Messages By: beertje
|
February 18, 2006, 4:56 pm PST
 Man, I've been waiting for a show like this for ages where they actually are talking about noncustodial parents who are not paying child support! It sounds like Stacie and I may have been in the same predicaments.... my ex abandoned my three children back in 2002 and has basically only spoken to each of them once on the phone. He went into hiding for about a year before the child support agency finally found him. Now in 2006, we've been in court ever since mid 2003 when he's been found. We're not in court over divorce or for him to try to gain more supervised visitation, but ONLY to try to lower his child support order! More than $20,000 later in my lawyer fees, the saga STILL continues where he's calling me telling me how much he "loves" me, yet has nothing to do with the kids. Even worse, his mother is paying for all his lawyer fees to reduce his child support. Yet she's had nothing to do with the kids since 1998, by her choice. So basically, I have to fight for my children's rights at a cost that they could've had other educational opportunities afforded at the whim of their father and grandmother. Gotta feel the love. :S Unfortunately, my ex also has a passive/aggressive personality disorder that has been diagnosed from his doctor. What she does only feeds into problem, not helping. I pray this all ends soon. Fortunately, I've had a stable job where the kids' needs have been met (but financially struggled because of the debts my ex owed and dumped on me yet hasn't repaid me) and the kids have been able to cope and thrive. Thank God! I'm VERY proud to say they're all honor students, very stable, well mannered, and loving kids. They've proven that they were not going to allow him to bring them to his level. I am truly amazed by them. They have taught me many valuable lessons. Hopefully, Stacie's children will thrive and rise above as well. My financial advice if Stacie's ex isn't paying child support, research the federal statutes and her state statutes to find out what the penalties are when a noncustodial parent doesn't pay and if the statute applies to her situation, then contact her county attorney to see how they can help her. Always be well educated when it comes to your children's rights as well as your rights, so ask questions with your local child support agency until you fully understand. If you get brushed off, go to higher authority. Don't be shy, you can't afford it. Also, if he owes a portion of any possible marital debt, check the state laws on how to file judgements on what he owes. You can take those judgements as well to garnish from his wages. Good luck to Stacie and all those who are struggling with these same issues! |
|
|
February 24, 2006, 12:31 pm PST
Quote From: jewelerboy Any chance you have spent your last dollar on lawyers?? you might consider buying stocks with that money in trust for each of the kids.. you could stop praying for it to end.. by stopping it.. How can I stop it? It's not my choice to be going to court, it's my ex's. His mother is paying all of his lawyer fees to try reduce what he owes in child support, so it's at no cost to him to play these games in court. If I didn't have a lawyer, I know that I wouldn't be capable of pulling up all the statutes necessary to rebut the multiple lawyers he's used while fighting for my kids' right to monetary support. I pray for my ex to stop the bs as he's only shown that he cares about how much money he pays (he prefers paying nothing) and not the wellbeing of his kids spiritually, emotionally, physically, and mentally. If he got his way, I'd be getting no child support or at best minimal amount, creating an even tighter financial budget with no ability to invest or save. I'm just barely above the income guidelines to qualify for legal aid. If you have a sound plan that requires no lawyer yet guarantees my children's rights to not be infringed upon at the whim of my ex, please share. I am open to ideas. |
|
|
February 24, 2006, 7:23 pm PST
Quote From: jewelerboy Well lets try this he hires a lawyer.. so you hire a lawyer.. so you can rebut his and 'find statutes".. how about showing up without a lawyer?? and he gets to not pay as much... how does that differ from fighting all the time.. and YOU will be the one who de-escalates the problem. It takes one to lay down the sword.. try being that one What is there to de-escalate? So we're going to court. He's not even there, nor on the phone in court. He has his lawyer do all the talking... not even getting his facts straight. I'm not dropping a lawyer to just "let" him get what he wants at the kids' expense... He's gotten what he wants for a long time, very abusive, controlling, etc. and finally completely abandoning the kids. This is the LEAST they deserve from him. If I would drop a lawyer to "please" him, he will stop at nothing. I've been down that route in the past with him and the judge stopped the proceedings and advised I get my lawyer. He will find another reason to go to court if I just give in. He thrives on seeing people suffer and I've learned that I can't allow him to control us the way he has anymore. You make it sound like it's a negative thing that I am standing up for my children's rights. He's helped bring the kids into this world, the minimum he should do is financially support them. No one can force him to be a father. But just because he doesn't want to pay, doesn't mean I should stand aside. My kids deserve me to stand up for them, not sit down to him. |
|
|
February 24, 2006, 7:50 pm PST
Quote From: zitsahoy I so feel for you and your son. Please remember the daughter will grow up and figure things out. I have a suggestion for you to consider. Tell your son to keep record of all conversations and money transactions, and what he has done to try to be a real father. A diary. The girl will figure this out in the end and come back to her father. In the meantime it is heartbreaking and wicked. The mother will pay the price in the end when the daughter figures out mom tried to keep her daddy from her. As the gramma you could write a diary too so that it will not just be the mom's word against your son's. Do not get obsessed with it. Just write notes on what is going on and your feelings. Sorry to bring up the subject of you dying, but if you are deceased your son will have your diary to back up his facts when the little girl comes looking for the truth. Good advice! Also remember that if he has court documentation showing that he has joint legal custody, he can provide the documentation directly to any schools, clinics, etc. that has record of her. When they have that on file, the schools (I know in our state) automatically send updated information to the noncustodial parents so they are also informed. As for the clinics, then he would be able to automatically request medical info on her file without asking her mother. Good luck! |
|
|
February 24, 2006, 8:29 pm PST
Quote From: linkson I am a single 39 yr. old woman.... why do divorced women think it's their God-given right to rec'v support from a man just because they have children????? Her husband didn't put a gun to her head and make her have 3 children. She decided to probably even more than he did since it's her body. Therefore she should be responsible!!! GO GET A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She's complaining she's on food stamps but she's dressed to the 9's! Expensive shoes, expensive clothes. I'm so sick of women being leaches. All I meet today now are men who went through a divorce and got raked over the coals by their ex-wives. It's absolutely pitiful and embarassing to me as a single, independent woman. I have worked hard for every penny of my money. I would never rely on any man to supply me with financial assistance. Even if I had a child, I would make sure I could afford a child on my own two feet whether I was married or not! Whether a man was there or not! Come on women... wake up and be responsible!!!! Stop blaming men because you're too lazy or spoiled rotten to go work for a living! Wowza... you sound so assuming! First of all, don't always completely believe everything you hear from divorcees when it comes to being "raked over the coals" as there are always three sides to the story: his, hers, and the blend of both. Secondly, both men AND women are equally responsible for their children. Thirdly, just because a mother and her children are on food stamps does not mean she did not receive nice clothes as gifts, knowing she was going to appear on television. Fourthly, don't assume all mothers who were homemakers (or working mothers) and are going or are divorced sit home, don't work, and expect the fathers to continue paying for all of the expenses. And finally, you are completely missing the point... it's not the woman who needs the support, it's the kids... that's why it's called CHILD SUPPORT. |
|
|
February 24, 2006, 9:02 pm PST
Quote From: kwrye_ga My daughter is going through this but she can't even get him to agree on a speration agreement and her state you have to be legally sperated a year before divorce. He left her and 2 kids May 2005 and has not paid anything towards the kids or bills. He didn't work for last 1 year of marrage and got a job just after he moved out and maxed the credit cards out before he left. When she took the speration papers over to him to read and come to an agreement ,he read it and said he didn't agree to anything in it about child support and eveything else and told her "you won't get a penny out of me" and the next day quit his job. He is planning on leaving the state the 1st of March and taking the truck which is in her name only. 4 lawyers that she has talk to want $4000.00 retainer fee to help her. She is the bread winner but can't pay that cause he left her in financal bind. Thanks for letting me vent cause I try to keep my mouth out of it. Geez, what state does she live in? I recommend he's served papers before he leaves. Does she have his forwarding address? Make sure that all the debt that he accumulated during the marriage is separated and counted as his debt alone in court. If they were mutual credit cards and it's awarded in court that he is the only one responsible for the debt, and she pays on those debts, she can file a judgement against him to repay her for that debt. I would highly recommend she invest in a lawyer as it sounds like she will be left in a much more financial pinch without one (ie the truck she is legally liable for in the event of an accident). Has she filed for child support from the county agency or is she waiting for the separation finalization? It appears she's on a long road to peace. May she see it sooner... |
|
|
February 25, 2006, 4:36 pm PST
Quote From: jewelerboy The issue becomes.. how often does a kid live his or her childhood.. last time I checked.. only once.. so if you create a environment of " making him pay".. to force him into paying what "they" deserve... lets say that is... $250,000,000...and you raise them in an environment that is stressful and there is animosity between their parents while you " stand up for them" can you use the money to re-buy their childhood?? I am not sure if you will ever hear your kids say... "Mommy.. you did a great job of forcing daddy to pay.. and all those years of fighting.. paying lawyers...coming home from court crying.. sleepless nights screaming at each other on the phone were worth it.. i am so glad you got daddys dollars..." If you ask the average 5 year old if she wants 250 million dollars.. or to snuggle up with mom and watch a disney video.. you might be suprised at what they find important. Wow are you ever assuming my situation. Where did I ever say the children are even involved in MY adult issues? One thing I will share is since their father decided to completely abandon them, they have been at more peace and happiness than they had experienced while we were married. I DON'T come home crying and screaming on the phone. Did you miss the part where I said HE DOESN'T talk to his kids, write to his kids, see his kids, have anything to do with his kids? He has called late at night when he suspects the kids are in bed (after 11:00 p.m.) to talk only to me and my response to him has only been, "Is there something you needed to discuss concerning the kids?" His response has always been, "No." "Then I don't want to talk to you. Quit calling just to talk to me." Then I hang up. Would that be the part that the kids could witness us fighting? See, he never cared about the kids, as that's part of his disorder. He truly doesn't know love. They don't do without what I can financially afford to give them and they have NEVER done without my time for them. They ARE happy, well-adjusted, balanced, honor students. I have been very lucky that they have risen above the crap that was handed to them by their father so they can show him that he didn't bring them down. He thrives on seeing people suffer because of his actions. That's why I won't stop DEFENDING my children's rights in court. The laws are on their side, not his. You sure seem to have much time on your hands to pass judgement on others without knowing their situation. The only advice I had asked from you was if you had any plans that would not infringe on my children's rights to receive child support without needing to pay for a lawyer. You've offered all other opinions instead of the advice I asked for. It appears like you just want to rile people up with no basis. :/ |
|
|
February 26, 2006, 9:48 am PST
Quote From: chikara1 I have been following the discussion here where Jewlerboy advises Beertje to “lay down your sword” and cease all objections to Beertje’s Ex-Husband’s (“EH”) continuing use of the court process. In this situation, it is the EH who is using financial resources to continually haul Beertje back into court so that he can reduce or avoid paying CS. For her part, Beertje has appeared in court according to the summonses and hired a lawyer because the court advised her to do so.
First of all, “laying down your sword” is from Matthew 26:50-53. The passage addresses Jesus’ admonition to Peter to put away his sword, to not attack the soldiers holding Him captive. Peter acted aggressively, cutting off the ear of a servant to the high priest. Jesus tells Peter to put away his sword because His strength comes from The Father.
Beertje’s EH has his sword out, bolstered by his mother, and little by little, he is chipping away at Beertje and their children. First an ear, then an eye, tomorrow an arm, and every cut into Beertje harms the very children that the EH presumably loves.
Let us also remember here that Beertje is not the one holding a sword! She is holding a shield against the EH’s sword.
If I were Beertje’s lawyer, I would try to achieve a laying down of swords. I would try to be a peacemaker. But, and this is a very big but, it is impossible to achieve this if the EH has a lawyer who takes marching orders and is willing to keep this mess going on. It is also critical to remember that the EH will keep on cutting. Beertje’s default will be a sign of victory to this passive-aggressive man. The likelihood is that he will be stimulated to increase his battle stance, not decrease and move towards peaceful resolution.
Let’s say Beertje follows your advice. Let’s say the EH gets CS down to where he thinks it should be or to nothing at all. You’ve suggested that the kids should have no way of knowing about the financial battle. I agree. However, the children will suffer when Beertje has to work long hours, or two jobs and cannot be there to snuggle up and watch a Disney video because she has to work 16-18 hours at an outside job in order to financially take care of the kids. When the children can’t go skiing, or play hockey, take a dance or piano class because there is not enough money, the kids pay the price for Beertje’s default. And, if the kids can do these extracurricular activities, Beertje can’t be there because she has to work all the time. When Beertje has to make major repairs on her car, or buy a new one, something else has to give and that’s the end of someone’s art supplies, or needed new skates.
The list goes on and on. Jewlerboy, I have seen so many cases like Beertje’s. I wish it was so simple but it is not because you are dealing with complex emotions from different people. I can hear Beertje’s frustration with your suggestion because she knows that it will not work with her EH. She knows that yielding, ceasing to resist, will be interpreted as a sign of weakness and the EH’s next blow will be at the soft underbelly.
And, based on my experience, here’s what the soft underbelly will be. The EH will again use his mother’s money. He will not care that he might be bankrupting her retirement funds because he is concerned only with satisfying his own needs. The EH will file a motion with the court, seeking sole custody because Beertje is never home. The EH will tell the court that Beertje “only cares about her career” and is never home for the kids. The EH will tell the court that even though he is so impoverished, he is “getting help for his problems.” He will do a great job of telling the court that he knows he has issues but he’s working on it. He will remorsefully apologize for his past wrongs. And then, the EH will tell the court that he can better care for the kids because his mother will help or his fiancée/new wife is committed to staying at home for the children.
That’s the scenario that typically plays out. The obvious tragedy is that EH is not at all acting in the children’s best interests. He is satisfying only his own self-centered needs.
Beertje, the one thing that you may be able to do is to ask the judge to refer you to mediation with no lawyers present. Then, you will need to do preparation work to be sure that you are able to articulate your positions and be strong against your EH’s tactics. There is a great deal of information available on the internet (you probably already know this). If you need other resources, I’ll be happy to provide you with references.
Keep your chin up. I am well aware of the difficulties that you face. If you can simplify things, go for it but, as we all know, some things are not as simple as they might seem to someone else.
I just saw your response. Thank you for understanding and expressing your point of view. You explained it much better than I did! **Huggles** I have tried mediating with him in the past. He refuses to budge. Why would he if he's not paying for the expense and if he thinks that it may get him somewhere? He's enjoying the process. I just hope that with all of the fees that have accumulated (his lawyer has to travel six hours a day just to appear in court) that his mother will get so broke and tired of paying that she'll say that she's done enough. The interesting part in all of this is that I have sole physical and legal custody of the children. Not once, has he requested to modify that part of the order, just child support. If he ever did try, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. He lives in another state and I hope he stays there. The kids are old enough (teenagers) to say whether they want to see their father. Thank you for the advice. I will keep my chin up. I have gorgeous kids to watch, play with, teach, and learn from. Soon they'll be in college and the years inbetween will go quickly. The time I have with them is precious and that's something he can't take away. God's blessings! |
|
|
February 27, 2006, 7:49 pm PST
Quote From: jewelerboy Let me see .. you hope the kids grandmother goes bankrupt?? It seems that you may be enjoying the process more than i thought as well Again.. stop fighting, there is, by your own story, very little upside to spending your resources fighting to "make him pay his obligations". The fight has made you someone who in one sentence can hope the kids grandma goes broke.. and a sentence later can say "God's Blessings".
Below are quotes that came directly from you regarding your history and opinions:
“Kid is 12 now.. so 12 years and nine months ago her mom was working for the stock brokerage i worked for.”
“On the day she was in the deliver room she and her sister decided to call every incoming line into the brokerage from the bank of pay phones at the hospital in order to try to get me to come participate ( imagine me not wanting to spend time with a woman who had to be removed from my front porch) For the next 5 months or so all was quiet I had a relationship with another woman.”
“I lost my job, which ended my home ownership etc and lost my relationship, my pets and porsche. I went underground after that for 10 years worked as a photographer, computer repair guy, and then pawnbroker ( cash jobs- self employed. After 10 years I called her to try to figure out a way to get my drivers license back as it had been suspended for non-payment ( dead beat dad and not at all upset by it)”
“This forced a "meeting" with my kid.. who took to me immediately and additional rounds of strange behavouir in the woman, she began to try to be "interested in me" despite being married and with another child ( Same exact plan.. this time it worked for her) That brings us to two years ago.. my kid wants to live with me because of the stress in her moms house.”
“The woman who did this to me stayed quitely to her self for a year while I developed a realationship with someone else. Once I had that relationship and was pregnant.. she THEN decided to sue me for support because she didnt get her way. As a result of that we were suddenly unable to support ourselves and certainly unable to support a family, we terminated that preganancy and the relationship was hopelessly lost.”
“The child I wanted was terminated as a result of the woman derailing my life”
“My responsibility is the same in my view her mom made this bed..she really should get comfortable in it. My daugter can live with me.. share my lifestyle etc.. as it stands right now.. my support payment is exactly the same as her dodge neon payment.. how cool is that??”
“The problem is not with her getting pregnant, the problem is knowing that if she does... she willbe able to get some of a stockbrokers paycheque. Once I was tagged with support, I transferred all my assets into my mothers name and got a part time job bagging groceries at the local market.. $65 a week on average. It is not the control or lack thereof, it is the deception and using a system that was designed for married parents who's marrige did not work out, and who made a decision to have kids together to reach into my wallet and pay for what she wanted.” “Yes.. I decided not to support the child.. when will you people realize this was not "some mistake" this was fraud, and deception, I was planning all along to quit and bag groceries if the woman who decided to to this to me didnt like it.. she should have thought about that before she decided to lie to me. It is why you should get married first.”
“If you ask the average 5 year old if she wants 250 million dollars.. or to snuggle up with mom and watch a disney video.. you might be suprised at what they find important.”
“How many childhoods do the kids get?? ONE.. and if you spend it trying to teach your spouse a "lesson" how fair is that to the kid?”
“Fighting on his side as it was explained is to limit his support payment.. well lets say .. just for sport.. that she did something in the marriage that caused it to disintegrate.. now I know before everyone jumps on me the women are incapable of ever doing anything wrong in any situation and we are always better served to believe that the man is the root of all problems in every marriage.. but just for fun.. lets say the guy has a reason to be a bit sore over something that she did.. and she managed to divorce him.. but cant quite bring herself to divorce his wallet.. so he keeps fighting..”
“Now back to sun tsu.. if she cant win ( and she herself says that is unlikley based on the past history).. and as she says.. the kids are teenagers now.. so the end of support payments are fairly close anyway.. she can continue to fight blow for blow with him, exhausting herself against his moms financial resources while living in turmoil.. or she can stop fighting and give him what he wants.” With your responses that were directed at me, I couldn't figure out why you would recommend me to "lay down my sword" so to speak. But in reading your history, it makes more sense. First of all, never did I say that I I was unlikely to receive the child support that is owed. I know that by having a lawyer appear in court on my children's behalf, I know I will end up with what is owed to them because (as I said previously) the law is on their side. Secondly, I wouldn't call my children's grandmother a "grandma." She's refused to have a relationship with them since 1998 by her choice. That, in my book, is no grandma. And if she wants to spend her money supporting her son for the wrong reasons (they have no other relationship outside of his need for her money) then I do hope she learns from this as well. But now I can understand why you can relate somewhat with my ex, based on your history and obvious bitterness towards women and child support. I will no longer be listening to your advice, when you chose to not be a father to your child for 10 years, regardless of what your relationship was or issues you personally had with her mother. You could've chosen to receive parental rights for custody or visitation, going through Safe Exchange (or other means) to not have to face her mother. You, yourself, emphasize your child has but one childhood, yet you chose to not have a relationship with her for 10 out of the 12 years she's been here. And only when child support caught up with you and took your driver's license away, were you "forced" to meet her. I can't imagine what she would think if she were ever to read how you portray her, mourning for the "wanted" child that you and your ex chose to terminate, yet showing no remorse for the time you chose to be away from your unwanted daughter that is alive. You certainly have issues and I sincerely hope that you get professional help. As for your "just for sport" adding to the mix any issues that you think it was my fault that the marriage ended... I guess you could say that may be fair game. I did end the marriage after his abuse, his affairs, his neglect, etc. and he was allegedly devastated that he could no longer have a relationship with me. So, being passive-aggressive as he is, he did exactly what you did. He quit his job and went into hiding to avoid paying child support. He dumped his kids. Just like you did. But what you failed to separate, is that while I am divorced from him, the kid's are not. Child support is designated for these kids, not me. They have the right for his financial support, not me. I will continue defending their rights in court with a lawyer, because it's still many years before my youngest turns 18 and finishes high school. In closing, I really feel bad for your daughter. I'd be quite surprised if she didn't have issues questioning why you weren't there for her in her most formative years. She needed a father, especially since you make her mother out to be so evil. At minimum, you should've had a relationship with your daughter from the beginning to ensure her needs were being met, not only physically, financially, emotionally, and spiritually, regardless of your anger towards her mother. It was not her choice to be in this world and you did take it out on her. My prayers are with her that she finds stability, balance, and self-esteem within herself to rise above the issues that were dumped on her by both of her parents. She didn't deserve it. |
|
|
February 28, 2006, 7:04 pm PST
Quote From: jewelerboy Ya know I appreciate the concern for my daughter.. if any of it was genuine and not just geared to calling me names. My kid at 12 years old has spent enough time with me to figure out that life at my house is more "normal" than living with her mother and the new step father. Her Mother did the same thing to another man that she did with me..and he " did the right thing" and married her.. well suprise suprise.. the relationship.. built on deception and narcissim is falling apart into violence and mental instability. I recognized by the behavouir at the start that the mother had a limited grasp of what was acceptable behavouir and as such I knew that any "relationship" with her would both fail and she would interfear with any subsequent relationship I might have had.. so for the good of everyone involved i needed to remove myself from contact with her. Seems to have turned out okay however.. the kid you all "feel so sorry for" cant find a way to get enough of me.. and I could not be any happier. And yes.. both she and I are looking for a way for her to live with me...and I will not be asking for a nickle in support from her mother.. any amount I might receive from her would not be worth any contact i had to endure. Just wanted you to know that I am very sincere about my concern for your daughter. Not once have I called you a name. I don't stoop to that level. I have two girls around your daughter's age and know that the preteen years can be a very difficult transition. I do hope that your relationship is only getting stronger by the day with you having a more active role in being her parent. I would advise, however, to watch for the many layers of thoughts and feelings that girls in general may not be showing. For example, one daughter is caught between two people (like two of her best friends) that she wants to please. In the past, she would say what she thought each person would want to hear, no matter how trivial the question is. Both answers may not be what she wanted at all. It took a long time for her to understand that no matter what her opinion was or if she stood up for what she thought was right, that her family and true friends would never judge or abandon her. This was occurring shortly after her father took off. My other daughter's behavior became somewhat depressive after he took off. If a parent would not have known them growing up, they may completely miss some of the symptoms that their child may be displaying as many are very subtle. Mind you, my ex was never really there for them as a parent should, but when he suddenly was not in the picture at all, it put her in shock because she was now not able to physically see him at all. She worried that something had happened to him. She eventually overcame that when he called her sibling and learned that he was just fine and that he was just "on vacation" and decided to live there. Of course, he refused to tell them where "there" was. What concerns me with what you've written is that it appears that your responses are consistently repeating your actions were based on your needs or wants (or unwants for that matter.) Your responses seem to divert back to what her mother did, not setting aside her mother's actions and just being a role model for your daughter, as if her mother's actions justify your decisions to not be a parent. As a parent, one should put their child's needs first when it comes to safety and basic needs. They arrived in this world in one way or another and no matter who is to blame on deceipt, corruption, need, or spite, that child needs both parents to support them in as many forms as possible. There is never enough time, in a child's eyes, with their parent. I also hope that you are withholding your contempt for her mother from your daughter, not only in verbal, but nonverbal messages. In the event she does live with you, please don't assume that just because you won't pursue child support, it doesn't mean her mother won't be in the picture. Finances and visitation are very separate issues. Especially since you stated that she intentionally got pregnant and wanted your daughter. It's rare that a custodial parent after 12 years would suddenly be no longer interested in continuing a relationship with their child. You could take my advice or leave it, that's up to you. I'm not trying to offend you or make you feel defensive. I truly wish you all the luck that your relationship with your daughter only grows stronger. |
|