Messages By: chriskramar

I agree that if her husband can't understand the gravity of what he has done that they should get a divorce.

But he is DEAD WRONG on that it is any part her fault for being too tuned into her children and being a mom instead of being her husband's best friend.

This is partially a FREE PASS to all the guys who claim they do their online romancing because they are lonely.  They do it because they belive they can get away with it.

My ex-husband had online affairs, he was the one who moved away from the real world relationship where despite having children I was trying my best to be his companion and even slept with him 3 times a week.

Frankly to these men the time they spend online where they are "perfect" and someone wants to chat with them all day about what a sexy beast they are is worth withdrawing from a real world where your wife knows all your faults but loves you anyway. In the real world there are crisises that can't be wiped out with smiley faces and phone sex.

Dr. Phil never called him on his more than 100 messages a day to the other woman.  What in his "real" life was he neglecting to do all of those? Was he taking from his family to pay for his activities?

A real world wife cannot compete with an online mistress who tells him how perfect he is, sends him naughty pictures, and agrees what a bitch his partner must be for having real adult expectations of him. These affairs end when the real world creeps in, then they just put that partner on ignore and look for another.

His BS that his online affair made his marriage better is straight from a popular website which is not written by a marriage or family therapist, but a husband and wife who hold this opinion. Its real popular in the I have just been caught crowd and is the first link in many search engines when you type in that question.

I bet you anything that he was the one who withdrew first to something more exciting, but he just can't see it. It happens slowly sneaking out into the yard to send a few texts, and getting up late at night.  My ex husband even admits that by the end when he was caught by his employer that he was never emotionally present with his family because he had 3 women all fighting over him which was much more exciting.

Dr. Phil you are wrong. When your man is deadset on living the fantasy and withdraws into it there is nothing a good wife and mother can do.  I suggest you look into the fantasy life these men live.

My own ex-husband has lost not only a marriage of 10 years, but any contact with his 2 children, along with at least 3 jobs because his life is centered on a computer fantasy world.  He does not engage with the real world any longer.  He is not alone.  It is a crisis facing many families, and placing any piece of the blame on a woman for being dedicated to her children is not the answer.  As far as I know there is no cure, there is no doctor out there combating men leaving their families to join virtual opium dens. There are lots of ways to hide it, and lots of ways to get away with it until he is finally caught and the wife is left to live with the unbearable pressure of trying to save a marriage in a world where many therapists do not understand the emotional thrill the man got from it the whole time.

Seriously - you were either taking time from your work or your family to type these messages. There is in the very least EMOTIONAL energy expended to keep this sexual tension going and the secret excitement flowing.

I say that I slept with him 3 times a week as a way to convey that I thought we were really close.  We talked every day.  We went on family outings and even had date nights. He would call me many times a day to talk, all while he had a chat window open to one of his other women. We shared the same car to and from work.  I NEVER in a million years thought that the business trips I was dropping him off at the airport for were actually covers to go have sex with women he met online - but they were.

No woman is safe from this happening.  There are guides online about how to get away with it.

I was a good wife to him.  I stood by him for 10 years, including 2 hospitalizations for despression which turned out to be when he could not cope with his real and virtual world colliding.  I forgave him the first 2 times I found internet affairs because I believed it was best for my kids.

All that happens is that you learn how to become a better liar, and how to make her feel sorry for you that you are too sick to control yourself.

Real father are really there, for their families and do not need to escape into a fantasy to soothe poor self esteem.

Lines of communication are great, but when one side is giving bogus information to therapists who do not understand the web of internet sex scandals and the high you get from it, there can be no healing.  I went to one year of therapy to learn that my ex-husband never was going to understand the gravity of what he had done to my life. I knew that if I stayed with him I could never trust him on a computer again, and that was his career.  He worked for the Federal Government and lost his job because while under much more intensive treatment for what was diagnosed as depression, he STILL could not stop.

Seriously someone who knows how this cycle works should go a few rounds to the third degree to realize how much time and emotional effort was taken away from your real world to do this.

Thank god it has been 5 years now and my life is much better!

I am tired of the media making internet addiction a joke.

My first marriage was destroyed by internet addiction and its associated ease in pursuing pornography addiction and online sex chat.

My ex husband was hospitalized for depression in January 1997 when his internet life where he was telling people in online local chat that he was getting a divorce and had a much more lucrative career than he actually did collided with the fact that after 4 years of trying to get pregnant we finally were expecting.  He had not paid any of our bills for 3 months and had used the money to entertain new friends he had met online.

He was in the hospital for 1 week, then had inpatient day-care for 2 weeks while I had to figure out how to get our bills paid. There was tremendous pressure on me from that day forward to make sure that he never got too stressed and I lived in paralyzing fear that he would kill himself and I would have to explain that to our children.

I identified this as the problem when he was in the hospital but his doctor and social worker dismissed it. I was offered the opportunity to discuss if I wanted an abortion, but neither would listen to how obsessed he had become with going online from the time he got home from work, until 2 or 3 the next morning.  I later learned that he had started sneaking chat at work and had been on the verge of discovery up until he went in the hospital.

When he got home he was only able to stay off the computer for about 2 weeks then slowly came up with reasons why he needed to get back on.

Fast forward through 6 years of catching lying about long distance phone calls, mystery computer purchases, and sex chat logs I discovered.  He would in turn threaten to kill himself and get his medications changed.  He was on Trazadone, Zoloft, and Effexor but no one talked to him about obsessing over the computer.

I could not count on him to help me with anything around the house or to watch the kids.  I had to take part time jobs after the kids went to bed because he was entirely irrational with them expecting that they make no demands of him during his computer time. Most of the time when we visited family it was like the lights were on and nobody was at home.  I was so embarassed of him that he would make a beeline straight to the computer in any house we were visiting so he could check his email and get back onto chat. At family gatherings he was always at a computer. We had multiple notices and fines from our home owners association because he would not get off his butt to mow the lawn or do maintenance.  I was tremendously embarassed by our situation. 

I had trusted that he was visiting parenting websites and sharing information about being a father.  I learned instead that he was trolling a highly trusted national parenting website and looking at the pictures Moms had posted.  He admitted to starting to private message the "cute" ones and this is how the online sexual relationships started.  He later faked business trips to go meet 2 women in person. He lied to me and said that because he was new in a job that he did not have vacation or sick time.  He took one of these trips when our youngest daughter was only 4 weeks old after taking no time off for her birth. I have seen the chat logs and these women were online with him for at least 8 hours a day from work or home, so obviously they have an addiction too. But when you see that your husband is in a parenting chat you don't immediately think its about sex.

The final draw came when he was terminated from his position with the Federal Government for posting to message boards, online chat, and viewing pornography. He was so obsessed with this that using the software provided on his computer at work was not enough that he installed his own unauthorized programs and even tunneled through the firewall back to his home computer. Again, he was hospitalized for the depression that resulted in his life from his two worlds colliding. I left him to live with my parents and divorced 6 months later after attempting marriage therapy and learning that he had no understanding of the impact of his actions.  The adultery was acknowledged by the marriage therapist, but would not go into the impact of being a widow to his computer addiction. 

Even more infuriating was that the psych unit he was on had internet access! So while I was in deep grief over what was happening, he was allowed to go online! He never stopped his second online persona the whole time he was hospitalized. When he got visitation with the kids I caught him that he was posting to a pornographic website while the kids were in his care!  Despite having a court order that he is to stay offline when the kids were in his care, during their last visits the kids reported that Dad made them fly 3 hours to sit in his apartment while he typed on the computer!

I kept hearing over and over that well this is what he does for a living, so obviously it must mean that he gets a free pass or something to be on the computer 22 hours a day and neglect the rest of his life.

Today he is still addicted.  I can do a google search for his known monikers and see that he is still posting to several message boards. From the time date stamps I can tell he is still up to doing this while he is at work.  He has been fired from other jobs since the divorce I suspect for his online activities.

He has not seen his kids in 2 years, he does not pay his court ordered child support, and claims that all he can get is a part time job at a motel.  But I think he has that job because he can sit at a desk all night and post to the internet waiting for people to check in.

 His life is over until he has control over his desire to be a legend in his online mind. I am sick that he posts about being a father to kids he has not seen in two years.  He wants to do online chat and email with the kids and I have firmly said NO. My children will not be multitasked, I insist that their interactions be intentional and with a purpose.  He does not talk to them on the phone because you can tell he is distracted and typing away.

The only people I feel sorry for are my two kids age 8 and 11 that their father chooses to be an online narcissist versus the man I married years ago who once had real goals and a direction to his life.

I am glad this discussion is going on.

If someone would have held my hand years ago and acknowledged that I was living with an addict, and to handle the relationship that way, then my decision making would have been clearer.

I truly hope that support becomes available for the people who live with someone who has this addiction.

I used to cry to my friends, my mother, even my minister that I was so sad and my husband was doing nothing to contribute to the family.  As long as he had a full time job they insisted that I had to give him his computer time.  I was told that he had a "social anxiety disorder" and that the computer was the only thing to relieve his stress.  His therapists never looked at how he was not functioning in real life.  His social skills decreased over time. 

He cannot exist without being the version of himself that he wants to be online. 

I even had a marriage therapist suggest that I get my own separate computer and logins so that I could participate online with him.  This was unrealistic because then who would be watching the kids!

I was told that I was over reacting too many times, but now see it was because therapists (many of whom were in their 60's at the time) had little or no exposure to online life and could not see its addictive qualities.

I doubt that he has found a therapist who really gets it.  But he has to be the one who wants help.  I doubt that he does because what he is doing works for him.  The enablers in his life pat themselves on the back that at least he is not an alcoholic, but don't get it that what he does is equally destructive.

I am glad this discussion is going on.

If someone would have held my hand years ago and acknowledged that I was living with an addict, and to handle the relationship that way, then my decision making would have been clearer.

I truly hope that support becomes available for the people who live with someone who has this addiction.

I used to cry to my friends, my mother, even my minister that I was so sad and my husband was doing nothing to contribute to the family.  As long as he had a full time job they insisted that I had to give him his computer time.  I was told that he had a "social anxiety disorder" and that the computer was the only thing to relieve his stress.  His therapists never looked at how he was not functioning in real life.  His social skills decreased over time. 

He cannot exist without being the version of himself that he wants to be online. 

I even had a marriage therapist suggest that I get my own separate computer and logins so that I could participate online with him.  This was unrealistic because then who would be watching the kids!

I was told that I was over reacting too many times, but now see it was because therapists (many of whom were in their 60's at the time) had little or no exposure to online life and could not see its addictive qualities.

I doubt that he has found a therapist who really gets it.  But he has to be the one who wants help.  I doubt that he does because what he is doing works for him.  The enablers in his life pat themselves on the back that at least he is not an alcoholic, but don't get it that what he does is equally destructive.

I had tried in 1997 to take the computer out of the home.  This caused him to drive over to an internet cafe to get online or go to his parents house.  Eventually his therapist and his family stated that he was so stressed and that the computer was his only release.  I was mocked that it was "just the computer" and why was I jealous of a few games.

I was made to feel guilty that I had a "good man" because at least he was not an alcoholic like so many others we knew.  But his behavior was just as destructive.

It still makes me sick thinking of all the times I was laughed at that how could I be jealous of the computer.  This took the focus off of his behavior of every waking minute online, and placed the blame on me.

In 1997 I had trouble finding a therapist in Portland, Oregon who even had email, not to mention someone who had seen chat or understood its addictive properties.

Kimberly Young published her first paper about the additction in 1996 but I could not get a therapist to read it.  When you are getting help through an HMO with overbooked therapists they just are not going to take that extra step. I worked as hard as I could to support my family, raise two children, and get this man who believed there was nothing wrong some help.

My ex had a lot of issues.  Many that he thought he should have been bigger or more important than what he turned out to be.  He got through college, got married, did all the things a person is "supposed" to do but he was not wildly sucessful and expected much more to be handed to him than he was willing to work toward.  In person he is quite a shy person, but in chat he can be the life of the party.

He suffered from clinical depression which he would never continue his meds on.  Once he started reading conspiracy theories about medications he never went back on them and got even worse. He won't go back to a therapist which in part I blame on that the doctors he has seen spend 30 minutes with him, write a script, and that is it.  He believes that the advice he gets online from people who have "listened" to him is better than professionals.

He has a severe inferiority complex where he is very jealous of what others have and what he believes he cannot accomplish for himself.  He believes that everyone has it easier than him. He is insanely jealous that after the divorce I finished my degree and remarried to a man who is better off financially, but does not see that we work very hard at our family business and do not owe him a thing.

Online you can find a group of folks who will agree with whatever nutcase opinion you may have at that moment.  He had friends online who agreed with his decisions, whose opinions were louder to him than my own.

There is a lot of comfort for him in crawling into the net to be the attractive, sucessful, charming, witty person that he is incapable of being in person.  He can't sincerely admit that he has a problem because life is working out for him so far.  He has arranged his life to have no financial responsibilities and works a menial job that does not interfere with pursuing this interest.

Thank you.

I have not been behind Dr. Phil especially about another program where the husband had an online affair and he wanted her to look at what she could have done to be more available to him.  In my opinion she could only be available to the real person that he is, and this man was probably more in love with the fantasy person he could be online.

The real living breathing people who see you everyday know your problems but love and support you anyway.  The hurt comes from the realization that such loyalty, and believe me I was fiercely loyal to the end, is not reciprocated by someone who finds the kindness of strangers who only know the fantasy a greater comfort.

Internet addiction is one of those issues I think there should be Public Service Announcements about because much of America still sees it as harmless fun. Worse than other addictions I think it will take many more years for a person to bottom out compared to alcoholism or drug abuse.  You don't destroy yourself physically or financially as quickly, but you do lose years of your life.

In any situation you have to learn to listen to your gut which going through this taught me.  My gut was screaming louder than anything else when those around me were dismissing how serious the situation had become.  I married him at 19, we were married for 9 years, this is what made me grow up very fast.

I would have thought that losing your home, your family, your career, and being publicly humiliated would have been the bottom for most people, but it was not for him. I even believed that his relatives would stop supporting him since they always used to be tremendously judgemental about people who did not pay their bills, which is why I worked so hard and went without many things for years.

I have an eye on my kids to make sure that they develop authentic self esteem in the people that they really are and that they do not develop this addiction. I hold very strong opinions about the false self esteem movement which I believe has created a lot more narcissism in our society, just at the time the internet came into play, so that no one knows how to be real.

I am very sensitive to preserving the self esteem of my children, and making sure it is grounded in their authentic selves and true abilities.  In day to day life it feels like over the years my ex husband is more and more of a ghost. He has his own issues and I never want them to be placed on my children as their issues.  He has been caught trying to make the kids feel emotionally responsible for him, and does not get the concept that they deserve to have their own childhoods.

My new husband is very involved in the kids lives and we are questioning if we should go ahead and do a step parent adoption.  I never wanted my children to feel like I ever rushed out of the marriage to their father, nor that I rushed into their stepfather adopting them. 

We have now been married for close to 4 years, have a 2 year old, and another one on the way.  Our marriage is stable and he has none of the addictive issues that my ex husband had.  We spend most of our time together and work very well together in business. He is a very dedicated father who is also committed to doing well in his business life with an extraordinary degree of ethics well recognized by colleagues. I am very proud of him and he is the person I want my children to follow in the footsteps of.

I hope that such an adoption would be to my children that their stepfather chose to be their Dad. They have started complaining about that it makes them feel weird when they go places like to Tae Kwon Do tournaments or school and that he has a different last name.  It really bothers my son that his little brother has a different last name. All the time other parents comment that they are surprised to learn that my husband is the stepfather because he takes so much care with all of the kids. When my brother-in-law passed away we inherited a beautiful hand  carved wooden sign (circa 1900) with my husband's family name from the business once owned and it made my son very upset to see it hung on the wall because it was not part of him. He says that he wants to be a _______ too.

I know that adoption will not erase the issues with their biofather, but I believe that it will make them feel more grounded as a part of the family they live in.  I think that they will be more emotionally equipped to deal with their bio-father's mental illness when they are adults.

I don't think you can ever entirely erase the past, but I think that we just need to take more steps to bury it a little deeper and rejoice in how far we have come as a family.

Read my story, it only gets worse, and unfortunately there are too many people who will just dismiss it as only a game.

You are not the only WOW widow out there.  And when you are not supporting his use of the game, he will find someone online to lament his pain in the situation with.  The number of online affairs starting in WOW would blow your mind. We have friends who play and have told us about people who have their real world spouse and their online WOW spouse. 

Hey in WOW you can be anything you want to be, and he certainly is not sharing that he is an unemployed neglectful father who lives at home with his Mom.

Its not easy to leave.  It took me years and years of it getting worse until I got the ulitimate slap to the face.  Do what you can now while your baby is little to get some solid job skills.  Get the job skills first, something to pay the bills, then finish the bachelors degree later. Take advantage of if his Mom will watch the baby to get yourself into the quickest path to financial independence.

Everyone is so much cooler online! And the rest of us are left to pay the price of the glamorous mental life!

My children are allowed to use the PC that is in the same room as our computers in the main part of the house and have a limit of only 1 hour a day of screen time.  This is either TV, video games, or PC.  By the time they get done with school, sports, dinner, and homework there is no other time to be sitting online. On weekends they get 2 hours day in addition to family movie night.

Using basic windows you can set up an individual login for your kids with permission settings of what times and how long.  My kids can't be on before school, and can't be on until 2 hours after school to ensure that they don't rush through homework or chores to get on the computer.

My kids also have a bedtime of 8pm for 3rd grader and 9pm for 6th grader because they need to be up getting ready for school where we live at 6am.  I think many of these kids who are getting into trouble online are up way past a reasonable bedtime.

On the kids PC they can only go to a white list of sites that I have pre-approved.  If it tries to link to another site, it will not let them go on.  I can also review any sites they attempt to visit.

We have cut off all chat programs at our router for the whole home. Its easily done.

Our X-Box and Wii are also locked down to not allow internet connection unless we enter in a password.  The Wii can be positive choice to watch as a whole family to see content on YouTube or PBS streamed off of the internet.  My kids and I play BrainPop on Wii which is educational.  Both systems let you lock down for ratings and keep kids offline unless there is a password.

A positive option that we give our kids is being able to reserve materials from our local library online.  They enter what they want and when it is ready I pick it up for them.  I know what they are into and they are thrilled to have new books, music, DVDs, and some computer games that they look forward to.

You can also load up FREE eBooks from your local library onto iPod and Mp3 players.  In addition to classic books there are best selling titles and new releases.  I approve what they want before it downloads but it gives them a chance to use this new technology in a positive way.  You can find this at the website for your local library or NetLibrary online.

I have opened up so that my kids can look at all sites with the .gov designation for school projects to see NASA etc which is a lot safer than any of the search engines. Most everything that comes up for a school project is on one of these sites.

I feel that this way you can give your kids the technical literacy about these forms of media, but at the same time encourage positive choices.