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Messages By: isabeaur


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January 20, 2006, 12:55 pm CST

You can't save him

So let's summarize this 17-year old's "relationship": 

  

1.  He's 30 years old and is molesting a child (oh, yes you are a child still, Alysia, legally and quite obviously emotionally as well). 

2.  He's in jail - a convicted felon. 

3.  He's an abuser, of both women and drugs. 

4.  He's already gotten one woman pregnant and doesn't support that child - even if it was a one night stand (which we have a only convicted felon's word for) he takes no responsibility for his actions and the consequences of those actions.  

5.  He has unprotected sex with Alysia, exposing her to disease and teenage pregnancy, and cheats on her. 

6.  He has coerced Alysia into staying with him by threatening suicide - a classic tactic of a controlling abuser.  Clue:  He hasn't changed. 

7.  She thinks that as a "nurturing" person, she can do some good in his life.   

8.  He tells her what she wants to hear so she will continue to allow him to use her. 

  

Dr. Phil, thank you for trying to talk some sense into this girl, but I would have like to emphasize the following to truths Alysia: 

  

1.  You can't save him. 

2.  You can't change him. 

3.  He won't change himself because you are wonderful and loving and giving.  And it's pretty arrogant to assume that you are so fabulous that he will be cured by your love and "nuturing".  No one, not even you, is that good.  He WILL take advantage of your wonderfulness, and already has. 

4.  Your brain is still growing and you probably won't even realize you are mortal until you are 25.  You don't have the ability to discern between infatuation and mature love, any more than a 4 year old has the ability to tell the difference between movies and reality.   

5.  You are NOT mature.  Mature people deal with reality, not fantasy, know their limitations, and carefully listen to people with more knowledge and experience.  You are not doing any of this. 

6.  Turning 18 is meaningless in terms of maturing, so don't think that you will be magically all grown up in a few months. 

7.  Your mother loves you and doesn't want you to end up beaten, pregnant, diseased and dumped.  Hint:  she would be one of those people with more knowlege and experience than you.  Dr. Phil would be another one.  Listen to them. 

8.  It CAN happen to you, you ARE fooling yourself, and your judgement in this case is flawed.  Drop the loser who is mooching money off of you, endangering your life and health, cheating on you, and using emotional blackmail (suicide threats) to keep you near him so he can use and abuse you more.  If you are as mature as you think you are, this would be a no-brainer.   

  

and finally, 

  

9.  You are worth so much more than this.  Don't be so desperate for a boyfriend that you are willing to settle for such a low-life.  Find someone your own age, in the same stage of life as you, who isn't willing to you at risk.  Bad boys are bad news - it's time to raise your standards and upgrade to a better class of men. 

  

  

 

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February 2, 2006, 10:42 am CST

Ease Up

This show is not about poly-amorous relationships.  It's about an arrogant, selfish man having a mid-life crisis and not really caring if he hurts his wife and family while he tries to reassure himself that he's still the "alpha".  It's time to grow the hell up and either honor the vows you made, or leave the relationship to pursue your lost youth (futile though this would be). 

  

And will all of the monogamous people stop frothing about polyamorous people - your approval is not required and not every polyamorous relationship is based on adolescent fantasy and immaturity. 

  

And will all of the polyamorous people stop implying that monogamous people are sexually repressed and insecure and that polyamorous people are somehow more enlighted than those of us in more traditional relationships.  The decision to commit to one person is not necessarily based on insecurity and the need to control others.   

 

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February 2, 2006, 11:06 am CST

Twisted Logic

Quote From: mela921

This was meant to be a fling, I knew he was married, his was was ok with a fling, i talked to her on the phone............the porblem, he has fallen in love with me and i with him.  he moved out of his home and close to me in his own apt.  This was done on the pretext that he was moving anyways to get out of his living arrangements ( with the inlaws) and this way he could be near me.........the wife was ok with this at first and is not any  longer........he and i have had many discusssions about him having his cake and eat it too......he will not divorce his wife.............he has even told ger that she is not sexually attractive to him and has not been for years.  We share more than just sex, we have so many interests in common it is unbeleivable..........how ever he is being selfish and I will be ending our relationshiip........if he changes his lif and becomes single then maybe we can pursue.......   but I fault the wife for putting up with it and not putting her foot down, she has no self worth and is afraid to stand up to him and tell him what she wants, fear of losing a man is not worth the fear of losing yourself.........

So it's the wife's fault that you had an affair with a married man?   So if she does kick him out and you pursue a relationship with him, will it still be her fault when he pulls the same stunt on you?   

  

  

 

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February 17, 2006, 11:29 am CST

Draw a line

Life is too short to put up with unrepentant people who bring chaos and pain into your life.   This is not to say that we should be rigid and unforgiving - we all do stupid hurtful things sometimes and we need to be understanding of each other.  But we all have to draw a line somewhere if only to preserve our own health, and if someone is continually hurting you, doesn't really care about the hurt they are causing, is unwilling to try to change and blames you for their bad behaviour, then drop them from your life.   Even if they are close family members.  You can't make them happy and you deserve better.  You will still feel pain at the parting of ways, and regret, but it's better than living a lifetime of misery and guilt.   

  

I gave up on my grandmother years ago.  She's a vicious drunk who delights in the pain and failures of others.  No effort is ever good enough to please her, and everything is everyone else's fault.  She thinks she's perfect.  The perfect grandma that wouldn't let her grandchildren call her grandma because it made her sound old, who indulged in drunken rages that put holes in the walls of our home, who called my mother up constantly to tell her what a bad mother she was (my mother is fabulous, actually), and who would only call me when someone in the family had made a mistake of some sort (she likes to gloat over people's mistakes).   She never hesitated to complain to either one of my parents about what rotten kids they'd raised, or to let the kids know what sorry disappointments we were.  It's hard to see your little brother, all of five years old, dissolve into tears because his grandma told him that the Christmas present he got her was lousy.  I finally decided that I wasn't going to waste the one life I get on this earth trying to please someone who wants to be miserable and take everyone else down with her.  I don't call her, write her, or see her unless I happen to be at my dad's house when she makes the rare supreme sacrifice of visiting her only son.  My dad isn't happy with me on this, but my efforts to try to forge a relationship with the woman were continually rebuffed.   

  

There are so many wonderful people in this world that I can spend my time with - I'd much rather try to make them happy then waste the effort on a harridan who doesn't want to be happy.  And my life is much better for having taken that step. 

 

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February 21, 2006, 1:12 pm CST

Grant is a failure

Grant, you just don't get it.  You keep expecting this interaction with Dr. Phil to fix your wife.  There is nothing wrong with Kelly.  She's a busy mom with three small children who desperately loves her husband.  She is doing a fine job.   You are the problem.  You want something you cannot have - perfection.  It does not exist.   Especially not in you.  You say you are trying to change the situation, but you are failing miserably because you keep assuming that Kelly is the one who ultimately has to change in order for the marriage to be a success.  You treat her like a child and criticize the decisions she makes about seemingly everything - how she chooses to decorate, how she chooses to spend her time. So what if it's not exactly as you would do it?  You aren't right about everything, and on some things It's just not that important.  Children don't go down the wrong path in life because the house is a little disorganized.  They go bad in life because they know they cannot live up to their parents' expectations.   After all there's no point in even trying if you know that no effort is ever good enough, no effort is ever appreciated.  That's the lesson you are teaching those children of yours every day. 

  

Kelly, please think long and hard about staying with this control freak.  He doesn't respect you or your abilities, clearly.  And yet you seem like a terrific mom to me, and a very devoted wife.  Too devoted to a man who I doubt will ever appreciate you or love you for who you are.    If the way you organize your closets means more to him than your feelings, it's time to think about how this will affect your children.  I come from a home in which mom oh-so-bravely put up with hyper-critical dad for years, staying with him for the sake of the kids and trying to hide the conflict and hurt and anger in their marriage.  But kids, even very young kids, know when things aren't right.  They might not be able to articulate the problem, but they know it's there.  They tend to blame themselves, and it causes unbelievable pain for the kids, which can in turn cause all of the social ills Grant says he wants to avoid.  My parents went back and forth, splitting up and getting back together, and having lived through all of that, I can say unequivocally that I was much happier living in a peaceful, small house with few materials goods than in a big fancy house full of tension and pain.  It was a relief when they finally divorced.   

  

I hope Grant gets a clue and starts giving you the respect you deserve.  But if he just can't make that leap in personal growth, please don't make the mistake of staying together for the kids.  What kids need isn't spotless counters, but parents who are happy in their marriage. 

 

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February 22, 2006, 8:59 am CST

Quote

Quote From: mnmom03

If all you look for is what you can get OUT of a relationship, who would want to be in a relationship with you.  Anyone who thinks being a stay at home mom is easy, has never done it.  This was sent to me by a friend and I think many moms will enjoy it: 

  

One afternoon a man came home from work to find total mayhem in his house.  His 3 children were outside, still in their pajamas, playing in the mud, with empty food boxes and wrappers strewn all around the front yard.  The door of his wife's car was open, as was the front door to the house.  Proceeding into the entry, he found an even bigger mess. 

 

A lamp had been knocked over, and the throw rug was wadded against one wall.  In the front room the TV was loudly blaring a cartoon channel, and the family room was strewn with toys and various items of clothing.  In the kitchen, dishes filled the sink, breakfast food and milk was spilled on the counter, dog food was spilled on the floor, a broken glass lay under the table, and a small pile of sand was spread by the back door.  The answering machine was beeping that it was full.  He quickly headed up the stairs, stepping over toys and more piles of clothes, looking for his wife. 

 

He was worried she may be ill, or that something serious had happened. 

 

He found her lounging in the bedroom, still curled in the bed in her pajamas, reading a novel.  She looked up at him, smiled, and asked how his day went.  he looked bewildered and asked, "What happened here today?" 

 

She, again, smiled and answered, "You know every day when you come home from work and ask me what in the world did I do today?" 

 

"Yes," was his incredulous reply. 

 

She answered, "Well, today I didn't do it." 

  

So -- If you think your husband or wife isn't doing a "good enough" job now, wait until he or she doesn't do it  -- even for only one day!!!!! 

  

Bravo on this one.   I've never seen that story before, but it really lays it out well.  One toddler buzzing around the house can keep a mom running just to clean up after him.   Three little ones is signficantly more than a full time job.
 

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February 24, 2006, 12:18 pm CST

Big Difference

Quote From: zitsahoy

Here is an example from my immediate family.    My aunt had a baby when she was young and he was put up for adoption.     She kept this a secret from us all until the baby grew up and came looking for his birth mother.    The whole family then realized that she had a secret she had covered up for a long time.    She had moved away to have the baby and came home after he was born.   Nobody had ever asked her "Did you have a baby before you married Uncle Ted?" by the way.    She just neglected to mention it.    I can understand that she did not tell us because she was ashamed, but when we all found out we were hurt and confused and now don't really trust her.     She says it was none of our business, but the truth has come out now and we don't believe anything she tells us.    Nobody is upset about a new cousin in fact we welcome him, but we care about the lie.   The truth is always the best way to go because it comes out in the end anyways as Power009 has stated.   Lies are a very bad idea if you do'nt want to hurt the people close to you. 

  

My friends' mom was caught embezzling from work.    The family are very upset, not so much about the stealing.    They understand the temptation of handling money and forgive her.    They are most upset about the fact that she covered it all up and they thought she was an honest woman.   They had to re-evaluate who their own mother was and everything they had ever believed about her, someone they thought they knew back to front and trusted.     It is still hard for them. 

Have you told your aunt everything you've done wrong in your life?  Have you circulated a list to your entire family about all the mistakes you've made?  I'm betting you have a few moments you're less than proud of that you don't advertise - we all do, and being truthful does not require broadcasting private mistakes.   

  

There is a huge difference between lying to your family, and not telling them about a painful event in your life that you might feel ashamed of.  Your aunt is right - the fact that she had a baby when she was young is NONE of your business.   She wasn't trying to hurt anyone in your family, she was trying to keep a private matter private, probably to protect herself from an extremely judgemental family.  If you can't see the difference between her actions and the hurtful lies that were discussed on the show then you have a hell of a lot of growing up to do.   

  

  

  

  

 

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February 27, 2006, 10:04 am CST

Tell him to take a hike

Quote From: luvmy5kids

I used to say that I would NEVER stay with a man that cheated on me.  I used to believe that.  I would meet people that would say they had survived affairs and i would be disgusted.  In my eyes they were so week...so pathetic.  Little did I know that when faced with the same situation I wouldn’t be able to make a decision like that?

  

 

 

  

 

My husband and I have been together for ten years.  We have five beautiful children together and our marriage appeared to be the poster marriage for everyone around. I am the PTA President and my children’s school and he the treasurer.  I call and he comes running and the other way around.  We doted on each other and centered our worlds on each other then all of a sudden 3 weeks ago out of the blue he came home and told me he didn’t love me anymore.  He didn’t know why or how but that he didn’t want to be with me.  My heart broke.  I felt like I was blindsided by an eighteen wheeler.  Two weeks after telling me this he left.  My five children and I sat and cried together as we watched him walk out.  I asked him to go to marriage counseling and he agreed.  On the way to marriage counseling I found out that he had been seeing someone else and even slept with her twice.  I talked to her on the phone and had it confirmed.  I was so broken yet STILL wanted to make it work.  I walked into counseling with him and while in the office he called HER to make sure she was ok while I sat beside him and cried in complete shock.

  

 

 

  

 

His reasoning was that she is soft and tender and everything he needed.  I am strong and rough around the edges. 

  

 

 

  

 

In marriage counseling the therapist told us there was no hope.  That there couldn’t be three people in a marriage and my husband refused to give her up.  We left that day with my heart completely broken.  Yet I still love him.  A few days later she broke it off with him and a day after that he came back here.  He openly tells me that he loves her.  He says that if she called today he would probably leave me.  I can’t let him go though.  I don’t know how.

  

 

 

  

 

Does this make me weak?  Am I a coward because I let him back?  Is it my strength that allows me to do this?  Am I doing it for me?  Am I doing it for the kids?  Can we get past this? 

  

 

 

  

 

I have so many questions but the only truth I know in all of this is that I love my husband deeply.  I love our children.  I will not let go of even one spark of hope.  I made a vow to love him forever through thick and thin and I intend on keeping my word.

  

 

 

  

 

Wow,  I sure do find myself eating all those words I once said about women that stayed with a cheating husband.  I guess I really don’t know myself at all.

  

 

 

  

 

Broken Hearted!

  

 

  

Broken Hearted you certainly must be.  You've give your husband 10 years, 5 children, and your faithfulness.  You deserve a faithful husband.  No one is perfect and we all do very stupid things sometimes, but if he is not willing to even try to correct his mistake then what have you got to lose by kicking him out?  Let's see how this stacks up:   

  

1.  You THOUGHT you were both devoted to each other, but then you found out he had been carrying on an affair.  Was this the first slut he'd been with, or just the first to demand that he dump his wife? 

  

2.  He walked out IN FRONT OF HIS CRYING CHILDREN - what a hero.    

  

3.  He calls his mistress from the office of the marriage therapist.  How thoughtful and considerate of HER feelings he is.   

  

4.  He only came back to you after the bimbo dumped him - apparently he needed a place to sleep? 

  

5.  He's told you straight out that he would leave if the bimbo wanted him back because he "loves" her.   

  

6.  Your therapist told you that there was no hope - what spark of hope do you see exactly? 

  

So if you let him stay, you will be sitting aroung, cringing, afraid of asking for what you want (deserve), afraid of making a mistake, afraid of making him mad . . .  waiting for the next little bimbo to come along and allow herself to be lured into his bed.    What kind of life would that be?  Is it one you want? 

  

Loving someone is not enough to sustain a marriage, and you have to love yourself and your children enough to demand that he either be as devoted to the relationship as you are or to get out and go after what he wants (if he can figure that out).   Please do not teach your children that is acceptable to be treated like a consolation prize (oh, well, I can't have what I want so I guess I'll settle for my devoted family until something better comes along).  All of you deserve better than that.   

  

So kick him out and tell him to decide what he wants - refuse to wait in limbo.  If he gets a clue, don't let him back into your home until you've been through further counselling.  If he doesn't get a clue, then move on and find someone who knows what he wants.   Life will absolutely suck for a while because it will be hard, emotionally, financially, every way.  But you CAN get through it, you ARE strong enough, your kids WILL be better off, and you DO deserve better.  None of us get a "do-over", so make this life count. 

 

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March 3, 2006, 12:48 pm CST

03/03 “Stop Ruining Your Child!”

Quote From: skyeyez9

I have an 12 yr old brother in law.  His mom pampers him and spoiled him to the point its disgusting to watch.  My MIL asked me to help clean his room (UHmmmm why can her healthy 12 yr old son do it? I asked)  I refused to clean it when he was in the next room.   

       

      He has never had to lift a finger.  Dalton asks his mom for a glass of juice, she will get it for him. I have never seen him get anything for himself. He doesn't even know where the bowls and cups are located in his own kitchen. My mil cuts all his meat for him (remember hes a perfectly healthy 12 yr old), when we go out to a buffet, MIL gets all his food for him, he justs stands next to her telling her what kind of food to put on his plate for him.   

  

    My husband was heating up some soup in the microwave for my 2 yr od daughter, Dalton asked if he could have some too. My husband said "you can have anything in this house, as long as you make it yourself."   Dalton walked back into the living room and watched tv.  He didnt eat all afternoon cause nobody would make him a sandwich or heat up some soup.  He would literally starve if nobody was there to hold his hand.  Couple of times, I have tried to help him learn to use the microwave, or heat something on the stove, he refuses to learn. Cause Mommy does it for him. 

  

When we visit, he smells awful, because his mom doesnt make him bathe or brush his teeth. He probably showers and brushes his teeth once a week.  My MIL says that just now normal boys are.  Funny, cause when I was 12 none of my friends or classmates only showered once a week. My MIL will often cook 2 different dinners. One for us and one for Dalton because he doesnt want chicken....he wants pancakes and steak.  And she cooks it!!!  I think she purposely does this because she wants him dependant on her.  It will be interesting to see how he will turn out when he is an adult. 

The way he is going he will never become an adult, just a 40 year old child living with his mother.  When I was his age I was cooking my own food and doing my own laundry, and so was my brother.  Normal boys do not act like your BIL - I wish you luck and hope you don't put your kids in too much contact with what will be a very negative influence.
 

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March 3, 2006, 1:27 pm CST

Questions to the group

Several people have stated quite firmly that no one should try to discipline another person's child, or pass judgement on their parenting techniques.  Wisdom isn't bestowed upon parents at the moment of birth in a beam of light - they start out in blissful ignorance and get on-going on-the-job training and hopefully read up on a few things.  But event the most conscientious and well-meaning parents are going  to make mistakes. 

  

1.  If no one can speak up about those mistakes, how are the parents to learn how to do things better or get any other perspectives or ideas?  Or even know what their kids are doing behind their backs? 

2.  Aren't family members are in a position to make comments or suggestions for the good of the children, especially if they see something drastically wrong?   

3.  Or are family members just supposed to shrug their shoulders and let the kid suffer the consequences later in life? 

  

I can't see scolding strangers in public places, but I think the "not my kids, not my business" attitude is irresponsible at best.   If you are expected to interact with the kids, you have some right to tell them to stop kicking the dog or jumping on your furniture or screaming at you.   And if you are related to the kids and love them and want the best for them, how can you keep silent? 

 

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