it part of our days! 

Actually doing the fantasy does not remove the fantasy, like the two girl thing...i would guess if anything it just makes it more thought provoking for the next time! I think we run around scared of our sexualities and then make it someone elses problem. And we need to eliminate the word "control" from our vocabularly completely if we want to see the right outcome ; let it do its thing.  I know I am attracted to certain types of men and woman. My experience has been with men. Sex with a woman is different but the outcome is the same.  I would think lesbians like watching lesbian movies and gays like to look at gay flicks. Yet, we are heterosexual beings, I would think this can mean either we are sexual with both or the opposite sex only. But doesn't sex come down to one thing????? Sex. After the sex you get the euphoria and the memory and in time you'll start wanting that again. Then you try your damnest. Porn is a good substitute, at best. But I can see it as a hinderance if sex between the two or three people are strained. Like in my situation. I am holding back on being sexual with my husband because I was traumatized (ok guys don't freak out).....at least I felt traumatized by it, so by any defination, I was traumatized.....by his exposing me to his porn use at such a rapid pace and with no sensitivity to how I may be taking this. I would not expect him to like shaving everytime we made love, if that was my thing......I might think about he may feel about shaving right before we got down. Anyway, as you say, rs, it is about whatever two people decide is right for them and then consider what is right for the person you love and care about.