Messages By: chikara1

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December 3, 2005, 2:07 am PST

safe harbor

Quote From: melgal

Hi, 

  

I am new to this board...I usually am on the weight group message board but I have a new struggle ahead and decided to look for support. I just lost my baby  4 days ago,at 11 weeks...This was my second pregnancy. I have a beautiful son from my first....i am lucky....I have read a few posts from here and I realize that my situation could be a lot worse. My heart goes out to all of you who have been through this...I am wondering....does it get easier? When I see tiny babies I want to scream....I am wondering how to pick up the pieces and try again....my ob said that I can try as soon as i have a normal cycle but with the terrible health care that I have received through this I am not sure I can try again. any advice from you is welcome. 

  

Mel 

Mel: 

  

I wish I could push the clock ahead for you so you could already have gone through all that you have to go through! My third child, a daughter, was stillborn and would have been 16 years old this past October. She was fullterm and beautiful. My husband and I were devastated and in shock. He had added "male burden" of not being able to fix this. I was absolutely bound and determined that I was going to somehow survive this awful loss. I'm pretty strong, independent and rarely ask anybody for help.  

  

But this time I knew I had to let myself be cared for, that I had to let myself receive the outpouring of love and shared sorrow. No one could make it better. No one could say the right thing but they all wanted to and that's what mattered. We all knew that no one could give me what I really wanted (my baby!) but their love and caring had to be enough.  

  

Somehow, I instinctively knew that I had to let myself fully feel my pain, even if the grief was completely overwhelming. I was afraid that if I didn't let myself feel this fully, then the unresolved grief would sneak up on me years down the road and bite me in the butt! So, I let my grief overtake me when it needed to, which usually happened when I was taking a shower. I just let myself completely feel the pain, let it wash over me, and then, slowly, for that time, it would recede. 

  

I also forced myself to do most of the normal things like get up, take a shower, brush my teeth, put on makeup and clothes - that sort of thing. I felt like if I didn't force myself to "practice being normal" then I might forget how to be normal! This really helped me in the long run but it was very hard. 

  

Here's what I learned: you never "get over it" but you do get used to it. There does come a time when you can smile again, laugh again, and then a day comes where you realize that you went a whole day without thinking about your lost baby. It happens but you have a piece of your heart that is always sad, always wistful. However, I think that if you let yourself really feel and come to understand your own grief, then somehow, down the road, when the agony comes back for whatever reason, you'll recognize why you feel the way you do. Then, the hole in your heart will not be a cave of despair but a safe harbor: a safe harbor where you can remember your little lost baby, your forever child. 

  

I also recommend the booklets "When Hello Means Goodbye" and "Still to be Born" 

  

Be good to yourself and be comforted by those who love you. 

 
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December 4, 2005, 1:47 am PST

Safe Harbor

Dear Mel: 

  

I hope you are doing better today. Take one day at a time. One thing that you said concerned me. You said "I realize now how much worse it could have been by reading some of the posts." There is truth to what you are saying. After all, things could always be worse! But, loss equals loss. How do we measure emotional pain of loss? I think only the facts change. The depth of grief that comes from loss just is. I think comparisons can be helpful when we need to give ourselves a shove but, if someone else tells us how much worse it could be, boy, can that be annoying! Like you, my heart also went out to others who experienced the loss of their child. What really amazed me was how many people there are walking around, looking perfectly normal, and yet they have their own private grief. 

  

And by the way, although I learned so much from the loss of my daughter, and it's probably made me a better person, don't think for one minute that I wouldn't give up all that knowledge if I could just have my baby back. That is the cold, hard reality but it just is, so you just have to keep on going. 

  

I also had a four year old and a two year old when my baby died. I found it important to answer their questions honestly, to explain my sadness, and to let them grieve in their own way. Since my baby died in October, Thanksgiving was more important than ever. You can well imagine how hard it was! No salt needed for the food, my tears did it all. But, we sat around the table, joined hands, and thanked the Almighty for our blessings and prayed for understanding. 

  

Do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. My colleagues planted a tree for our baby that blooms every year. My husband and I went to our favorite lake, just the two of us, and cast flowers upon the water. I kept a journal for two months or so. I forced myself to take walks, to see people, to take my four year old to preschool, and I let people engage me in conversation even though it seems like it would have been easier to not talk. And, when I started to cry (sometimes so unexpectedly like right in the middle of the grocery store), I let people put their arms around me and comfort me. It is amazing how comforting people can be if you let them come close. 

  

It is tough for husbands. They want to make everything better, to fix their wife's sadness. I think it frustrates them to not be able to "fix it" plus they are dealing with their own sorrow and they're "supposed to be" strong. Sometimes I think it's really worse for men. At least we can just spill our guts and no one thinks we're some kind of a failure because of it!  Just be patient and forgiving with each other.  

  

Be patient with yourself. Take care! You can and will be happy again. Know that you have a huge network of supporters who've never met you, probably never will, but will always have you and every other grieving parent in their prayers, everyday. 

  

Chikara1 

 
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December 4, 2005, 2:00 am PST

Safe Harbor

Quote From: poot567

Hi friends, 

     I am new to the message board so bare with me.  I lost a baby at 14 weeks 2 years ago. It was my second pregnancy although, my husband and I were alittle hesitate because I had post-partum pretty bad the first time and never really knew it until my daughter was about 3 years old.  I was on medication for about 8 month but went off of it so I could get pregnant . Within 4 months, we were pregnant and things started to go down hill from there. Phsycially, my body went into a tail spin and my whole nervous system went out of whack. By the eleventh week, I had to be admitted into the hospital in the (Psychiatric) unit.  My body was doing things that were completely out of my control. I hadn't slept for 8 weeks and my body could not quick shaking. I had to be in constant movement and then the uncontrollable vomitting started. If I had to give what I was going through a name, I probably would have said, I had a nervous breakdown.  I was in the hospital for 3 weeks and taking medications.  I wasn't getting any better and my husband and I had to make the decision to terminate the pregnancy. I was sooo sick and at the time it seemed like the only thing to do.  To this day, there isn't a moment that goes by that I don't think about "what could have been" and wonder if it was a boy or a girl.  In some ways, I wish I would have had a miscarriage so I wouldn't have had to make a decision like that.  It was such a frightening experience and we realized that I had to get well for my daughter who was at home waiting for me.  I have been on medication for 2 years and doing fine but there is apart of me that died along with my baby.    

My younger sister had to terminate a pregnancy because she was given a chemotherapeutic agent in the first trimester. It was a horrendous decision for her. Then, in a subsequent pregnancy, she had to terminate because of devastating fetal abnormalities. Once again, she wanted that baby so much. It was just awful and I can still hear the wounded animal sounds of her crying.  

  

You must not keep second-guessing yourself. First of all, it does you no good and you can't change anything. Secondly, you did what you had to do and you must accept that. Focus instead on the love that you have for your baby and hold that love in your heart forever. Let that love heal you so you can stop beating yourself up. I understand that there was a part of you that died along with that baby. Let that part of yourself rest in peace now. Let that part be in your heart, forever holding hands with your baby. And then let the rest of yourself live and love. 

  

I hope you are strengthened knowing that other people are praying for your peace. 

 
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December 4, 2005, 2:07 am PST

Pregnancy Loss

Quote From: melgal

HI, 

  

I too had postpartum depression with my son. I had a rollercoaster ride with medication and ended up going off it (with docs advice) after 2 years (Prozac and Paxil). I felt like it was making me worse. I was very nervous to get pregnant again and waited 4 years. I just recently was pregnant again and lost the pregnancy at 11 weeks, 3 weeks ago. I am very nervous to try again. The pregnancy was very strange....very different from my first . I would have these moments of EXTREME rage for no reason. Very strange. 

  

My heart goes out to you....Please don't feel bad about your decision...If your pregnancy had have continued you may have had a miscarriage anyway or their could have been something very wrong.  You could not have done anything different ....their was something not quite right. I will not tell you " it was Gods way". I did not find this comforting at all. To be honest I don't know what to say. I will tell you that I would have done the same thing in your situation....I can't imagine how painful that was for you...... 

  

I want you wish you the best and I hope that over time it does get easier. I can't tell you if it does because I don't know that yet.  

  

Thinking of you, 

  

Mel 

Hi again Mel. 

  

I also had people telling me that this was "God's way" and I definitely did not find that comforting at all. I don't think that God goes around taking back little babies! 

  

But people can say weird things and I often thought of compiling all the crazy things that people said in their attempts to make me feel better. One lady told me "oh well, some flowers are never meant to bloom" like we were talking about a geranium! That one floored me so much that I said nothing at all. I walked away laughing because it was completely absurd. I think we just have to let it go when people say "less than helpful" things. I think they really don't know what to say, want to help, and we just have to forgive them. Lord knows, I sure don't want them to feel my pain so they'll know how it feels when people say dumb stuff. Just let it go, like water off your back 

 
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December 4, 2005, 12:50 pm PST

All I Really Want...

Quote From: melgal

HI, 

  

I am having an off day today so I thought I would check in here. I have days where I think about it constantly and then other days wouldn't be so bad. I thought this morning about the fact that I would be 14 weeks now and that in another 4 weeks we were going to have an ultrasound to find out what we were having. When we had my son they had just changed the law in NS about telling the sex so this was really exciting. We had tried recommended "methods" for trying for a girl and were anxious to see if it worked. My husband's family tend to produce boys. Now I realize that it didn't matter what I had I just wanted a healthy baby.  I will hopefully have that chance again. I was told that the chances of what happened were not likely to happen again especially because I had a healthy pregnancy before. I hope that they are right!  Thanks again for all your support. 

  

Mel 

Hi Mel, 

  

Yes, there are days like that. Even now, sixteen years later, there are tough times. For me, the entire first year after my baby's death was so hard. All the first this day and the first that days. The booklet "Still To Be Born" helped me because it deals with pregnancy after having had a loss. Like you, I knew that I wanted another child. But I was scared even though I had the same kind of reassurances from my doctor. And I did go on to have two more children. Everything turned out fine but those pregnancies were certainly not the carefree, "earth mother" pregnancies like the two that preceeded the loss. 

  

When I became pregnant again, and people would ask me "what do you want?" I had to bite my tongue to not say, "I don't care as long as it's alive." My perspective sure did change after losing a baby! I never did say that (thank goodness) but I did find that everyone who talked to me about their own loss knew exactly what I meant.  

  

Each one of those "should have been" milestones will have their sadness. But, each one allows you to grieve and, when you grieve, you let go of some pain. You'll never let go of the love for your baby, but you can let go of the hurt and the pain. I think that's what grieving does. It gives us a way to resolve loss, each of us in our own way, so that we can go forward. 

  

One day when I was having a particularly tough time, wondering if I would ever be happy again, I asked my husband if he also felt like the pain was physical for him. He told me that it was but that it had to be different for me because I was the only one who really knew our baby's life.  

  

For whatever reason or reasons it all happened, and as awful as it all was (and is), I'm glad that I was her mommy for her moment. I know that she was loved, wanted, missed and that she lived, even though her time was too short. 

  

You take care, and do what you need to do to get through the particularly tough times. I also hope you have another pregnancy and that everything goes well.  

  

Chikara1 

 
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December 7, 2005, 7:39 pm PST

What's Normal...

Quote From: fairladyz

    It has been three weeks since my little one has been gone. I made the decision to call him or her Jamie Evan Orange. I still wake up some morning and have a good cry and I know thats normal But what I'm not to sure is normal is that I'm mad at my boyfriend because our baby didn't survive. He did nothing to cause the loss but I can't get over my feeling of blame. When I talk about the baby I'm in tears and he doesn't cry about the baby, that I know of. And no matter how many times he tells me he cares and doesn't like to show his emotions, I can't get over the rage and blame I feel inside. I try to hide the fact that I feel this way but some times it rears its ugly head. I try to find things to say that I know will hurt him, I want him to feel all the pain that I feel. Is this normal?

I am so sorry that your baby didn't survive. I also had some "deflected anger" towards my husband but luckily my doctor educated me about the stages of grieving. He talked to me about this before I even left the hospital. Since I was oscillating between numb and devastated, he followed up by having a wonderful female nurse come to talk to me. She had also suffered both stillbirth and a miscarriage so she really knew what she was talking about. 

  

One of the stages involves anger. Sometimes anger and its companion, blame, are directed towards another even though that person didn't do anything "wrong." It might be a good idea for you to talk to a grief counselor who can help you to understand all these emotions that are going on. And, by the way, it's normal to have all sorts of different emotions now. You are going through a devastating loss. You might also want to do a search on the internet and look up the "stages of grief." Here's a few links: 

  

http://www.pregnancyloss.info/how_to_cope.htm 

http://www.silentgrief.com/ 

http://www.babylosskit.com/resources.html 

  

I wish you well and my thoughts and prayers are with you. 

  

 
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December 8, 2005, 2:02 am PST

Party's over

Quote From: wendidu

What do you do with your teenager once they've graduated high school and all they want to do is party and sleep all day? I've tried just about everything including taking off of work to drive him around job hunting.  

If your teen graduated in June and here it is December and your teen is still partying it up, then there's a two word answer: "Move out!"  

  

Kids who really want to work, work. My son had his own business going at 14, worked throughout high school, and my daughter did the same. The two younger ones can't wait until they are old enough to have a "real" job and have to be content with odd jobs and babysitting for now. The reality is that if my kids wanted spending money, they had to earn it. I'll supplement, but cash for pizza, movies, concerts, CDs, gas, car insurance should be something that kids pay for, or at least contribute a certain portion.  

  

I haven't had your problem because it's just inconceivable to me. But if I did, I'd do the tough love thing and cut my kid off. No cash outlays, no special foods that you know he/she loves to eat, no car, no gas, no pay-per-view, nada. 

  

I love my kids dearly and hate to be hardcore, but my job is to prepare them for the adult world. And that's a world where most people have to earn a living.  

  

But here's the nice side byproducts of "reality childrearing:" My kids routinely stop to pick up groceries. They call me to ask if I need anything when they are at the store. The two older ones delight in picking up the check at a restaurant. They'll call to ask if I want anything when they're in line at a drive through. Also, they pay for their own cell phone, school books and supplies. We pay for their tuition and fees. They don't have to pay rent at home or pay for food but they have to behave like the adults that they are. They help with laundry (my son does most of it for all of us), cooking, cleanup, driving the younger ones, and still have time for their own friends and for each other.  

  

Every retail outlet and restaurant is hiring holiday help now. Many holiday jobs can become permanent with good performance. 

  

Unless your teen has a bona fide physical or mental health issue (and you should always consider this) I'd say, "No way buddy, not in this house." It's really not fair for your teen to place this kind of stress on you.  

 
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December 10, 2005, 1:10 am PST

Seeing Pregnant People

Quote From: fairladyz

 Thank you for your support and comfort I really needed those websites that you gave me. I'm no longer mad at my boyfriend anymore, the silent grief  website helped him understand how I was feeling.  I was having a really hard time yesterday, my boyfriend took his friend  Jesus and Jesus' girlfriend, Tara,  to the OBGYN for her 3 month check up. While they were seeing the dr my boyfriend  came  and picked me up. I thought I could handle seeing  Tara without feeling sad but I was wrong. On the way from the hospital  I turned around to say something to Jesus and I saw him rubbing on Tara's belly and I just wanted to lose it!! I want to scream, curse and cry. I'm not very good at hiding my feelings so I can't imagine to look on my face. It was like they were teasing me, flaunting something that I lost. I wanted to tell my boyfriend to stop the car and I wanted to walk in the snow until I could calm down. But I sat in the passanger seat in silent unbearable pain. I held my feelings together until 4:00am I woke up and broke down I cried for 3 hours until cried myself to sleep. All day I haven't been myself but I can't even hide my  unconfort and unhappiness. How do you deal with seeing other pregnant people and babies?

I'm glad those websites helped. There's tons of support and information out there. One thing I was a little concerned about in reading your posts is whether you saw a doctor after your miscarriage. In your post on November 21st, you said that you "took a pregnancy test and it was negative. Antonio said that he knew it had to be wrong and we would take another a couple weeks down the road. Before I could take the second test I lost the baby. It took me a day or two to realize what had happened, I was at Antonio house and we looked the symptoms of a miscarriage and sure enough that was what had happened."  Without having medical confirmation, it can be difficult to tell whether there was really a pregnancy and miscarriage or just a late period. So, if you haven't seen your doctor yet, I strongly urge you to do so. 

  

I know many women have a really tough time seeing pregnant women and babies after their own loss. That was not my experience. I felt very sad for me and my baby but I found myself very happy for those women and babies. I wasn't jealous at all, just thankful that those little ones had safely made their journey into the world. I prayed for every pregnant woman I saw that she would never experience what I did. I never felt like "why me?" or "why my baby?" It just happened and it shouldn't have happened.  

  

I did know that I needed to heal my body and my broken heart. So I tried to do things that would bring me calm. I deliberately tried to find something to be happy about each and every day. I remember wondering if I would ever be able to smile again without also being sad. I remember the first day when I actually laughed. The day finally came when I realized that I hadn't thought about my lost baby all day long. I felt guilty, sad, and yet happy then because I knew that was a sign of healing. 

  

Like I've said in my previous posts, I was very concerned that I would forget how to be normal if I didn't practice doing normal things. So part of that practice was to force myself to find something to be happy for, or grateful for everyday. 

  

I got books on pregnancy loss and grieving. Back then the internet wasn't at all what it is today, so books were my main resource. It helped a lot to read, understand, and of course I'd then cry buckets for my loss and other people's losses. This probably helped in a cathartic way to relieve some of my own pain and it kept me from solely focussing on myself. That was another thing - I was afraid that if I only focussed on my own loss and my own pain, then I'd be locked into myself and ruin any chances of ever creating anything good out of this nightmare.  

  

Remember, too when you look at other pregnant women that you have no way of knowing their history unless they share it with you. You could see a couple walking down the street, she's pregnant, they're holding hands and obviously very happy. You have no way of knowing if this couple has tried for years to get pregnant, had multiple losses, or even if the very pregnancy that you are seeing is going to survive.  

  

Your loss was not fair. Neither was mine or anyone else's. Most of us have "what if" thoughts. The bottom line is that it did happen, it wasn't fair, and we have to heal. I knew I wanted another baby and I knew I had to heal so I could have a healthy body, and as peaceful a mindset as possible, for my next child to develop and grow in. 

  

You've got some healing to do but, if you haven't seen your doctor yet, I strongly urge you to do that as a first step. Let me know how you're doing - I'm thinking of you. 

 
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December 10, 2005, 1:34 am PST

Labor & Dr. Phil

I loved the story about the woman who missed her epidural because she had to finish watching Dr. Phil! Yeah, my labors were long & awful and I did the earth mother, no-drugs thing except for the first who was born by C-section after 36 hours of unproductive back labor. My shortest labor was 12 hours and the fourth child took 17 and it was not fun (I should have used drugs - what was I thinking???). 

  

I'm glad this show did some "softball" topics. The show has been handling some very serious, important issues. It is good to have some lighter moments and that's what this segment what all about. She wrote a great message into Dr. Phil, it caught someone's attention, and there she is on the show. So what? It's just a fun story. 

  

The weight-competition stepmom needs to be the parent, the adult guide. I agree with Robin's perspective on emphasizing health. That's what I do with my 3 girls and, so far, so good. The kids have enough external pressures on them about about their looks.  

 
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December 10, 2005, 7:21 am PST

Web Resources

I was looking for websites where the booklets "When Hello Means Goodbye" and "Still To Be Born" could be ordered. And I found the website by the author: 

  

http://www.griefwatch.com/ 

  

Hope this helps. 

 

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