Messages By: neenna66

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October 20, 2007, 4:00 pm PDT

Policing Parents

I truly hope Dr Phil will look at the Hasselhoff case for what it is.  Hasselhoff is an alcoholic and an abusive man per court diocuments and children should never have to care for their parents while they are still children.  Their mother is perfectly fit and able to care for those children.  So why did she lose them?  Because the courts in our society place too much emphasis on PAS and other bogus syndromes.  Hasselhoff had a bulldog attorney and plenty of money and if you do not agree to "foster" a relationship with the other parent you are dead in the water and will lose your children.  What parent wants to send a child into that kind of environment unsupervised?  I know I don't with my ex-husband yet I am forced to do so.  This is why fit mothers who have been abused or who believe that the children are being abused are losing custody daily in this country.  Read about 7 worse case scenarios at www.stopfamilyviolence.org.  I challenge you Dr Phil to look into the PAS scandal and air that story.  Be brave like Tatge and Lassuer were and show the truth.  Your viewers will be disgusted by what you discover.
 
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August 30, 2008, 11:59 pm PDT

There are gruops to help

Quote From: catdance45

I lost my case to a narcisstic- socialpathic  man that abused my child since he was 2.

I fought the system out of my mind  for three years when I found out he was a child abuser and bisexual after 25 years - of  faithful mairriage.

I wanted to die and almost had a nervous breakdown.

 

 

He got another girl pregnant and paid child support to her for 18 yrs. and I did not know about it.

My son was abused in the system and so was my daughter.

I was the worst abused-no criminal background and a day care provider for 16 years for Hamilton County Welfare

The courts tried to put me in jail for sticking to my story and missing a few appointments during the case. They said I was crazy.

I am looking for support groups and going to submit my whole story to different attorneys to reverse my case and go after Indiana if I can. I live in Ohio now.

My ex was also a nark and passed a poly test - My son has since said he lied at age 10 and lives with his father

Help Cat

 

 

 

There are groups to help.  Do a search for abuse, battered, non-custodial mothers (or moms).  What you will find will help you.  Just stay away from NANCM.  They are not pro-protective mother, they are pro-family, which with an abuser is a death warrant.  Abusers CANNOT co-parent.  I know because I have a child with an abuser.  And he only knows how to demand, and never works on compromises.  And to this day he still continues to abuse.
 
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August 31, 2008, 12:03 am PDT

Abuse excuse

Quote From: rainy68

Under the list of things your batterer will say to you if you leave him or try to, #2 is "I'll tell the judge you're a bad mother; you'll lose custody of the kids."
I used to think that was a threat.....5 months later I learned otherwise, and I'm not alone. There are literally thousands of mothers losing custody to their ex-abusers. NOT the "good" fathers who share EQUALLY parenting costs or cares. It's the dad's that want the mother out of their child's life to "pay her back" for leaving him. It's the abusive drunk ones who drink and drive with their kids, threaten their kids they will take away toys or pets. OH....and the #1 on the list of things your batterer will say to you is "If I can't have you, NO ONE WILL". Thankfully, I believed that one.


I was (un)lucky in that having had previous run-ins due to living with abusers when I was a child, my ex knew to use that.  I stayed for many years due to the threat of "I will take her away from you".  He even wrote me a letter after I got an injunction against him stating this very fact.  He said "Don't think it will look good for you if they look in your past, esp if I pursue it hard enough".  But in the courts today this is not a threat.  I feel for you rainy68 and any other mother who has to go through this.  I am one of the lucky ones in that I knew he could follow through on his threat and I took my safety and my child's safety very seriously.  Thankfully I only have to deal with the nightmare of attempting to co-parent with an abuser.  I am still able to protect this child almost 70% of the time.
 
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September 27, 2008, 11:07 pm PDT

PAS is junk science

The PAS monster was created by pro-pedophile Richard Gardner and his supposed findings were published in his own vanity press.  This is a far cry from being nationally recognized.  Call abuse what it is.  If there wer eabosultely no allegations of abuse and one parent is trying to turn the child against the other parent then that is abuse.  It is NOT a syndrome.  And allegations of abuse are not as common as some would lead you to believe.  A dismissal of charges or a finding that abuse did not occur beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean there was not abuse.  My ex is quite fond of saying I lied about the abuse because the courts did not find in my favor.  it does not mean he was innocent, it simply means I did not supply enough proof.  And with abusers it is difficult to supply that proof as abuse is hidden.  It is similar to incest and sex abuse, in fact any abuse.  No man is going to punch his wife while sitting in a crowded restaurant.  They will give a look and the beating will follow at home with only the children as witnesses.

 

One only needs to see the Parade article from July and the forum posts from that article (which are now blocked - I do have the link if Dr. Phil is interested).  Those opposed to mandatory shared parenting were literally attacked in every way possible.  Or go check out glennsacks.com.  The commenters on that blog will attack anybody - male or female - who opposes their viewpoints.  And the manner of the attacks (to me anyway) is so reminiscent of my ex it is scary.  So am I to not think these men who are so quick to abuse on a public forum - did not abuse their wives or children in private (where it can not be seen)?

 

Case in point - Alec Baldwin.  He cannot remember how old his child is "I don't care if you are 1 1or 12..." and goes on to call her a thoughtless pig.  This was done in a fashion that could be reported to the judge in the custody case.  One must seriously ask oneself if he is willing and able to do this where he could be caught - what does he do in private?  Abusers always act worse in private than they do in the public eye.  And Baldwin not only was abusive to his child that he supposedly loves sooo much, he was also abusive to others as well.

 
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September 29, 2008, 1:39 pm PDT

About lying

Quote From: saludevil

I'm sorry about your situation but that's not what PAS is about.  PAS is about lying to children in order to control them and the situstion.  Men AND women can be guilty.  When it comes to Equal Parenting, it is between two fit, caring people.  When PAS rears it's ugly head, that parent is obviously NOT fit or caring and does not deserve to be any part of their child's life.
PAS is not recognized.  Also the parent who is claiming that alienation is going on says this because there have been allegations of abuse.  Just because an allegation is not proven does not mean it did not happen.  I was absued and so was my child by my ex husband, yet because we coulkd not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, he says he is now innocent.  I can give you names of people who witnessed his abuse, people to whom he admitted abusing me, and more.  I cannot help the fact that these people were not allowed to tell thier story concerning me.  As far as my daughter is concerned, I will talk to her about the abuse we endured if she wants, I will tell her that her father has severe issues and no man should be allowed to abuse, and no I will not hold anything back from her.  This is PAS/PA in your book - at least according to the supposed professionals I have encountered.
 
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September 29, 2008, 1:43 pm PDT

SHE is the mother

Quote From: marylandmary

...that I believe PAS exists. My husband, Dan, and I have been together for almost 8 years. This is my first marriage and his second. He and his first wife had two children. His first wife left the marriage in 1995, after meeting someone on the internet . She had no resources or plan to support her children. She struggled with emotional and financial problems while living on her own. My husband had custody of both children after she left, though she had visitation. In addition, she paid NO child support.

 

Flash forward to 2001 when I met my husband....everyone is getting along OK, first wife re-marries and moves about 30 miles away. My husband and I get serious and make plans to get married (all this time the kids are living with him and see her once every other weekend, which was her choice, at her new home). Well, as soon as Dan and I bought our new home and started making plans for the future with the kids (from vacations to choosing and paying for college), this women went nuts! She started telling lies about Dan to the kids, particularly my step-son, sendiing me e-mails accusing me of being a childstealer, among other things. She made it very difficult for the kids, and us, and all this time she is still didn't pay a dime of child support!

 

For the next five years she continued to lie, evaded child support ,and  voluntarily impoverished herself by quitting her job as a school teacher to go back to school to get a Master's Degree! Can you believe it? So while this is all happening, she is continuing to tell my stepson, who was 15 through 19 at the time, what a horrible father and stepmother, Dan and I were. One night in January of 2006, after an argument with his dad, my stepson left the house, called her, went to live with her and for ALMOST A YEAR didn't speak to us! Through all this craziness, her craziness, Dan "took the high road" and refused to stoop to her level. I was so angry...angry that she had a $27,000 child support bill reduced to $4,400 (She told my stepson that Dan and I were trying to financially ruin her by enforcing the child support order - WHAT?!?) , angry that she alienated my stepson from his Dad, his older sister and me, angry that she went out a bought a BMW Mini-Cooper, while my husband and I are both working full time and sacrificing to pay for braces, college, car insurance, clothing, cell phone, you name it.

 

Now that my stepson is a Junior in college, I think he "gets it". He has distanced himself from her, but as he has said to us, he feels "sorry for her". My step-daughter is cooly cordial toward her and has no desire to have a mother/daughter relationship, but that has come with a cost to my stepdaughter's trust and self-esteem. I believe that their mother's own insecurities, fear of loss, selfishness and envy of us and our relationship as a family made her alienate herself from her children through the veil of PAS.  I can't be responsible for her "choices" and it is a shame that during the most critical period of her children's lives, their teen years, she pitted them against us as a way of being in control, because she had no control over her own life. Sometimes, I think PAS is self-induced and we all pay for it. 

Have you ever wondered what part you play in all this?  She made choices but these are still her children.  What part do you think you played in overstepping your bounds as a stepmother?  A stepparent shoudl STEP BACK AND PARENT.  It is not their job to take over only support bio-mom and bio-dad in their job.  As far as her going back to school, if she feels this will help her in the long run of obtaining better employment, then why should she not be able to do so?  Apparently the father has been able to care for the kids this long.  PAS/PA supporters are angry about the money, angry they have to pay when they do not have kids with them, and angry they don't get it when they have kids.
 
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September 29, 2008, 1:50 pm PDT

Nose tweak?

Quote From: nightrider_57

I am the parent and the x has done this to me. We are 4 years divorced. It was a bad marriage and a worst divorce. When I was served with the papers. I was sitting down with my two minor children. Who asked all the time. "Are you getting a divorce"? When the x came in. Got between the children and I, covering their ears and eyes. Praying in the name of "Jesus" not to let my children hear me. Well I said her name and reach out and twisted her nose. Long story short got arrested and was never able to return home again.

Fast forward the divorce is final. I have 50% custodianship and 30% custody. But it didn't work out that way. My childrens mom has refused every order in the final decree. And has refused to co parent with me after the divorce. In 2006, during a custody exchange. She backed me into my truck. As she is nose to nose with me. She threatens to "Get Rid Of Me Permanently" In front of my minor daughters. Long story short. When the police interviewed them they lied. And when they interviewed a second time they lied as well. On July 2 2008 we were to begin our vacation. But instead I get a call from cps. Telling me I am under investigation for abuse. And I can't see my children and I needed to go in.

I had the girls the weekend prior to the July 2 vacation schedule.

We had a normal parental moment that Friday night. I always talk things through with my girls quickly. So there are no hurt feelings. And we had a fine Friday night. And on Saturday we were headed to the pool. But the girls bathing suits were too small. So we go to their mom's to get their bathing suits. I see through the screen mom standing over them. Shortly after they came out. They seemed normal and we go to the pool.

That evening my youngest had an inflamed throat. So I take them to the er. Had a fantastic fun visit at the er

And the inflamation had gone down. I called the "X" and ran down the information to her.

fast forward to the cps phone call. So on Tuesday. July 1st, I get a call from cps telling me I can't see my children and I need to go in to see them.

I do... And watched the x enter, stopping at the receptionist. And then coddles my children in to a safe room. Please, my children have not even had corporal punishment from me.

The first two cps visits were hurried, things were not explained. I wanted to know the charges. Burt they couldnt tell me. So... we attend 4 mediation visits at cps to find a solution to a problem that wasn't there.

A problem the X created.

Fast forward, all cps mediation meeting failed. The wanted me to accept something that wasn't true.

No educated man would.

3 months later I am in childrens court. And they keep changing the charges. I go there and I am told by other attorneys, staff members that this case does not belong in these courts.

But the Judge is playing hardball. That would be fine if it was warranted. It isn't.

So I have this story, brought to cps by the X who has practiced parental alienation the 4 years we have been divorced. So now I am in Childrens court. They keep changing and making things up.

Because I did not do anything. I have no record or police involvement over the 10-year marriage except for the nose tweek. I paid dearly for that nose tweek. The court, even though I had not been arrested as an adult. And I was 46 at the time wanted to bury me so the x could get custody at that time. Well I pled to a disturbing the peace charge. ON the X's insistent they made me go through 1 year of anger management and 3 years probation.

Got through it... thought I was home free. She gets remarried. Now she is being divorced buy her current husband. Because he told me.. he is walking in my shoes.

I have watched cps change the charges against me many times. They want to make me an endangerment to my children for the same nose tweek that got me removed from the home 4 yrs earlier.

Because of all of this I recently had to go through the entire divorce documentation.

In doing so I found a lot of court manipulation by the x and her big dog attorney.

This is the problem. When the divorce started the x put my two daughters in therapy.

I didnt realize what kind of therapy it was. It was therapy with the premise that they had been abused.

They hadn't but the X is an incest survivor. An abused woman in her mind. So professionals have counseled my children for 4 years that their dad is abusive. And now trumped up charges are made against me again. And the children are lying to protect their mom.

Let me give you a little history about the X. When I met her she was suing the Episcopal Church because she was having an affair with a priest. She was in therapy because of her childhood. She was married to an addict and she was not able to have a child.

She had numerous miss-carriages and a still born at 7 months.

The marriage was hard and in the end prior to her serving me with divorce papers She had a substance abuse problem. I began an intervention for her and our family. I ended up in Alinon, therapy and just tried to be for there for my family.

Well the divorce came. The divorce was made into a nasty custody battle. She has practiced the worst case of parent alienation imaginable. And now she is retrying custody in childrens court.

And my experience with cps and childrens court is that they are having their way with me.

And I haven't seen or spoken to my children at their mothers insistence sine June.

I need help... and I cannot seem to find it.

It has affected my health, my finances, and my relation ship to daughters. I seriously need help.
I am sorry (and I do not know how to pare down the quote either so forgive me), but you reached out and put your hands on another individual in violence.  So even if this is just the first time you did this (alkthough I highly doubt it - nose tweaking is done in order to not leave bruises, yet still get the point across about who is in control), you are still not a fit parent.  And you go on to prove that by bringing in everythjing bad you can about your ex and airing it in a dirty laundry sort of format.
 
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October 1, 2008, 9:42 pm PDT

Infamous nose tweak

Quote From: nightrider_57

I was just told by the dependency court - the nose tweek was not dv. Now I get to go back and correct that injustace.

When I was at cps. The x's case worker grabbed the documents in my hand and started pulling on them out of my hands, in front of everybody.

Isn't that DV?

Judge Paul, Los Angeles superior court.

Referred to it as "the infamous  nose teeking case".

he also.... said, I have no record. The other city could make a parking ticket out of it if they wanted

I have all documentation proving all that I say.

So I am not interested in your man hating point of view.

My children and I have a serious problem.

And I told my  story  like many others have.

Do you judge all of them.... or just mine

It might be wiser since your oppinions are not fact. To show some curtisy and understanding for other people ploblems.

If  you can not find anything positive to say or something you know to be true. Stay out of it. It adds to the grief!

I am sorry but we will have to agree to disagree with that statement.  You reached out and twisted/tweaked your wife's nose for whatever reason.  You laid your hands on another person in a moment of anger or who knows what and without her permission.  You then go on to discuss an unnamed charge through dependency court.  We are left not knowing exactly what you were charged with through them.  It must have been somewhat founded or they must have had some concern for your chidlren to not allow visitations.

 

I am saying positive things.  I just do not agree with your view.  In my view, when I had a differing opinion with my ex-husband, he would abuse me further.  He would say things like shut up, be quiet (one of his nicer moments, stay out of it, and more).  I will not "stay out of it" simply to make your view easier to peddle.  I have a young child about whose welfare I am concerned and I have to remain vocal until the child is old enough to vocalize.

 
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October 3, 2008, 8:40 pm PDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: nightrider_57

I was just told by the dependency court - the nose tweek was not dv. Now I get to go back and correct that injustace.

When I was at cps. The x's case worker grabbed the documents in my hand and started pulling on them in front of everybody.

Isn't that DV?

Judge Paul, Los Angeles superior court.

Referred to it as "the infamous  nose tweeking case.

he also.... said, I have no record. The other city could make a parking ticket out of it if they wanted

I have all documentation proving all that I say.

So I am not interested in your man hating point of view.

My children and I have a serious problem.

And I told my  story  like many others have.

Do you judge all of them....

It might be wiser since your oppinions are not fact. To show some curtisy and understanding for other people ploblems.

If if you can not find anything positive to say or something you know to be true. Stay out of it.

It adds to the grief!

Not to be sracastic towards you but the last time I looked, the depndency court was not an expert in domestic violence.  The duluth model of power and control describes domestic violence and you tweaking your wife's nose is an attempt to control or subdue her.  I also believe that your dependency court judge needs to get some real quick training in what is and is not domestic violence.  While in the eyes of the law your nose tweak does not fit the criteria for dv, it most certainly does fit in the psychological viewpoint of dv.  Do a search for Duluth Power and Control Wheel.  Your nose tweak is classified as intimidation (making her afraid using looks, actions, gestures) and can also be classified under minimizing, denying, blaming (making light of the abuse or not taking her concerns about it seriously).

 

So to wherever in the world your dependency court judge is, I hope he catches wind of this program and reads this forum (doubt that will happen though).  This is simply because you did commit domestic violence and I would have to wonder if your ex-wife would have more stories similar to this one to share with us.

 
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October 3, 2008, 8:52 pm PDT

Jail for custodial parents?

Quote From: lisahciam

The men in these father's rights groups are in them because they are denied visitation with their children by their exes, or they have been falsely accused of having done horrible things.

 

What about the women who don't feel that a child needs his/her father? Do you think that's true? Don't you think children should spend equal time with both parents as long as both parents are fit? Or are you of the mind that kids only need their moms in their lives?

When you talk about money - why is it that non-custodial parents are thrown in jail for non-payment (whether or not they can actually afford it), but nothing ever happens when the kids are denied time with the non-custodial parent even though it's court ordered? Do you think it's right that the custodial parent can ignore a court order?

 

The problem with false accusations could become the same as false rape charges. It makes things harder to deal with when a true charge is made.

I can give you numerous instances where custodial parents wer eindeed jailed across the world.  One in fact was a sickening one - a 7 month pregnant mom was jailed for alleged interference.  SEVEN MONTHS PREGNANT!!!!!!  Type that into any search engine and you will see it is true.  Also look at Holly Collins (mom who fled to the Netherlands) with her chidlren.  She was accused of having MSbP as well as alienation and visitation interference.  She simply was trying to protect her children (the 4 yr old son received a broken skull from his abusive father).  There are so many of these cases out there.  There is also in fact a petition with the Inter American Commission for Human Rights regarding the denial of due process rights for abused mothers and children.
 

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