Messages By: davewriter

The biggest thing we learned for every actions there is a reaction and we didn't want the reaction. When I was in twelve grade someone threw freshly chewed gum in my hair and I was so mad all I saw was red. I took it out my head and started to throw it back. Guess who got in trouble? ME.

She called me up and put on the stage (it was in speech class0 took her paddle out and whipped in front of the entier class. I didn't feel it because I had so many slips on but it taught me a lesson and what do you think it was? Two wrongs never make a right or for action there is a reaction I never forgot that and that is the way I have lived.

Okay, you got paddled in your senior year of high school for throwing gum?  Twelfth grade?  LMAO.  Not to criticize you like this, but did it ever occur to you to maybe scan for the perp from your desk, then RAISE YOUR HAND and INFORM THE TEACHER?  Or else wait until the teacher was through lecturing, then go up to her, show her the gum and tell her that somebody threw it at you.  Maybe then, you would’ve been “spared the rod” so to speak.

I may not be as old as you, but that’s the approach I would’ve taken if that had happened to me in twelfth grade, but then again, I’ve never had that happen to me, as I remember, and I’ve been bullied in middle school quite a bit.  Maybe “Think before you act” should be on that list of lessons.

This letter was printed in Dear Abby today.  I thought just of the discipline boards when I re-read it, and thought it would fit very well in the Too Much Discipline boards.  The words and advice printed just may give some parents something to think about:

DEAR ABBY: I'm a normal 10-year-old girl, but when my mom gets mad, I get scared. She doesn't hit me, but I still feel panicked when she's mad.

My siblings have told me they're scared of her, too. I don't have anyone to turn to because my mom and dad are both only children.

Please tell me what to do. Should I wait until I'm older, or should I say something now? I'm confused and really scared of her. What should I do? -- SCARED IN SAN DIEGO

DEAR SCARED: Talk to your mother about your feelings now. You are reaching an age when you should be able to safely confide all of your concerns to her and be able to communicate without being afraid she will overreact. Because you and your siblings are all afraid, your mother may be expressing her frustration in a way that is not appropriate.

If the situation doesn't improve after you and your siblings talk to her, perhaps another adult can make her understand her behavior is counterproductive. Your dad, a close friend of hers, the mother of one of your friends, or a trusted teacher or school counselor may be able to help.

Wow!  I stay away from the “Spanking: Useful or Cruel” board on here because of all the infighting and spouting off and other childish behaviours (not to mention off-topic posts,) only to come back and see that not only has this board surpassed the 2500-post mark at such rapid speed, but also to read MORE “Gone With the Wind”-like posts full of copying and pasting passages from quoted posts with smart remarks in between.  And all courtesy of this CoachJoe dude and a gal named jodiewaller.  Seriously, where are the moderators when you need them?

Really, from the way you’ve been posting, it sounds like you “adults” are acting like children.  Drop your pants so I can give YOU a spanking!  LOL!

Seriously, CoachJoe, judging from your posts that I have read, it seems that you are a man of little patience and serious stress and frustration issues.  You say you have three children, all of whom are out of control, non-spanking punishments have rarely worked, how does the spanking work, really?  Combined with the problems you’re having with your wife, it seems that one (or both) of you needs parenting classes in the worst way.  Or here’s a better idea summed up in one word: Supernanny.

Could it be that your children are starving for one-on-one attention from you?  I think that’s what may help here.  Is there any need for you to be working all the time?  7 AM to 5 PM, instead of the normal 9 to 5, or 7 to 3?  Dr. Phil has always stated that if needs be, sell the house and live in a one-room shack with an outhouse to work less hours.  You say you have grounded them from Playstation, X-box and everything else; try selling some of those things, along with the television, and see if this helps cut back on electricity and cable bills.  If your children are acting out in this kind of manner, it’s more than likely because they’re craving for you to pay more attention.  A dog would touch your lap to let you know he needs you to take him out so he can use the bathroom.

And for goodness sakes, do something with your wife.  If she is always screaming at you and accusing you of stupid crap, then it’s obvious that the kids are picking up on this, taking cues from her, then something is wrong in the family, and it’s very likely that they don’t respect you because you won’t do anything about it.  You need professional marriage counselling, my friend, and you should go together.  If your wife won’t comply, go alone.  You will know from that if this marriage is worth saving.  If that doesn’t work, then maybe you need to consider separation and a good, inexpensive divorce lawyer who can help.  If it comes down to that, you need to be there for you boys as much as you can.  Again, spending some quality time with them when you can can and will help.

It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to know that you’re in a severely dysfunctional family and you need help.  I hope you will heed this advice.  I will be praying for you.

First of all, let me say that even though I don’t know you, I am terribly sorry for what you and other parents like you are going through.  I’ve read all your stories on these boards, and they are so tragic.  I know if I had a special needs child of my own, I’d do whatever it takes to be heard.  Forget the rules and regulations, and demand that the principal do something.  Believe me, I can loud and vocal when need be.

This is why I can’t stand self-absorbed, self-righteous, “all about me” teachers and parents who just write off a child’s disability as an excuse for said child to act out of control, and then call parents in that situation “lazy” and “uninvolved” because they refuse to take a hand or belt to them.  If only these people would take time out to educate themselves about these disabilities and the lifelong physical and mental effects, and how they react to corporal punishment, they’d be able to develop lots of much-needed patience.  (And God forbid these self-righteous parents ever end up parenting a special needs child with serious mental conditions!)

Teachers, stop and think about why you chose this career in the first place.  To make a difference in the world, inspire these kids, enrichen their lives, and give them a love of learning, right?  Why else would teaching be so glorified by people as such a wonderful profession?  Stop complaining about how there’s so many kids in the classroom, so many papers to correct and reports to write – all that paperwork, so many meetings to go to, and so little money you’re earning.  I agree, if you can’t handle all of this, then you’re in the wrong profession and need to get out.  If you’re clearly in it for the money, then I suggest you go back to college and enrol in Business Administration!  Trust me, you’ll be sure to get a job quicker and earn more money!

I remember when I was a little boy; I wanted to be a teacher myself.  But I was wrapped up in the fantasy that all it consisted of was just standing up at the blackboard lecturing students, sitting at a big desk correcting papers as students worked quietly, and dolling out discipline when the occasion called for it.  When I realized it was more than that (especially attending school division meetings while students had that day off), I changed my mind completely.  Now, I am an aspiring novelist and short story writer.  Interestingly, my current novel project is about a young man with severe cerebral palsy who uses his past and present experiences (school, family, etc.) to become a controversial radio host.  This is something I settled on in eighth grade, and I do not regret this decision.

Believe me, dear lady, you have my sympathy.

Amen, Amen and AMEN!

To the teacher who replied to the quoted post: Unless your overly strict parents told you straight out: “Listen, child, you either become a teacher or a/n [insert even less glamorous profession here], nothing else,” and you had no other choice but to teach, THEN I can agree with you that the show was one-sided.  But as I see it, you CHOSE the teaching profession willingly; you’re going to tell me it chose you?  As a teacher, you need to prepare for things like severely disabled/handicapped/retarded children, and parents who UNREALISTICALLY think that putting them in a mainstream classroom will make them feel “normal” (as if many of them have much of a chance to begin with.)  Again, why did you become a teacher?  To make a difference in the world and inspire a new generation of future adults?  Or was it to fulfill some obligation to prove your worthiness to a doubting society?  If you feel that all the kids and disabilities and paperwork, etc. are too much to keep your head above water, then by all means, feel free to bail out a pursue a different career.  Many Americans think about career change and go for such opportunities on a daily basis.  Maybe you should, too.  But in your case, maybe it’s time for you to retire.

To the person I quoted, thanks for speaking on behalf of the special needs parents who are realists, and want to protect those who can’t protect themselves.  You deserve some praise.

First of all, did I SAY that teachers aren’t realists?  No, I did not.  What I said was that some special needs parents get this crazy idea in their heads that their children, no matter how physically and mentally damaged they are, can grow up healthy and normal like regular kids.  When it comes to the limitations in abilities and behaviours, the have their blinders on, convinced their children can go the distance if they learn self-control and put their minds to it, so to speak, and they refuse to listen to psychologists and doctors who say that special education schools are the path they need to go down.  Now, it’s one thing if you can’t find such a school in your hometown.  But to take full advantage of NCLB, and put that child in a mainstream classroom with regular students just because you have a parental point to prove is risky and oftentimes dangerous, unless you have a team of teacher’s aides at your disposal.  Unfortunately, with the economy the way it is, who can afford to hire them, right?

These parents, my dear lady, are the ones who are not realists.  My question to you, the teacher, is “Are you able to handle such a situation?”  Believe me, if I were in this position, I will be listening to the doctors and putting my child in a special education school.  If my potential wife has a problem with it, too bad.  She needs to educate herself on my child’s disability-related limitations and the behaviour problems that come with it, and learn to discipline according to doctor’s advice, first and foremost.

And LMAO at me complaining about my job.  As my handle suggests, I’m aspiring to become a writer, and I have a business communications package with 25 documents that I believe I’m going to wow potential employers with.  I’m sure I’ll enjoy my job wherever I get hired.  I spend too much time in my apartment as it is; it’d be good to get out for a few hours a day.  Everyone wants that kind of life, right?  As well, I hope I can get several short stories published on the side.  And another thing, I chose writing in the eighth grade, just as you chose teaching, when I discovered I had mad skills.  (I much prefer words to numbers, anyway.)  Trust me, this is one profession I won’t be leaving in my lifetime.

First off, where do you and your father live, and where does your mother live?  It doesn’t sound as if your mother is the proper candidate to raise your son, as she is obviously not doing a good job.  It is one thing if you push your teenager to grow up so fast by making them hold down a job and teach them how to cook and manage their money, etc., at an early age.  It is quite another if you are letting them drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes in your own home, as if think it is OK for them to do these things.  And how does she react and discipline your brother for not going to school full days, getting kicked out of school and stealing?  If the answer is “not much,” or if her rages are triggering your brother to act out of control, then it’s clear that she needs some serious professional help in improving her skills.

I will say this until the day I drop dead – you need to balance the concepts of parents and friend if you want the exact amount of respect you desire from your kids.  And your mother is going over the edge with the friend thing – not the best idea.

I suggest you and your father indeed take your brother in.  It will be definite that he will have issues, so I urge to be open with him, and encourage him to be open with you – no secrets.  Tell him that you know your having problems, and you know he probably misses his mother, but she does not have what is best for you in her mind.  Don’t judge him, don’t make threats and don’t be lectureous.  Then, insist that he go to school full time and hold down a good-paying part-time job.  And most of all, don’t speak ill of the mother to him, to give him any ideas.

As for the mother, I would definitely take her to court for custody, especially if that she wants.  Have you tried talking to her about your brother’s behaviour?  If not, I suggest you do; if you have, and she will not listen (and insist that there’s nothing with what she’s doing), then I would agree with HER (LOL) that legal action needs to be taken.  However, when you bring up all the boy’s behaviour problems when presenting your case, she should not be surprised if custody goes to you and your father.  Anyone with half a brain would read your story and agree that your father has the most stable environment.  I wish you the best of luck you may need.

Okay, I’ve just finished watching the show as I post this, and I have a message for Judy #1 (aka: Grandma Claus).  First of all, I wish my budget was nearly as big as yours, so I could decorate my apartment just like you do your house.  One hundred snowmen?  Singing Santas everywhere?  All those Christmas trees and snow and ice decorations.  You could give Martha Stewart a run for her money, lady… LOL!  I have just one criticism, though… what is up with all those gifts.  Seriously, an umbilical cord?  Dog poo from some novelty shop?  A FETUS?  My family would wonder what was going through my head if I gave those things away!  As for your grandchildren, I can understand wanting to give them one to two gifts each (and something they could use and enjoy, no less.)  But, in my very humble opinion, twenty to thirty gifts each is going a little overboard.  People will look at all the kids with all that stuff, and think they’re being spoiled, including their own friends.  Why not just ask the grandchildren what they want/need for Christmas, and buy just those things for them?  That’ll help keep your Christmas spirit without breaking the bank for you.

As for Judy #2, I can see your point about Christmas, then again, I can’t.  I like to make stuff for my family at Christmas – CD’s with downloaded music, calendars complete with my own drawings.  If I had the right amount of paper and art supplies and even a picture frame, I could draw and colour a picture and give it as a gift for that person to hang in their living room.  But one year, my older sister was giving me this lecture, saying, “what is people don’t like CD’s or calendars or pictures?”  She then tells to find out what it is that people like and are interested in, and then see if you can buy it for them.  Um, excuse me, but not all of us have the money and/or time to go out and do all that Christmas shopping for fifty or so people on their list.  I may have the transportation needs to get to the mall, but my current income is a little less than eight hundred dollars.  Every year, I use Microsoft Word to make a one page Christmas card with ClipArt and WordArt, which I then e-mail to everyone in my contact list.  So it’s either hand-made thoughts or nothing at all.  So yes, Christmas is a bit overrated in that sense.  But there’s no need to be such a frosty pants.  I remember Dr. Phil doing a show around this time where a woman got a gift so horrible, she developed the “Anniversary Syndrome” in losing her Christmas spirit.  Something is obviously depressing you, Judy, and it has to be more than just the commercialism of the holiday.  Grandma Claus is right, Christmas is supposed to be about spread joy and happiness as well as the birth of Christ.  Maybe if you tried to cheer up, you could enjoy the holiday a little more.

Or maybe you lost a loved one over the holidays.  That’s understandable in every way.  I lost my mother to diabetes the day after Christmas when I was eleven years old.  Since then, my father hasn’t been much about putting up lights and decorations unless other people encourage him.  Then on Christmas morning in 2001, I lost my maternal grandmother.  So Christmas is just another day for my family and me, despite all the gifts we get.

Now, how’s this for a holiday headache.  Imagine a member of your own family (your mother, mother-in-law, sister or whoever) telling your young child (I’m talking children as young as 4, 5, 6 or 7) that Santa Claus does not really exist, that he’s just a mythological figure.  And when you confront said family member, (s)he just tells you that (s)he doesn’t believe in lying to children, and that they need to know the difference between what’s real and what isn’t early, or something else similar, something about children having unrealistic expectations later in life.  Who has dealt with this, and how would/did you handle this scenario?  The responses would be interesting.

Well, it seems that not only are these old discipline boards dead, but apparently, some people have definitely ran this CoachJoe off the boards for good with his/her malicious anti-spanking preaching.  Let me tell you right now, that I would never get that vicious.  But I would like to ask CoachJoe (who seems to anally favour spanking) a very important question – do you have any children or know of any children with severe disabilities in both physical and mental endurance?  I’m talking about children with sever effects of cerebral palsy as well as Shaken Baby Syndrome and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

Now, I know I’ve posted this in the “Spanking Scandals” message boards before, but I see you also posted there, but you may not have seen my message, so this is for you.  Question: if you found out that your wife was drinking and drugging up her pregnancy so bad, and you learned the baby would come out severely retarded as a result, what would you do?  If you got so angry with one of your sons as babies, would you even think of shaking them so badly, that you would cause them to have brain damage?  I’m assuming you already know this, but that’s what Shaken Baby Syndrome is.  How would you respond if you were in this boat?  Any paediatrician in the country – maybe the world – will tell you that spanking this child even on the buttocks will be ineffective; not only will he not listen to you, but he will also be more stressed out – and probably more defiant –than before.  As a father who is obviously big on authority and expectations for children, this won’t be the result you’ll be wanting.

Google “Shaken Baby Syndrome” or “Fetal Alcohol Syndrome,” and you’ll find a wealth of information websites about these lifelong causes.  I’ve especially noticed that in websites for the former, they don’t have a section on discipline measures for children.  That’s because these children cannot comprehend right from wrong like normal children can.  It would be a better idea to get down to this child’s level and explain in a calming voice that was he did was very naughty, and that he should never do that again.  Or simply redirect him to something more constructive.  The only thing is you probably need to watch this child 24/7/365, as he needs round the clock care.  I doubt you’re the type of father who would be up for that.

If you’re interested, I’ve written two stories that combine corporal punishment with serious disabilities.  The first story is “Valerie.”  In this story, the title character decides to get her SBS-ridden son away from her husband, who spanks and beats the boy for chronic misbehaviour just because he has a parental point to prove.  (She heeds doctor’s advice, uses common sense and refuses to spank her son for this reason.)  When she wins sole custody in a quickie divorce, she moves to the big city and falls in love with a group of police officers, and they adopt her thinking, despite their own views on spanking. Unfortunately, she encounters people at work, and few family members (even in her beaux’s families) who apparently agree with her husband on this issue, and they criticize her parenting techniques.  Which side are you on?

You probably think this should be left up to the parents, but it isn’t wise to let your hunger for authority and order cloud your common sense.

I've also started a brand new novel project called "Broken Family Portrait."  It's about a cerebral palsic young man named Robin Callbeck (ne: Marchland) who uses his life experiences to become a controversial radio personality.  He has many physical and learning disabilities, including a brain filter that does not work, so he has a real problem with talking back to elders and peers.  Robin is a non-believer in family togetherness, and for good reason.  As a young child, he suffered physical abuse at his father's hands, and his mother only stays because of the begging of his family-obsessed older sisters, Abilene and Olivia (though Abilene is the worse one here.)  Mrs. Marchland divorces her husband anyway, and because she holds herself fully responsible for how her son turned out, obligates herself to be both parent and friend to him (which Robin prefers.)  She later marries a police officer who is also parent and friend to Robin.  As you can tell, Robin is anti-spanking, and this does not change after he becomes a parent.  Meantime, Abilene and Olivia are rude and disrespectful to their mother as the strive to break up the new family (a "fake family" as they call it) in pushing her to get back together with their real father.  When she refuses, they hold the divorce over her head, so to speak, as they do the same to Robin.

In the novel, Robin has the following experiences, among many others:

• fights with high school student peers who claim that they were spanked and belted as often as Robin, who actually support this measure all the way.
• loses his drivers license after a very short time when he is hospitalized, after a horrific car accident involving the wife and family of one of his stepfather's colleagues.
• has a tumultuous marriage in which the wife constantly cheats on him with members of public authority and "men in uniform."  (She even sleeps with two of Robin's sisters' husbands, both of whom are in the military.)  DNA shows Robin is the father of her twin boys, but not her younger son, which leads to divorce.
• deals with Abilene and Olivia's husbands, both of whom are a lot older than the sisters (this happens after their father dies), and who physically, verbally, mentally and emotionally abuse both their wives and children.  Robin ends up living with one of them after the divorce, when she bores a mentally retarded child born three months too early.  Both sisters refuse to leave because of their children, although Olivia begins to have trust issues with her husband.
• embarks on a long tour of the United States as a result of his popularity, in which he takes along his children and sister that he’s living with.  Unfortunately, this results in her husband throwing Robin and his sons out, and they have to live with Robin's other older sister, Susan, and her husband.
• makes friends with a young widowed father who is also anti-spanking because of a special needs child (following doctors' orders.)  When his friend is murdered by a pro-spanking couple who keeps threatening them, Robin soon learns of other related murders in other parts of the country, and makes a connection with the suspects.
• gets confronted by the group of pro-spanking parents (four adult siblings and their spouses) whom he believes killed his friend and the other anti-spanking special needs parents a few years earlier.  This angry group gangs up and tries to kill Robin, but when he recovers, not only does it fuel his anti-spanking stance, he wants to see justice done to the pro-spankers.

I’ve posted both stories on the Internet, but can’t post the links because they won’t work.  You probably won’t see this, but if you do, and you’re interested, e-mail me at davewriter2003@yahoo.com and I’ll gladly send the stories your way.

As I’ve said before, these boards are probably dead now, so this message probably won’t get a single response.  But I’m sure you’ll have something to say about this.  And if you don’t reply, I’ll at least have the honour of posting the very last post in this section before these boards are closed to new posts forever.