Messages By: indnoutlaw

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October 12, 2005, 2:17 pm PDT

Homosexuality

Quote From: fabala

And I am saying what I think now: that your view is highly ignorant. God created both men and women, yes, but He didn't choose who those men and women went to spend their life with, and He obviously makes each person different. And being gay is not a choice: you don't choose one day to have your body be attracted to people of the same sex. I am heterosexual and always have been, but I find it rude when people start talking about "ex-gays" and saying that gays can be changed. Why do they need to change? And how do we know what those supposed "ex-gays" had to go through just to be called that? I bet that anyone would change who they are eventually if someone taught them their way of life was wrong every minute: look at the Native Americans being sent to "Americanizing" schools in the 1800s. "Ex-gays" either were not really gay in the first place to make publicity for the movement or are gays hiding their attractions as to fit in, and either way you look at it, it's wrong.
 AMEN!!!  I totally agree with you.  It's not easy and it's one of the most difficult things that any gay person ever has to do in life.  "Ex-gays" were either never gay to begin with or they just went back into hiding.  The pressure to conform is so enormous, even in today's more accepting society.  Why can't people let others live their own lives?  It doesn't make any sense to me.  Are they just so bored with their lives that they have to try and find fault with other people's?  And why does every dicussion about homosexuality always lead into a debate about what the bible says or doesn't say?  In my opinion, if that's the best that homophobics can come up with then they need to get a clue. 
 
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October 12, 2005, 6:04 pm PDT

yes

Quote From: melinda05

Does anyone else have a problem withtheir siblings? 

  

Ever since my sister ws old enough she got away with murder and was so spoilt that she turned into a monster. She is vindictive, malicious, deceitful and acts like she owns the world.  

I am not jealous of her I am resentful of my mother and father for making me feel I was 'cast aside' and that she was always worth more. 

  

I told her straight what I thought of her a few months ago after she made nasty malicious comments about my relationship with my fiance - in front of him and to him - and we havent spoken since. I just cant take the way she tries to make me feel small and tries to embarrass me in front of family and friends. 

My mother and father took her side - they had an argument with me about what had happened and when they said what she had told them there was not an ounce of truth in any of it. She had told blatant lies. My fiance couldnt believe what they had said and was astounded as he had been there. 

  

At a recent family gathering she congratulated my fiance on his engagement to me, loudly so everyone could here, and blanked me. She did this twice in the evening and made me feel like when I was a kid again. 

  

I get tired of the passive aggressive remarks and my mother's embarrassed face because she knows what' happening. It is really tsressing me out and I feel like just running awa sometimes. 

  

Has anyone else had this sort of relationship at all where the other sibling will just pick pick pick until you feel worried to visit your own family for fear of them being there? 

 my older brother is the same way.  but he's actually violent about it.  there was a time when my girlfriend and i went over to his house (at his request).  a puppy had gotten into the bags of trash that he had on his front porch (duh!!!).  my brother took his hand gun and put it in the dog's face.  when my girlfriend called him out on it, he turned around and pointed it at us. that wasn't the first time that he has ever stuck a gun in my face.  then there was the time when i was 13 and he actually raped me.  try getting your parents to believe u on that.  my mom basically said, "What do you want ME to do about it?"  my stepfather said that he was "just a growing teenage boy," my grandmother told me that it was my fault, and my biological father flat out called me a liar.  the way that i deal with is that i just don't have anything to do with them.  I have reached the age where i am no longer willing to let them control how i feel.  i tried to have a relationship with these people but they keep making snide comments about not everyone who claims to have been raped is telling the truth.  so i just don't deal with it.  of course that isn't the only issue that i have with my family but that would take too long.  oh, my mom did eventually apologize and her and i are trying to build a new relationship.  sorry, wish i could impart some words of wisdom to but i'm afraid on this subject, this is all i have.  hope you can figure out what to do that will make you comfortable with you life and the relationship that you're in.   good luck!
 
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October 12, 2005, 6:30 pm PDT

good for you

Quote From: pastor05

Hi. 

  

Where do I start?  My family has never been completely happy.  My mother is the one who has always been very arogant, mean and abusive towards my Dad and I early on.  When my sister came into the family(I am six years older than she is), my parents pretty much let her do what she wanted and now, at 36(I will be 42 in December), she has controlled my parents to the degree that they have now turned on me and told me that I am nothing but a liar and a "bad daughter."  The truth of the matter is that my sister has inherited my mother's violent and abusive traits.  I, as well as my husband and inlaws now, have seen her hit my father, more often than my mother who tends to just let her do what she wants--that is, she continues to live in their home, has had a child out of wedlock my daughter's age(7 years)and has controlled their income, their social and family life, etc. so much so that it has destroyed any contact I have with them now. 

  

We first had a falling out 7 years ago, my mother and I since a child she has often hit, cuss, terriorize and threaten me and it all began in 1997 when my daughter was a baby and I was not doing everything I should for my sister.  When I said "no" and tried to stand up to both of my parents, my mother left 5 angry and violent messages on our phone.  My mother-in-law, who was there at the time, was so upset that of course, I ended up breaking the relationship with my family for just a year or so. 

  

When we made our peace, I thought that perhaps my mother had changed and we had become closer.   My dad, on the other had, looked awful and was always upset.  It was like they changed roles in the course of a year but I knew that all the abuse, the violence, the anger my mother and now my sister had projected on my Dad, had worn him down.   My mother, on the other hand, had my sister diagnosed with bi-polar syndrome and often when they came for a visit(we live several hours away)would talk hateful about her and told me once that she wanted her to die or wished she would just take her life now as she often would threaten my parents with the thought of taking her life because no one understood her. 

  

My sister has pretty much alienated herself as well as my parents and niece from both sides of the family.  Only one aunt, my dad's older sister, thinks I am being unreasonable and unChristian by finally deciding to leave for good and never to have contact again because after speaking to a therapist, they all refuse to change and rather, they have gone to my inlaws, my grandparents and others and told such nasty lies about me when everyone, except for this aunt, knows the truth and realizes that it is my sister and my mother who has destroyed my Dad.  My dad has turned on me and he told my husband recently that I lie, cheat and steal all the time which could not be further from the truth.  I have never even received a speeding ticket and it is my sister who was taken away by the police several times in the past few years for attacking my Dad.  This older sister of my dad has totally broken my confidence and sent copies of my email to them and they called the other night, stating that I was a "blankity-blank" lier.  My dad called my mother-in-law and tried to get her to hear their side that I am a lier and she told him that she did not want to speak to either him or my mother and hung up.    

  

Of course, this is all over the fact that when my 7 year daughter and I were home, my sister, in a violent rage, attacked my daughter and I got upset and yelled at her.  In turn, my parents and my sister came down on me and my daughter, scared to death, wanted to leave and we did as we ended up staying at my inlaws.  My husband was in school and did not know what was going on until he tried to call my parents and they just hung up on him.  Of course, the real blessing was that my mother's step-mother, whose relationship is truly strained, just happened to be there and witnessed this entire episode.  I have since talked to her and she has told me stories that my Granddad, who died last year, told her about my mother.  It turns out that she ended up marrying my dad out of spite against him when she could not get any money out of him.  He and I, on the other hand, have always had a great relationship and he once told me that she never did treat me right and it pains me now to think he is not here to turn to.  My dad, who has no backbone and could never stand up to my mother, was quite the opposite.  He could never provide us with the proper essentials and now, it looks like my sister is just going to take everything my mother inherited towards her dad away because all she does is harrass them for money so she can get drunk every night. 

  

I cannot go back to my family.  My marriage is a good one and very solid.  But that is because I waited and wanted to marry the man I am with now.  We are very happy, despite this one upheavel.  I am fortunate to have a husband, daughter, inlaws and other family members, except for the one aunt who thinks I am wrong, to stand behind me. 

  

Thank-you for listening. 

 of course your dad not being around hurts and realizing that our families are not what we want them to be is a painful process.  i have always said, it's not the people that raised me or grew up with me that i consider to be family, it's the people that i choose to allow into my life now that i consider to be family.  blood might be thicker that water, but  "love is thicker than blood."
 
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October 13, 2005, 4:45 pm PDT

Homosexuality

Quote From: gebham

well said. hey if you feel like joining in the debate in the current new forum under 'gay marriage' all feel free. 

Its getting quite heated at the moment. 

 sure, how do i find it, i'm kinda new to computers, and the internet
 
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October 13, 2005, 7:50 pm PDT

Gay Marriage Debate

Quote From: mommyjenna

I'm not surprised that again you don't want to answer the questions.  You don't want to answer for obvious reasons. 

You will probably answer 'no'  to adding polygamy and sibling relationships to be included within the definition of marriage.   And to your 'no' I would respond with the same sentiments you respond to me with "Who are YOU to decide?  Who are YOU to judge"?  

And when you answer 'why' you wouldn't change them, you'd probably say that God created marriage for just 2 people and not for brothers and sisters.  

And so far as I can tell, God created marriage for one man one woman. 

Seems like the lowest common denominator in our disagreement is in regards to how to interpret the scriptures.

If you want to examine the scriptures surrounding marriage or homosexuality, I'd be fine with that.  I don't think there are that many scriptures dealing with homosexuality.

I also would be very happy to look at evidence surrounding the 'born gay' beleif.  I've looked at quite a lot of it and haven't seen anything at all convincing.





 Well, I would like to know when you DECIDED to be straight.  I would also like to know when you CHOSE to feel the way that you do about your boyfriend or husband.  Another thing that I would like to see is evidence surrounding the "born straight" belief. I too have seen nothing that convinces me that you were born straight.  And don't quote the Bible to me UNLESS you can give me scripture from the FIRST Bible ever written in it's original language.  To quote to me from a book that has been through thousands of years and hundrdeds of generations of translations and revisions is ignorant.  It only shows that you are a follower and not a leader in your beliefs.  Just for the record, I'm a devout Christian lesbian, and have been all of my life.  The difference between you and me is that I let God guide my heart so that I'm not led astray by other people's opinions, whether published in a "bible" or not.
 
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October 20, 2005, 4:32 pm PDT

Gay Marriage Debate

Quote From: mommyjenna

 I disagree.  I think it's perfectly okay to lust after my own husband.  

If lust is an issue, then you'd have to make sure you are not having lustful thoughts as well.  Lust is about the mind.  How do you ever get in bed with anyone at all without ever thinking about it.  How do you have an orgasm? 

However, the verse here states a couple of these times that the relations between men and men and women and women are 'unnatural'.  Now, if we are all born to sin, then sin will come naturally, correct?  Quite a few times, the Bible makes it well known that we are all prone to sin.  I know for myself, this is the case sometimes.  So why did he choose the word 'unnatural', instead of just 'sinful' if we are all prone to sin?
there is nothing unnatural about making love with the person that you're in love with.  in my opinion, unnatural sex includes one night stands, casual sex, sex with children.  but when it comes to the person that God put on this earth for you to spend the rest of your life with then there is nothing unnatural about it. whether they are male or female it makes no difference. the bible says that we are made in God's image. but what if it meant God's spiritual image and not a biological one. weren't all living creatures made in God's image. after all, God is a spirit, not a creature.
 
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October 20, 2005, 4:57 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: mr_lion

My theory is - All humans are born potentially bi-sexual and yes, sexuality starts at birth.  The new born is sexual.  It is just not manifested in children the same way as during puberty, when the physical characteristics start to set in.   

  

Do NOT confuse sexuality with behavior.  I said children are sexual and do have sexual feelings.  I did not say that they necessarily act out in terms of what we would call "sexual acts."  Children may act out a sexual feeling in ways that we would not necessarily consider sexual.   

  

For instance, I know now that I felt sexual attraction in connection with males before I was 4 Yrs old. 

  

This is a true story:  I remember once when my 11 yr old male Cousin came to my house for a visit.  I owned a toddler's ride-about stuffed horse.  My prized possession!  My cousin took my horse away  from me and sat down on it very hard, bending the legs.  He was clearly too heavy for it and it was starting to break.  I remember being incredibly frustrated and crying at him to get off my horse  before he ruined it completely.  He remained on it bouncing and laughing.  While all this was happening, I can recall experiencing a sexual feeling, a kind of pleasure/frustration all at once, perhaps from seeing him straddling my horse.  There was absolutely no physical contact between us.  I believe an adult then came in and ordered him off the horse.  In any case, the legs were almost crushed..  Now to my 3 1/2 Yr old mind, all horses were male animals then.  I recall that after the visitors had left and I was alone in my room with the stuffed horse, I pulled my pants down and proceeded to piddle all over it, soaking and ruining the soft fabric.  I was probably punished, after all I was already potty trained, my parents having no idea why I did such a thing.  My thoroughly ruined horse was thrown out.   I definitely know now that my childish urination act was clearly, an act of masturbation.   It came about as a result of the powerlessness and frustration I felt about my prized toy, and the fact that it was ruined by another male.  The fact that the horse (in my mind) was male, probably had some significance too. 

  

I present that true scenario just as one example of how a toddler might act out his/her sexuality   And believe me, that act was definitely sexual.  I still remember it. 

  

As a Psychologist, I have been studying human sexuality for over 40 years.  I would suggest you read some of the works of Sigmund Freud regarding sexuality. 

  

BTW, nobody can choose to "fall in love."  Falling in love is quite involuntary and is a sexual manifestation.  One might fall in love with someone of the same sex.  Although falling in love is not love, it certainly is a prerequisite for starting a sexual relationship, that hopefully will lead to true love.  Otherwise, one might as well just have a platonic relationship with someone that is loved.  I'd suggest reading M. Scott Peck MD - "The Road Less Traveled"  for further explanations regarding what is love and what it is not love. 

well put, bravo
 
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October 22, 2005, 10:05 pm PDT

Homosexuality

Quote From: toshinshi

 What are you even doing back here?
 Ok, I'm going to go back to one of the posts you had removed a while back. Just to make a point.
 *Direct quote here.
 " ya...actually God did chose who you want to spend your life with"
 Ok, if God has this almighty power to conrol our fate, THEN HOW THE HELL DID WE CHOSE TO BE GAY?! If he controls all, and can make us love, then how can we do against him? Now your saying we have all the control again.
You have contradicted yourself like this many times in your posts.
  To say the least, the only way for you to really understand that its not a choice is to truely know what it feels like to be gay, but you never will,you can't. And neither can I really.
As I have said in previous posts, I'm transsexual, not gay (yet). Ever since I was little, I prefered more boyish things and to have them as company. By middle school I wanted to be a man. Everything is different as a man, from how they use the batroom to how there treated in society. I crave it, to know what it feels like; not having breasts, arousal, climax, even riding a bike feels different. I know this isnt just some curiosity, its a mental flaw. I can't even watch a show or read a book if the main character is female. The female body is gross to me, I can't even really look in the mirror. In all my dreams and fantasies, I'm male; its haunting really. The fact that I cant even imagine myself with a man as a girl without wanting to cry.
 You can never understand how that feels. It's painful; and it definitely not a choice. Why can't you see that?
I say these thing not to say that everything you believe and say is wrong (which is what your saying), but to try to make you see things from our prospective. Its only fair to yourself to be able to see both sides of the story before forming your own choice about it. I'm not saying your wrong because you believe in God or anything. I say that your wrong because you don't fully understand. Once you can understand how we see things and understand our different viewpoint, and you still feel this way about us, then theres nothing wrong with it. Your intitled to your own opinion. And once you can show that you understand all the viewpoints of the topic, people will respect that opinion.


well put
 
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October 24, 2005, 2:42 pm PDT

Huh?

Quote From: txmxgrl

  its odd that everytime whether someone was alcoholic ,drug user, or gay.......WHY IS IT THAT THEY WERE ONCE HIGH ON DRUGS/ALCOHOL/GAY AND NOW THAT GET HIGH ON RELIGION????? ALWAYS ONE EXTREME TO ANOTHER
I don't understand what it is that you are trying to say/ask. Please elaborate so that I can have a chance to reply.
 
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December 2, 2005, 7:38 am PST

Gay Marriage Debate

Quote From: mommyjenna

 Well why do you think the ancient book said that this was wrong in the first place?


Actually, the Old Testament of "the acient book" didn't have a problem with incest or inbreeding.  Indeed, it promoted polygamy.  Did you know that three homosexual relationships are documented in "the acient book."  Just a little food for thought.
 

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