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Messages By: kjhamilton

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April 21, 2006, 9:48 am PDT

opting out of parenthood

 I have to disagree with Dr Phil on the subject of consenting adults (even young ones) not being able to discuss and set the terms for the sexual part of their relationship.  When I was 19 yrs old (I am 46 yrs old now) I dated long term a young man and we discussed before we became sexually active (I sat down with him at my insistence since I was the one who could become pregnant) what would happen in case of unplanned pregancy due to contraception failure.  We were both in college and financially and emotinally unable to care for a child should a preganancy occur in spite of our use of contraception. One thing we both agreed on--we both wanted marriage eventually, but no children. 

We both decided that consistent with our beliefs and I decided that my personal knoweldge of biology basics (I was in nursing school and understood that at conception their exists the potential for human life to develop but that human life had not begun because cells at that point are undifferentiated) that our best answer would be to recognize the signs of early pregnancy should our birth control fail and have an abortion within the first few weeks of any pregnancy that was unplanned.  My boyfriend agreed.  Only then did we have an intimate relationship.  My parents had given me as a child, as I grew up, increased  opportunities for both personal decision making and responsibility for those decisions and I think many parents today seek to overprotect their children --those young adults are then thrust into a world where they have little experience with making decisions or living with the outcomes of those decisions.  No wonder they cannot make good ones.  They have no basis for or skill for handling what is a very grown up relationship (a sexual relationship).

There are people who differ in their view, but  my partner and I  both felt that it was not right to bring a baby into the world within the context of little financial assets and ways to care for a child (we had no right to expect our parents would want to be primary caretakers again for any children we produced and were explicitly told so) . Also, to bring a baby  into a potential couple's life when neither of them want children in their futures is not a good idea for any concerned. If only one person wants that baby, thenthe person who wants the baby must be prepared to accept full responsiblity for any child produce and not count on help from an unwilling partner if that falls through. To have a baby and place it for adoption seemed odd to me--why bring one more child into the world where there are plenty of children already who need  homes and who are already here.  My partner and I did not feel that was  a good option either.  I  also think it is unrealistic to expect grown people to live a celibate life just because they don't want children in their future.

 Contraception failed in our case.
An early and legal abortion was the route we took  within the first 5 -6 weeks or so of pregnancy.  I do not advocate using abortion as simply an ongoing means of birth control, but also do not advocate bringing unwanted children into the world.  I do not hate children, but neither of us (all though we are not married to each other/we were for several years many years after this incident ) has ever had children.  In fact, as soon as I could find a physician who would perform a tubal ligation I had one at the age of 27.  As for my decision, it was made soberly and thoughtfully and I can truthfully say that I never had any doubt or misgivings.

  If anothers  views are different, then maybe the choices they make will be different in a case like this--maybe they wouldn't be.  I had no sleepless nights about my decision--but I had thought through my actions long before the worst case scenario happened and talked with my partner before we began any sexual relations.  No sexual relations would have taken place if we had not done so and we had not reached agreement--young as we were we had the intellecutal capacity to make a decision that was right for us. 

 I truly believe that the rights of the woman bearing the child are the rights that are paramount.  It has just been with the advent of modern medicine/antibiotics/newer medical procedures that having a baby has been approached in the way it seems to be approached now.  I remember my grandmother telling me that babies in the early part of the century (she was born in 1908) were not looked upon as a "blessed" event as much as something that could potentially take the life of the mother as death rates at the time of birth and infant mortality were so high.  This "baby as blessing" is a modern concept.  We need to really think through these things in modern society and come to better understanding as to rgihts and responsibilities.

The problem today is sex is dissociated from  responsible relationships and is often begun in childhood (teen years)--it is now considered just part of the night's "events" after a date.  Increasingly in our society,  children are seldom left to their own devices (within limits) so they increasingly have less and less opportunity to lay down a foundation of skills that encourage accountability and responsibility. Young people are not given many freedoms or advancing freedoms as they can handle them as children or much responsibility  for their decisions,so it is no surprise that this couple whose parents probably in good faith sheltered then and couriered them from activitiy to activtity as kids (but did not allow them to experience or learn through trials and the mistakes that increased personal freedom brings),  the skills necessary to make good choices as young adults.

 Middle class parents seek to shelter their kids  from perceive threats and harm rather than  promote their independence and critical thinking skills (which will in the long run help keep them from harm in much better ways), and you have young adults who are incapable of setting paramenters for relationships where they can discuss (and each can be held accountable) for the decisions they make. 

In this case in particular, if both parties truly agreed on the terms at the outset, then I think that the young woman has no claim on this young man.  But only, if the facts and decisions were mutual and it was explicitly said that  there will be no children produced from this relationship and contingency plans were agreed upon if conception took place.  If one person is hiding something (the state of their fertility or their ambivalence about terminating a remotely possible preganancy) or if the state of their fertility is truly unknown---then that changes the obligation.  If I were the young man, I would personally do one of two things---approach the mother and agree to relinquish all parental claim on this child (give the mother access to any family history of disease for future medical needs) and formalize this claim in court allowing her to go on with her and her child's life as if this were much like the case of artificial insemination.  This man is not father material and no one can force anyone to "be a good parent".   If these things were not explicitly discussed, he's responsible for at least monetary support of his offspring.  For it is the child that suffers in this type of ambiguity.

  If it is unclear  as to what each party brought to the bedroom in terms of openly discussed contingency plans or they were simply not discussed in case this woman's "sterility" changed( as it apparently did), If nothing was explicitly settled, the young man owes it to the child (not the mother--the child is innocent)  and I agree then  with Dr Phil--the young man is responsible for having protected himself and should minimally provide adequate child support for his offspring as without explicit protection from pregnancy  the situation is typically in this day and time is "caveat emptor"--buyer beware.
 
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April 21, 2006, 11:27 am PDT

why

Quote From: jai149

I have just recently just found out that I am pregnant with my third child.  My husband and I had discussed the possibility of a third but had said we'd talk about it "later".  My husband knew that I wasnt on any form of contraception, but was happy for us to have sex whenever he wanted to.  Now that I am pregnant he is saying that it is my fault and that this baby is going to be my responability in full.  Not to ask him to do a thing.  Since we had our two gorgeous kids his life hasnt changed a bit.  I do all the nappy changing, feeding, bathing - the list is endless.  He hasnt even gotten up once during the night and our kids are 3 and 2.  He still gets to go out with his friends, socialises and I am always left at home.  I dont mind this, but is it too much to ask for the occasionally hand.  I have an ultrasound next week and he wont even come to it with me.  it really hurts me that he is rejecting this child.  i have told him to get used to the idea or he knows where the door is.  I love my husband very much, but to me his behavior is a deal breaker.  Am I right in my thinking?  What I should I be doing to make this work out for the best?  And to make it easier for my other two children - My 3 year old is already picking up on what his father is saying and keeps telling me he doesnt want  a baby.  I just know what to do. 
 Why do you continue to make babies with someone who obviously doesn't want to care for them?  I just don't understand why women subject themselves to this kind of person.  Why would you think his behavior is going to change just because you have  a 3rd child?  He appears tohave little interest in taking day to day care of the first two children?
 
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May 5, 2006, 11:18 am PDT

Chronic migraineur (20-30 million in th U.S.)

Quote From: meli_infl

Wow, I'm so surprised, so many fibro. sufferers!  My 22 y.o. daughter and I both have fibro., I am 42 y.o.   It's heartbreaking for me, to watch my precious girl suffer!  Dr. Phil, how 'bout a show on chronic pain!?  Obviously we need it!!  

Melissa in FL  

 Hi, (Compare migraine (20-30 Mill) with high blood pressure  where 40 million Americans have this--iboth common illnesses--and in migriane the patient is often  "undergound" a lot as people  often feel no help is not available or they will lose their jobs if their company finds out they are ill)

I have had migraine (they are not simply headaches although they involve horrrible head pain) and after 13 yrs of daily migraine and it's stoke like auras, etc I was forced to leave a six figure income job for Social Security disability.  I am unusual, in that I receive my Soc within 4 months of initial application.  I am fortunate--no children and a husband who is very well educated with a good salary  that affords me good care and less income worries.  These migriane attacks are disabiling many times--have been hospitalized more than 10 times over the past 13 yrs to treat flare-ups--they are not a take a Tylenol headache.  They are a neurological problem and within the past 4-5 yrs the first prospective study has been done (JAMA published) that shows that people who have frequent attacks (w/ aura) have in their brains a proccess that may be cumulative in causing damage to the tissues of the brain .  Migraine is not a discreet, painful, but benign entity--it can be something entirely different.

However,  if you suffer migraine symptomos and pain you can not give up either hope and you must if you have chronic pain, become active in your own care and be your own advocate.  My best advise is to get yourself to a university -based specialist  for care.  Be prepared to travel and fit that into your budget.

 You will even w/ the best of insurances, pay out of pocket for things such as travel to see specialists if you live out of town.  We make trade-offs in life, and I would rather have  pain-reduced/symptom reduced days/better life quality --- that means for us as a family-- doing without frequent mall trips, driving more basic cars, living in smaller homes,etc  which  gives us spending that allows for better medical care.  We can't afford to have a high maintainence lifestyle when so much of med care is out-of -pocket now. and I have a chronic health problem.

University-based pain clinics are on the cutting edge of pain care.  I fly to Columbia Univ./NYC from  VA every 4months and am followed monthly by my family practice doctor who works together with my specialist.  My treatment program includes medications (in my case long acting narcotics which have to be managed carefully and with great understanding via the patient, Dr. and pharmacist) and I have also done PT in the past (now I walk for exercise) and my treatment plan includes seeing a psychologist in my home city who deals specifically w/ chronic pain patient every month.  It is unfair to your family to expect them to carry this problem and act as your therapist--essential to help you and your family cope.

After 13 yrs of poor control, my life is not perfect now, but in the past 4 years I have felt better than the previousl 13 yrs before (when my pain went from once every week or so to a daily basis around 1993).  The past 2 years have been some of my "best years" since childhood in terms of pain reductions and feeling well.

 I can do volunteer worknow ,as this type of work can be done on a flexible schedule > I can now with treatment, be of use to my family and friends and enjoy their company.  I have had to "give up the old life",--that life no longer exists and I am a different person now.   But in it's place, I have a different, but productive life. and a content life with much happiness.

My weeks are like this--even w/ a good treatment plan and good compliance to my plan of treatment, I still have days where pain "breaks through" in a hard way.  I treat it acutely and aggressively to get back to a more "normal" state--I have to be very structured about getting the right balance of activity to rest each week.  I am not at the point where I know from day to day when the problem will flare and am unreliable for paid  work, where a daily fixed schedule is involved,

Once I decided in my mind to let go off old ideas--the idea that work is only useful if your are paid, I decided that I could do volunteer/advocacy work that was as important as a any paying job, but would take into consideration my limitations and  new strengths.

Google the American Pain Society for chronic pain and you will learn so much.  Also, if you want to know more about the realities of migraine pain in particular, I would recommend an international site being built in an ongoing way via pahysicians, clinicians, migraine patients to help us learn more about the subject   www.migriane-aura.org is a great site.  MAGNUM (in the U.S.) also a greta Website that can be reached  via Google has worked to help change perceptions on migraine and works to help migraineurs thru advococy to get legislation passage that increases funding for migraine research, and disability law legislation. 

I worked for years as a pharmaceutical rep for Big Pharma" and know the ins and outs of healthcare as well as any lay person can---you have to grit your teeth, work thru your daily pain, and advocate for yourself.  Tihs is DIY medicine--no one cares and will take care of you, but you.  So find, similar people of like condition and work your tail off to get yourself a better quality of life.

Good luck and if I can be of help to anyone, please I'm here.  Kathryn Hamilton :)
 
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May 5, 2006, 11:24 am PDT

migraine again

Quote From: kjhamilton

 Hi, (Compare migraine (20-30 Mill) with high blood pressure  where 40 million Americans have this--iboth common illnesses--and in migriane the patient is often  "undergound" a lot as people  often feel no help is not available or they will lose their jobs if their company finds out they are ill)

I have had migraine (they are not simply headaches although they involve horrrible head pain) and after 13 yrs of daily migraine and it's stoke like auras, etc I was forced to leave a six figure income job for Social Security disability.  I am unusual, in that I receive my Soc within 4 months of initial application.  I am fortunate--no children and a husband who is very well educated with a good salary  that affords me good care and less income worries.  These migriane attacks are disabiling many times--have been hospitalized more than 10 times over the past 13 yrs to treat flare-ups--they are not a take a Tylenol headache.  They are a neurological problem and within the past 4-5 yrs the first prospective study has been done (JAMA published) that shows that people who have frequent attacks (w/ aura) have in their brains a proccess that may be cumulative in causing damage to the tissues of the brain .  Migraine is not a discreet, painful, but benign entity--it can be something entirely different.

However,  if you suffer migraine symptomos and pain you can not give up either hope and you must if you have chronic pain, become active in your own care and be your own advocate.  My best advise is to get yourself to a university -based specialist  for care.  Be prepared to travel and fit that into your budget.

 You will even w/ the best of insurances, pay out of pocket for things such as travel to see specialists if you live out of town.  We make trade-offs in life, and I would rather have  pain-reduced/symptom reduced days/better life quality --- that means for us as a family-- doing without frequent mall trips, driving more basic cars, living in smaller homes,etc  which  gives us spending that allows for better medical care.  We can't afford to have a high maintainence lifestyle when so much of med care is out-of -pocket now. and I have a chronic health problem.

University-based pain clinics are on the cutting edge of pain care.  I fly to Columbia Univ./NYC from  VA every 4months and am followed monthly by my family practice doctor who works together with my specialist.  My treatment program includes medications (in my case long acting narcotics which have to be managed carefully and with great understanding via the patient, Dr. and pharmacist) and I have also done PT in the past (now I walk for exercise) and my treatment plan includes seeing a psychologist in my home city who deals specifically w/ chronic pain patient every month.  It is unfair to your family to expect them to carry this problem and act as your therapist--essential to help you and your family cope.

After 13 yrs of poor control, my life is not perfect now, but in the past 4 years I have felt better than the previousl 13 yrs before (when my pain went from once every week or so to a daily basis around 1993).  The past 2 years have been some of my "best years" since childhood in terms of pain reductions and feeling well.

 I can do volunteer worknow ,as this type of work can be done on a flexible schedule > I can now with treatment, be of use to my family and friends and enjoy their company.  I have had to "give up the old life",--that life no longer exists and I am a different person now.   But in it's place, I have a different, but productive life. and a content life with much happiness.

My weeks are like this--even w/ a good treatment plan and good compliance to my plan of treatment, I still have days where pain "breaks through" in a hard way.  I treat it acutely and aggressively to get back to a more "normal" state--I have to be very structured about getting the right balance of activity to rest each week.  I am not at the point where I know from day to day when the problem will flare and am unreliable for paid  work, where a daily fixed schedule is involved,

Once I decided in my mind to let go off old ideas--the idea that work is only useful if your are paid, I decided that I could do volunteer/advocacy work that was as important as a any paying job, but would take into consideration my limitations and  new strengths.

Google the American Pain Society for chronic pain and you will learn so much.  Also, if you want to know more about the realities of migraine pain in particular, I would recommend an international site being built in an ongoing way via pahysicians, clinicians, migraine patients to help us learn more about the subject   www.migriane-aura.org is a great site.  MAGNUM (in the U.S.) also a greta Website that can be reached  via Google has worked to help change perceptions on migraine and works to help migraineurs thru advococy to get legislation passage that increases funding for migraine research, and disability law legislation. 

I worked for years as a pharmaceutical rep for Big Pharma" and know the ins and outs of healthcare as well as any lay person can---you have to grit your teeth, work thru your daily pain, and advocate for yourself.  Tihs is DIY medicine--no one cares and will take care of you, but you.  So find, similar people of like condition and work your tail off to get yourself a better quality of life.

Good luck and if I can be of help to anyone, please I'm here.  Kathryn Hamilton :)
 Hi again all,
Sorry-syntax and grammar suffer w/ migraine problems (I am having one now).  My spellling is off on some words  --migraine is not spelled "migriane" as I did in my previous post.  Sorry for the error and use the first spelling for any Googles or searches.  Thanks.  Kathryn
 
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May 5, 2006, 7:53 pm PDT

No energy

Quote From: mthroftwo

Hi, I read alot of posts in this section...  I myself have chronic back pain, I was hit by a drunk driver almost 4 years ago, she didn't have car ins. and my back was broken along with other injuries... well, 10 months after that, I was hit head on again in another car accident while sitting at a red light!!  I was VERY LUCKY that I was not paralized when my back was initially broken, it was a week before my wedding, it was my batchelorette party, and we were on our way to meet my future sister in law.  But the second accident is what really did the long term damage...  Nothing else was broken, or seen, but the pain increased continuously to the point where I am now on dissability, I take huge amounts of pain meds... I am now only 33, I was 29 when the accident initially happened.  I have two boys, one 15 and the other 10, both have had a very difficult time with my ex-husband who has now totally abandoned them.  He married a woman who was horrible before my accident, I was in the process of getting remarried.  Here's the thing that affected me and upset me the MOST from all of this, other then the constant financial problems and pain that i suffere every day, and it is true when they say you usually end up alone... and when you don't SEE the damage it is very hard for people to understand it.  But the hardest thing for me was when I finally woke up in the hospital and realized over a week had gone by, and what exactly happend to me, I was more happy that last week in the hospital then since I have been out.  I thought when I woke up WOW, I have been given another chance!!!   My doctor said I would be back to normal within a year, even with the rods and screws in my back...  but I thought, mabye NOW all the fighting and crap will stop... Life is too short for all this junk!!!  Unfortunately, my ex and his wife went to GREAT lengths to use this against me, constantly trying to say that I was unfit, that I was incoherent with my meds, that I would OD  which was ALL TOTALLY UNTRUE... I may take alot of meds, but they don't affect me in anyway that people would think.   Like I said, my ex ended up just walking away and I guess since they couldn't convince anyone that I was unfit, they decided they didn't want anything to do with the kids at all anymore... but believe me, I was NOT just automatically given the benifit of the doubt from anyone!!!  I had trouble with everyone, family, friends...  I did get married about 6 months later, but it was a big mistake.  I found out he had a HUGE addiction to online pronography, but I think because I was so afraid that I wouldn't find anyone else with my condition and having two kids, and NO INCOME except child support anymore... you can't count on child support!!  I married him anyway, we did get a divorce in less then two years though... so now, two divorces...  I feel like I am either completely taken advantage of, or totally ignored.   

Right now, my older son is living with his grandparents...  Mainly because of so much stress with depression and so much turmoil in my childrens lives since my first divorce, my youngest son is ADHD, he is very close to me, but has lost his father, and ALL of his fathers side of the family has also completely abandoned him.  It breaks my heart... I want to do SO MUCH MORE for him, the physical limitations I have keep me from doing "boys" things with him... he has problems in school, he constantly worries that something else is going to happen to me.  I am now with someone else, but as usual, I am dependent on him and I can't STAND that!!  He is NOT a very good role model for my son, and he isn't ANYTHING like he portrayed himself to be to me when we first met either.  I HATE the fact that I feel like my life is directed by depending on other people, I WANT to depend on myself, I WANT to be able to control my own life with my children, but there is always something in my way...  it is so depressing, and frustrating and the chronic pain, that is causing all of this is just killing me emotionally, mentally, and physically.  I have done pretty much everything the doctors recommend, somethings they want to hold back from because of my young age, but there isn't anything left at this point...  and pain pills are just not working, I HATE taking pills anyway!!  I really wish I had someone to talk to, my doctor keeps suggesting I go to counseling, but I just can't get motivated, as many doctors I have to see now, along with my son and his problems... I just have NO ENERGY for it.  So, if anyone out there needs to vent or talk about things I would be more then happy to listen and be able to talk to someone who truely understands!!!  Thanks all, and I know there are many people out there worse then me, but no matter what, we have all had our lives change completely, and I am having a very hard time getting used to this new lifestyle...  It is just sometimes too difficult to handle and deal with.   

Thanks for listening... 

 I am sorry--you seem tohave a lot of problems other than just pain related.  Please find the energy (you have found strength to write to t his forum) to contact  local mental health center (nonprofit county-city) and get into see someone.  You must summon inner strength.  You seem to look to others to care for you and you don't seem to want that in your life.  We start by caring for and about ourselves. Only then can we care for our families.

 Before you try and sort out family problems, set a time frame goal (short term 3 month goal) that I will pull myself together, make an appt w/ a mental health professional and my family doc, and then I would sit down with pad/paper and  identify areas in your life that you need to work on  to begin anew as a person.  The old you is gone--that person cannot return as you now have medical conditions that have and are life altering---you have grieved for that person and we tend to flounder and make poor decisions when we don't try and move on.  You must begin to search in your heart for the inner and outer ways of thinking and acting that you want to learn in order to become the "best possible" person you can be now.

.  Get to that counselor and your doctor (family doc)--you need to look at your situation realistically --you are a different person now and will need to re-learn and learn new skills that can help you live a new life.  Being a competent mom (it is not enough to just love kids) cannot take place until you get help you need to learn skills that will enable you to regain a family life.  You may never work full time again--you may have to accept that your children may need to be in a situation (grandparents home)etc where they can grow up in stability.  Even if you can't take care of them as you used to,--this does not mean you can't be part of their lives- and you can still be their mom ---once you know and get your own life together.  Please find that energy.  Tomorrow--practice--, get out of bed, put on something nice to wear and do your hair , makeup--even if you don't feel like it--just that much normalcy helps. Go out for coffee or to the library, or park.  Just get out of what has become a daily destructive pattern.   Whenyou see the Dr. you cannot simply fall apart. during the interview if you want to be taken seriously.  So practice what you want to say (brievity is good) before you go--you don't want to waste one precious moment of professional time--it is your time to get help.  Remember,  Drs and therapists are only human too, and cannot be expected to deal well with you if you do not come somewhat  focused and prepared to know what you want to do to improve the quality of your life.

 Practice now and before you go.  Dress neatly, speak firmly but do not get hysterical w/ your doc( and do not overwhelm them with your entire life situation--boil it down to basics), and you will be treated well, I am sure.  I wish you so much luck.  Your new self will still be you, but realistic and ready to take care of yourelf and help to be part of your family.  You have to try--there is no one but you who can take that first step.  I'm rooting for you.   Regards, Kathryn
 
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October 7, 2006, 12:52 pm PDT

Sponsorship

 Hi, (Given that no one can know the particulars of everyone's situation)
If you find yourself living paycheck to paycheck first you must pull yourself /thoughts together on paper  and see what your own resources are.  List out everything you own, how much goods you have, furniture, cars, homes, savings, clothes, etc.  There is no toothfairy and you have slim odds of winning in the lottery.  Put that $1 in a jar instead of buying lottery tickets.  You will be $1 ahead and the lottery will have lost a dollar :) .

You must also list your bills and all money's owed on paper.. Look at exactly what you spend your money on  weekly  and determine what you need to have all of your family's needs met and some of their wants..$savings and no debt.  =Freedom.  Having enough in the bank makes you safer and freer. You need to  have enough money that you can live a reduced, but not impoversished life for a year at least. should your income (job) go away for some reason.  Then you need to save for your  own future /old age before you save for a child's college.  They can always take out and pay back student loans.  You may not have that kind of time.
 
You must look at the personal decisions you have made--what  has helped, what you can do differently or better --or not repeat. Discuss wht is appropriate w/ your kids and tell them you would like to learn to make different and more well thought thru choices.

Finally, you must take your family plan and look at what is going on in the outside world.  You live as part of your community, state and country and as a global citizen.  The outside world has changed in 30 years.  Education that would have been ok in  1964 or even 1974,  may not be enough to even bring you to a table where a lot of people are looking for good jobs that pay well. I have a friend w/ a genetics Ph.d who is looking for work---everyone will be in your shoes unless they open their eyes, look around, do what it takes to compete.

Still no guarantees--if you need to get more education--get more.  Go to your local communtiy college and let them help you w/ fainacial aid. You need to get skilled work. We need folks that can plumb our house as well as college grads.  Tradespeople even need school and formal training now.  If you fail to get the education you need you will never bring home a living wage. There is school money (and healthcare for the very poor or very wealthy, but you have to go mostly with student loans if you are middle calss.)

You must also look at the  forces running "for and against " you in our American type of society. Your own life choices are not made in a bubble, but your choice interact with the choices our society has made every day.  If you want change--get involved politically and vote.

  Beginning with the Reagan years, Americans  have voted to build for themselves a "starved out gov't"/ low tax /low wage society. 

Because we are a low tax nation that has removed most of it's safety nets , you have to prepare you and your kids for a world where you provide your own safety net

 My parents' generation bootstraps were often pulled up by, the GI Bill, Federal Student Loan programs, FHA/VA housing, etc --the programs helped them upgrade their skills/education and  helped them get ownership of a modest home, and helped them move them from the working class to the middle class.  My parents and their cohorts still had to do the "heavy llifting" of going back to school, learning a trade etc, but the U.S. citizenery thought this was how you built a middle class society. All that changed beginningin the Reagon years.  The least skilled of of U.S. citizens took the hit first, and now even middle class families are going broke.


  Every choice you make (and teach your kids to make by example)  is essential to how you will get along in the world because if you are going to eat and live indoors you must make good and careful choices.  Bad luck happens to everyone. It has happened to me.  You have to be very careful  and act thoughtfully and teach your kids thru your example.
Commit not to repeat (teach your kids) your mistakes.  Write down what you want for yourself and kid in the future and then make an action plan as to how to get there. Talk to local friends family you admire and ask them how they became successful.  success doesn't equal being a millionaire, but equals being financially secure enough that the worries day-today are cared for and you can focus on doing the things you and your family like to do.  Also, remember, to lend a hand if you take a hand.  I have had to do that--we all have something to give that makes us unique and useful in this world.

 A plan for financial/job may be (for example)---"in the outside world today, there is a shortage of healthcare provders like nurses, therefore I am going to apply to a 1 yr practical nursing program.to upgrade my skills  Once I get a job, I will move towards getting and R.N. while working. to increase my skills and my paycheck. How: ( this is your sponsor)-- I will go to the campus or hospital nursing school and talk with the admissions office, then the student grant and loan programs and see about services/grants that will help me support my family while I go to school.
A  budget plan may be: Cable television (even basic) is not a necessity in our home.  This one bill I can do away with and save the $t to start my savings account. This will make my family more secure. How(sponsor) Call the cable co. then use the library check to out music / DVDs and use public parks/rec  and family acitivitie that involve  etc instead of leisure that costs $$ but a higher time committment together.

Watch OUt!  In the U.S. we have loansharks in the form of payday lenders at the local  shopping center who charge astronomical interest.  There are banks in countires like India (Grammen Bank) that  do "microlending"  for useful and worthy customers.Even if we could get microlending in this country, money should not be handed over until the family builds a " family living and spending and economic health" plan  to the bank or lender just like businesses do when they need a business loan. T

hese loans of up to several thousand $ could be used to stabilize a family and help it reaestablish firm footing.  To me, this would be a good process (microlending) for wealthy peole to health poor people get back ont heir feet and get the skills they need.  Middle and upper class children borrow or are given "grants" by their parents.  That is microlending too--just informal  We don't all have wealthy families..  Why not take i"small lending" out of the hands of storefront payday lenders, couple it w/creditunions  seervices  for real public service . Help  families in formingo  basic family financial fitness/stability.

IIf I were a "microlender"  I would have you look at your life like it was a business and determine the good things you have done with your  familiy finances and the plan you will follow to help your family get back on firm footing financially.   Those  agreed upon actions would be put in a contract given to the lender who would require you  to use the borrowed money and pay it back at  very low interest so it canbe used when the next family needs help.

 Life in the U.S. is inherently risky enough where we live in a nation of have's and have-not's.  The day is definitely gone where someone could pay for a househould and plan for old age if you only have a high school diploma or GED.  Every job that pays requires skills. That gap is growing wider --not closing---with housing unaffordable, for many,  lack of a baseline national health insurance , jobs being offshored,... I is important that you look and see what the real situation is in America and then understand that even if you do everything "right"--anything can go wrong.  Several things can go wrong at the same time..
 

If someone simply sponsored you without helping you "go to school" to learn how to handle the "the business of YOUR FAMILY" the bailout would work. one  time and the creditors for now would be off your back  .

But, down the road you will once again find yourself in a financial mess if you keep the mentality of a "paycheck to paycheck" as the only possible way to live.  It's your family--you need to be active and willing to change and grow.  Best of luck.
 
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October 7, 2006, 1:00 pm PDT

Decisions that land you in trouble

Quote From: thinkoutloud

Please don't be so quick to judge people for ending up in desperate financial situations.  It happens faster and easier than you can imagine. 

I have always been a very good money manager, putting myself through college, saving from my salary, etc.  My divorce from my ex-husband put me back many, many steps in financial terms.  I am now very happily remarried, but my husband has to pay $400/week in child support (for one child!!) to his ex-wife.  He only earns $65,000 a year!  This is not a bad salary by any means, but by the time we've paid for health insurance for ourselves and our four children (my two, his by his first wife, and our one together), his ex wife gets HALF of his take-home pay!  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for child support (and wish I could get some from my ex), but this is ridiculous. His ex-wife doesn't even need it, but saves every single penny we give her.  That's great for her, but we have a family of five that also needs to survive.  We have taken this to the courts (and spent way more than we can afford on an attorney), but there's nothing we can do to change this because my husband agreed to it in the beginning.  (He did that because he wanted to do the right thing, and he didn't want his ex to have to work and  put the kid in daycare.  But now the kid is in school all day and my husband's ex DOES work because she chooses to.) 

Because of this, we are sinking further and further into debt.  We are both doing everything we can to bring in extra money, but it's never enough.  We are desperate and there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  If we don't pay the child support, my husband will be thrown in jail.  If we DO pay the child support, we can't afford the basics for the rest of us. 

Put yourself in a situation like this first.  Then see if you're so quick to judge.

Hi,
65K is not much money  for a big family and I think if a person can't support their first family is it really fair to ask their children from that first family (who did not have any choice in the matter) to "do without" just because you all decided to  form a 2nd union with each other and add another child to the mix.  If you have more kids than you can afford. you have to find a away to afford them.  I just don't understand why this is unfair or injustice.  Your husband just as you did with your first marriage,made a commitment to take care of his first children and you  did yours as well.  It's children who pay for this kind of decision making.
 
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October 17, 2006, 10:33 am PDT

we have to or are always forced to own our problems

Quote From: thinkoutloud

So is the child from the first marriage of more intrinsic worth than the other children? (Two of whom are older than that child, if, by your twisted logic, being born first is what somehow makes one count more.)

 

Besides, his ex-wife isn't even living off the child support AT ALL. THAT child will never do without.  She puts it all in the bank.  (If you had bothered to read my first posting you would have known that.) That's my point--child support should be the amount that is reasonable and necessary to support the child.  Not to drain the father and his family of all that they have.

 I read your entire message. Yes, you have a difficult situation of your own making.  Maybe you need to re-frame your problem and then do your best to work the  situation. You also put it out there on a message board  for comment. No child is "worth more" than another.  You also know that your comment is dodging the primary tissue in your family.

But you are grown up , well educated and knew that you were making new children with someone who had prior committments to a first family and could not in good conscience discharge his prior obligations. As you said, your husband was trying to "do the right thing" when he decided in court that he would support his very own!(wow, his very own!)children he made w/ his first wife by giving her adequate child support. Unless he kept the knowledge of his first family from you before you were married---you went into this marriage with the full knowledge ( even if you did not think entirely through the process/outcome) that his first and primary responsibility is for what he had already brought into this world. He is also (as you are) equally responsible for what you and he bring into the world anew.

 It's your logic that's flawed here and you are putting your problems on the selfish old ex-wife. You also had prior obligations before you and your husband married .Your  husband went to court and agreed to financially take care of his financial obilgation to his first family he was doing right by them--at least partially.  He cannot ever pay enough money to make up for the  destruction of these children's  family--children don't come equipped with adult minds .  They would most of the time prefer that they have their own mom and dad live with them at the same time in the same home--most children do not want part-time parents. In all but the most dire cases, it should be their right until the age of majority.

 I really think you husband should be praised for holding up his financial obligation and not encouraged to complain. 

 If he is going to hold up his end of at least the financial /as much of the other as he can because it was "the right thing to do" back before you all remarried and made a new family w/ new children, why is it not today still "the right thing to do"?  He can't now turn around and say that this is "not the right thing" just  because  he  and/or you feel  that there is not enough income to go around.  He sounds like an honorable man and he also knows every day that he and his first wife's split was intrinscally not good for his own children.

This is not a perfect analogy, but maybe one that can explain the logic behind it.  If you go out and purchase your new, first car and you totally wreck it - AND your first car is not paid off you have made a legally binding contract to pay for it fully. You even have an ethical  responsiblilty to pay  off the first , now wrecked car.  You cannot discharge your financial obligation to the car dealer/financer because you no longer have the use of the car--you still owe the debt.

You cannot stop making payments on the old car because you need or want to buy a new one now.  If you buy a 2nd new car, you are still obligated legally to finish paying off the one you wrecked. If your budget does not allow a new car before the wrecked one is paid off--you have to find extra work, cut back the budget, ride the bus--whatever, but in our  country you cannot discharge a debt simply because it has become burdensome or inconvienent to pay.

Children are not cars (it would be so much easier if they were objects instead of young humans w/ all the attendant fears, love, and hopes) so the logic is even more important that we take great care in not taking on more than we can afford.  When you planned your new family it  was surely in the back of your mind to plan an put into and good practice steps to make sure  that you can take care of any new committments because the old ones do not go away.

If you can afford additional children and want them , only then should you bring them into the world.  It is the ethical thing to do as children are not cars, but small beings that parents will have to give to for 25 or so years before the are truly indepndent and hopefull, ethically functioning members of society.  Your husband is showing his children how to be good persons by honoring his own obligations (even if it hurts a bit) and  he is teaching them that they must also  learn to honor  their own obligations and committments --first small, then larger as they grow older. He is teaching by doing,not by telling.

I can use myself as an example--I have a chronic illness that requires even w/ good insurance takes lots of our income as a couple (me and my husband) to help w/ medical care.  Although children might have been part of our wishes, I knew from my early 20s (I am 47 yrs old now) on that I could not affford without great sacrifice to have and care for even 1 child. Because it was unfair to a potential partner who might want a family, I dated men who were not desirous of having additional family. If they had children under college age I just "didn't go there". Why tempt yourself with a life you can't really handle?

 I would not have wanted a partner in my life who would not want to keep his obligations.  I was upfront  about my own problems  and my limitations  personal, financial, and professionally.
There is enough danger in daily living (we are a  country w/ few supports if something goes wrong) . For me it was unaffordable given my resources to try and have more than I could afford. Having any kids costs a lot ( I read recently that it takes an average  of 250K to get a child frome birth  thru college)--you complicate that even more when you add more family. I could not afford financially, emotionally  or in terms of stamina to live that much on the edge. But you decided as a couple that you could handle it

 I do not know your age, but one thing life teaches you in shovelfuls is that you are not entitled to everything  or anything (including a child )just because you want it and others have it.  The reality is now you have a family and to stabilize family life you may have to be willing to advance a 2nd career(yours) or do without some things. Life is a great equalizer for all of us. Once you accept that life is by it's nature unfair--you start to see thru and work your way to a way to live--my guess is there is a lot of underlying "current" in your happy marriage because you have yet to come to terms with the fact that you will always share your husband  financially and emotionally because he came from a previous marriage w/kids.

 If you all have had additional children then that means you have tnow got to learn  to live efficiently.   The books eventually  have to balance or you will destabilize all.  Start  with a good book  on the financial end of family life--Jane Bryant Quinn is one of the best writers for the average family on this subject.

  Your ex-husband's wife could be a billionaire and it would not change HIS obligations to his children and her .  Get over that. It's part of the picture because he agreed to them first.  He made a legally binding contract when wed his  first wife.  He and she discharged upon their divorce their contract--but children belong to both of them and they arranged the terms of caring for their children financially and in other ways.  He is equally responsible for his new kids, so he and you have to find a way to make things happen.

The ex-wife  could win the lottery, but if your husband is the straight up guy you say he is--he will choose to take care of his first kids' financial life and not accept his first wife's money even if she offered to let him off the hook.  His kids (and your current children) will" pay "every day just being part of a "blended" family because by its' very definition it is harder to make a life when you have obligations (personal and financial) to both households.

 It is harder for his children who will have to live w/out the relationship of a primary set of parents under one roof to interact daily.  that's gone for these kids--all of them in a way. It will be harder for yours too, as they have to share a father with divided obligations. What takes it's place can be rewarding if you will work at it. Life is not "fair" and blended families are harder--every relationship, business, anything  in life is harder to manage efficiently when you make it more complex . One wife /one husband /2 kids (no new marriages with new kids)--much less complicated and costly than what you have.

 It is by it's nature, very expensive to be divorced and remarried with kids, esp. if you have a modest income. Comes with the decision.  It's hard with a good, but modest income to afford to be a part of 2 households.  I know we can't afford to support 2 households. We did not put ourselves in that situation.

Reframe your thoughts. It's not all bad.  If  your husband's ex-his wife has done well financially, then I'm sure he couldn't be happier.  I would as a father of these first kids.  I t would  please me to know that my children might get some "extras' such as private school, remaining in their own home,  the experience  and gift of travel, money in the bank so they don't have to careen from crisis to crisis--all things he may not be able to afford  to make sure they have in their lives now that he and you have decided that  you want a family together. You know that your husband is a good and honest man who takes care of anything he puts on this Earth.  That is a good thing to know.

Whatever you think of his first wife---if she can give his children a stable home with adequate financial resources then she is in fact, helping him and you more than you know.  Poverty in America is housed mainly in homes where their is a female head of household w/ young children (no father in the home).

This has been a joint decision (2nd family) and you all have to as a couple figure out what combination of downsizing and increasing income/building wealth will keep your family going. It probably is not the ideal situation for a young mom to be at work if you have very small children, but you may ultimately need to get back into the workforce in some capacity if you cna't or don't want to downsize any further.  You have not only your own children, but all these children to consider now.




 

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