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Messages By: terryc
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June 3, 2006, 6:53 pm PDT
 I no more chose to be gay than I chose to be right-handed... and I was aware of both of them about the same time - when I was 2 or 3, as best as I can recollect.
Why am I referred to as "They" as if I'm somehow different from anybody else? First, if I CHOOSE to live my life by the bible's OLD testament, AND if I'm a Christian (I am), then we can debate the meaning of one or possibly two bigoted (the writers of old scripture were filled with the same prejudices, ignorance's, etc., as somebody "inspired" to write about God may or may not be today!) letters that may not even mean a hill of BEANS to the next guy or gal... How arrogant of us to think that the rest of the world should live by the esoteric measure that WE deem appropriate! Who the heck are WE to decide how our neighbor should decide to live their life? THAT is not "Godly" as far as I know!
I just so happen to be a taxpaying, spiritual, God-loving, voting, home-owning citizen of a country that denies me the same civil rights that everybody else is allowed, even the people we imprison for committing felonies! My spouse of 19 years and I are not allowed to make decisions for each other in the hospital (nor visit one another in the ICU); we are not allowed the same tax exemptions as the rest of the country; we can be "bashed" based on nothing but our sexuality and that is not considered a "hate crime" in most states; our wills can easily, and often effectively, be contested by family members that have shunned us and not spoken to us for many, many years, and the law indicates that this is perfectly acceptable; and people think that because we want the few, basic civil rights, that we have some sort of "special agenda"??
My God, what are you people thinking!?? I want to live and work peacefully beside my neighbor with the same basic human rights granted to the worst of our society's dregs... But you think I want something "special". Give me a break. Don't "Bash" me, and I won't call you a hypocrite!
I want to love and be loved - where - tell me where - is the sin in that? There's not even room for a debate or a discussion as far as I'm concerned, it's as clear as it can possibly be.
The meek shall inherit the earth. And God will make clear the bigotry's, arrogance, self-righteousness and UN-Godly behavior of those that would deny us our basic dignities and call themselves "Christians" .
The worst kind of evil are those that would do cruel, unkindness' in the name of "God". We know throughout history that the worst atrocities have been committed by those that would call themselves "Christian Soldiers". I imagine they must make God REALLY pi$$ed off. Not me, and my loving, committed partner of 19 years who love our families and do our best to be good people and make the world a better place for having welcomed us into it. |
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June 3, 2006, 11:10 pm PDT
Quote From: jloengard True. God did say, love your neighbor. He also said the two most important commandments were to (1) Love the Lord your God will all our heart, soul, mind, and strength; and (2) Love your neighbor as yourself. These are the two most important commandments. One is a "vertical" love; and the other is "horizontal."
In replying to your response, I am not judging and neither is God. He is simply offering everlasting peace and living water to those whom would confess Him as King of their lives.
So yes. We have no right. However, we do have a desire to ask people to be honest with themselves when it comes to considering their eternal destiny.
I have done and been there. I've been the homosexual on Broadway. So, yes; let's analyze our lives and live eternally with the God who loves us so much, He died for our sins.
God loves us all, John Who are you kidding? Your message is FILLED with judgment and "Oh-so-Holy" attitude.
My "eternal destiny" is looking great, but thank you for your concern! Perhaps you should fill your spare time with concern over your OWN "eternal destiny", and not peeking over MY spiritual shoulder.
There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - even REMOTELY "sinful" about my LOVE. My love for my partner of eighteen years, and his love for me, is beautiful, glorious, GODLY, and perfect in every way. It is the most beautiful gift God has given me in these forty-two short years; I can only pray for a few more years to be enveloped by that glorious love, surpassed ONLY by the perfect love of my God.
I am a cancer survivor, and my partner was just diagnosed with cancer, a cancer far more serious and aggressive than mine was. I will of course remain as close to his side as he will allow me, offering as much strength and support as I can possibly muster, praying for his health and enough faith to get both of us through this difficult time - our God will grant us that strength, and I know that whatever happens, we'll be just fine.
I have many times prayed that God would give the cancer to me to carry, anything to take it away from Rich, and I have asked this with emphatic earnesty. I would happily walk through fire to save him one ounce of suffering, at the hands of this dreaded illness, or the hands of a cruel-hearted, mean-spirited bigot that presumes to know how the rest of the world should lead their collective spiritual lives. I continue to pray.
You see, this is what's important - our ability, through the many gifts of our God, to support each other, to get one another through the difficult times in our lives; encouragement, affection, quiet, gentle love - can you possibly think of ANYthing more glorious, more sacred, more blessed, than this gift from God? This love to be shared, this commitment to stand by one another through these difficult times, as well as the good?? What on earth else are we PLACED here for, if not to love one another like this? Most people spend their entire waking LIVES looking for such a beautiful, blessed love. I feel like the most fortunate man that ever lived because of this glorious gift!
HOW can you piously sit in judgment, declaring that - in your infinite wisdom - there is something degenerate or sinful in this bond of love created out of a mutual love and respect for each other with God as the center of our lives?? WHO can possibly be so self-aggrandizing, self-absorbed, self-obsessed and self-centered?!?
And in the NAME of "God" no less!! Haha! It just continues to AMAZE me!!! Their is no END to the depth of hypocrisy that abounds! So continue to pray for me. I'll continue to pray for YOU, too. |
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June 3, 2006, 11:22 pm PDT
Quote From: walden420 Though a few individuals may make a choice to engage in a homosexual act or acts, do to various peer or social pressures, I believe that the vast majority of people who do engage in such acts are born with such emotions. We see homophobic tendencies in nature, so it would not be surprising at all to see it in the human race. Living in
New York
all my life, I certainly have had my fair share of conversations with those who are homosexual. One thing they all had in common was that it was something "different" each and every one of them had felt from early childhood on through puberty and beyond. These people were often ashamed of their feelings, and had to deal with the difficulty of keeping them a secret or subjecting themselves to the intolerance and violence that often follows a person who has shared their homosexual affections with others. I believe tolerance needs to be taught and that differences need to be understood as natural. One more note, why is it that people, whom are labeled as "pedophiles", have to be treated with fanatical hatred? Everywhere states are shifting their focus from providing therapy on how to control and discipline a person’s such desires and urges, while incarcerated, to a policy of “lock them away, let them back out after a few years, and expect them to be miraculously cured by simply being jailed.” Why is it that sexual child abuse continues to rise despite having new sex offender laws, longer sentences, monitoring devices, etc.? Do people really believe these “pedophiles” have ”chosen” to be locked up and ostracized from society? Do people not understand that this is not a choice either? All comments welcomed and appreciated.
Please, please, PLEASE stop using the word "homosexual" and "pedophile" in the same SENTENCE!! They have absolutely NOTHING to DO with one another!!!
We know, have known for YEARS, that the percentage of homosexual pedophiles vs. heterosexual pedophiles follow the same lines as any other category... Approximately 10-15% of the population is homosexual - same applies in this situation. This means that 85-90% of all pedophiles are straight. As in, straight adult men (generally, though certainly not always) attracted to adolescent and younger females... No "gay" in that equation whatsoever.
Continuing to lump them together suggests that there is something "deviate" about homosexuality, or something "wrong" with it... Neither is the case. Homosexuality, though the MINORITY of cases, is present through every species in nature, from the way flowers pollinate to the way all-female crocodiles in some regions can propagate their own colonies without the presence of males for many years to the way that many all-male couples in the monkey kingdom often raise the offspring without the presence of females.
It's there, clearly, on every level, as "natural" as can be - you don't have to like it, it's science. Of course, many Christians don't care much for that pesky "science" thing anyway, but I digress. |
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June 4, 2006, 12:34 am PDT
Quote From: kdaniels1 Being gay is not gentic. No Dr. has proven that unless they themselves are perverted. Being gay is a choice. You have the choice to do what you will.
kdaniels1 Please don't be ignorant. We've known - scientifically, undeniably - for over twenty years that homosexuality is genetic. Any good biologist can stand in front of a diagram of the human brain with a pointer and show you the exact section of the exact lobe that determines sexual orientation. Further, we even know that it's determined in the first trimester of gestation - when that portion of the brain is developed.
Yes, Virginia, we can track it that specifically.
To continue to challenge whether it's genetic or not is to simply stand with your head buried deep in the sand.
Before you hear the truth, you can claim "Ignorance". Once you have been told the truth, you can no longer claim ignorance. Refusing to accept fact, after that, is called stupidity. And I KNOW you're not stupid.
It's so interesting, too... Another thing we know from study after study after study, is that the people who argue against the acceptability/normalcy of homosexuality the loudest and most vociferously, are the people who are the most conflicted about their OWN sexuality.
(Though often, of course, they're not even aware of their own internal conflict - it often goes on just under the surface, until they're at a place emotionally and psychologically where they're equipped to take an honest look at it. Sadly, for some, this never occurs, and they spend their entire lives fighting a terrible internal struggle that they cannot possibly win.)
We choose how we act and with whom we act out sexually... But we definitely don't choose who we're attracted to at the basest of levels - it occurs without our effort or consent. Any thinking person can understand this very basic concept. Only persons with this terrible unconscious internal struggle continue to need to find some sort of "religious rationale" to disuage and justify their own internal conflict. |
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June 4, 2006, 4:44 pm PDT
Quote From: renagade God Hates the sin of homosexualism, not the person. Once homosexuals are saved then it is their duty to read the Word of God and realize that they are in a continual sin and change. God doesn't hate ANY ONE or ANY THING. At least the "God" that I happen to believe in. Perhaps YOUR God is full of wrath and hate and vengeance. I was told that Jesus came to wipe away the "old law" (old testament) and replace it with a NEW law - Love God above all else, and love your neighbor as yourself. Love, Love, Love. No "hate" in there anywhere.
My God loves me, because s/he CREATED me - perfect, glorious and beautiful in every way. I don't believe in a God that places me in a place of "sin" or anything negative from my beginning. But you see, this is all a moot point.
We live in the greatest country on earth - a country whose forefathers foresaw this sort of conflict - and therefore built a country based on the separation of church and state... Which means that you can believe what EVER you want to about your God - you have no right to inflict those beliefs on ME. It's that simple. I can celebrate the God of DIRT if I want to, that's my right - but I have no right to inflict those beliefs on YOU.
So in this wonderful nation, you and I are to have EQUAL rights. Sadly, some "Christians" have made this a JOKE, continue to make this country LOOK like a JOKE, because they are self-righteous and arrogant and self-obsessed, and seem to believe that their "belief" system is the system that the nation should adopt as a whole - regardless of race, color, creed or sexual identity. NO. That is not the country MY forefathers sought to create!! |
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June 4, 2006, 5:07 pm PDT
Quote From: kitspics I disagree that all homosexuals choice of sexuality is genetic!
In fact it has not been proven so scientifically and therefore should not be hypothesized as so!
As well if you refer to the post mortum tests of deceased male homosexuals you would find that a part of the brain failed to develop properly! In other words it would be consistent with a brain abnormality!
Neither do these findings hold up as well, because they were done only on males and on males who had died from aids!
I find it sad that our medical and psychological communities have been so accepting of an unproven precept!
I believe people become homosexual for a myriad of reasons! And because of that we should not label it as they are just born that way! The fact of bi-sexuality blows that idea completely out of the water!
Not to mention it is my experience with at least a dozen women I've known, had ALL been sexually abused by a man at one point in their lives! That their identiies and precepts of men were tied to these experiences was without question!
I think it sad that the gay community became so militant they left no opening for themselves even to understand their sexuality better! As well by their militance have invited people into their cause that have severe mental problems that are not gay, not happy and that the lifestyle they have adopted has become a way of escapism and rejection.
Yes I do follow Christ!
Regarding the commandments!
For those who say they follow Christ they must remember the first commandment the Father who is one with Jesus made to mankind!
Go forth and multiply.
The homosexual lifestyle does not fulfill what mankind was created for. Therefore it in no way complies with what the creator intended for man!
In fact in animal species homosexuality is a form of natural selection!
If you follow Jesus then you know that he said that all the other commandments rested on the first commandment and after that he would add that you love one another!
I choose to do both.....therefore I do not condemn! But neither do I condone!
However no one can tell me they love the Lord with all their heart, mind and spirit and can still continue to live backwards to the direction the Farther has intended for them! They are lying to my but most of all to themselves! And I would challenge them to ask the holy spirit to enter them and tell them the truthe of these things!
Other than that may the Love of Christ cover them!
Peace and blessings Kit
What the heck is it that you don't - won't - GET??! It HAS been proved, time and again, that our sexual identity IS formed in the earliest stages of our brain developement. You may stomp your feet and cover your ears and shout "La-la-la-la-la!!" all you WANT to - it doesn't take away the fact! Hahaha - I don't get why you can't accept that and move forward, just one teeny, tiny little step! What is your major malfunction, soldier??
You speak about it yourself, when you acknowledge that "post mortem", autopsies show that a part of the brain has "failed to develop" in homosexual persons - your own words!! So using your VERY OWN WORDS, you acknowledge that our brains are physiologically different - albeit an "abnormalilty" or not - it's a physical difference... So acknowledging this, you STILL believe there is some sort of "choice" involved somehow? Good grief! If you won't even listen to your OWN reason, how can you possibly be expected to listen to the voice of reason when it comes from someone else? For some, there is just NO opening of the mind to development. Perhaps you
You also state that "...our medical and psychological communities have been so accepting of an unproven precept! " - you acknowledge that these communities ACCEPT this "precept" - yet you think they would accept this WITHOUT PROOF?? How naiive! Have you NO CONCEPT of what sort of hoops a "thesis" has to be put through in this country before such a "precept" could/would be accepted? Ha!!
"In fact in animal species homosexuality is a form of natural selection! " - Clearly, I needn't say a word... Just as above, you continue to make my point(s) for me... You accept all my arguments, you just don't like the conclusions. Well DON'T like them - it doesn't CHANGE them any! Haha! Just read your own words, you'll see that you acknowledge all the same points that I have made earlier. Thank you very much! |
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June 5, 2006, 11:06 pm PDT
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Tell me, please, since WHEN was that God's "First Commandment"??? Not to mention, that if you believe the ONLY reason for sexual intimacy is to "multiply", I feel badly for your sex life! This gift God has given us, this whole COLLECTION of gifts, that make up our ability to be intimate - a thousand, million gifts involved - are so beautiful, so blessed! How very sad that people suggest there is something "shameful" about intimacy, when it is between two consenting, loving adults who care only to express love and compassion and passion for one another.
Our sexuality is one of God's greatest, most beautiful gifts - why must you see it as something about which we should be punished, or shamed, or guilted... Talk about something that God surely must NOT have INTENDED!! WE have done that - mankind - shame is all OURS, it is NOT of God. We created it, and throughout the years we have continued to flagelate ourselves with it.
Also, do you have no concept of how painfully OVERPOPULATED our world already is?? Can you POSSIBLY imagine how much MORESO this would be the case, if every time two people "coupled", a child was the result? Are YOU going to take care of all these unwanted, unplanned, "unholy" children?
Your world is so black and white - are there no "grays" in your world? That leaves 98% of the spectrum that you're unable to see or take part in... That just makes me so sad!
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Exactly!!! So WHY do you continue to DO that with all of your "judgments"??? Amazing! See that PLANK!?? You know, the one in your EYE?!?? |
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June 6, 2006, 3:42 am PDT
Quote From: kdaniels1 I agree with you on that the bible clearly states that homosexuality is sin but Christ does condem them as well. Granted he loves all but he will judge all as well. We as true Christian need to reach out to all mankind as Christ did. Gen Chp. 1 clearly condems along with other verses in the bible about being gay. People who say they are Christian and still gay aren't and that is a fair statement because of the bible. How can you be Christian and still gay. It like comparing an apple and and orange. I am against gays action not them, just like Christ.
kdaniels1 Surely, SURELY you can't be serious. Did you pause to read your own words before you sent them? Where - please, show me - where Jesus said ANYTHING about homosexuality - sexuality at ALL! It does not serve your cause to just blatantly make things up out of thin air, especially such ridiculous things that everybody knows is nonsense - whatEVER "stance" they make take.
If it is Christ's job to "judge", as you state - then why do you feel that YOU can take on that role? Did he tell you, in your dreams, that he was handing that role over to you? Perhaps he is too busy, so you need to give him a hand?
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When did it become YOUR JOB to make such rash, sweeping generalizations and judgments? How is it that you have become so "enlightened" about how others should live their lives, and whether or not they have a personal relationship with Christ or not?
Beyond that, what about people that don't CARE one BIT about a personal relationship with Christ?? Do you think that Christianity is the only religion practiced in this great country? Can you really believe that ONLY "Christians" (as YOU would define them) are the only persons that God shall welcome into his eternal kingdom? Can you not see how grotesquely ARROGANT that is?
What about those who don't believe in the "perfection" and "infallibility" of (your version of) the bible? Are all those persons - Christian or not - damned to hell as well? Man, you "perfect old testament-RE-defining (as it suits you and only then) heterosexual (white I assume) judgmental Christians" are going to be a LONELY lot in that great heaven of yours (and ONLY yours)!!
In the end, on that Judgment Day, I believe we shall all be able to see the damage we have done - the harm we have caused to one another throughout our lives... That we shall be able to fully understand what our selfishness, our arrogance, our self-righteousness, our mean-spiritedness, has caused... The pain on the faces of those we have passed judgment upon, the sadness in the eyes of those we have made to feel inferior and ashamed. THEN we'll see who is "judged", and who has caused the harm to humanity. |
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