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Messages By: wildwood

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January 18, 2007, 7:18 am PST

correction of course some of you understand

 I wanted to say in my post I made a statement that could come across as arrogant. I had said no one can understand what it is like to have a man on the warpath in your home.  By this I meant anyone who hasn't had this happen to them. "Outsiders" and in fact some insiders that are shown a completely different person simply cannot "see" the problem so they blame the victim......more abuse. An abuser ususally only picks ONE victim for a reason, and often in no way interacts with everyone that way. Sneaky like a fox. This just means we may have been at the wrong place at the right time for the abuse to begin and it is the ABUSE that traps, ensnares and  creates the sabotouge towards escape a consequence of the original abuse.

 

Protest, independant thinking leads to MORE, not less abuse. A bit like quicksand, you can't always see it but struggling to get out only makes it worse.  This person being abusive is NOT held accountible...by anyone, not even the mental health community, let alone by society at large.  We need someone to mark the quicksand pits, not just blame those that were its victims.  To get out of quicksand alone is a very daunting task indeed.

 

That being said, with all logic and rationality I must severly protest the "co dependant" lables that always seem to fly, when one talks of abuse.  How can you be a co dependant and a  victim? I would prefer to refer to it as an encounter with a monster at  war with self.  Anything but "co dependant". My peeve, as it suggest that one left dehumanized by another is somewhow the flawed number in the equation.

That is an oxymoron (sp).  You are either a "victim" which I don't like either, or you are dependant (not always by your own choice or because you welcome abuse though some sick need of your own).

 

This is a phrase coined by a mostly male psycho establishment, to DENY, that there are many males (and some females) with an excess of dominate genes, and a large dose of immaturity and insecurity. It is a denial of males regarding the BEHAVIOR of males often towards women and children (and other males, or anyone they perceive to be weak or trapped). 

 

In my mind it is as abusive as the original abuse, to be met with the denial of the PROBLEM, therefore it continues. There is no responsibility placed on misbehavior.  People are being  emotionally abused with duress or by using something near and dear to the victim (even their own perceptions and sanity) and hit, slapped, imprisioned and otherwise abused (in their own homes)  and have no where to go that they won't be abused again by disbelief or denial of understanding.  No help (and  they get lots of sabatouge) in getting out of the quicksand. And like when in  quicksand we can, coupled with the abuse, be our own worst enemies as we try and get out.

 

Abusers are masters of deception, and WE let them get away with it by blaming those they deceive, and if you don't believe the ante is upped. The nature of abuse perpetuates itself.

 

We do not need to revictimizewith this faulty mind think that somehow THEY must  want this or bring it on themselves. Let alone contribute to it with a PLANNED  conscious or unconscious dependant approach. It is not only totally illogical, irrational, and CONTRIBUTES to the problem to assume that ones life experiences sets you up or can protect you from these types people.

 

The "wolf in sheeps clothing" aspects have made so called "co dependant victims" out of the strongest of people. Real colors aren't shown until the trap is set. Being totally intelligent and independant, is not sufficient "protection" once you find yourself being DECEIVED. It is the deceptive snare that catches many irregardless of their OWN personality.

 

That being said, there are MORE constructive or creative ways to help yourself, but many times HIGHLY impractical. The Maslow's theory or hiearchy of existance lists the basics ALL humans need. If you are unable to obtain those, YOU ARE A TRAPPED HUMAN.  Given emotional welfare over a roof over you head, guess what suffers emotional welfare. If you are faced with pursuit and continued harrassment by leaving, many women CHOOSE to stay, at least you can see and learn to "read" your enemy up close. Women are not ready to leave behind their children, and such in a save yourself mentality. Even if they could, someone would clearly hold THEM accountible, while in the same breath, BLAME them for not doing the very thing they will condem them for.  Being in an abusive situation is a horrible catch 22, and don't think abusers don't use that to their advantage...........DAILY .............and after the escape.

 

It is time we realize the abuse problem for what it is...............impossibility..........as the abusive person is FLAWED, irrational, mentally not fully developed  and NEVER held accountible. They don't WANT to change and no one can make them. They need lobotomies, or locked up. PERIOD.  Lets not help them by holding their VICTIMS accountable.

 

The proof that this is NOT a co dependant problem is made quite clear from the fact that many many women.........get out of the dependant trapped position............yet the ABUSE emotional, and physical either continues or esculates irregardless of their STRONG positions and determination not to have to live with this.

 

NOPE, these men have BEHAVIORAL disorders that run the gammet, and they should be locked up retrained,  punished, or attempts made to rehabilitate..........or  ways instilled to prevent them from "picking another unsuspecting" female for their next victim.

 

The problem is one of mankind, not just due to the welcome mat being put out by womenkind.

 

Ok off my soapbox.

Thanks

 
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January 19, 2007, 3:41 am PST

Right on the spot

Quote From: Pleasance

Emotional Blackmail.  

   

Punishers  let you know exactly what they want--and the consequences you face if you don't give it to them.  

   

Self-Punishers turn the threats inward, telling you what they'll do themselves if you don't give in.  

   

Sufferers are talented blamers and guilt-peddlers who make us figure out what they want and then conclude that it is up to us to ensure they get it.  

   

Tantalizers put us through a series of tests and hold out a promise of something wonderful if we'll just give them their way.  

   

   

 I really like this post. As humans part of our makeup is to get what we want. or need or think we need.  Sometimes we all consciously or unconsciously manipulate (we all do it to some degree) to get  things our way. However, and this is a biggie, we graciously or at the least accept when it doesn't happen. 

 

A mature person, attempts to "manipulate" maturely.  At least most of the time. An immature person manipulates VERY IMMATURELY, with anger, threats, lies, payback, sabotouge and physical abuse.  Basically someone's momma didn't do the job, of moving a child toward living in truth, or at the least the shocking idea that it isn't all about us. They instilled compassion, empathy and sympathy and maturity. 

 

I don't intend to blame all the momma's of the world, as they dealt with papa's (hopefully) while raising children.

 

Sometimes even those of us that know better, reach points of  self protective, or deceptive manipulations. I think it is very healthy to see those "manipulative" tools listed or identified, most abusive manipulations have LIES,  or power as the main ingredient and that is what is to be gained by that outcome. Not power with but power over. 

 

My husbands need for power has clouded his ability to live in truth. His need for power often comes from his giving too much of his own away to alcohol.  I don't think, therefore, his locus of control is functioning in a productive way, even though he claims to have stopped drinking (several years ago say 5-6). I think that too is somewhat of a lie, as I know for a fact he has drank some since then. Maybe not as heavily.  However what he didn't give up, was the need to deceive himself and others, nor his quest for power over others to regain the personal power he gave up to alcohol.

 

That is how I began to unravel my situation the LIES, DECEPTIONS, and the use of POWER in unhealthy ways. RUN from anyone using those tools to "get their way". 

 

I do think there are givers and takers in the world. Some takers cannot take NOT being given to. PERIOD. They then become totally spoiled and out of control CHILDREN. They abuse the truth, others and themselves with the need to "have their way" or others pay.

 

Thanks for the headsup on HOW they do it.

 
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January 19, 2007, 4:11 am PST

They can be very connected

Quote From: Pleasance

I realize her scope and forte is addiction.

 

I was looking for her take on Abuse in the home coming from an Abuser.

 

ANGER IS NOT THE CORE, OR THE MOTIVATION BEHIND ABUSE OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

 

  ALCOHOLIC  PARTNERS ARE NOT INFLUENCED BY THE BATTERED WOMAN'S SYNDROME OR THE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME.

 

The dynamics are a little similar but not to a degree of many similarities.

 

There isn't that level of learned helplessness.  Unless of course......THE ALCOHOLIC IS ALSO AN ABUSER.

 

Two deal breakers.

 

ALCOHOLISM DOES NOT CAUSE ABUSE.

 

ABUSE DOES NOT CAUSE ALCOHOLISM.

 

THOSE ARE TWO VERY SEPARATE PROBLEMS.

 

There are many, many abusers who do NOT have problems with alcohol or drugs.  In fact most.

 

While I will agree that many alcoholics are and do dish out abuse.  However, some alcoholics and drug users are not abusive in the same sense.......as a batterer or abuser would be.  (having trouble explaining this to give a picture here, but nonetheless)  

 

Just so I understand, indulge me for a brief minute........you didn't END abuse in your relationship....your abuser still abused, abuses....and will continue to abuse till the day he dies....(unless the light bulb goes off before his deathbed, rare...wouldn't you agree?)  YOU ENDED your relationship....spousal.  HE has NOT ended his use of abuse.  (just to clarify, what we always say about what can and cannot be done, what's up to us , what we CAN change)

 

 

I have always appreciated many of the things that you have posted from Melody Beattie, and many many years ago.....I read some of the same books after hearing her speak....(not in person)  I was looking for answers.....certainly there are mountains of helpful information that could and can be applied .  Your list here exemplifies that very thing.  YET, clearly even of the ones posted here by you, there are several that just do not apply or should not apply to a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND ABUSE SITUATION.....NOR PERPETRATOR.  

 

On another note, to something you said...I guess I don't recall anyone here "competing between martyrs".......if anything over the years I've heard many, many  women minimizing and denying  their experiences by saying "my husband , partner, boyfriend is not like anything as bad as what I've heard or read here."  or  " to call any of this abuse, is something I'm not comfortable with."

  

 

Just somethings I felt I needed to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Not attempting to be argumentative, BUT (don't you just hate that word?) Alcoholics and abuse do often go hand in hand. As does abuse and substance abuse of any kind. 

 

 Often an abuser, tries to dull his guilt  (or create an excuse) with alcohol or some other "not my fault" substance abuse,  and just as often an alcoholic tries to dull his abuse of alcohol with abuse of others.  They do NOT always go hand in hand, but (again) many many times they do.

Chicken and egg. " I didn't know what I was doing I was drunk".  Now the person isn't guilty it is the substance talking. (avoidance of personal responsibility for ones acts)

 

Many times the substance is nothing more than the "red herring", sometimes it is the cause or "freeing" mechainism. Most authorities agree the personality disorder, was there, even if latent  or kept under control BEFORE the substance abuse ever occurred.  The substance is therefore to blame not the person abusing. Call it a catalyst for "excused" misbehavior if you will. The substance can, and often does, bring out "personalities or malfunctions in thinking" that were kept in check or latent, until released by the "freedom" of the substance abuse.  Anthing is better than being personally responsible.  (impotence is another blamer, when in reality OTHER things are more often the cause with impotence being the result.)

 

That has been my take on my readings, prof.  consultations, and personal experience with abusive personalities.

 

 The mental health manuals often list several "linked" behavioral disorders as being a magnet for other behavioral disorders.  Many times people think if a substance abuser is "cured" everything will go away.  This often proves to be a big mistake, and the stress of STILL having the personality disorder or situational disordered thinking makes FULL recovery not immediately possible after the substance is taken away.  People medicate with all sorts of things, the disease or disorder isn't cured, only "hidden".

 
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January 19, 2007, 4:59 am PST

wanted to add, Abuse of any kind is very complex

Quote From: wildwood

 I really like this post. As humans part of our makeup is to get what we want. or need or think we need.  Sometimes we all consciously or unconsciously manipulate (we all do it to some degree) to get  things our way. However, and this is a biggie, we graciously or at the least accept when it doesn't happen. 

 

A mature person, attempts to "manipulate" maturely.  At least most of the time. An immature person manipulates VERY IMMATURELY, with anger, threats, lies, payback, sabotouge and physical abuse.  Basically someone's momma didn't do the job, of moving a child toward living in truth, or at the least the shocking idea that it isn't all about us. They instilled compassion, empathy and sympathy and maturity. 

 

I don't intend to blame all the momma's of the world, as they dealt with papa's (hopefully) while raising children.

 

Sometimes even those of us that know better, reach points of  self protective, or deceptive manipulations. I think it is very healthy to see those "manipulative" tools listed or identified, most abusive manipulations have LIES,  or power as the main ingredient and that is what is to be gained by that outcome. Not power with but power over. 

 

My husbands need for power has clouded his ability to live in truth. His need for power often comes from his giving too much of his own away to alcohol.  I don't think, therefore, his locus of control is functioning in a productive way, even though he claims to have stopped drinking (several years ago say 5-6). I think that too is somewhat of a lie, as I know for a fact he has drank some since then. Maybe not as heavily.  However what he didn't give up, was the need to deceive himself and others, nor his quest for power over others to regain the personal power he gave up to alcohol.

 

That is how I began to unravel my situation the LIES, DECEPTIONS, and the use of POWER in unhealthy ways. RUN from anyone using those tools to "get their way". 

 

I do think there are givers and takers in the world. Some takers cannot take NOT being given to. PERIOD. They then become totally spoiled and out of control CHILDREN. They abuse the truth, others and themselves with the need to "have their way" or others pay.

 

Thanks for the headsup on HOW they do it.

  Abuse and it's victims (target persons)  is very complex.  Learned helplessness can be  very prevelant in both the target person (victim) and in the abuser (abuse of substance or of power).  It is sometimes referred to as a dance where neither party can escape, so they continually dance in a dysfunctional way often trading places in the power and man down postitions.

 

My husband fluxuates daily from tyrant, (daddy figure or how he sees them) to child (Mr. Magoo clueless and therefore not responsible).  These are the ways he copes with his "non meshed" personality.

 

 He has disordered black or white thinking, and if his being here all the time has taught me one thing.........it is that he has ALWAYS been at war with extremes, not able to be crossed, with out immediate shift to the "victim or helpless and clueless" only to rise up the tyrant within days.

 

. He is therefore(seen as and behaving)  passive aggressive, oppositional defiant and obessive compulsive (my diag.) and many other things that CLEARLY illustrate to me that his SELVES are not at peace with each other. All, manipulations, however are in fact a symptom of the deeper personality disorders, though they may be situational.  POWER OVER is however the goal he strives for. If he can't have THAT he melts before your eyes into a total helpless child. Of no use to anyone. This is manipulation to the tenth degree.

 

I, having lived with him for many years, and  in hopelessly trying to mesh a reality that is constant, believe they have ALWAYS been there. As are his "multiple personalities" (my arm chair diag) and his Mr. Moodies ( or "actors" that come out as I refer to them to myself)  and his need to manipulate others into their "roles". dependant on HIS moods.  I also think he is clearly narcississtic (sp?). This may be his MAIN disorder and the others support that role. All of this is "my conclusions" based on much readings, consultations, and otherwise futile attempts to understand it, counteract it or cope with  it in a less "put your own neck in the noose way".

 

However, upon numerous attempts to get it to stop, or uncovered through counseling alone or together, NOT ONE COUNSELOR did much to do anything but HURT the situation. One even told him (based on a self test of himself) that he was not an alcoholic (as they did my father at one time), nor did they apparently do any other testing of any kind on EITHER of us to determine what  WAS at the bottom of any of this.

 

 More often I was addressed and given assignments, or seen as the "more pitifull" even when I was groomed, in control, non emotional and very articulate. They were intimadated and impressed by my husband profession,  (police military,and  his polish and manipulations of truth, relaxed demeanor, non challence (good gracious he has been TRAINED to decieve and be "in control" people!!!!!). 

 

I was told don't interupt, forget the past, be a supportive and appreciative wife, stop spending money, ( his by the way, stop living!) my nest was empty, (NOT by a long stretch)  my surgery (hysterictomy) was the cause, get a hobby (duh I have hundereds) get a job, which I had had several during the marriage, to include self employed (while he blackballs me to the kids? transfers his abandonment issues?) and a multitude of "it is your fault, shut up and take it or look the other way" consider yourself lucky he DOESN"T beat you!  babblespeak, that only "abused further" and clearly showed our counselors "didn't have a clue" as to the dynamics or hidden aspects of  emotional abuse, financial blackmail or any of the realities I dealt with. 

 

These were the "professionals" I spent good money  on to help us. I should have saved it for my escape instead, but wanted my marriage to WORK under different dynamics. One, did identify me as the  family "scapegoat" but proceeded to crab walk away from that when my husband was in the room. COUNSELING doesnt' help. Many men just use "going to counseling to stall and abuse further" making me VERY sorry for all the years spent getting him to go and attempting to go. The only thing I got from counseling is it can't help you, ONLY YOU CAN help yourself. Get them out or get you out.

 

Perhaps it is his catholic upbringing, his war experiences, or because he is a twin, a male, hurt, angry or really IS confused,  or maybe just because he can. None of course, are excuses, nor reasons to stay with someone at war with themselves.  I only offer this for the "debate" purposes of our unrelenting desire to "understand" how and why we here have had an "encounter with a person at war with themselves".

 
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January 21, 2007, 8:48 pm PST

Thanks

Quote From: figuritout

Wildwood, would you like to talk about your situation? 

 

Have you had a chance to read my post from yesterday?  (The one about my head spinning....  It wasn't directed at anyone in particular.)

 

I am not interested in talking about the motives of other board members.  There is no way either one of us can know what is in their heads.

 

I am interested in talking about the abuse issues you face at home, though, if you would like to.  Your husband sounds similar to mine in some ways.

 

I don't have much tolerance for fighting; I'll let you know that now.  

 

One more thing--I ask a LOT of questions and I have always done that.  If I ask you questions, I will not be picking on you and I can guarantee you that I have no hidden agenda to abuse you, make you look stupid or anything else like that.

 

 

 thanks for the offer figurnitout (?) I am NOT in denial, not at this late in the game.  I am aware of what is "going on" to include my part in it.  I am just ready for someone less "moody" and more interested in living life.  I love so many things, and realize I cannot change him, only me. However, I am not young, and making the changes will take time. 

 

I do think many who have "gotten out" and moved on would agree that it is a process to say the least. Many women are abused again by a system that is NOT equal to the task of protecting "escapees" from more abuse.

 

I recently read an article on how mediation is the worst for women, particularly abused women.

 

I often speak in "general terms" as I am more interested in the dynamics of it, and do not always "allude" to my own personal situation. I guess some find this "confusing', but interestingly not all women fit the "sterotypical" of no money, no resources, or an inability to "see" what is going on.

 

Just because you are in a "different" situation or place, or do not have the physical or other stuff ....doesn't mean you are "in denial"..  Perhaps just being prudent, for your own situation.

 

Sometimes women can lose their children to the system, designed to protect the more casual liar (or abuser). 

 

Thank you for your offer.........mostly I have my "plan" just thought I would visit and chat......for support or to get input. .........It was not my intent to see things go where they did.  Truly I am not an aggressive person, but I am no fool either. Thanks

 

I do have trouble getting these boards to come up in order, and so I cannot find your post you refer to, can't find my own or the most current page either sometimes. My board comes up with the oldest not the newest post and I have trouble navigating to the most current page.  I still don't understand just "how" the pages or posts are rotated. Could you explain?

 
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January 24, 2007, 4:03 am PST

Thanks not so dizzy and spinning with your help

Quote From: figuritout

Wildwood, it might help if you log in when you come to the message boards.  That way, the messages will be in chronological order, with the most recent one first/at the top.  If you go offline for a while, you will be logged out, but you can just log in again when you come back.  If the top post has a date of 2005, you know you need to log in again to get the recent ones on top.  Make sense?  Oh, when you are logged in, the "first" messages will be the most recent.  When you're not, the "first" messages are the oldest.  Now I may have just confused myself :)  Check it out and see if it works.

 

To look for a post--mine, for example--go to "search" and it will give you two boxes.  Type "figuritout" in one and then select the marriage and family (or something similar) category.  It will show you all of my posts and you can find the one you're looking for.  I was hoping you had seen the one with the "my head is spinning" title.

 

You started your post with, "I am NOT in denial...."  I hope you don't think I said you were, because I never mentioned denial.  Maybe you're thinking of someone else. 

 

I will agree that the process of leaving is difficult and "the system" hasn't made it any easier for me.  The whole thing is a mess and I wish none of us had to do this, but that's just my fantasy.  Let's get back to reality.

 

You mentioned women losing their children.  Is your husband lying, trying to have your children taken away?  Share if you want to.

 

So, you already have a plan to leave?  Is there anything in particular you would like input on?  I really don't want to get in the middle of your discussions with other people who are posting to you.  Let me know if you want to talk.

 

 

 Ok, the logging on first helped put things in order.   Thanks

 

What I am referring to is joint custody situations that are very hard on kids. Week here, week there. What a terrible way to live.  My niece had to live this way, and her Dad lived in a plumbing less, water less, heat and air less storage bldging rather than WORK for he didn't want to pay support. (got on disability, when HE could have been gainfully employed).  The law made her Have to live that way for a week, she was a teen in high school, and boy did she suffer under this mandated (best interest of the child bs)

 

I have also spoken to attornies that have "no sympathy" as the the courts here rule 50/50, on everything (regardless of fault) What you think, isn't how it is at all in the courts nowdays. No mercy for people like me (mostly stay at home) GOOD wives, who didn't like the abuse or the drinking (must prove it, must be charged with a drinking related crime etc.) .   Law says community, but in reality not everything is, still a male oriented system.

 

As for husband, well

 Husband appears to be postulating and attempting to make it appear I am somehow negligent as a mom. At least he was, know you are what am I, maybe for real. I don't actually know.

 

 Things we "talked" about regarding what I need, are now being used to crucify me, emotionally, anyway. His abandonment issues are in play while appearing to be supportive and a good Dad.  Hard to explain. . (for a while I thought it was just "my turn"  to take a class, go out (shopping) with my older girls etc. just "good wife/mom stuff" ie my  reward after supporting his career choices all my life, now I am not so sure what his motivations are, seems all his giving comes with price. Could be a set up, could be making me THINK it is a set up, who knows at this point).

 

Those are his comments. I was stay at home mostly for 20 plus years while he overworked (and played apparently).  Last year when he retired he told everyone he was going to be "Mr. Mom".  I had no intention of going to work, leaving or to  stop being full time/MOM. 

 

He has  also insisted he take her (youngest) to school and pick her up everyday from school............ (gave him something to do when retired as he had NO plans) also he has made a routine of light housework, (to keep him busy?) taking over the kitchen and all sorts of "designed to erase me stuff",  and doing what he "thinks" moms do.  I have heard many retired men make total nuicences sp? out of themselves. Could be that ....could be more.

 

Since divorice has been in the arguements, for a bit, sometimes I wonder what he is REALLY doing. Don't trust him. In fact I am still here, so that we wouldn't make her pay by living in two houses, for our inability to "get along".  And also at attornies advice.  No papers filed, but it was talked about. Clearly he would rather divorice, than look at self.  But wait, maybe not. I just don't know at this point.  He is no longer controlling me, as it appears, I don't care one way or the other.  Only I am NOT leaving the child or the house. That much I do know.

 

 I think such an ill thought out *by cutting a child in two* arrangement borders on child abuse. the courts call it fair.    She deserves her stability and MOM around all the time, especially since she is a girl, used to it,  and surrounded by her sisters and things.  I will not subject her to such "upheaveal" unless it gets totally awful.  I did take her on some "week" vacations to my mothers, to get away, and he kept chastizing me for taking her, telling me I could leave her hear while I "had down time".  Didn't bite that one.  Also, he keeps mentioning my "mental stability" and other things that I fear he is "orchestrating" to make him look good. You know the whole nine yards of postulating for the court.  Once I took, the money, it took some of his wind away. So it appears.

 

I have been advised NOT to leave her here for any reason for any amount of time,(days weeks)  to NOT leave the house (constitutes a lack of interest in it) and other things to protect myself and her right to be with me.

 

The truth of it is, I don't know how much is "idle control threats, and how much he really is setting himself up to "get what he wants", also childish attempts to "seperate charges, costs, bills and other stuff.  This was his "white line" and he was not liking not having the money club to control me with.  Too bad.

 

In reality, I think he was using a "last ditch" mind control to scare me off my telling him things have to change, and to get real, or I didn't see a future for us.  I had enough.  Still I have to tread cautiously. 

 

You, know you would think that the courts had an inkling, but honestly they don't.  No fault, mediation all the stuff really isn't fair, and with his "sterling" rep (if you don't count his being married before, and ignoring those children, when I didn't babysit) he could more than likely pull it off. Friends in high places, past experience with divorice, and pillar of respectibility and all. 

 

Against my "crazy woman lables" I don't trust it.  This is reality.  Being responsible for years, can easily be undone, if the right forces are behind him.  I know my  internal "emotional" outrage, wouldn't go over well to support me, in court.  Not in this state.  Especially in this county.

Women are being abused, dumped, and thumped regularly.  I also live in a VERY male chauv. countly.

 

Thinking something is fair (seeing us as  "victims" or target persons, and it BEING that way, are two entirely different things).  Right now I trust the courts less than I do him.  Horror tales abound, around here how the woman got screwed in court, just so some guy could get his revenge. 

 

I have been told the stupidest things, case sceaneiros by attornies myself. They have NO compassion, strickly business. Also there is a pretty large retirement account and clearly he has been advised how to "fairly" screw me out of most of it, break me financially if you will. Take the kid, the money, the house and send ME packing.  Clearly that is him again, looking out for number one.

 

 I have no idea if these are threats to control or in the future realities. I do know it isn't all blow hard, and he might just do that thing, and GET away with it. At the least she will be totally ripped apart, should he succeed.  So would I. Best to stay put, and plan, even if it takes me five years or more. 

 

 He doesn't think he will have to pay support, due to the large settlement.  Split the bills, and then he just doesn't pay them.   Men with money are just as dangerous as those without, trust me. I am entitled to retirement, but I can't  tap it for my defense fund. Clearly he could "outmoneyme" LEGALLY, and by the time it was over I could end up with very little, as he could hide and spend it all on sticking it to me. Nope, I don't want to go there until I am ready.

 

Reality?  I don't think he will  do jack, unless I start it ..........then he will destroy me if he can.  I don't TRUST anyone, (but me and me alone)  to truly have my interest at heart.   Decision made, on my part.  Taking the money (yes I realize that is counter abusive) locking it in a room, and giving him NO access but a very small allowance, assures me I can KNOW the status of things, and he can't "get me first".  For now he seems to be tolerating this approach. He could undo it if he was creative and ambitions, but he is neither right now. Buys me some time, to save.  At the least, he isn't yelling about what is being spent, could be a set up, I just don't know. Don't really care at this point.

 

This is all "payback" for telling him he could NOT live with me, if he continued to drink so much, drink and drive and behave disrespectfully and abusively. I don't know or care how much is going to come down or not, or if it is just mean man bluff. However, I am protecting me, and the situation is tolerable, if you stand firm and expect nothing.  Actually, funny enough we get along pretty good nowdays.  I  dont' know if it is to lull me or what. Emotionally not really that involved myself.

 

 

Sorry for the "lengthy".  Mostly here to just vent, speculate, share time with "birds of a feather" and not to dwell on my OWN personal situation.  I'm mostly hear for tea, and shared griping at this point.  I have a long term  plan (till she is older, I don't want to make her pick who she lives with, she loves her Dad too)

 

I get the money in order, or some other stuff is out of the way first) so I am really killing time.  He dares not be so "emotionally" abusive direct, as I will move forward.  Other things are pitts though, living with someone you cannot trust........is its own emotional abuse.

 

Oh yea, I have been the entire gammet of "self help" and know that mind change is the best self help tool.

Thanks for asking

 
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January 24, 2007, 5:15 am PST

Lables hurt, but they only stick if you let them

Quote From: imconcerned

Hi all, I have never posted here. The reason I am here today is b/c I have questions.

I know my husband is verbally abusive. I belive he is becoming physically abusive too, he had hit my in my sleep several times, constantly puts me down. Says I'm a bad mom, bad wife, stupid, will never amout to anything. Then also tells me that he is not being abusive I just take things the wrong way. I do love my husband and can not live this way. We recently sepperated b/c of this but I can not raise a child on my own (finanically). I know everyone is thinking that I should not be w/ him and that leaving is the only thing to do, but what do I do when I can't leave? I have no where to go, no money, and a 2 yr old!!! 

 Ok, so you love your husband.  Every woman does. Even the bad ones are nice sometimes.  Even the best, do bad things.  Yours is doing something VERY bad, and you need to be a good mom, and your own support system.  Do it now, immediately and he "might wake up" and see His mistake.   Either way, if you do nothing I guarentee you will have a lifetime of this.  You are letting him know it is ok, if you do nothing.

 

Also you NEED his support right now.  What he is doing is NOT supportive at all. You don't have to stop needing it, just realize he isn't going to give it. Jealousy takes hold of men, when little children are around, as does resentment (he has to work you don't?).  He is doing the adult form of sibling rivaliry. It is that simple.  A childish, and mean, and abusive stunt to get you onto him, and away from the child. He is backing this up with the physical "punishment". 

 

You can't mess around with this, nor tolerate it.  You life, and your childs welfare are not worth his "stuff". Your baby/child could get hurt inadvertantly.  A woman is no match for a "hitting man". No way no how, you can't even affort to defend yourself physically, not with a child around. Please get out to anywhere, but there. Don't go back without dealing with this for what it is..........physical assault. You ARE NOT SAFE THERE, neither is your child. 

 

 

He is "thinking" and wants you to too, that you "have no where to go".  In reality nothing could be farther from the truth.   Here, in TX. all you would have to do is to walk, run, drive or otherwise get to the Sheriff or police and they immediately  take you to "hidden" shelters where you can be safe, get training for employment, get a divorice (pro bono), and get shelter, money, clothes, toys, help, counseling and everything for FREE.

 

Try and look  at this factually, not emotionally.   This will help you, help you. I know it is hard, especially since you are feeling more vulnerable that ever.  Giving up a day job, having a small child, or both have you "man down" right now, but are you really?

 

In reality, most states and counties have shelters, financial aid, and other things for mothers without fathers, or with childishly abusive ones.  Call Women in Need, or Abuse hotlines. Frankly I would not hang around to make a call, I would go to the PD, or Sheriff in person, Immediately. If not there somewhere where he cannot find you, until you can make a call. Take minimal, stuff, checkbook or anything you and child might need for a couple of days, any money keys imp. papers you need for identification, ss card, drivers lic. etc. and get OUT now.

 

Do not for one minute think anything he calls you makes it so.  He is mind controlling. And physically abusing.   You can counter this (unless you fear more physical abuse, which is why he may have started that.) by showing yourself capable of protecting you and the child.  In this case, don't mess around, go immediately to a shelter.  You have a two year old to protect, where will he/she be without MOM?  Be a good mom, as we know you are, being a good mom is making sure he/she 2 yr old has one. 

 
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January 25, 2007, 6:03 am PST

Thank you for the compassion

Quote From: figuritout

There is nothing wrong with venting; most of us do it all the time here.  I know I've done my share.  Sometimes, it's good just to get it all out and make ourselves understood.  I hope that it makes you feel better.

 

The court seems to look at who has been taking care of the children over the years.  If you have always been the one to take them to the doctor, dentist, school functions, etc, it might work to your advantage if you want full custody.  I had a husband, but I basically have raised the kids myself.  I told him that they were happy with me and he signed the papers that I asked the lawyer to prepare, giving me full custody.  He had also been talking of having me go to work full time so he could stay home.  It worked better for me to stay home till this was all negotiated.  The kids really have needed me at home.  However, I do need to find a job soon.  I understand why you're waiting it out until you're ready.  I did that for many years.  I'm not sure if it was best for everyone, but it worked out in the end.  I hope it does for you, too.

  I am so sorry to hear that someone else dealt with this, expecially in the same way.  Sometimes I think it is harder to deal with this type abuse, because it is so hard to put your finger on it.   Many wouldn't even call it abuse emotional or otherwise.  To me it is like breaking up.  (very poor analogy, put the shocker value, and indignant feelings are the same)

 The guy doesn't bother to tell the girl it's over, just lets her figure it out the hard way, and gets meaner and meaner to "drive" her out rather than deal in ANY honesty.  (in truth I jilted his behavior then him, but he refused to be broken up with)

 

Only thing is you share kids, home, finances,  a lifetime, decisions made based on being together (giving up your day job, for the job of home and family),  Suddenly they just get mean, where they were just self centered and neglectful.   Of course BOTH are your fault, like overgrown, immature and spoiled children.  Sometimes I would have been better off, which I figured out, and so I "gave" him what he appeared to want, his "walking papers",  however giving him what he wanted "backfired" and now he also BLAMES me for his wanting it.

 

I am well aware my  "digging in" and counter abuses are NOT good for anyone.  Held against the alternatives, they do make sense.  It was a hard decision.  However, for many many reasons, I  see no good coming out of my leaving my home, or my childrens home, no matter how unbearable it gets (without the physical).  It has been pretty unbearable at times, the most of which is living with the "changed" person I have become, and the things I did in "self defense" to hold to truth, mine anyways, and my children and home.

 

Leaving would have been easier emotionally.............but I know I would live to regret that, every attorney I spoke to said that to leave constitutes a "lack of interest" in the homestead.  I also had many tell me to "get a job", when I know that would be used as an abandonment issue in my case, or worse I would be "sabotouged" by spouse. The reality is right now, or immediately I don't NEED a job, other than for insurance, unless of course something goes really bad, or he has time to figure out how to "hide" assets, which is why I took the finances and locked em up. (years ago I tried some system so he couldn't use our money as a club to my behavior) I wish I would have thought of this sooner, to tell you the truth. (funny how CLEAR you can think, when the "feelings" are gone, or overcome isn't it?  That is why one MUST detach. 

 

We can't THINK what is best for us, when we are distracted by what our hearts want.  Goals and priorities have to change.  That takes us women way too long to do.

 

 The reality is it is in stalemate as his attorney's (a friend of 20 plus years) more than likely told him the same thing.  I find it odd that after 25 or more years of having very little interest in wife, home or children,  other than his personal "feel good" hotel,  suddenly he wants it all, just like it was in the beginning BEFORE he neglected them all.   He will sacrifice wife, but still wants it all as if I just don't exist (not as a sweetie, but a force entitled to half or more based on work I did in the marrige)

 

Dealing with the lies,  (his to me and mine to me) has been very hard  too.  He worked so much from the very beginning that it made it "easy" to have his cake and eat it too.  I "suspected" but could never prove he was anything but the most hardworking husband,  with misplaced priorities. 

 

I realize I do talk about HIM alot, but look at it like the flu, or a disability.   He is no longer a "person" to me in the sense I have detached from any CARING. This is what I mean about "head changes".   I am now totally aware that "THIS" is his personality, probably always was and so harbor NO hope for any lasting change into the man I needed, still need, and will always need.  (and like most THOUGHT I was marrying 29 years ago)

 

The "shock" of realizing what you are dealing with, still gets me from time to time, as nice people just cannot comprehend there are people with no compassion, no empathy or any other goal in life but to put self first, in EVERY situation.  They can be nice enough when getting EVERYTHING their way, but totally switch personalities if not. THOSE OUT THERE QUESTIONING ABUSE OR NOT PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE PERSONALITY "SHIFTS", notice how quick the postulating or nice guy goes away.  As time goes on they get closer and closer together.  The "bad" on becomes the person.   Almost always good guy gets smaller and smaller.  Bad feeds bad (oh I have a great poem, Indian, that says that very thing, will try and post it , it is about two wolves).

 

Thank you again, your maturity and calm is what I needed. Bless you thru all eternity

 

 

 
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January 26, 2007, 5:41 am PST

document

Quote From: inabubble

Flew to FL for court hearing ($500 airfare), went to court and my husband was there.  (Still not served Divorce Papers).  MY ATTY DID NOT SHOW UP.  Needless to say, It was more than I could handle.  My husband tortured me in the elevator at court house and the ABUSE continues.  They had the opportunity to serve him.  They did not.  My attorney did not even call.  The judge was very upset and lectured me about his valuable time.  I flew back  to MA and went to work.  I faxed my attorney a letter.  I told her this was not acceptable and I deserved an explanation.  I told her I QUIT.  I cannot continue to fight this battle.  Tomorrow they are forclosing on my home, my possessions are all being removed as we speak (my neighbor told me) and I paid an attorney more than $8000 and I am nowhere.  He WON.  I am tired.  I tried and FAILED.  The system failed me, the sherrifs office believed the abuser, the court system does not work.  

I haven't been here long enough to follow your situation.  Sounds pretty "abusive" in so far as your dealings with the court system.  Just from this post I would like to offer the following suggestions.

 

DOCUMENT. See if you can get the courts to send you in writing (or pick it up if close enough) a letter from the judge, court clerk or anyone confirming documenting  that your attorney didn't show up.  Note the time, date,  and expense you are out. 

Gather anything else that supports any incidences of  "non representation" by your attorney. Get this with any dates and times, and amounts you are out  in front of you, and (copies). Then call your local bar association.  (every county/city  has one they are supposed to monitor attornies practicing in that city/county/parrish etc,  it is a local office, or they do in Texas).  You may or may not get to talk to anyone locally, but then get the address and send them the documentation you are needing to gather or do both.  Ask your attorney to send you a statement in writing why he/she didn't show up (paper trail here is what you need). 

 

Then send all copies including a brief chrono of events, no show, no file etc. along with asking for what happened of your attorney, INSIST THAT HE/SHE put their "explaination in writing" for your records.

 

We are talking anything that can PROVE, or add suspicion that your attorney has taken your money without representing you, like I said send it to the local (city) and state bar association.  This needs documented.  For your protection, and to alert these associations to possible attorney "fraud". 

 

 If you make calls write down the date and time and who you spoke to, at which office (better to send all info "proof" to the attorney involved and to the state bar assoc local  and state offices.  KEEP copies for yourself)

 

 This may protect you somewhat in any future dealings, with your ex. and with the local governement offices supposed to protect  and help you.   Or to get your possessions back, or "frozen" from sale due to pending court case  (ask  the county or who ever is taking the stuff about things tied up in court.  To my knowledge, here in Texas you cannot take someone "personal possessions or car) FIND OUT.

 

 Get the local abuse orgainization alerted that this attorney is "hostile" or ineffective. Public pressure.  See if they have any "pro bono" representation to stop this maddness NOW, before it becomes a done deal. You may qualify if all your resources have gone to an attorney that didn't represent you. ASK.

 

Realize that nothing may come of this, but you have done what  you can to protect your interest, even if your attorney did not.  Also he may claim it was YOU that was the no show, so keep any paper trail that you did what YOU were supposed to.

 

 This happened to my sister, and while the attorney "took her money and did nothing" not even to file temp orders or freeze assets, her ex. had all the time in the world to strip bank and retirement accounts and "out money" her. He too abused with the system, and NEVER sold property he was ordered to sell, and so she was now "too broke" to take him back to court, to get half of the money (to clear her debts incurred through the divorice and getting another house) from the sale of THEIR property, which he still lives on. 

 

 He too won, using the "courts" lack of action or concern to HIS favor. It happens. (much more that it should, it is a tactic used to man down the woman KNOWINGLY by some "in Cahoots attorneys, deal made under the table for one to misrepresent a client so they will LOOSE, for inside  favors and kickback, in our county, corruption abounds, to the degree that the "big city" attorneys will NOT accept cases in these corrupt counties)

 

Do remember that you are "free"..... broke, and frustrated, and TIRED but free.  Sometimes freedom comes at a high price.  I am so sorry this has happened to you, and that another system has let another woman down.

 

(Nothing may come of this, other than you being protected .  Sometimes all it does is earn the attorney a reprimand) It is essential that you have your documentation in order, to protect YOU, from the attorney's fasle accusation that you were the "no show". Attorney's lie to protect self too!

 
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January 26, 2007, 6:13 am PST

Act to protect

Quote From: bedazzled

Hi there, well, it's been a while since I have visisted this section of the board, I guess it just testimony to the phrase " rarely, if at all, do these abusers change"

 

My ex is now seeing a woman that he had an affair with 7 years ago, needless to say,  none of us are pleased about this. This person gave both me and my kids a hard time when my husband and I reconciled. It got so bad, I had to pull my kids out of the same school, it was a horrible time in our lives,

 

My ex is now happily involved with her once again, and now he is desperately trying to get the kids to accept her. My kids don't care that he sees her, but they want nothing to do with her, and have told him repeatedly, they want NOTHING to do with her!

 

Today they went over for access, he showed them a wedding invitation and her name was on there, as well as my kids. One thing led to another and my middle son, expressed his feelings, saying if she was going, he was not!

 

Things escalated, a few heated words were said and then my ex grabbed my son and pushed him up against a mirror, with his hands firmly AROUND MY SONS THROAT!! My son called me to come pick him up, he was in a bad way, he was both angry and upset. Before he left, he punched a hole in his fathers wall, this is NOT something I condone, I  know he was extremely hurt and angry, I told him that was not what I want for him, violence is NOT the answer.

 

My daughter witnessed the whole thing, she was throwing things at her father to leave her brother alone, she was crying and yelling at him to stop! My oldest son was working at the time, so he missed this, I do not know how he would have handled it, he was very affected by the violence when his dad lived here.

 

I don't know what to do, if I say anything to the ex, it only falls on deaf ears, he thinks he is always right and it's everybody else that is WRONG. He sent my son a message saying that he has a house inspection monday and " just you wait pal"

 

I can't believe this is happening,  surely he can understand why the kids do not welcome this person with open arms? He told my son that he didn't have an affair, he didn't have sex!.....mmmm just what a 14yr old wants to hear from his dad......how mature!

 

I would appreciate any advice as to what I should do for my kids, I don't think that anyone should be forced upon them.

 

Many thanks...

 First, see if anyone in your local law enforcement will come out to take a report of child abuse. Insist they send an officer out.  Sheriff, pd or what ever your local law enforcement is..........if not that then the local child welfare office. Ask to speak to a case worker. You children seem old enough to be credible.  Say nothing or as little as possible yourself. Let your children relay the order of events. (you do not want to seem to be coaching the kids as to what to say).

 

Once you have a record or report. Even a paper trail of your attempt to do something about this. Dates, calls made and times etc.

 

 Ask for an immediate hearing with the judge, courts or attorney or anyone involved with the custody.  ANYONE you have dealt with that has been involved with the case (a sympathatic ear, may move mountains or get others to). You kids may NOT be legally bound to see him, due to their ages.  Laws vary each state.

 

If possible, once you have attempted to or have documentated this "incident", return to the attorney or abuse shelter attorney (pro bono) if your resourced are depleated, and demand an immediate rehearing concerning visitation or joint custody.  Ask to speak with a court ordered or approved child mediator, anyone.

 

 The systems are there USE THEM, get resourcefull as to who you call. JP, Sherriff, local pd, shelters, child welfare.  Tell anyone and everyone that possibly could help you, tell the school what happened.  They are required by law to report abuses and may be taken more seriously than you.  Have your children schedule a meeting with the school counselor.  Now SHE MUST report it to someone. Be careful NOT to be coaching or fabricating at all.  Let your children REPORT what happened to authorities.

 

Insist you offer your children protection, have a plan what they are  ok to do or  something that gives them a safe exit, should this happen again  or if the need to doso  should this EVER happen again. 

 

Tell them, yes he is Dad, but it is OK to call pd, if you feel "bodily harm" is occurring. Give them numbers to call for help, should it happen again.  If you don't document this, YOU may find to your suprise he files "parent alienation" on you, or interferring with HIS right to visitation, by picking them up.  LIARS LIE, ABUSERS LIE.  He is "out of control" and your family is used to "taking it" with nowhere to turn.  Find out where to turn. If one system fails go to another again and again sometimes it pays off, if not they will have your name on record as ATTEMPTING to do something.  (sympathitic ears can work wonders).   Reports, calls, TELL is the key word here. Document, and protect yourself, and your children.

 

If you don't use "the system and the grapevine, you cannot protect your kids".  Do not battle this alone, NEVER give up or think you can.  Your children are NOT his hitting posts. TELL TELL TELL.  Remain calm, let you kids do the talking.  Support their right to see their DAD verbally, but support their rights through TELLING what he does during these "visitations".  Oh yea take them to the doctor to be checked, again documentation, let THEM tell the doctor what happened. He too must report abuse (maybe?, not sure about that one) but you will  have the PAPER that you went (in reality some damage may have occurred).

 

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