Messages By: oet_gaol

Well I think it is something thaty a teenager should be answering aswell 'cause it is still a two sided story here, and that a reply by a teenager will give you insite in why they look at it. 

Unlike children only condemming it and punnishing it maybe will NOT work. That has to do with the nature of teenagers. Teenagers are in general somewhat rebellious towards authority because they are inventing themselves. 

I myself wouldn't be as worried about the porn, I know from personal and my friends experience that looking at porn is not as much about the sex but much more about curiosity about what sex can be. What you should talk to them about it and make sure they keep perspective and know it is a film made to generate sales (like you make sure they know that an action movie is cool onscreen but you shouldn't walk into a building and kill every one there.) 

Then when you talk about it make sure you speak to them as equals as adults, even though they are not it will prevent the "I hate authority" mechanism to kick in. 

Also keep in mind that if you take the porn away you won't take away their thought and more inportantly their friends. I know for sure that many boys who have an internet connection will at one time have looked at porn out of curiosity, at school we talked about it quite a number of times. 

And if their interrest will shift towards (BD)SM it will probably where there interrests lie not because they have seen porn. I for one like redheads more then other haircollors that doesn't mean I have seen only movies with red-heads in them. And even if they look at BDSM that doesn't mean they will want it themselves, porn can be the visiualization of a "dark" fantasy you wouldn't dare dreaming of acting out for real. 

And I'll make it more shocking, children as young as 10y old will talk about sex with their friends, not about having it but more in the likes of YOU SAID BL*WJ*B!! gighel gighel they will not know what most of those words will mean but the'll use em anyway.  

That means that sex education has to start not later then twelve because it is much easier to write on a clean sheet of paper then a full one. And remember that the smallest gestures can make a profound impact, I remember that when my dad talked about sex with me he closed the curtains, for him it was because it was getting dark my interpretation at the time was on the other hand that it was something that you shouldn't be seen talking about. And it made a profound impact 'cause it is the only thing I can remember from that conversation. 

Remember also that you shouldn't only tell the nagative sides of sex! CHILDREN ARE NOT STUPID!!! They know that there is a multi billion dollar porn industry  and know that if sex only had negative sides to it that there wouldn't be a porn industry at all. So also talk about the positive sides of sex and of course don't forget to talk about the condom (and the pill for girls better to safe then sorry) This will also take out the being bad if you have sex side because if you're a teenager bad often equals cool. 

Also remember that the age on which teens have sex for the first time is 16,9 years in the US (study by durex 2004)  so the 16y old is actually at the age of having sex be glad he's only looking at it. And hey perhaps he even learns from it (how to keep it interresting for instance) in a recent television show in the Neterlands in which teens (though the teens came not from the Netherlands originally) said they looked at porn just to learn new positions and so. 

I know that it isn't what you want to hear but it is the truth, sex is just a part of growing up and porn just fufills the teens needs to be educated about the subject. 

Though I don't know you're daughter, by you're discription it seems as if you're daughter has another problem then being sexually active, I think she has a low self asteem and tries to make up for that by being 'cool' in any way possible and sex has been made cool in todays world. 

because if she would be just sexually active she wouldn't be asking boys if she is pretty, she wouldn't be lying about the other things you named either (at least not a lot, spicing thing up is quite common between teens) 

I think that the situation that you're daughter MIGHT be in is quite dangerous because she MIGHT do a lot of things just to get the attention and to feel pretty which won't work ofcourse. 

But I can't give much advice because you first need to ask yourself if she has sexual contact with lots of boys just to get attention or just with one boyfriend, because even though fifteen is quite young to have sex for the first time it is not uncommon. 

Also you will need to asses how much she lies about those things, is it on a dayly basis or just once a while to spice up her stories. and to whom does she "lie" (and more importantly to how many, she might just want to impress a boy) and are there :P smilies with that message indicating she tells it for fun.  

Maybe you wan't to ask her about her selfasteem but be carefull if you ask it to directly she'll just say everything is fine, ask her lot's of questions on which you can base what kind of self image she has. (e.g. how went Volleyball today? if she answers with fine or bad and the likes ask "What did you do" or "How did you do") if she answers with small answers you won't get any wiser "provoke" her to give longer answers. Also make sure she doesn't get the feeling something's up so make sure you don't ask to much more questions then you are used to. 

And again as I said in the last post make sure you talk to her in an adult way because she'll say anything if you get of her back sort to speak. (nothing personal it's just how teens work.) Also talk to her that she shouldn't be to careless when it comes to sex because before you know it your known as a slut which I'm sure she's not. 

It might be my Dutch view but I'm thinking that this whole discussing is nonsense. Who cares if their son or daughter is gay he or she will be just as happy as any straight person. And even if you want your son/daughter to be straight you shouldn't seek "help." You wouldn't seek help if he or she wanted to become a mecanic while you want him/her to be docter? (though I'm not suggesting being gay/bisexual is a choice) 

If your son or daughter tells you he/she is gay let het celebrate that and join in yourself aswell because they have found their true identity. 

And what sicko ever said every gay person schould have a trauma? I know of enough gay's which dont have a trauma. 

And another thing why do you supress gay's with things liken no gay marrige and religion? WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF? 

Besides why do you hide behind religion to condem gay's? Religion can change to match the current world, because if religion was a static thing how come that we have hunderds if not thousends of religions across the globe? 

Why don't you just accept gay's the way they are? 

You say it states in the bble that being gay is a sin, yet you also state that man has a free will, and here is my problem: 

It was man who wrote down the bible NOT god maybe by devine inspiration maybe not who knows, isn't it possible that some one might slip in a few ideas which served his own purposes? (remember we have free will) 

Furthermore the bible has been translated many times from it's original Hebrew to Greek to Latin and from there on into the modern languages don't you think there might something be lost in translation? 

And by the way didn't Jesus die for our sins? And why would you hate gays? Wasn't one of the ten commandments love thy neighbour? You say you don't hate gay people yet you say they are taken by the devil BY CHOICHE!!! You question there faith, that doesn't seem nice to me, you just hide your hate or fear behind religion. And that has happenend before with religion, suppression of the blacks for instance because they where not as "good" in the eyes of "god" to name one. was no more then hiding commercial interrest behind religion. 

And what you say that being gay is a choiche, well though straight I can assure you that it's not a choice to be gay otherwise I think there wouldn't be as many gays or do you think it is fun being scolded for being the devil all the time by the likes of you? That people are tring to change you into somthing they think is "normal"? Or not having the same rights as straight people? or having a smaller pond to fish from for a mate? 

America says it is a free country and it is, just not for everyone I guess otherwise gay marriage wouldn't have been such an issue and people wouldn't have to be changed all the time.  

I dare you to proof me wrong America! 

Now I don't want ot b*tch about it oh wait yes I do want to b*tch about it: 

You say "But let's just put aside the issue of belief for a moment." and only three lines later you say: "GOD did not make, or create, or cause to be, homosexuals. IF He had He, being GOD, would have been smart enough to equip humans for that purpose." 

I'm sorry but to me that is religion, I'm sorry you assume that every one believes in one god of some sort yet that issn't true I'm affraid We've got Buddists, Hindoes, Atheïsts and many more religions that don't believe in one god or god at all. 

Anyway back to the issue "God" also forgot to make the humans strong enough to resist the temptation to eat the apple of the tree of knowledge. As a matter of fact he kikked us out of paradise for a mistake he made. not much of a self critic, eh? And then he only made two of everything so that the offspring is forced to have sex with each other also known as "incest" which is illegal in de US and the Netherlands alike  

Even better we are, according to the bible sons and daughters of murderers since Cain murdered his brother Abel and then had sex with his mother since Adam and Eve din't have any dauhgters. Personally I find the story of our creation in a supposedly holy book much more disturbing then the suppossed sin of homosexuality. 

Even more God has created man in his own image so I'm sorry God would have had homosexual tendensies aswell wouldn't he? 

Then you say that man hasn't the equippement to be with one of the same sex. Well I know from relliable sources that gay men an women cope quite well with the equipement they do have. and maybe it wasn't for nothing our pleasure parts of the genetals evolved outside of the human body instead in inside. 

Then you speak of the emotional bond but you know the thing with emotional bonds is that they aren´t all of the same cathegorie and not all of the same intensety. I as a man will have an atracction to women in my case yet if I have a daughter I won´t feel physical attraction towards her, if I see my mother I won´t feel a physical atraction towards her, Most women on the street I won´t feel a physical atraction towards them, yet if I have a girlfriend/wife I will feel a physical attraction towards her. That doesn't mean I don't love them I just love them in a different way then a (potential) partner. The same applies to gay people they feel different types of love for each man/woman. And may I remind you that even hate is a form of emotional bond you feel towards one just a negative one. 

In you're closing you say that it is not their right to have that decision universally condoned but they have: I quote from the declaration of Human Rights 

"(...) 

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.  

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.  

(...)" 

And yes I know the US didn't sine it but the rest of the free world and much of the less free world did. 

I find it interresting how you can compare pedophiles with homosexuals, the two have nothing alike! Pedophiles are troubled men and women that most often have had an abuse history themselves. I'm sorry but homosexuals haven't been abused had trauma's or anything ! They just feel a different atraction as opposed to having a deeper psychological problem which pedophiles have. 

Further more sex between homosexuals is consenual. sex with children ain't and you many straight sex isn't either (rape anyone?) so use real argument next time instead of saying there bad just because they are bad children do that not adults 

1 Yes they don't directly state they hate gay's that is the problem they state it via a detour "religion" because as I said,  somewhere it also says love thy neigbour and the bible states so much more rules yet only some are picked up on depending which one you need for you're cause. 

Then I wan't to acknowledge if it is true that the translations are indeed correct but that doesn't take away the fact that they where written down by human hands. Many stories are also older then christianity and even judaïsm and many stories are written down centuries later then they are thought of or happened. I ask you pick one hunderd people and let them form a line, say a small sentence in the first one's ear wait 'till it reaches the end of the line and see wich sentence comes out. or another one start some gossip a little thing now wait some time and see what that gossip has grown into it might have started out as holding hands and ends up having had sex. 

And no I don't no where state that gay's are born gay but in there development in puberty they just aquire the taste for the same sex, I know of many gays who have had girlfriends. what I dispute is that they had a choiche. 

You talk about the reconcilliation of sin yes it can be done and in the middle ages it was quite profitable aswell where you could buy of murder provided you had the money. 

You qoute Hitler "If you tell a lie, loud enough and long enough, the people will believe it" Well not suggesting jesus has anything in common with hitler but he was loud, twelve oppostels and a whole bunch of followers that is loud enough to spread a lie (not stating he did, just saying he could have) 

And how come that if anyone says today he is the son of god that you will riddicule him and put him away in an institution yet you all go to church to see someone who claimed to be the son of god. And don't say anything about the miracles here applies the gossip story I told earlier. 

And no I don't believe in god and I have thought about it a long time and I do not condem anyone who does believe in a god or 20 gods for that matter. I just hate the way Religion is misused for Apartheit, suppression, war and all that, Religion was ment to make for a good relation with god, the after life and your inner self yet it is now being used to feul war and hate (wether against another religion or gays or blacks or whatever.) 

Pedophiles rapist and murderers did not have a choiche most of them had to endure some form of abuse themselves they are people who need medical attention and are in a way sad people, they are the creation of an unloving and unforgiving environment. They mostly did not have a choiche!