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Messages By: cashee

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April 17, 2007, 6:28 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: astrid07

 Ahh, gotchya. Thanks. Sorry about that.

 

I guess I am still wondering how long the recuperation time is, because it seems there is a gap between feeling on the brink of death and having actually made the choice to give up the babies. The emotional incompetence part seems pretty likely when someone is actively hooked up to tubes and is seriously ill, but what about after? I missed the time lines in this story - It seemed like she gave up her babies some time after release from the hospital.

 

Are there any lawyers on the board? Is illness considered duress? I always thought duress was through the use of force of some kind, it was something external. I think that the words coercion and duress are causing some confusion too.

 

I think that the argument that she was not emotional competent after suffering a difficult pregnancy related illness and physical depletion makes perfect sense (depending on the time frames that the papers were signed in relation to convalescence).

 

Also, are hospital staff not trained to deal with this? Where was her doctor? I would think she deserved better medical attention!

 

Recovery is different with every case. It depends on how sick the person was.

 

Just because someone is sick and is hooked up to tubes does not make them "emotionally incompetent"! Would you tell a kidney dialasis patient or any other physically ill person that they must be "emotionally incompetent" just because they are hooked up to tubes? To me that is very poor logic on your part. 

 

The point that was put forth was that Allison was under duress and coerced. She was coerced and under durress not just because she was physically ill. Either the lawyer, "friend",  or "adoptive family", (or all parties), used her condition to unethically put in progress the adoption. She was held in the lawyers office to further strain her physical and emotional state so that she would become even more strained and compliant.

 

 

Would you ask ... "How long does it take someone to recover from cancer, a heart attack, or a back injury?" You probably would not because you would be able to surmise that the length of recovery would depend on the severity of the case. Also, how much help you have and how much rest you are able to get can affect your recovery... as can whether or not you have good nutrition.

 

Allison's case was severe, and with little help in trying to care for twin babies, she was assuredly sleep deprived. Also, her nutrition was still insufficient and her condition continued to deteriorate. She did not have key components that are necessary in order to progress recovery.

 

To be more specific about HG post-partum recovery time, here is a link for you to look at

 

http://www.helpher.org/mothers/postpartum-recovery/index.php

 

and here is a quote from that link:

 

"Recovering from hyperemesis gravidarum (HG) can take a few months or as long as two years. It will often take 1-2 months of recovery for every month you were ill. Women who have nausea/vomiting into late pregnancy usually find it takes several months to regain their energy and restore their nutritional reserves. "

 

The time at which Allison signed the papers was 5 weeks post-partum.

 

You posed a very excellent question when you wrote this "are hospital staff not trained to deal with this?"   

 

              To answer that, no... many health professionals are ignorant of this disease or misinformed.

 

              Unfortunately, the severity of HG does not always depend on who your Dr. is, and even if you have an excelent Dr., you can have a severe case of HG. ... Again, just like with any illness.

 

 

 
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April 17, 2007, 8:50 pm PDT

Transcripts

I would love to be able to read the transcripts of the future court proceedings.
 
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April 18, 2007, 9:18 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: dmiller1

This case will not end well either for Alison of the Needhams. How old are these children now? Arent they around 2? I can only hope they are younger than that. Intentionally or unintentionally, are these children being poisoned against Allison in the first place? So in the event Allison was to get her children back, how would she be treated? A lot of ppl really dont see the gravity and the severity of having hypermesis on top of the post partum time of pregnancy. Not only do you have to deal with severe starvation - you have to deal with a lot of guilt. Speaking for me, at 14 weeks trapped and confined to a hospital bed with needles all over my body - feeling severe pain in my stomache and throat from the constant nausea and throwing up. People take enjoying/eating food for granted. You get to the point where you HATE to eat -- because it hurts so badly. You think because the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months that it will never go away. So at 14 weeks youre praying for death. Youre them praying for miscarriage - oh because you cannot handle this. Thoughts of abortion come into your mind - because you just cant handle this cant fathom living like this - would the baby eventually kill you? is it a baby or a parasite- - you cant talk cant argue - can only stare at the ceiling of your hellacious hospital room listening to your mother or family goodheartedly begging you to eat - sip this water - eat this cracker!!! You keep begging god for death - you beg for termination of the pregnancy. then you bleed--- and the horror of the situation hit s you --- the energy comes back for maybe 10 mins an you beg and beg god NOW to not take your baby - you are desperate begging god and whatever thing out there to let him live --- and the bleeding doesnt stop and you realize -- you begged for this -- you caused this

 

Of course -- the baby didnt terminate - thanks fully he was born a little over 9 weeks ago! But these are some of the thoughts that go through a HG mothers mind. These are the thoughts that go through someone who would NEVER EVER think like this before, someone who is stable! Suicide and such is NOT stable. The illness makes it that way -- not only the illness itself but the physical reaction you have to your body

 

Now back to Allison - her case was much worse than mine. I cringe to think of the horror she suffered. I cringe to think of the horror she is suffering now. If she lost her children -- at 6 weeks her already fragile body would have deterritate because the stress of that would affect her. So lets fast forward to Christmas- - yes - I can understand what she did. I dont condone it but I can understand it --- and looking into my self, unfortunately looking at my precious soon - I would do ANYTHING for him - anything -- and NOOONE will take him from me - yeah I can understand

 

And I find it also amusing - (reading thru the first 30 or so pages) that all of the HG mothers defend Allison - that should tell America something!!!! It is an illness - it is a huge problem - something must be done!

c

 

 

I too felt like my baby was a parasite. It was so aweful. I loved my unborn baby so much and that is what kept me fighting to get better medical care, etc... and got me through HG. It is absolutely heart-wrenching to think in that way about the baby you love and want.
 
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April 18, 2007, 9:21 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: suzannemarie

I would love to read the sealed ones.

So would I!
 
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April 18, 2007, 1:23 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: journeyofhope

Dear Dr. Phil,

I am writing to you, like all these other women, to tell parts of my story in the hopes of getting some real help. We have all suffered with a pain that I can only describe as heart shattering. I have had three experiences with HG, none successful. No words could possibly explain the overwhelming saddness I have felt trying to heal. There is an emptiness that will never truly heal as I accept the fact that I am terrified to ever try again.
Though I have many memories from the illness, I will tell the ones that stand out in my mind with such vividness that my heart aches now even two years after my last attempt.
I believe with everything in me that I would be dead now had I kept on trying.
The most painful memory stands out with my third attempt. I could not make it past 5 months. I lost 46 pounds. I was throwing up blood and bile at least 30 times a day, and for the last few weeks had blood not just trickling from my nose in nosebleeds, but spraying out violently as I wretched. All day and night.
At first I was suffering at home, trying several medications. None worked, not even the one I had to administer myself by needle into my leg and arm muscle. I was weak, unable to even think about eating or drinking even a sip of water, and unable to get a handle on any of it. I was on 4 medications in hospital. They managed to get my symptoms under control at about 3 months for 2 days and told me I was fine and should go home. The only reason I was fine was because I had a chemical soup being fed to me through I.V. So when they took me off everything, all at once, after only 2 days of peace... of course a few hours after being removed from medication, I was even more violently ill than when I had originally gone in to hospital. They could not get me stable again.
I would dream about swimming through a sea of orange juice when I could manage to fall asleep at all... I guess my body was so dehydrated that it started telling me I needed vitamins, liquids, nutrition.
They hooked me up so I could hear my baby's heartbeat, and it was beautiful. I felt such a saddness knowing that with the way things were going I wouldn't make it and knowing I would have to choose. I can still hear my baby's heartbeat now. I will never forget it.
One afternoon, I went to the washroom to splash some water on my face, got dizzy, sat on the toilet to stabilize myself, and woke up in the bathtub beside me. I rang the call button, and nobody came. So I pulled myself out and crawled to my bed on my hands and knees, crying and dragging the IV machine behind me, too tired to walk and no energy to stand, I sat on the floor by my bed and waited for someone to come, and cried. I called my mother and told her I knew I was dying and asked her to help me. The helplessness she must have felt.
At this point, I couldn't sleep because the motion in my mind from my dreams would send me into fits of wretching for hours.
I ended up terminating my pregnancy out of what I thought was necessity to save my own life due to lack of proper resources.  After leaving the hospital in wheelchair, I concentrated on physical recovery. It took a week and a half before I could really even swallow water, or anything else because of the pain, due to rips in my esophagus and lesions and tears in my throat lining. Even a full year later I developed problems with my gallbladder.. I've since learned is due to the illness.
The second attempt left it's own set of scars that fuels me now to do something about the injustice these sufferers were, and are still faced with. I was sent a psychiatrist while in hospital with my second attempt who would wait outside my bathroom door while I wretched to tell me I was overreacting. I was just pregnant, and that I must not want my baby. It makes me sick to think about. How could the medical profession that I came to for help kick me so hard while I was down? I even had a nurse angry with me for throwing up after she'd given me an entire dose of gravol through I.V. (Gravol made me feel even sicker... and I told them that, but surprise, they didn't believe me).
I far from received adequate care and resent being told I didnt want my children. Having a doctor pat your leg and tell you you are a wasting use of the hospitals beds as "there are a lot of other people much sicker than you dear", made me feel horribly alone. As one Emergency ward doc put it after observing me for a total of 5 minutes and taking no blood and conducting no tests.
It's taken me two years to be able to talk about it. Now I have vowed to myself that I will do whatever I have to do to spread the word and help as many women suffering with this illness as I can.
On June 24th of this year me and best friend will be walk/running from London to Toronto, Ontario, ending at Sick Kids hospital where a helpline is located for women suffering and their families. This is all to raise money and donate it to HG research. It will take 6 days, 50 kms per day, 5 kms per hour for 10 hours a day. We are calling it 'The Journey of Hope - to help pave the way for HG sufferers and their children.' We know its not as far as some others have gone for other illnesses, but it is as much as time will allow for now. I would walk around the world and back to find a cure to end this needless suffering. That will be followed by a fundraising dinner in which I am trying to gather as many guests as possible. Dr. Phil.. would you like to come? :)
I thank the HER foundation with everything in my being because after losing 3 children, it was the only place I could find that told me, without a doubt, I am not alone. There are no words that can express my gratitude. There are others. It is not in my head, and I did and do want my children, and I pray that I have even a quarter of the strength as Anne Marie and her co-founders have, so I too will be able to fight right along side them to help even just one woman.
Thank you Dr. Phil for any help you may give us. Please help separate fact from fiction with this illness once and for all... We need to be told by a medical professional that it is not just a figment of our imaginations, because the pain is so real it is absolutely unimaginable.

One of the most frustrating aspects of this disease is the way many women are treated by the medical community.

 

Even if you do get proper treatment, they often take it from you once you get stabilized... tell you you are fine and send you home. ... Then, if you aren't on proper meds, you spiral down into an even worse condition.

 

Sometimes if you go down that rebound spiral, it is even harder to get back on track.

 

I am so sorry for the way you were treated. ... Especially by those who treated this condition as a mental illness.

 
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April 20, 2007, 6:36 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: amom1st

I'm a single mother of two wonderful boys. I had HG with both of my pregnancies, and I thought about adoption on & off.  My heart goes out to  Allison, not one person other then my doctor understood what I was going through,  some people thought it was a way to get attention.

 

With my second son, I was still trying to work with HG. 11 weeks into my pregnancy I started to bleed very heavy with blood clots, because of the HG I was too weak to care. A co worker had to take me to ER.  The sad part was that I was happy when I saw the blood clots, because I thought good I'm losing the baby & can go back to a normal life without HG. God had other plans for me. Even with ongoing bleeding & HG when the doctors in ER did an ultrasound I saw my  son of 11 weeks inside of me moving around (what looked like without a care in the world).

 

My doctor referred me to great doctor, that right away put in the hospital, with iv, & a feeding tube. Once I was discharged (a little under two weeks). I was sent home with the feeding tube, & had weekly visits to doctor (until my due date).

 

The disability insurance company liberty mutual) I have through my employer, gave me a real hard time. They couldn't understand why I couldn't go to work. They had no idea what HG was, and didn't care to hear with my doctor was telling them. I lost my car, before they even decided to pay me.

 

To me HG is a disease, that will break down even the strongest woman. Again I love both of my sons, but at that time if lost them during my pregnancy I would have been okay. I also have to add that the only reason I went through my pregnancy with my 2nd son, was because I had an abortion  (because I had HG), & I was traumatize by that abortion.

 

I even looked called several adoption agencies because I was so unhappy with my pregnancies (I did this with both of my sons). HG mentally ruined me, & if it wasn't for friends stepping in & talking to me on daily bases I know for sure my youngest would have been given up for adoption.

 

Once I had my youngest son, I went on line on wrote different shows about HG, because I felt so alone. I knew other women had to have HG, and I wanted to know if they felt the way I did. Or was a monster in having an abortion, wanting to miscarry my sons (sadly sometimes praying for it), & yes even wanting to give them up for adoption.

 

Not one show responded to me, thus making me feel like I was part of a very small percent of women to have experience HG, or maybe mentally I was causing this sickness.

 

I will write to Allison, and pray for her everyday.

 

I want to thank Dr. Phil for doing this show. It's just sad something like this had to happen.

 

P.S

My youngest son is now 6

I had an abortion because of HG and it was very traumatic for me too. The exam room where I was prepared for it was next to a pediatric ward. The walls were thin so I could hear children playing... As the lamara tent (that slowly opens up your cervix) was painfully jammed into me, I heard a little girl on the other side of the thin wall crying out for her mother  "mommy... mommy"  ... That little voice still haunts me to this day.

 

For me, that traumatic experience is one of the strongest reasons that made me fight so hard for better health care during my second pregnancy. Sadly, I had to fight almost every day of my pregnacy ...so not only was I worn out from HG but also from constantly fighting to get prescriptions for Zofran.

 

You aren't alone. Many HG mothers have gone through this too. The "Loss, Grief & Recovery" thread in the forum at www.helpher.org is a great place to go to share your story and read about the experiences of other women who have also gone through this.  Here is a link to the forum http://forums.helpher.org/

 
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April 20, 2007, 6:42 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: my3boys01

From the research I have done on adoption in the states, there are different ways to go about it.  Some means of adoption are shadier than others.  When my husband and I were gathering information and speaking with agencies, we found them to be solidly interested in keeping the childrens' best interest at heart.  However, we dealt with agencies highly recommended for their integrity.   We were actually turned down before our processing even began as my husband will be posted overseas soon and their policies specifiy that you must remain in the states during the entire process, which can take a year or more.   However, not all adoption agencies or attornies who specialize in adoption follow the same "rules."  A coworker suggested we do the same as he and his wife, which is to get on a "short list" with a home for unwed mothers.  Thier adoption was very "fast and easy" or "quick and dirty," however you want to look at it.  Private adoption can be riddled with problems, in my humble opinion, and can really facilitate an issue like Allison's occuring.  So, while I love my country with all my heart, I do not believe our adoption laws and policies always consider what is best for the children or the birth parents. 

 

Your point:  Would you want adoptive parents to be any way but eager to have your children?

I totally agree with you.  If I were placing a child for adoption, my desire would be for the adopting parents to want that child with ALL of their heart. 

 

I just have such a hard time, a really hard time, bending my mind around their desire for these kids being immediately stronger than Allison's.  They received the children so quickly after the papers were signed, but she also changed her mind very quickly.  Were they not informed that Allison had changed her mind right away by the lawyer she immediately contacted? I thought I heard her new lawyer say that she was in an attorney's office, within 8 hours, seeking help in getting her children back.  (Maybe I'm incorrect.  If so, please do set me straight, I do not want to promulgate misinformation). How was their bond with the children was stronger than Allison's so quickly after receiving the children?  Strong enough to withhold the children?  I wish the prior relationship between all parties involved was more clear.  Do you find the law of no second chances as barbaric as I do?  That is why she must prove duress.  I agree that the courts will have to decide and hope as you do that ALL facts will be uncovered and presented well. 

 

I also agree that it is possible to have sympathy for both sides.  But, I still shake my head over how much (I just suspect) the custodial/adoptive parents knew about her condition prior to receiving the children.  And, as I said before, if they did know......my sympathy vanishes into thin air and I hold only contempt for them. 

 

My best to you.

 

 

 

I agree with what you have written.

 

I hope this case causes the American government to take a closer look at their private adoption policies.

 
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April 20, 2007, 9:07 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: cashee

I had an abortion because of HG and it was very traumatic for me too. The exam room where I was prepared for it was next to a pediatric ward. The walls were thin so I could hear children playing... As the lamara tent (that slowly opens up your cervix) was painfully jammed into me, I heard a little girl on the other side of the thin wall crying out for her mother  "mommy... mommy"  ... That little voice still haunts me to this day.

 

For me, that traumatic experience is one of the strongest reasons that made me fight so hard for better health care during my second pregnancy. Sadly, I had to fight almost every day of my pregnacy ...so not only was I worn out from HG but also from constantly fighting to get prescriptions for Zofran.

 

You aren't alone. Many HG mothers have gone through this too. The "Loss, Grief & Recovery" thread in the forum at www.helpher.org is a great place to go to share your story and read about the experiences of other women who have also gone through this.  Here is a link to the forum http://forums.helpher.org/

I meant to type laminaria tent.
 
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April 20, 2007, 11:42 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: kovacha

There is no conceivable way to explain the physical pain and emotional distress of Hyperemesis.  As a three time sufferer of HG (daugthers age 7, 2 and one on the way) it takes everything I have to function daily.  I have been hospitalized and continue to receive IV and medicinal treatment during my current pregnancy (17 weeks).  Taking care of my family, going to work, and living a normal life is completely out of the range of possibility.  I am super supported by my husband, our parents, neighbors and church friends, yet even they can not offer me what I crave -- a few hours to just feel normal, to eat a small meal without it coming back up, to help my daughter get dressed for school, to work a normal day without someone telling me how horrible/tired/pale I look.  And, while laying on the bathroom floor nearly unconcious before the last hospital trip, I prayed to please just let it end or let me die or let something put me out of this misery.

The impact this has on our family is enormous.  My 2 year old announces to everyone she sees "mommy sick" and my 7 year old has had a noticeable change in behavior and school performance over the past 10 weeks.  My husband is at his last nerve, trying to go to work, be helpful at home, take care of the girls, manage the numerous phone calls with the insurance carrier, and support me and my needs.

The only good thing that comes out of this, from my two prior experiences, is that eventually the baby has to exit and will hopefully be as delightful and lovely as my two "big" girls are today.

Yes... thank goodness there is an end to HG eventually.

 

Keep that in mind. 

 

When I was on the bathroom floor and really sick, I used to visualize pushing my baby out and imagining how happy that moment would be. 

 

Try to visualize something like that when you feel at your worst.

 
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April 20, 2007, 11:43 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: the_polkadot

 Yes!  She is absolutely lovely and appreciates everyone's letters and thoughts so much...I adore her...I think she is such a nice person...
I really should take a little time out from posting on this forum to send her a letter.
 

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