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Messages By: mtnlady1

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October 20, 2005, 12:25 pm PDT

You Go Girl!

Quote From: moondragon

Recently I have become a Chrstian and now attend church regularly.  I have struggled to understand what God wants for me, and how this pertains to my orientation.  There was a book written by E.T. Sundby, "Calling the Rainbow Nation Home" which has really helped me understand my love of God even though I am gay.  So much of the bible has been misinterpreted over the years due to inaccurate trasnlation into other languages.  I think people need to understand that it is honestly not a choice. I did not choose to be gay.  Why would I want to be the black sheep of the family?   

John 3:16 (NIV)                                                                                                   

  

 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

  

 

 

  

 

Amen. Unfortunately well meaning, but terribly wrong and misinformed folks are going to try and talk you out of that most precious gift that God has given you - i.e. your salvation. They will try and tell you that your living in 'sin' and misguided and worse. Don't believe them. The Pharisees were convinced Jesus was from satan. After they killed Jesus they went after His followers - all in the name of their legalistic 'religious' doctrine. Times don't change do they? But take heart! Doctrines may change but God doesn't.

  

 

 

  

 

As for what "sin" is - well here again we have every opinion under the sun. Thanks the Son of God told us Himself what sin is and is not.

  

 

 

  

 

Matthew 22:37-40 (NIV) 

  

 

"Love the Lord God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is: Love your neighbor as yourself.  All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

  

 

 

  

 

Simply put, we are to love God first, and then we are to love others, as we love ourselves. If we embrace and follow this belief, we are following God’s will for our lives and we are not living in sin.  The Apostle Paul put it this way:

  

 

 

  

 

Galatians 5:14 (Amplified)

  

 

“For the whole law [concerning human relationships] is complied with in one precept. You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.”

  

 

 

  

 

I'm glad you read the book "Calling the Rainbow Nation Home" (E T Sundby). How you heard about it is beyond me because it just came out and hardly a 'big name' production. But that book will change your life! You must have heard about it through www.gaychurch.org. Awesome site that will change your life.

  

 

 

  

 

I can't recommend that book or web site enough. Go to the section titled "Gay and Christian?". You will see what the Scriptures REALLY DO SAY about homosexuality and why we believe it is NOT a sin. Praise God for you and for your journey - and for finding a wonderful Christian church that accepts you and loves you for who God made you to be. Gay and Christian. :)

  

  

  

 

 
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October 20, 2005, 12:36 pm PDT

Oh boy...

Quote From: mlhaworth

Educate YOURSELF before speaking!  How do you think all these heterosexual women are contracting the AIDS virus?  Through being gay themselves or getting it from their spouse who has passed it on to them.  Where have you been? 

Do you honestly believe that being gay gives you AIDS? Please, please learn more about AIDS before you put yourself and others at risk. I did a quick google search and found this site http://www.avert.org/ I'm sure there are hundreds of other sites like it where you can find good information. 

  

AIDS is not a gay disease. In fact one of the lowest 'at risk' groups there are is the lesbian population.  

  

Maybe this help help... 

  

"HIV is a virus and is found in the blood and the sexual fluids of an infected person, and in the breast milk of an infected woman. HIV transmission occurs when sufficient of these fluids get inside someone else's body. There are various ways a person can become infected with HIV

Ways in which you can be infected with HIV :
  • Unprotected sexual intercourse with an infected person
    Sexual intercourse without a condom is risky, because the virus, which is present in an infected person's sexual fluids, can pass directly into the body of their partner. This is true for unprotected vaginal and anal sex. Oral sex carries a lower risk, but again HIV transmission can occur here if a condom is not used - for example, if one partner has bleeding gums or an open cut, however small, in their mouth.
  • Contact with an infected person's blood
    If sufficient blood from an infected person enters the body of an uninfected person then it can pass on the virus.
  • From mother to child
    HIV can be transmitted from an infected woman to her baby during pregnancy, delivery and breastfeeding. There are special drugs that can greatly reduce the chances of this happening, but they are unavailable in much of the developing world.
  • Use of infected blood products
    Many people in the past have been infected with HIV by the use of blood transfusions and blood products which were contaminated with the virus - in hospitals, for example. In much of the world this is no longer a risk, as blood donations are routinely tested.
  • Injecting drugs
    People who use illegal injected drugs are also vulnerable to HIV infection. In many parts of the world, often because it is illegal to possess them, injecting equipment or works are shared. A tiny amount of blood can transmit HIV, and can be injected directly into the bloodstream with the drugs.
It is not possible to become infected with HIV through :
  • sharing crockery and cutlery
  • insect / animal bites
  • touching, hugging or shaking hands
  • eating food prepared by someone with HIV
  • toilet seats 
 
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October 20, 2005, 1:06 pm PDT

Wrong

Quote From: ddsmommy

Anjela, 

      I think that you are just trying to cry predjudice because people won't except your life style but I sure don't see you accepting anybody elses life style!  All homosexuals have an agenda.  They are all out there crying "poor poor me!" and want everyone to feel sorry for THEIR CHOICE in life!  And yes, it is a CHOICE.  Read your Bible and what God has to say about it and it is VERY clear!  Your sister is wrong that if you accepted Jesus that you can live any way you feel like living and you will just go to heaven.  You obviously never truly wanted to surrender your ENTIRE life to Christ because if you did you could have changed a long time ago and be heterosexual today in your actions.  You have always been heterosexual inside.  God did not make you that way.  Does He love you, Of course!  He loves me too even while I was a sinner and not saved.  I chose to trust in Christ and fully surrender my entire life to him and HE changed me once I repented of my sin and asked Him to save me and change my life.  You can turn over a new leaf  by yourself over and over but ultimately you will fail every time because you can't do it on your own.  So until you are willing to admit to God that homosexuality is a sin and nothing less just like alcoholism and stealing are sins, you will never be saved and you will never be free from this sin in your life.  Don't get me wrong, your homosexuality is no worse of a sin than any other sin that anyone has ever committed.  I would be happy to give you the numerous scriptures that I know are blatently against homosexuality.  God is a God of love but He is also a just God!  I think your father dying might have had something to do with your choices.  Maybe not.  There is usually some trauma that happened in the homosexuals life.  I do not hate homosexuals, just the sin.  I love every person that God has ever created.  But God gives us all a choice whether to choose Him and His way or to go our own way.  The Bible even says that after a certain time that He will give homosexuals over to a debased mind.  Meaning He will leave you to be in the life style you choose and He will not bother you further.  Yes, you will die in your sin and spend the rest of eternity in Hell burning for eternity.  Jesus doesn't want you there so please choose Him before it is too late!  He loves you and is waiting patiently.  

"until you are willing to admit to God that homosexuality is a sin and nothing less just like alcoholism and stealing are sins, you will never be saved and you will never be free from this sin in your life." 

  

I don't agree at all. Never be saved? So are you saying that those that drink and steal can't be saved either? When did the Blood of Jesus become so selective or impotent? 

  

Also Scripture does not say that "He will give homosexuals over to a debased mind". It says in Romans that certain people had (first) turned away from God and THEN they turned away from what was NATURAL (Greek word "phusikos") to that which was UNNATURAL to them. For an excellent write up on this passage in Romans I highly suggest your read the article found on the www.gaychurch.org web site titled "What is Natural?" It's located in the section of the site titled "Gay and Christian?" This web site is a sister site with Justin's web site (Justin was on the show). The link to the Gay and Christian section is below along with a link to the "What is Natural?" article. 

  

Gay and Christian?  

http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/gay_and_christian_yes.htm  

  

"What is Natural?" http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/calling_the_rainbow_nation_home/7d_gac_clobber_passages_what_is_natural.htm  

  

And more great articles on salvation and being gay... 

http://www.gaychurch.org/The_Word/Salvation/whosoever.htm  

http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/calling_the_rainbow_nation_home/3_gac_are_homesexuals_condemned_to_hell.htm  

  

In the "Gay and Christian?" section you will find every scripture used by some against homosexuals discussed. I suggest you read through these articles. You will find that your opinion (doctrine) is only one and that Christians interpret these passages differently. 

  

And yes there are other Christians out there who believe that gays are part of God's creation too. At last count there were over 3,550 Gay "Welcoming" congregations out there. Again I cite the church directory on the www.gaychurch.org web site as proof of this. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 1:30 pm PDT

Doctrines and opinions

When it comes right down to it folks interpret Scripture differently. Nothing ever changes. The Pharisees used Scripture to frame their opinion of what the Messiah would be like and they got Jesus. They killed Jesus. 

  

The Jewish Christians used Scripture to substantuate their belief that the Gospel was only for the Jews. And the Holy Spirit took care of that issue. First bringing the "Good News" to the Samaritans, then to the Eunuchs (see the story of Philip) and then to the Gentiles. God has a way of getting us to see things in a new light. 

  

I could go on and on throughout history. We paint God into a box and then the Holy Spirit proves how narrow minded we are. An excellent article on the subject can be found on the web site www.gaychurch.org in the section titled "Gay and Christian?" The article is titled "Prejudice in the Church": 

  

Little do many in the church know that God is doing a mighty work in the gay community today. A great revival has been sweeping through our community and there are over 3,550 churches now. Amazing! Regardles of opinions and misinterpretations of Scripture GOD is on the move and is bringing the gay community in - JUST AS THEY ARE. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 1:45 pm PDT

Amen!

Quote From: rlanthier

Funny you should use that word - as in "justification by faith" 

The references in Leviticus must be taken all of a piece with Levitical law. There's no picking and choosing. Unless you're an orthodox Jew, it doesn't apply to you. The Romans I reference concludes with an admonition not to judge. An analysis  of the original text in Greek, suggests that what was unnatural about the men lying with other men was that men in question were heterosexual. 

It's amazing to me that knowledgeable (?) Christians attempt to use Levitical Law against homosexuals. First and foremost - WE AREN'T UNDER THE LAW ANYMORE. We could go on from there but why? If we want to argue over the interpretation of Levitical Law then you have to discuss ALL the Law. And if you want to put yourself back under the bondage of the Levitical Law again then you - according to Paul himself - have made the cross "of no affect". So why do Christians want to place themselves (or others?) under the bondage of the Levitical Law again? Don't they respect and revere the work Christ did for them (and us?) on the cross? Don't they know they are attacking the very Body of Christ (read JESUS!) Himself when they attack other brothers and sisters in Christ (who just happen to be different than them!)? Very, very sad.

  

 

 

  

 

Because I don’t like to retype or reuse other peoples work I will simply keep posting links to great articles that address these issues and here’s another one titled “The Levitical Law” and another good one discusses the sin of Sodom titled “Sodom and Gomorrah”. Both are, again, found in the Justin’s sister site www.gaychurch.org in the section titled “Gay and Christian?”. Links to these articles are provided below:

  

 

 

  

 

Levitical Law

  

 

http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/calling_the_rainbow_nation_home/7b_gac_clobber%20passages_the_levitical_law.htm

  

 

 

  

 

Sodom and Gomorrah

  

 

http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/calling_the_rainbow_nation_home/7a_gac_clobber_passages_sodom_and_gomorrah.htm

  

 

 
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October 21, 2005, 8:51 am PDT

Evil?

Quote From: mommyjenna

 Well, the psychologist, here Mr. Lion would disagree with you - that babies and young children DO have sexual tendencies.

I personally disagree with that.

I have no doubt that gay people experienced feelings that they were 'different' when they were children.  However, i think a lot of heterosexual children also have these feelings of being different.  Even Jeffrey Dalmer knew at a young age that he was different.   He had feelings during science class later in high school where he wanted to eat the animal (frog I think) that they were disecting.  Now instead of rejecting that thought, like most would,  he dwelt on it and allowed it to fester.  He then began fantasising more and more about relationships with men - picking up a hitchhiker, killing him and then eating him.  Well, this fantasy came into reality one night and after that there was no stopping him.

I hope there is no anger at the above example.  It IS an extreme one, but it goes to show how one thought that is wrong can lead to actions if we dwell on those inpure thoughts instead of rejecting them.  I do understand that homosexuals do not feel it is their 'choice' to be gay because they have been believing and thinking for many, many years about the subject.

Many of the gays here say they are Christian, yet we hetero Christians get slammed for quoting the Bible, which I don't understand.  Anyway, there is a scripture that illustrates the above point very well. 

Ephesians 6:12

For our struggle is no against flesh and blood but against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

How does the evil one fight against us?  In our minds. 


The problem Jenna is that you believe homosexuality to be a sin and we do not. Have you ever studied the Scriptures closely that some condemn gays with? I would be more than happy to discuss these Scriptures one by one with you or anyone. I have no problem quoting the Bible - it's when it's misquoted that I have a problem with it. More than misquoted - misquoted to the harm of others. You, and others like you, have no idea how much harm you are doing the Body of Christ by falsly accusing gay people of being sinners and going to hell. Your very actions and hateful words drive away most gay folks from seeking the very Christ they need. You are the Pharisees of our age.
 
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October 21, 2005, 8:59 am PDT

"God is not gay " ?

Quote From: melgibson

I just want to say this to you - we are created in God's image.  God is not gay and therefore it is sad that you and so many others think this will save you.  It is not to say that God does not love you - but he does not condone what you are doing.  We are all given FREE WILL - not a "gay gene".  I am pleased you had a good relation with your father/family.  But maybe you had bad expriences with cousins/kids at school - I would not even begin to guess - but your lifestyle is a sin.   

I will pray for you 

MG 

God is not hetrosexual either... God is both male and female. We are all made in the image of God. 

 
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October 21, 2005, 2:04 pm PDT

The Image of God

Quote From: anothervio

I don't think anyone here is really qualified to say what Gods will or Sexual preference is.
My point is that we are all made in the image of God. Black, white, male, female, hetro, gay - all are made in God's image. We are all God's children. Even more than that - when we become a Christian we are ONE in Christ. These things that society uses to seperate and divide ourselves into neat little categories are pure silliness in the eyes of God. God sees us as one family, one people. When you attack me - a fellow Christian - you are attacking Christ Himself.
 
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October 21, 2005, 2:16 pm PDT

Romans - is what is Natural to you Natural to everyone else?

Quote From: mommyjenna

 Do you worship the God of the Bible?  If yes, how do you reconcile Romans 1:24-32?

And if you believe in the Bible, where does it ever say that he created some people gay?


Romans 1:21-31 

  

  

The key to these passages is the word "natural". But first the story for those who are not familier with it.  In these versus we see that there is a group of people who turn away from God. From this point on their lives begin to spiral downward and they commit all sorts of sins. One of which is turning from what is “natural” for them to that which is “unnatural”.

   

 

The issue here revolves around the word “natural” which is derived from two Greek words phusikos (Strong's #5446) and phusis (Strong's #5449). These words literally mean that which is a persons "natural disposition" and something that comes "instinctively" to them. In other words, it is who you are naturally; without reprogramming, counseling, or any other form of behavioral modification that attempts to change your behavior to that which society has deemed acceptable.

   

 

You ask any gay person what their natural sexual orientation is and they won’t even hesitate to tell you that being gay is. The problem is of course when you discuss the issue with a heterosexual person. Unfortunately many times people who belong to the majority tend to think of themselves as the ‘norm’ and therefore what is ‘natural’. Everyone else falls into another category altogether and in some cases is considered even slightly abnormal. 

 

  

This point was illustrated best to me by a story my Grandmother used to tell me. In her day all the children were expected to be right handed. Anything else was considered slightly abnormal and therefore undesirable. Because of this if children showed a natural propensity to use their left hand they were repeatedly encouraged and then required to use their right hand. It wasn’t until years later when they realized that roughly ten percent of all children were naturally left handed that there were calls for this practice to stop. In spite of this, some time passed before the more forward thinking schools allowed left handed children to be who they were naturally without attempting to change their writing habits. Now day’s left-handed children are seen as just another everyday variation.

  

Our sexual orientation is no different. The vast majority of our population is predominately heterosexual in nature  (approx. 90-95%) with the remaining minority being homosexual (approx. 5-10%). Researchers have found that these percentages remain pretty much the same across all racial and cultural lines. Varying only by the amount of tolerance or intolerance a particular society has for such differences.  

 

Another key point in Paul’s story is that the people turned away from God FIRST and THEN began living a sinful ‘lifestyle’. If homosexuality is a sin. By this description we should see that every homosexual person first turned away from God and THEN became a homosexual. Yet I’ve seen everything but. I’ve met numerous Christians who were gay. Some were saved before they came to grips with their sexuality. Some were saved after they “came out”. There is no common denominator. I can only conclude that ones sexual orientation has nothing to do with ones relationship with God. 

  

Another important point to keep in mind is what Jesus taught us concerning those who have ‘fallen away’ from God. That being that those who are separated from God will envariably exhibit the full gambit of bad spiritual “fruit” in keeping with who they serve. Jesus said that “a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.” (Matthew 7:18) Therefore “by their fruits you will know them.” (Matthew 7:20)  

  

  

When I met my first Christian gay woman I knew something was a miss with the Church’s doctrine concerning homosexuals. Here standing before me was a person who professed Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and exhibited in their life the full plethoria of “good fruit” that Paul described in Galatians 5:22-23. How could this be? According to Jesus good fruit could not be produced on such a “bad tree”. If homosexuality was a terrible sin that separated us from God it was physically and spiritually impossible for this woman to be standing before me and yet she was. 

  

 

Only one conclusion remained. That being that ones sexual orientation was not, in and of itself, a sin. It was instead just another variation in God’s grand scheme of diversity and as such we should not reject it merely because it was different. 

 

Note: There is a much more thorough discussion of Romans and the other 'anti-gay' passages on the web site www.gaychurch.org which is a sister site of Justin's. Check out the section "Gay and Christian?" there you will find 3 excellent series of articles on the matter. One from E T Sundby the author of "Calling the Rainbow Nation Home" another from Justin the author of the web site truthsetfree.com and another from Bruce Lowe a retired (straight) Baptist minister and a theological school teacher. 

 
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October 21, 2005, 2:21 pm PDT

Scriptures

Quote From: mommyjenna

 Yes, I've studied the scriptures and they've been posted here a few times by people but no responses on them.  We just keep hearing the same thing about 'hate' 'close-minded' etc.

I also have a problem with the Bible being taken out of context.  One verse in particular posted by a pro-gay advocate was from Romans which basically says "every man must decide for himself."  Now, this verse was grossly taken out of context because what Paul was referring to was whether or not to eat meat. 

I really don't think I am doing any harm to gay people by pointing out scriptures that do pertain to them.  I do not want to see them believing lies and manipulations.  There are no hateful words whatsoever and I am resenting the name calling.

If I were Muslim and here stating that I loved people and wanted them to know that I believed their actions were wrong according to the Koran, you people would not be jumping down my throat the way you are.  The fact of the matter is, it is perfectly 'socially acceptable' to out and out bash Christians who quote scripture.  As long as you're a Christian and not quoting any scripture, you're fine on this board, but quote scripture and you're looked at as some sort of venomous hater, which is definitely not the case at all.

"I also have a problem with the Bible being taken out of context. "  

  

-- So do I. 

  

" We just keep hearing the same thing about 'hate' 'close-minded' etc." 

  

-- How else do you describe folks who believe their intrepretation of Scripture is the only intrepreation out there? Worse yet, if you or someone else believes Scripture is saying something else then you are labeled as "believing lies and manipulations" or taking Scriptures "out of context" 

  

" Yes, I've studied the scriptures and they've been posted here a few times by people but no responses on them." 

  

-- Perhaps there are no responses because people have things to do and it takes awhile for their comments to be posted. Or worse yet - they believe you are close minded and only label others with differing opinions as believing in "lies and manipulations". Learning new things requires honest dialog and an open mind. 

  

Jenna if you want to discuss the Scriptures I have no problem with that. Where do you want to begin? The story of Sodom or in the New Testament? Your choice. 

 

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