Messages By: grayhaven
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January 5, 2006, 4:07 pm PST
 Quote From: morighan As a practicing pagan....i can wholeheartly say yes we exist. I am not a Wiccan, there is a differnce which I choose not to get into at this time. However I can say for one person to say we do not exist is completely wrong........whomever that person is. I do not critize any other religion....nor do I need saved. I respect which ever path it is that you choose to follow, all I as of others is to respect the fact that I chose a path that fits me the best. Spiritualism, Paganism, Wicca, and those types of religions are the fastest growing religions in the entire world. Please.....before you start dismissing an entire section of the worlds population out of hand just because you WISH we didn't exist, do some research and homework first. As you know, you have to give an email address to registar here.......I there by challenge any of Dr Phil's staff or Dr Phil himself to explain to my why I don't exist.
Morighan As a fellow Pagan that is open about his beliefs I comend your challenge to the staff. I understand that the Pagan population is growing but we still are not even 1/2 of a percent of the total population of the United States. In our area we hold Pagan Pride Day each fall to help educate the christian population in our area that we are here and that many of the ideas they have about us are misconceptions. The only way we can stop religious predjudices is to educate others, NOT convert them, we don't attempt that. But we do let them know about our basic beliefs. The last event had about 50 Pagans attend. We paraded thru one of Eastern Washingtons major metro area's downtown. It has realy raised the awareness of us in the comunity, we have even said blessings at city counsel meetings. Our beliefs are recognized by the Federal Government as a religion, but it is sad that our christian brothers and sisters will not recognize us as a Religion as well. We are all on this planet together, we should at least attempt to get along. Blessed Be |
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January 5, 2006, 10:17 pm PST
Quote From: xavierann I want you in Paganism to know that I know some of you and you are by far some of the nicest folks a gal could ask for in a friend! I want the "frightened" Christian community to know that I have bravely explored friendships with Pagans, and low and behold, they are (surprise, surprise) just people!!!!! People like me and you who have kids, messy homes, laundry day, burnt casseroles, and spiritual wishes that they hope someone "up there" hears. I think that Christians whom I have gone to church with in the past are down right "silly" for being afraid of all this demon posession stuff and afraid of non-Christian people. You arent afraid of Buddhists or Hindus, who are not Christians, so why be afraid of Euro-Pagans either. One of the sweetest ladies I know in town told me she is a Wiccan - and she is so gentle spirited that I really thought she had the same heart a true and genuine Christian should display. I have found out through my book reading that in Paganism every flower, tree, plant, herb and gemstone has a special meaning....the world actually means something. Then I checked out the Bible and found out that the natural world also has symbolic meaning in the Biblical sense. While alot of Pagans believe in The Goddess, Christians might be surprised to realize that Christ has a Bride, the Church; And The Church, as the Bride of Christ, functions as "The Goddess" for Christians in a round about way - the earthbound body that brings new life to others (through Christ, in the Christian sense, of course, in Christianity). The more I think about it, the more I realize that we have alot in common. People have to learn to look past clothing and jewelry pendants. Alot of Christians are afraid of the Pentagram, the 5 point star, but I looked up the number 5 in a Bible reference, and have found some references to 5 being the number used to symbolize Grace in the Bible. Think about the way number 5 is used in Biblical scripture - 5 wounds upon the crucificed Christ; 5 unprepared virgins, and 5 prepared virgins; 5 loaves and 5 fishes; 5 (x 10) days after the Resurrection Pentacost occurred and God sent the Holy Spirit to the Church of believers....I also have read that in early Christianity the Pentagram was actually used to symbolize Christ on the cross. Christ said "Love your neighbor as yourself," and so, if you are my neighbor, my Pagan neighbor, I will love you as Christ asks me to, and treat you with the respect and dignity I wish to be treated with. You may not know or understand, or even be interested in my faith, but I know that if My God loves you, than so should I, because I am no better than the God I worship. I actually enjoy reading the Pagan information, because you are adding a new and interesting dimensions to European history. For centuries no one cared to ask what religion pre-Christian Europe was, and now, people are interested and archeologists are digging up Stonehenge, and Druids, and Germanic Teutons....wow, the world is so exciting now. Such wonderful stories of old, such adventure! And the clothes, ya gotta love the midieval clothes! I have some. And you know what? I feel the same wearing it as I do wearing my regular clothing - I'm me, no matter what I am wearing. I will recognize you as a religion, and you know whose religion you are? Mine - you are the religion of my own ancestors in a restored, modern sort of way. There may be alot of information missing, but long ago, your religion was part of my family. So you are sort of like my living ancestors, and I think you are fun! I hope that you do not come to despise Christianity because of some nasty Christians, please remember Jesus Christ is the supreme example of Christianity - the one to look at, and guess what???? Christ himself was accused by the pharasees of being a Witch....and does anyone remember who visited Christ at Bethlehem? My goodness, it was the THREE MAGI (in Greek the word "magi" means SORCERER) - These three Sorcerers (male witches) used astrology and dream interpretation to locate the Christ child. So while the rest of the world just sat there, the Three PAGAN MAGI Sorcerers searched astrology for Christ, found him, and then worshiped him. How is that for an accurate twist on the Biblical story? Further, the two Biblical books that mention who visited Christ list Shepherds in one Book and the Magi in the other. Looking both Shepherds and Magi up in the Greek reveals a starteling definition of both words: both words ALSO means "pastor" or "priest". Apparently Both Gospels are speaking of the same people who came to visit Christ - Pagan Sorcerers who were shepherds/priests/pastors to their people. This is why they were sitting out under the stars watching their flocks at night when the angel came to them - they were watching the stars. Recent Astronomical studies have found that the Magi stopped in Bethlehem the day a great Solar event took place in the sky - it was the DAY THE SUN STOOD STILL, also indicated in the scripture story. That day is none other than WINTER SOLSTICE, for the word solstice, means, in latin, "sun" and "stood still". This was the sign they needed to tell them where to stop to locate the Christ Child - their astrology was a gigantic clock to them. Aparently these people were very learned, and wise (the translation of wicca in Old English). I wish people would get out their Hebrew, Greek and Old English Dictionaries (which can be found on line) - what I have found is that Language is the biggest barries and once we look up the words there is no more confusion or division. We are all seeking the same things. Well, I may be the minority, but I choose to be nice to any pagan neighbors that I meet. Merry Meet and Merry Part to you all! I wanted to thank you for your understanding and let you know that most of us Pagans hold Jesus, Budah, Mohamad and various other religious and spiritual leaders in the highest of regard. Many of us belive that to say that there is only one path that any individual must travel down is obsurd and that people should choose the path that suits them best. Although raised in a Pagan household part of my own spiritual journey has lead me to ponder the teachings of Christ, Budah and Judism and learn to understand them and their teachings. They all reinforce each other in their basic concepts, and you can find many corelations between the four. I personaly have had many bad experiances with Christians but they are far out weighed by the good experiances that I continue to have with most. I have not let "a few bad apples spoil the barrel". If more people would take the time to understand different cultures, like yourself, perhaps everyone would finaly get along. Thanks Again, Salix Grayhaven |
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January 6, 2006, 8:46 am PST
Quote From: nbrooks Not sure that I understand that (Christian tarot Reader). As far as the magi and shepherd interpretation I have to say that it is very interesting, and I will study that out, thankyou for that. There is one issue that I may disagree with. I am all for 'Love thy neighbors.." but, and I may be mis-interpreting, it seems that you are saying pagans are ok, christians are ok, whoever is ok with their beliefs. This is what we call 'Eastern thinking' where no one is wrong and everyone is right. The opposite end of course is what we call "Western thinking' where there is either right or wrong. If there are two different religious beliefs only one can be right. The Bible quotes Jesus as saying "I am the way the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the father but by me." To classify this, Jesus obviously believes in Western Thinking. So there are 2 possibilities: 1) Jesus is right. He is the way and there is no other way (that would make all other religions and spiritual beliefs, including pagans and wiccans, wrong. 2) Jesus is wrong. He is not the way and there is some other way. You see if you say that everyone is right then that makes Jesus right. If he is right then everyone else is wrong so, inevitably, Eastern Thinking is impossible. You can think what you want of Jesus and the Bible but there are only three possibilities. 1) Lord: He is God. Obey the Bible 2) Liar: If this is true then he was obviously not God, and not a prophet or a good man and his teachings should be disregarded and not equalled to muhammed or whomever. 3) Lunatic: A crazy man, not a prophet. Only 3 choices, you pick! If I remember corectly the study of Theology is the study of Religion's, that's right, with an 's. I am glad to know that there is some school someware that is teaching one sided Religion out there then sending people out thinking that they are well versed Theologans. If you read Genisis 1:26,27,28 you will see that man was also created before the garden of eden in like image to God. Then the garden of eden was created and Adam and Eve conciquently. Who were those other people? Eden was also planted in the East. Since it all started in the "East" shouldn't you have some "Eastern Thinking"? Why would people want to follow a God who right off the get go broke one of his own 10 Commandments? In Genisis 2:17 God said "You must not eat the fruit to that tree; if you do, you will die the same day". Seems to me that Adam and Eve lived quite a long time after they ate that fruit, Thank your Heaven that your god was merciful or Christianity would have stopped there. As I said before I am well versed in many religions, not just my own. Please don't think I am attacking the Christian faith as I am not. In fact I think that it is a very kind and respecting group most often than not, and if it is the right path for someone Great! Just please don't take it so far as to alienate other culture's with "fundlamentalist" thinking. We all need each other to survive on this plannet, so let your beliefs be enough and other's beliefs be enough for them. |
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