Messages By: onthefarm

She doesn't expect me to go to all the Mexican celebrations or hear all about or even love everything about her culture, nor do I expect her to love all about mine. But we have work in common, kids in common, moral values in common, we like the same kind of movies, the same kind of food, and we both have a weight problem and hate exercise. She doesn't think I should feel guilty because I don't love all things Mexican. Couldn't you substitute gay for the ethnicities and have a good relationship without agreeing?

Only you will answer for your life. Only they will answer for theirs. I wouldn't be too worried about whether or not the guy in the cell next to me was guilty when I'm going to be facing the judge myself! You can argue God and Bible until you drop, but many will think your opinion foolish regardless of your position. It's best to know for yourself, worry about your own final judgement, and do all that you can to live up to what you believe is good and right and pure and just....however you define it.

I believe these are all sins: murder, stealing, homosexuality, adultery, gluttony, gossip, telling lies, getting drunk,....but I have no trouble avoiding murder or homosexuality (not even tempted)...but glutton is a whole different ballgame--that's where I'm tempted BIGTIME! I was a fat baby, struggled with weight my whole life...maybe I was just born with fat genes....but gluttony is still wrong and I'm wrong when I overindulge at the buffet.

I Cor. 2:14 "But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. I all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can't understand us at all. How could they? For "Who can know what the Lord is thinking? Who can give him counsel?" But we can understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ." SO, you Christians who are arguing with nonChristians are wasting your breath. You can quote all the bible you want, but if they don't believe in it, your argument won't be valid to them...you'll just sound judgemental and pious. Instead, let's accept that we struggle with our own faults and sins, and have yet to struggle with those for which we presently feel no guilt but will be revealed to us in the future. Leave the revelations to God, and spend your time talking to Him instead of them! about this issue!

Just because someone you love consents to participate in what you do, it's ok? So, on that line of logic, if your partner agrees to do drugs with you, doing drugs is ok? Or, if your partner agrees to go out and help you murder someone, since you love one another and consent to participate together in the act, the act is ok? NO, i'm not comparing homosexuality to murder, so don't go there...I'm comparing the line of thinking that if someone you love agrees to participate then what you do tobether is ok because they agreed...I used the ridiculous analagy to point out the falacy of that line of logic. I have many desires to do many things that are wrong to do, some stronger than others, but I am responsible for denying myself those pleasures that are wrong, even though it is uncomfortable, even though I may find someone I love to do it with me, even though it causes me anguish to deny myself. For you, your pleasure is homosexuality. For a straight person it might be adultery, or for me it might be something that society generally doesn't even consider sin, like overeating...but each of these things that are for us a great temptation (even though others may not experience the same attraction to that act) are the "self" against which we must struggle in order to become more as we should be. We all have things we struggle against....I can no more put you down for being tempted in the area of sexuality than I can put down the little child who is tempted to steal a piece of candy, or the old lady who is tempted to gossip, or the angry man who is tempted to murder, or the...you get the point...none of our temptations are our fault---it's our response to those temptations that matters. And our response to failure of someone else in dealing with their temptations should be tempered with our our own humility when we realize how poorly we ourselves deal with the things (large or small) that are tempting to us. Just because I don't share your temptation does not mean I don't have my own that is equally compelling to me as yours is to you. I can label the act as a sin, but I cannot throw a stone at the sinner because I would most definitely deserve to be the next one in line for stoning because of my own sins! As for the many mentions on the board about Christians....in my view I am not higher or lower than any other person because I label myself Christian. I am simply forgiven and accept that I am forgiven, and have made a committment to try my very best to avoid all things that are labeled as sin. As to how I decide what is or isn't sin, I refer to the bible and rely on communication with God to reveal to me those things that are sins. Learning my rules for living is my responsibility--between me and God. I must guard against choosing rules I like and avoiding those I don't like, but earnestly desire to know God's will. Herein lies the true struggle of the Christian life. You can not learn from me what the rules for your life are. If you want to live as a Christian you must search the bible and seek God's heart and will for yourself. If you do not want to live as a Christian, then you need not worry about what the bible says or listen to any warnings or rules the Christians expound. Unfortunately, and I think this perhaps causes much friction and even the idea of Christians being pious, too many Christians feel that it will make a difference for a person who does not wish to be a Christian to live according to Christian rules or avoid sinning. According to my belief, if you are not a Christian it won't matter a bit how you live your life when it's time for your eternity to begin. I believe this because I accept the teaching of the bible that we cannot be saved by our deeds, but only by acceptance of Jesus Christ (which I consider to be becoming a Christian). So, I do not judge you. I have an opinion about whether or not homosexuality is a sin, but I consider it your responsibility to discover the truth of this for yourself, and totally between you and God to determine whether your deeds are good in His sight. I also understand that if you are not a Christian it won't matter to you, and that you have the choice of deciding that as well. I hope I've done an adequate job of explaining how I can have a firm opinion and belief, a set of standards to which I believe I must conform, and call myself Christian and also know that you may well consider all of my beliefs to be foolish, which is your choice. I must also state that I believe that I am required by my Christianity to care about you and love you as Christ would have loved you even if you do not agree with me, and whether or not you do what I believe to be sinful things. Am I judging? No, I'm saying that it is my understanding that those particular things are against the law. I'm not a policeman or a judge...I have no power or authority over you, and only the responsibility of MY abiding by what I believe to be the law . It's ok for me to say what I believe the law to be, and it's ok for you to decide what your choices will be. Naturally, as all of us do, I would prefer that you believe as I do...but I am not allowed to hate you because you don't...in fact, I am required to love you anyway! I hope that in your belief system you agree with me on at least on that one point--that we have a responsibility to our human race to extend to the best of our ability a maximum of love and kindness.

I am saying that I have a responsibility to decide what is right or wrong for ME, and I have made a decision about homosexuality. Obviously, your decision is different than mine, but making that decision is your responsibility. Arguing about what the bible says will not be how either of us reach the truth--for me, it will be studying the bible and communicating with God through prayer because I am a Christian. If you, too, are a Christian you will have to search for yourself as well. If you are not a Christian, it doesn't matter to you what the bible says, so an argument about what the bible says is useless in that case as well. I have found the answer for ME on the issue of homosexuality (though I am still searching for answers about other things)...you must find the answer for YOU. And as we search for our own answers for the issues of our own lives, we must do our utmost understand that each of us has our own searches, struggles, and faults --and because of that understanding allow others to find their own way without casting stones. It isn't my business what you and God (if you include him in your decisions) decide is right for your life. My business is following what I believe the laws for MY life are! No amount of arguing about what the bible says will find the answers for anyone.

You argue that consent equals rightness. The analogies were to illustrate that mutual consent seemed to me to be a week argument for the rightness of homosexuality. I suppose I was hoping to press you to dig deeper ...probably hoping you would come up lacking and then agree with me! We do like people to think our way, don't we!

I didn't say they should. I said I probably hoped they would and that that would lead them to agree with me. No dumping. I stated my belief and agreed that they must also reach their own conclusions. I have as much right to my opinion and I feel they have to theirs, but that doesn't keep me from wishing they'd agree with me. Is that dumping?

Consent does rule out the evil of coercion, but does not rule out the possiblity that the act itself iself is either good or bad.

--My morning went like this from the husband: "Well, hell, you let me sleep too late." Then that was followed with, "well, I guess I won't wear my good sweatshirt--it's still dirty--guess I'll have to wear this one." "Who left the toilet paper roll empty? Damn I have to do everything that gets done!" From the grown son: "Why'd you wait so long to wake me up? Is dad still in the shower? When is he goin to learn to take a shower that takes less than 30 minutes?" From husband, "Did you pick up my medicine yesterday? Well, it's a good thing. That was my last pill."" What am I gonna have for breakfast?...Same old thing, sure would be nice to have something hot for a change." At noon, with son: "Can you type that letter over and get it in the mail this afternoon? Thanks." "How long you gonna leave those clothes in the washer, anyway? They were there this morning." "Why did you shut down the computer like that. Don't you know how much easier it will be if you just shut down each program separately? No wonder it's so slow.." (each of them have their own alarm clocks, the computer belongs to me, and both of them know how to do their own laundry and find or fix their own breakfast, just as I do before I leave for work. Every morning is such a barrage of put-downs and gripes that I've learned to try to get out the door before either is fully awake just to avoid all their negativity. I choose to eat my yogurt at my desk at work and get my coffee there as well. In the evenings, if I'm watching TV and husband walks in, he'll likely say, "What the crap is that?" and change the channel automatically...usually to sci-fi or auto shows that I hate, so I end up going to the bedroom alone --again--to avoid the blood & guts on TV. Are they controlling or just rude? I see no way out, with 2 of them and one of me, if I want to still live there.