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Messages By: dramamama
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April 25, 2006, 8:32 am PDT
 Quote From: tekfan Thank you for your wise words. I think I get the analogy....but I still dont see how further counceling will help me. I dont want to remember...at least I dont want to force the issue. If the time comes when I have a revealing "flash back"...then I guess I will deal with it then. When I think of my past, and what I have done as an adult, I just get so angry at my mother. Is that fair? She is in happy place now....I know she feels guilt and will until she dies, but that is her issue to deal with however she feels fit. Is it really worth it for me to rehash it all and upset her???? What would I get out of doing that?? I would just feel so awful that I have made her upset. I have a problem hurting other people...which has made things difficult for me throughout my life. I need to learn to be honest about my feelings to people, even if it hurts them. I just dont want to start doing that with my mother. Yet I still have so much anger towards her. Do you know what I mean? I am not sure i am explaining myself well. Anyway, you say I have to "help the child who screamed to go home at night" but how do I do that? Is counceling the only way? I have gone that route and have seen different people and EVERYONE had something different to say. Comes in many forms...Rehashing it depends on what you are angry with her about. I would journal for awhile. Just sit down and write whatever comes to mind. Don't worry about how it sounds or what you say. A diary is for you anyway. You mom does have some accountability in this and it is not helping her to deny her the right to apologize and take responsiblity...having said that let me tell you what I did. I was abused the first time by a man in our church. He was not an important man himself but his wife was the financial secretary and my father was also a minister( not the head pastor however). This man (unbeknownst to me) had abused several other children in the church including my sister. It seemed to be a known thing but no one seemed to do anything about him. Therefore, the church was responsible, my parents were responsible, the Pastor and his staff were responsible, the wife was responsible, this man was the most responsible, and the parents of children who were abused and knew were responsible. I hold my mother most responsible in my case, because my sister went to her and told her what had happed to her (this was before mine encounter with the same man) and she didn't believe her or refused to ("You don't know what you are talking about"). My oldest sister had a young man expose himself to her at church and when my parents went to the Pastor he said there was nothing he could do. So it started with my oldest sister, went on to my middle sister, and passed on to me. And I think mom may have known about me. I had a breakdown soon after although it didn't seem directly related to this incident because I gave another reason for it, but I think it was after that I was sent to my grandmother's for a month. I don't really know. She hasn't said she knew or didn't. She just trys to downplay it. "He was just messing with you. Men do those things." and a load of other crap I hope she herself doesn't really believe.
Ok..sorry..getting lost....anyway...I decided to give my testimony in church once. My sister told my mom and she freaked. She was afraid for daddy's reputation. I understand that. That is why I chose to do it somewhere people didn't know him and I never connected his name with mine at all. I didn't want to tear apart their lives. I was just trying to get on with mine. The experience was good for me. I told the secret. And I helped others who had been through similar experiences. I spoke of forgiveness and not being bitter. I didn't mention places or names just my story. Anyway, when mom found out she freaked and called me..."What's going on with you?" I was horrified. I didn't want her or Daddy to know. I didn't want to burden them. I didn't want them to feel guilty. I didn't think they had done anything wrong at the time. I didn't think they knew at all. God knows I didn't tell them. I had just found out about my sisters and I was still in shock that there's was handled as it was. Everything I had believed was a lie. It was all so shocking and disconcerting. I listened to my mom try to justify this man and realized she was trying to justify herself. She felt guilty whether I wanted her to or not. It was so heartbreaking. I have always been so close with Mom and it hurt that she was hurting so much. So I told her "Mom, I didn't mean to hurt you or anyone. I had to do this. I did what I had to do." She didn't like it I am sure but she accepted it. I had thought of telling my father as my counselor had said I should. I had become the martyr for him. I didn't tell because I didn't want to hurt him and my family. I was 9 but I wasn't stupid. I also somehow knew my mom would not let me tell it and would never forgive me for doing so. Her response was she could never come to my church. That hurt me but I understood and accepted that. But then a couple of years later, she suggested that they come to our Easter service and they did. I was shocked that she suggested it but I felt like that was her peace pipe to me. So I accepted it. I will never tell my father. It would kill him. He could never handle it. He was an abused child from an alcoholic father and he still had issues he could never deal with. This would tear him apart. So I chose to end it there. I talk about it with people I trust but not everyone and never with anyone who would question my parents about it. That is out truce. I did some counseling in bits and pieces throughout the years. Some with professional counselors, some with books, and some with a diary or trusted friend (aka my husband). But my only caution to you is, don't let this drive you to insanity. If you need help then don't be afraid to ask for it. You have to decide what it is going to take for you to heal. Being angry with your mom is normal. But if you can swallow the anger and let it go then that is your choice. If you can't then you have to decide what then you will do. Many people have confronted abusers. I never did. By the time that I could he had died. I do not want to confront any of them. Two of the men are dead and the others I don't care to see or hear from. That is my choice. It is not worth it to me. I don't need it to heal. I don't care if they are sorry. I am sure they are not. I don't care if they suffer. That is of their own choosing. I wish them the best. I hope they find healing and peace for themselves but I don't choose to be a part of that. There is some anger in saying this of course. But there is no malice or hatred. The hatred is for the act and that they chose to do it not for them personally. We are all human and I don't know there past. I am not God and I don't have the right to sit in judgement on them. However, I refuse to not hold them accountable for their responsibility in my pain. I realize as a adult it is now my responsibility to heal for myself and my loved ones. That I am doing to the best of my ability. The rest is unimportant to me. My accomplishments are: 1. It is no longer so painful that I can't tell others what has happened. 2. I don't feel imprisoned by guilt. 3. I can love and love freely, forgive and forgive freely, and show compassion and do so freely. 4. I am a mature adult, not a child locked in my painful past. 5. I am not afraid to share my honest feelings in a mature manner. 6. I am not afraid to feel, to be loved, to be criticised, to have someone angry with me or dislike me. 7. I feel like a whole person not a person broken to pieces and controled by circumstances. 8. I laugh honestly, I love honestly, I am honestly happy and when I am not I am not hopelessly lost in those other feelings. 9. I am not constantly angry and I control my temper. It doesn't control me. 10. I am an actor not a reactor. That's all I can think of right now. But these things are important to me. I pray you will find whatever it is you need to do. No one can tell you what that is. You have to find it yourself. Counseling can help you do that. You are not wrong for not getting counseling yet. You will if and when you are ready, but don't throw it out before considering it seriously. That is all I advise. God bless you. Please feel free to ask more if you need to. I usually check the boards everyday. |
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April 25, 2006, 8:41 am PDT
Quote From: lookin4hlp I'm so sorry that you lost so much of your life. I know what you mean when you sometimes feel like a terrified child. I do at times, too. I am working through my healing and don't really have answers for you because this is all such complicated stuff. It seems you have to take things apart and work on one little thing to know that progress is possible to give yourself some hope. I know everything in our lives is connected, but if you see your entire past and issues as one thing, it becomes overwhelming. Why can't you get into therapy? A good pyschologist can provide guidance and support so you won't feel so alone. After everything your body has been through, it has been a focus for you and yet you need to also heal your spirit and inner self. Having a voice, feeling loved and cared for and respected are as important as having a healthy body. Sometimes I feel like the bad things that happened to me are all about my body and that I wish I could exist disconnected from my body, but that just isn't the way things are. You have survived so much and it is not too late to pull yourself up to a better, more satisfying life. I would urge you to search for a therapist. You are not alone with your feelings here. We won't need these old clunky bodies anymore. That's the way things are for now, but not forever. |
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April 25, 2006, 8:43 am PDT
Quote From: tekfan Thank you for your wise words. I think I get the analogy....but I still dont see how further counceling will help me. I dont want to remember...at least I dont want to force the issue. If the time comes when I have a revealing "flash back"...then I guess I will deal with it then. When I think of my past, and what I have done as an adult, I just get so angry at my mother. Is that fair? She is in happy place now....I know she feels guilt and will until she dies, but that is her issue to deal with however she feels fit. Is it really worth it for me to rehash it all and upset her???? What would I get out of doing that?? I would just feel so awful that I have made her upset. I have a problem hurting other people...which has made things difficult for me throughout my life. I need to learn to be honest about my feelings to people, even if it hurts them. I just dont want to start doing that with my mother. Yet I still have so much anger towards her. Do you know what I mean? I am not sure i am explaining myself well. Anyway, you say I have to "help the child who screamed to go home at night" but how do I do that? Is counceling the only way? I have gone that route and have seen different people and EVERYONE had something different to say. The wisdom was not my own, but you are still welcome. Glad I could help a little. |
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April 25, 2006, 8:50 am PDT
Quote From: djmatt I think I mentioned my wife and I dated for four years before we were married. I believe, or know that we had a profound mutual respect for each other. Our relationship was and is unique. I just feel guilty that I am a burden to her because of my illnesses. We have had our ups and downs. But we learned a lot about each other before we ever became intimate. We were like best friends...all the time, and just enjoyed talking for hours and hours. But we still had a lot to learn, but I think we were more acquainted than most couples prior to marriage, or intimacy.
We were so young, we shared all of our thoughts, dreams, etc. She has been and is an extraordinary woman. Beautiful, and wonderful. And I still tell her that, and still tell her that I love her daily.
I hope my earlier post did no harm, and I was in a hurry. I learned a lesson.
Our children, grandson, and the one on the way are our lives. I feel we did a good job despite my depression. I did my best to hide this from them until they were older. And they still don't know how suicidal I once was.
But they are the reason I am still alive. I could not, not could I put any of my loved ones through the pain of that. I could not take a chance of any of them feeling guilty or hurt. Despite how depressed I get, or what I may say I just could not put them through such pain.
We are all close, even my 18 year old son, who is a bit of a renegade, so-to-speak hugs me and tells me he loves me. He never gets into trouble, he just likes to have fun, and he stays away from alcohol, cigarettes and drugs. He has ADD, but deals with it pretty good, and is very musically talented. We play music together. We both play multiple instruments by ear.
Our children are so precious, and yes they grow up quick. But I spent every minute with mine possible, and still do.
Your intuitions are correct, if you do not allow a window of opportunity for anyone, then there are no doubts in your mind. I have said that if one is suspicious, but have nothing solid to put their finger on, close any windows of opportunity and see if the child's behavior changes.
Better go,
God bless and take care.
dj Question...this one always worries me. What do you do if you think it might happen with someone but hasn't yet? What do you do to prevent it in that situation? I mean someone who might but has no past history that you know of. They just seem well suspicious. I have a family member whose actions themselves don't seem wrong but I can't rule it out because my instincts won't let me rest. How do you identify the grooming process? You know the preparations to let your guard down with them, to earn your and your child's trust? This is a hard one because honestly even my husband would say I am nuts. The problem is I don't think I am. Right now I am avoiding any opportunities for the hasn't to become to late. This is hard to describe without mentioning names. Am I making sense? Am |
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April 25, 2006, 9:11 am PDT
Quote From: hisjewel i used to post here but i had to stop because someone came in that it was hard for me to come post here.............. maybe they are gone and maybe they aren't but i thought i would start posting for a while......... i am ashamed to ask this but do any of you struggle in doing things to yourself as a result from your sexual abuse? i just feel like i am alone in it. what makes me feel even worse is that i am a christian. i don't understand totally why i do what i do and i will try so hard not to but it seems i give in way to much.......... hmmmmmm ........ there are a lot of things that are so much better but when it comes to struggling with this it is hard........ the other things are also hard but i am conquiring them I eat. I am morbidly obese. And I hate it. But I eat when I am sad, happy, scared, pissed, whatever. I also pick at my cuticles until they bleed when I am stressed. Hurts like hell but I do it anyway. Have tried to stop several times. I am better about it than I used to be. There are other things I would rather not discuss as they are very private. I am a christian too. We all struggle. We are all human, christian or not. As christians our bodies are not our own but God's. That is hard to remember when they hurt so much.
I have talked with friends who were anorexic, bulimic, and cutters.I have friends who are promiscuious as I was. I have friends who drink, do drugs, whatever to kill the pain. What drives it? I think fear and pain.
Do you remember the Apostle Paul spoke of a thorn in his flesh? 2 Corinthians 12:7-10: "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But He said to me 'My grace is sufficient for you, my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, the I am strong."
Don't let it be your downfall. Let Him use it to raise you up! |
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April 25, 2006, 9:39 am PDT
Quote From: monica0442 I feel for anyone who has been raped. I was only molested once as a child but I can't forget it. My mom's fiance molested me when I had just turned eleven. Before then I was an innocent child, then I started smoking, getting in trouble with the law, and doing whatever it took to not look my mom in the eye. They had actually broke up about six months after the event because he touched one of my friends, even though she did not believe it. She found out what he did to me a couple of years ago but never talked to me and acted as though she had never heard it. I know my mom cared. I still have not got my relationship with my mom back, but I have became a stronger person. I am now going to college to become a social worker so that I can help girls like us learn to have a voice. Please, if you have a daughter talk to her, do not let her end up on the road I was on. I tried for years to forget. The I realized "Do I really want to forget? Doesn't that make it all for naught? Wouldn't I then forget all I have learned as well? Wouldn't I then not be able to protect my daughter should she ever face the same? Wouldn't that mean that evil had won and what would be left then but pain and suffering for the sake of pain and suffering?" No I don't want to forget. I want to face it. I want to be able to stand up and say "You may have hurt me then but you cannot kill my spirit! You cannot destroy my life! I will get back the years the locusts destroyed!"Good can come from evil but we never call the evil "good". |
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April 25, 2006, 9:43 am PDT
Quote From: djmatt I think I mentioned my wife and I dated for four years before we were married. I believe, or know that we had a profound mutual respect for each other. Our relationship was and is unique. I just feel guilty that I am a burden to her because of my illnesses. We have had our ups and downs. But we learned a lot about each other before we ever became intimate. We were like best friends...all the time, and just enjoyed talking for hours and hours. But we still had a lot to learn, but I think we were more acquainted than most couples prior to marriage, or intimacy.
We were so young, we shared all of our thoughts, dreams, etc. She has been and is an extraordinary woman. Beautiful, and wonderful. And I still tell her that, and still tell her that I love her daily.
I hope my earlier post did no harm, and I was in a hurry. I learned a lesson.
Our children, grandson, and the one on the way are our lives. I feel we did a good job despite my depression. I did my best to hide this from them until they were older. And they still don't know how suicidal I once was.
But they are the reason I am still alive. I could not, not could I put any of my loved ones through the pain of that. I could not take a chance of any of them feeling guilty or hurt. Despite how depressed I get, or what I may say I just could not put them through such pain.
We are all close, even my 18 year old son, who is a bit of a renegade, so-to-speak hugs me and tells me he loves me. He never gets into trouble, he just likes to have fun, and he stays away from alcohol, cigarettes and drugs. He has ADD, but deals with it pretty good, and is very musically talented. We play music together. We both play multiple instruments by ear.
Our children are so precious, and yes they grow up quick. But I spent every minute with mine possible, and still do.
Your intuitions are correct, if you do not allow a window of opportunity for anyone, then there are no doubts in your mind. I have said that if one is suspicious, but have nothing solid to put their finger on, close any windows of opportunity and see if the child's behavior changes.
Better go,
God bless and take care.
dj My husband could never be a burden to me. Let me ask you this? Was your daughter or your wife a burden to you because of their past hurts and pains? IfsGod a burden to you because He experienced pain and suffering on the cross? No. He is an inspiration. As are your wife and daughter. As are you. |
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April 25, 2006, 10:31 am PDT
Quote From: jmillhouse I have taught myself to quilt and I do genealogy research but I really miss my kids and grandson. His bday is today. My daughter was going to let us see him then backed out. I am sohurt and disappointed. I am still with my husband but not sure for how long. He doesnt want to give up on me being with other guys and I am not giving in. I amposting on the abuse board and the chronic pain board. I have a therapist or counselor not sure what she is but she is helping. Thank you for your support. It means a lot. An Affair of the Mind by Laurie Hall. I think this will explain alot of your husbands actions, requests and desires. Don't give in to him! If you have already, please stop! You don't need to bring anyone else into your bedroom to please your husband. He should want to keep your bedroom private. If you have children please watch them carefully. I cannot insist enough for you to read this book.
"A 1982 report by the American Medical Association's Council on Scientific Affairs found that 'any person of whatever sexual preference, who shows a dominant pattern of frequent sexual activity with many partners who are and will remain strangers, presents evidence of shallow, narcissistic, impersonal, often compulsively driven genital - rather than person-oriented sex and is almost always regarded as pathological.'" (An Affair of the Mind, Laurie Hall) It is my beliefe that they need not be strangers, the results are the same.
He is asking you to commit adultery. Why? Doesn't he think that is wrong? Apparently not. Why? Has he been faithful himself? I think your husband has a serious problem. If you don't see it now he will destroy you and your family. Seek help aggressively. Read this book. Please!
"Gail's husband repeatedly pressed her for anal sex, and Gail repeatedly experienced vaginal infections, as well as total deadening sexual feeling. A Christian, Gail thought she had to submit to anal sex. 'Doesn't Scripture tell me not to withhold my body from my husband?' she asked me. "Yes, it does. But it also says to keep the marriage bed undefiled. Anal sex( as is swinging aka multiple sex partners) is defiling because it's a perversion. God doesn't require you to submit to perversion," I told her. After thinking it through and praying about it, Gail told her husband that she would no longer go along with anal sex. "He was angry when I said I wouldn't do it anymore, but it's such a relief to know I don't have to put up with it again. I felt so violated," Gail told me. And yet, Armand Coppins, in Memiors of an Erotic Bookseller, said of the women featured in pornography, "Even though used by a chain of men in all available orifices, the erotic heroine remains fresh, desirable, and ever ready for more." In real life (as opposed to fantasy), it ain't so , Armand." (An Affair of the Mind, Laurie Hall)
You husband is living in a fantasy land. Don't believe his lies. I am sorry to say this about your husband but anything but the truth would be hurtful and not help you and would be wrong. If I am wrong, although I don't think I am, then accept my apology in advance and disregard everything I have said that is hurtful. This is not your sin but his. You are vulnerable because of your past. Please heed this warning. Educate yourself and find the truth. But don't give into him no matter what. You don't OWE him anything!
I apologise to anyone who has read this and is offended. I do not intend to offend but sometimes the truth does that. This is not my own truth but God's. You don't have to like it. However, the truth shall set you free. (John 8:32) |
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April 25, 2006, 10:49 am PDT
Quote From: dmdaney This is the first time that I have really told my story, although regretfully it wasn't myself that was hurt it was my then 3 year old son, to really make things much harder on me, my oldest son was the perpetrator. This happened in 2001, it wasn't until 2003 that I knew my baby was hurt by this. Some of the things that he has told me have been really hard to hear, yet he will trust no one else with this. The anger has somewhat passed but I is so hard to still be there for both of the boys. Yes my oldest is in treatment, since 2001, and still there. They say that I should get a support group, but it has taken me three years just to type this out, how can one talk to someone. There is so much shame and guilt for what happened. I just wish that all of this would just end, it seems to control out lives. My husband can't/won't really even talk to me about any of this. My babies therapist, just gives me books to read and sites to look at. I can't believe all the things that one can find. If any parents out there is going through or have been through this, would you please give me some advise. I don't know where to turn to for help anymore. I just know that I am not alone on this. AM I???
I am sorry for all the pain your family is going through. Studies show that alot of perpetrators are also victims, or to say it another way many victims become perpetrators. You have alot of healing to do, but remember that this is about your children more than it is about you. You do need support and I would say try whatever you can. Studies also show that many perpetrators have addictions to things like pornography and with the access kids have to it today, it is not suprising that perpetrators are getting younger and younger. I have heard of kids as young as 9 or 10 sexually assaulting younger children. Your husband needs to come to terms with this but you may have to go it alone until he wakes up and sees what needs to be done. Books, websites and the like are helpful, so are friends and here you have many anomynous ones. I am one. You cannot shock me. I have heard it all.
The first step is accepting what has happened and letting the accountability fall where it should. Then the next thing is identifying feelings and accepting them as ugly or shaming as they may be. Then deciding what can be done to heal. Then healing. I would say you need to heal this whole family. It has not just affected you, but of course your sons and your husband as much as he may not want to admit it. Denial is just fear trying to deny the truth. Don't deny anything for the sake of your sons. Be brave and face it all. The good, the bad and the ugly. But in the meantime don't leave your boys alone with each other and don't force your youngest to talk to or see the oldest. Let him decide when and how that will happen. Ask your therapist on advice on how to do this or write to Dr. Phil and his staff. I will pray for you. If you would like someone to talk to you can email me at jiggetyjog@yahoo.com |
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