Messages By: waterlily

The main problem with MIL is that she always has to have someone to blame for her problems. No matter what she does, she can always justify it in a way that lets her off the hook. Example: she asked to have our older two kids (aged 6 and 4 at the time) overnight. We agreed and arranged to pick them up at 10.30 the next morning. When we arrived, our son told us that MIL had taken him with her to walk the dog, leaving our 4 yr old daughter at home alone. We hit the roof, and said that the children would not be allowed to sleepover again. MIL explained her actions, first by saying that she didn't think about it. I said that I need someone who thinks before they act to look after my kids. She then tried, "I did think about it; you have no idea. I agonised over the decision for half an hour, with the dog whining the whole time. I was torn between the dog and the kids, because I love them both." That's even worse, in my book. Why did she not take the 4 yr old? Because she wouldn't walk fast enough for the dog. What is worse, she told our son not to tell us, which proves that she knew it was wrong. The whole thing blew into a big drama, and MIL has hardly spoken to us since (our daughter is nearly 6). She refuses to see the children under our supervision, as she thinks that says we don't trust her. We told her we don't trust her, and she needs to prove that we can by seeing the children when we are there. I am not cutting her off over one incident. She will always be my husband's mother. There have been lots of times when she has acted irresponsibly, and she always talks her way out of it, instead of saying that she's sorry and actually changing her behaviour! All I can say is that we are a united front, I have a wonderful supportive husband. I wish she could see what a great family we have, and be a part of it instead of undermining and sabotaging it. As it stands, we have had to say that our marriage and our kids come first. If she endangers that unit, she is not welcome.

It is unfortunate that you & DIL didn't talk this through specifically before the birth - would you be in the room, etc. At least they got photos to show you. I understand your hurt. However, I have been on the other side of this. Not exactly the same - I never implied that MIL would be in the room; she assumed she would be there, as if it was her right. This was our third child, and we had a homebirth. My husband and I talked it over and decided that we wanted it to be just the two of us. He told his mother, and she was really offended. I said, "would you have wanted your mother-in-law there?" and she said, "no, but my mother-in-law is just awful" (so is mine, but that's another story). Anyway, we got our wish, but I ended up being rushed to hospital in an ambulance after. MIL turned up, barged into the room in the middle of a medical procedure (she's a nurse & pulled strings to be allowed in) and refused to leave when her son asked her to. I'm not saying any of this applies to you, but what I do want to say is: don't let it affect your relationship with the baby. It really isn't your right to be involved in that moment of birth. It would have been a wonderful privilege, but not a right. You have to respect that. My MIL has had nothing to do with the baby since, which is petty and ridiculous. It is not the child's fault. I hope you can let it go and focus on the time you have now. Maybe you could put yourself in her shoes ... did you have your MIL at your son's birth? I hope this helps.

Thanks. Yes, that is what I have been saying for the past couple of years. My MIL behaves just like a teen. There is a really long story to tell, maybe I should post it in sections, just to get it out of my system and let it go. We tried everything, believing that it was best for the kids to have a relationship with their grandmother. My mother lives in another city and so does my FIL. It's interesting that things got really bad after my in-laws split up. MIL was always difficult, the usual stuff you hear from DILs, making cutting remarks and telling us what to do. I wasn't the image of a DIL that she wanted, and she did everything she could to talk her son out of marrying me. All through that, FIL would come and smooth the waters, apologise and say she didn't mean it, please give her another chance. Sadly, their marriage ended (she was the archetypal controlling wife & he took the coward's way out and ran off with someone else). Ever since then, she has been impossible. Whatever happens, it is poor her the victim. I am sorry for her marriage break-up, just fed up with taking the flak for it. Our youngest child (#3) was born on the day her husband left, and MIL refuses to have anything to do with her. She says that every time she looks at her, she remembers him leaving. We tried to get her to spend time with each of the kids individually (supervised), for the kids' sake. Now, we have given up. She got into manipulating them against us (like she told my daughter to ask me every day for a month if she could sleep at MIL's place, because I would give in eventually). We very much see her as a toxic in-law. She told everyone that we have cut her off from her grandchildren, and that I have taken everything that she had left. I said she can see the kids whenever she wants, but only when myself or her son are present. She has chosen not to. Lots more to tell, but maybe another time. Thanks for the support and advice.

Close to tears ... I would be in tears. That is just not on. I am just new to these boards, so didn't follow your first round on this. It sounds like your conversation didn't get through. What I would do now is to say to MIL, calmly but directly, "you do not have the right to undermine my relationship with my daughter. You are not her Mom, I am. I want you to have a relationship with her, as her grandmother. But if you can't follow our rules about our children, you will be giving up that privilege." (or something along those lines). I would then stick to it. With regards to the delivery room, stick to your guns. It is your birth and will only give her the impression that she is somehow involved in bringing the child into the world (like a Mom would be). I say, be direct but keep your dignity. She is the one that is toxic, don't give her power over you. All the best.

Yes, I agree that you & the DIL's mother are equally grandparents. That is great that you had both mothers at your birth; we had neither. It is just what suits the individual. I personally don't see the delivery as about the grandparents, but rather about the parents. Once the baby has been delivered, I was happy to have both my mother and my MIL see grandbaby immediately. For the delivery, I see it as the mother's choice to be with people she feels comfortable with at a vulnerable and emotional time. DIL may be perfectly comfortable with you otherwise, just not in that situation? From what I hear from other MILs, it is pretty much universal that the son's mother feels like second-class to the wife's mother when it comes to the grandchildren. I would like my kids to have both grandmothers equal, but the truth in my case is that my mother is responsible with the kids & my MIL is not (my husband agrees with that, so it is not just my bias). For me, they are equal. If my mother did the things that MIL has done, she wouldn't see the kids either. Also, I have to say that my sister & I do complain about annoying things my mother does, but we feel we can just say it to her, being our own mother. Neither of us would say that to our MIL. That's the son's job ... and it doesn't mean he can't stand up to his wife, it means he is voicing a joint marital decision. Often I hear DILs getting the blame for whatever the son says, when he really does think that himself. In another post, you said the DILs need to get their mouths off their mother's tit; I think that applies to the sons in lots of cases. Be proud that you have raised your son to be independent and not a momma's boy. He is sticking by his wife, just as he should. With regards the grandchildren, I think that you need to negotiate with son & DIL together (and maybe her mother too?) ... you know, like a family meeting. Just be honest about how you feel, without accusing or confronting. Maybe it is all a misunderstanding, or maybe your DIL doesn't know how much you do like her. I know my MIL said that she had treated me like a daughter and couldn't understand what my problem was. All I can say is, if that is how she would treat a daughter, just as well she didn't have one.

In the first place, my MIL admits that she didn't cope well with her "empty nest". She has two sons and they were her life. Our problems really began when the younger one (BIL) left home. Up until then, all her energy was focussed on controlling his life. By her own description, she needs to be needed, so she likes people to be dependent on her. When her marriage was in trouble, her response to FIL was that he would never cope without her. Surprise, surprise, he set out to prove her wrong and they have been apart for two years (actually, it was true that he couldn't cope on his own, but he had a replacement all lined up ... and I am deeply sorry for MIL for all that pain, so don't mean to make it sound no big deal). Anyway, I guess the first difference with regards the kids was when MIL suggested that we go away on holiday and leave new baby with them (before they split). I said I would never leave a new baby with someone else unless I needed to (I was breastfeeding, too). I mean, an hour or two fine, but not a week. MIL was offended and said was I saying she was a bad mother, as she and FIL had left DH for a week when he was 6 months old with FIL's parents (who she can't stand, so that actually surprised me, but there you go). I said no, I wasn't saying she was a bad mother, just my personal opinion and I was the mother. From then, it became a case of "so, I don't know how to be a mother?" every time I disagreed with anything. That was annoying, but no big deal. I just kept saying, "that is our rule for our kids" or whatever. MIL and FIL still got to see the kids often, even over weekends. Much later, my son (baby #1) started school. They were doing a "keeping ourselves safe" project and one of the tasks was to complete the sentence "I feel unsafe when ..." We got called into school to explain why our son had said that he felt unsafe when left with Grace, who was a foreign student staying with my ILs. When asked why, he said Grace was lovely but just a kid like him (she was 14, but very immature for her age). We had no idea ILs were going out and leaving the kids (age 5 and 2.5) with Grace. I still don't get it, 3 years later, because MIL had asked us to have the kids (not us asking them to sit them) ... why ask if you are going out? So, DH asked them not to do it. MIL said she wouldn't do it again, but she did do it again and told our son not to tell us (which I see as irresponsible and manipulative). Meanwhile, ILs marriage started to fall apart. MIL started asking to have the kids more and more often. I thought it was like a comfort thing, and didn't mind at all. One day, FIL phoned to say could I please come and pick up daughter (baby #2, about 3 at the time) because he had to go out and MIL hadn't come back yet. I said I thought MIL had daughter, he said no she went out about 5 mins after I dropped her off. Again, MIL had asked to have her. I picked up our daughter and phoned later to let MIL know that I had her (in case she wondered where she was). MIL explained that FIL had never taken care of their sons, she had done all the work, so he could step up and do it now with grandchildren. Turned out she had been doing that a lot - asking for the kids and then going out, leaving them with FIL. Now, FIL is great and we don't have a problem with him being with the kids, but only if he wants to. I was at home and didn't need the kids to be looked after, and FIL was running a business from home, so only really watching them, not giving them his full attention. I just saw it as using the kids to get at him. DH talked to MIL about it, and she said she wouldn't do it again. Oh, and one other thing happened when I went with MIL on a walk to a seal colony. I had baby #2 in a backpack, and MIL was meant to be watching our son, about 3.5 yrs old at the time. We went separately at one point (we were in a whole group) and when we met up, I asked where our son was. MIL said he was with the other kids (who were all 12, 13, 14) and I looked out across the rocks and could see them all jumping from one rock to another amongst the seals, with waves washing up over the rocks. I just about had a heart-attack. When I went to climb out over the rocks to get him (he was having a great time), MIL said "no, no, I'll go. It's very wet and dangerous and you might slip" (but it was ok for my three year old son???!!!!) Sorry, sometimes I just don't get her. So, let me see, where did I get to? Yes, FIL announced that he was leaving for another woman (the rat) and we had baby #3 on the way. MIL laid a guilt trip on him about how unfair it was not to stay and see his son's new baby. So, FIL stayed until the day baby #3 was born, then left (that day). I had complications after the birth and nearly died, so DH and I weren't really paying attention to all the drama, and I guess MIL felt that we neglected her when she was devastated (we don't feel guilty, but I can see how hard that was for her). About a week after her birth, our new daughter got very sick. By midnight, she was unconscious and I was hysterical. I was still very ill myself. My mother held the baby while I got my shoes on and DH got the ambulance. MIL comes up to me when everyone else was busy and says "don't worry dear, this is just the baby blues, it's all part of it. You'll get over it." I just about slapped her (but didn't) and hissed "this is NOT the baby blues, my baby is UNCONSCIOUS." My friends say I should buy her one of those Tshirts "it's all about me". Our daughter survived (she had an infection; MIL didn't visit us once in hospital, but I was quite glad about that), but things with MIL went downhill from then. FIL moved in with his new woman in a different town and MIL has had nothing to do with our daughter since, saying she can't look at her without remembering that FIL left when she was born. With the older two, she said they were all she had left in the world but hardly visited or saw them at all. We invited her to things, but she didn't turn up. She would still ask to have them overnight, but only occasionally and only when she had nothing else to do. I don't really mind that if it is us asking her to have them (I mean, I don't expect her to drop her own plans to suit us) but you'd think she would make time to see her own grandchildren. Sometimes we would ask her to come to a school play and she would say "no, I am playing golf then". We thought it was best for the kids to see her & kept trying. We don't think so anymore. On the odd time that she did see them, she did everything she could to turn them against their grandfather. Like, she went out deliberately into the garden where they were playing and started to cry. The kids ran to her and asked what was wrong. She cried and cried and told them that FIL was so mean, had left her all alone forever and she had nothing (which isn't true) and she had always been nice to everyone and didn't deserve this (not that she does, but kids don't need to hear that). She also told DH that it was his fault that his dad left, because FIL would have listened to DH if he had tried to make him stay ... and when DH said that he couldn't deal with that then (I was in hospital with baby #3 as I described above), she said she was going home to kill herself. I did tell her off for that (I usually let DH talk to her if he thinks it's needed) because I think that's despicable to put that on your own son ... and she had no intention of suicide, just trying to manipulate him. Finally, the big thing (that I've told in another post), MIL asked to have the older two overnight (so I would think she would have arranged her life to fit them in for that night) and she left our 4 yr old alone at home, while she took the dog for a walk (with our 7 yr old). Apparently, the 4 yr old couldn't walk fast enough for her, or something. The worst with this and all the times we have had problems, MIL will make excuses and even lie, and always tells the kids not to tell us (but they do anyway, and recently she said that she doesn't want to see our son, because she feels so betrayed that he broke her confidence! He is 8 now and has been taught that you tell IMMEDIATELY if an adult says don't tell your parents). The home alone incident was the last straw. We said MIL could only see the kids under our supervision, which I think was very reasonable. She made a huge fuss and said that it was demeaning to be supervised, we obviously don't trust her (we don't) and so on. She just stopped seeing any of the kids at all. When she saw them by accident once, she walked right past them without saying hello. An elderly family friend thinks all this is very sad, and that it is all because of the marriage break-up. Actually, MIL was always awful to me but FIL would make excuses for her and smooth everything over. She is absolutely sweet and lovely to all her friends, so only her family sees the controlling and manipulating ... the friends have apparently said I must be the problem (well, it was MIL who told me that). The family friend set up a morning tea to "break the ice" last week. MIL came, but she was all dressed up like it was a fashion show and definitely not getting down on the floor to play with the kids! She was all polite and cheery in front of the family friends who were also there, but said not one word to me or to the kids. She talked to DH, but just about the weather and stuff. We have just moved into a new house, it was really obvious that she wanted to see the house, not sort anything out. So, we have decided to let her go. She says that I have taken her son away for her and now she has nothing (her other son lives in another town), but as I see it, she has thrown away her family with no good reason. Apparently, she told the family friend that she wants to be part of the family and a real grandmother again. I said she will have to apologise, accept responsibility for what she did (instead of saying "I don't know what I am supposed to have done" even though we have been really honest with her) and she will also have to prove that she can be trusted under our supervision before she is ever allowed to see them on her own again.

I would be concerned about two things. First, that your BF doesn't stand up for you. Second, that the MIL is so sweet and the FIL is so obnoxious. You know your BF and not everyone follows in their parents' footsteps, but I'd be making really really sure. Maybe this is how husbands treat their wives (and their sons' wives) in BF's family? Is that how you want to live for the rest of your life? Only you know how that fits with your relationship. My DH is nothing like his parents, but he was brought up to never question or criticise his mother. He wouldn't stand up for me until I said, "there are three of us in this relationship and one of them is your mother. One of us has to go". He has never let her away with anything since (she now hates me, so there is a price, but your own marriage has to come first). Good luck to you, I hope it works out. Remember that all these things will be magnified after you are married, so sort them out now.

We live by the rule that we both have to be able to stand tall, wherever we stand. What that means is that we look for a common ground where neither one of you is giving away too much of yourself, so you both get to stand tall. For example, if 15 days is too much for you, maybe you could agree to 10 days? That way, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but BF also gets to do his duty and enjoy time with his family. When my DH's parents split up, each one said that s/he had always had to do what the other one wanted and never got to do their own thing. Funny they both said that lol. Anyway, that taught us a big lesson. We always make sure that we make our decisions together and we can both live with what we decide. Not just live with it, but live well with it (not dying inside but doing it anyway). I hope this helps, it's just what works for us.

oh, yeah ... sorry to post like a maniac, but one more thing. You are definitely not being too sensitive. You have a right to your space, and everyone's idea of "space" is different.

I agree with some of what the other reply said, but not all. I agree that it is your responsibility as a parent to protect your child from anyone including another parent. I also agree that you should be honest and open. Where I disagree is this: your child's identity is tied to her perception of her parents (where she came from). Whether you like it or not, this is who her father is and that is a part of who she is. I have some experience with this, as our first two kids are adopted. Both come from teen mothers who made serious mistakes in their lives - and I don't mean getting pregnant. In spite of this, we never bad-mouth the birth-mothers EVER. We separate the behaviour from the person. We keep the focus on taking responsibility for your actions. I would do this with your daughter too: your father loves you and his behaviour doesn't change that fact. He has done some bad things (NOT he is a bad person) and now he is in jail. That is sad for you, because you love him, but it is the right place for him to be. Something like that, anyway. It is really important for you to be honest with your daughter. People are screwed up more by finding out that what they knew was a lie, than by knowing that their life isn't perfect. Tell her how it is. If you believe that her father is not a good influence in her life, tell her that. Tell her that you don't want her to get hurt and that you believe it is better for her not to have contact with her dad. The important thing is that what you say doesn't make her think that she will be bad, that it's "in her blood". That can happen without you meaning it. It was the case with my daughter's birth mother. She was adopted herself (an abandoned baby) and always believed that was how she would turn out. And she did. My daughter is only 6 so we will have to let you know in ten years' time, but we believe it has been right. She is a beautiful, happy, loving child with a great attitude to her life. We really put the emphasis on honesty and responsibility. We tell all the kids (we have 3, one biologically 2 yrs old, plus our 6 & 8 yr olds) that life is about choices and you have free will to be good or bad. Nothing in your blood makes you that way. One other thing, I grew up mostly without a father. He was abusive and bad in lots of ways, and I went with my mother from age 7. It wasn't hard for me to be without him, because I knew I was better off and it was the right choice. My sister was only a baby, so she never knew him at all. Because she was never told about my father's character, she romanticised about what kind of dad she had missed out on. She became promiscuous as a teen, seeking that male attention. I believe it was better for me to know the truth about my father (even if I had to learn it the hard way) than for my sister to be "protected" from knowing. Hope this helps, and good luck with talking to your daughter about this.