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Messages By: julie1418

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February 26, 2006, 5:21 pm CST

yet another opinion

I am really late in joining this discussion, but I have watched both shows and have read most of the message boards. I find myself dwelling on this topic, so I'm going to get this off my chest in hopes that I can end my fascination (obsession?) with the Grant/Kelly saga. 

  

Many people likened a stay at home Mom to a job where you would have  an employer and would be expected to meet a set of requirements and would be evaluated on your performance. Although I understand the rationale behind that argument, I'm not sure that it is a fair, or healthy, analogy. Here's my best explanation why..... 

  

I earned my Masters degree and was promoted to be an Assistant Principal at a school at a fairly young age. It was a different school than where I had been a teacher, and when I started, some of the single female tried to strike up friendships with me. They were terrific ladies, with whom under different circumstances, I would have enjoyed a social/personal relationship. But the bottom line was, I was their boss. I would have to evaluate their professional performances and sometimes have to make unpopular decisions. I could be friendly, but not truly friends. 

  

If you create a situation where one spouse is seen as the boss, evaluator, judge...however you want to phrase it, I think you miss out on the best part of marriage! It is amazing to have that one person who is your confidante, your support system, the person you feel the most comfortable sharing your dreams, fears, successes and failures. 

  

That is not to say you have to accept everything as is. You should have a vision for your life, your home, your future. But it needs to be a shared vision. Grant, the biggest thing wrong with your lists, is that they are YOURS (that, and the hip hop dancing!!:). Kelly, spend some quality time figuring out what you want and need from your life and marriage and be ready to articulate those needs. What if you both created the vision together. Decide how you want your marriage and family to work and how to best achieve that goal. What is a fair division of labor for your circumstances, and what plays best to your individual and mutual strengths? Have equal input and be sure to include lots of patience and flexibility. If you need an impartial third party to moderate so you don't fall back into old roles, get one. 

  

I know you have received so much well-intentioned (mostly) advice from so many Dr. Phil watchers, so here's mine..... Take the advice that works for both of you and throw the rest away. If you want a cleaning lady, get one. If you want to spend every Sunday night scrubbing floors with your toothbrushes GO FOR IT. Create your vision for your family. Oh, and be ready to renegotiate every once and a while...circumstances change and things don't always work out the way we expect. 

  

For the sake of credibility, I am a stay at home Mom of two toddlers. I tried not to include how things work in my home because I think it is irrelevant. I really want to avoid the THIS IS WHAT WORKS AND MAKES SENSE TO ME, THEREFORE EVERYONE ELSE MUST AGREE mentality. 

  

Please forgive the wordiness (if anyone is still reading). Hopefully, I can sleep tonight without having the mental arguments running through my head. 

  

Good luck, Grant and Kelly. For all of the heated debate you have generated, I think everyone would applaud if you ended up being Dr. Phil's biggest success! 

  

Julie 

 
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February 27, 2006, 8:09 am CST

grrrr

Quote From: breewalsh

Are you serious? 

  

What if Kelly doesn't like the way Grant engineered the newest building in town?  Is she to do it HERSELF?  Please... 

  

Or what if Grant decides to take off work for a month without consulting anyone and he's not paid?  Do you think that Kelly has a right to say something?  OF COURSE!!  It affects her and the kids, so she has a right... 

  

Much as Grant has the right to mention to Kelly that the way she is loading knives in the dishwasher could cause harm to one of the kids if she isn't paying attention while unloading it, or if the pantry is so extremely disorganized that both are being inefficient when trying to use it.... 

  

It's the same thing...Because each of them have chosen roles for this household and Kelly should be ready for the hardships, much as Grant is with his position. 

If Kelly doesn't like how Grant engineered a building, she is to do or say NOTHING because she is not his boss!!  A marital relationship is really nothing like an  employment relationship! 

  

Grant did not come on the show expressing a concern that Kelly's housekeeping was endangering the children. He had an inventory of ways to fix or improve Kelly as a housekeeper, wife, cook, etc. It's not that some concerns were not legitimate. I think Dr. Phil turned the topic away from the house stuff and towards the marriage stuff because he understands that the MARRIAGE is way more important than the house. 

  

  

 
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February 28, 2006, 4:51 am CST

getting it

Quote From: chdsgrl

Bree, 

  

Some people don't get it.  A lot of women think that even if they stay home, as long as they're "nice" to their husbands, they shouldn't have to lift a finger.  I think Kelly does all she can with 3 little ones running around, and is probably just totally overwhlemed, and having Grant "watching" over her doesn't help.  I think if Grant fine tuned his requests, Kelly would be much more willing to accomodate them.  But, in general, I think alot of women take advantage of staying home, and that's really too bad.  I agree with what you said in your post, and it's too bad the other poster doesn't get it. 


Diana 

Diana, have read the posting through both shows and I alternately think you are right on or out of your mind. I have a feeling you are more middle ground than you come across. 

  

I don't get the sense that Stay at home Moms think, be nice, chase the kids, and your day is done. It's the idea of viewing your spouse as your employer/boss that offends many women. Think about it, most companies will not allow spouses to work in the same department, especially if one is in a supervisory position. It rarely works.  

  

Before I met my wonderful husband, I was in a relationship with a man who was incredibly critical (ironically enough, he was an electrical engineer!). he told me how to drive, dress, cook, brush my teeth, and do MY job as a teacher. ANd the relationship doesn't start that way,,,,it is slow, and insidious until you are so demoralized and emotionally drained you don't know how to break the cycle . I thank God everyday that I didn't marry the guy. With children, it would have gotten so much worse. The kicker is, he HONESTLY thought what he was doing was okay. His take was, if I'm better at something, why shouldn't I show you how to so it better. I'm helping!  Somehow, he assumed he was better at EVERYTHING! 

  

Maybe the big NOT GETTING IT is not living in someone else's shoes. Bree says she is 24 and married two years. If she met her Prince Charming at such a young age and they truly share a vision for their family and future, that's great. Most of us had to kiss a few frogs along the way and have become jaded and defensive. To make yourself financially and emotionally vulnerable to someone else can be scary. 

  

I think Dr. Phil GETS IT. (I am a huge fan) If you read the overview of this topic it states that he focused on Grant because his critical spirit was overshadowing anything Kelly was doing or not doing. I don't think reorganizing the house will fix the relationship. I do believe that fixing the relationship might help get the externals of the house in order.   

  

Strangely, since the show aired, I've had a really good week in terms of keeping my own two toddler house in order. Go figure! My husband is also getting lots of appreciation (if the house gets crazy, he asks, how can I help?). Now I have to go peel Elmo stickers off the kitchen floor! 

  

Julie 

  

  

 
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February 28, 2006, 11:12 am CST

02/21 More Wifestyles

Quote From: chdsgrl

Julie, 


I understand why they focused on Grant so much. I agree that he has a lot of things that need to be worked on.   

  

Some of my comments don't have anything to do with Grant and Kelly.  Like the one you replied to was just a comment in regards to one poster who said that she stays home, but doesn't feel like lifting a finger because as long as she's nice, that's all that matters. 

  

I don't think it matters how old you are when you get "it".  As long as you get it, that's all that matters. 

  

I'm glad your husband helps out.  I think husbands should!! 

  

Diana

Please forgive me if this is redundant....I posted a message and the screen went blank so I'm trying again. 

  

When I saw you on the first show, I found you kind of offensive (I realize they edit for time and effect). After reading your posts, I realize I agree with you on many issues. I have also found that trying to keep my home reasonably clean and organized keeps us all more peaceful and gives us more time to enjoy each other. 

  

The one issue that I'm still struggling with is why you think you have the right to have a problem with how someone else lives their life. If that poster literally doesn't lift a finger, and her husband is happy and the family is in harmony, well OK! 

  

I have a cleaning lady every other week. We also have a lawn and pool service. I could list all our reasons why and the circumstances of our life, and you would most likely say "Oh, well it's okay in THAT case." But the bottom line is, you don't have the RIGHT to have a problem with my cleaning lady. Just like I don't have the right to have a problem with your 20 minute house cleaning! (I don't really want lessons, but if you could get it in a pill form.......LOL) 

  

I have come to the conclusion that you do have some valuable insights and ideas. If you could tone down the judgement, I think people would be more receptive to what you have to say. 

  

My reason for mentioning Bree's age was simply the point that if she found Mr Right at young age, she probably didn't have many negative relationship experiences. The same could be said of a 40 year old who was still happy with her high school sweetheart.  

  

Julie 

  

  

 
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February 28, 2006, 12:13 pm CST

bias

Quote From: amyjo304

If Diana is biased then what is my excuse and Bree's excuse for our thoughts?  Don't assume that it is all about money for Diana.

We are ALL biased! Go read Life Strategies where Dr. Phil talks about there being no reality, just perception of reality. Our perceptions are based on so many factors, including personal experiences.   

  

I think Dr Phil could do a show on RIGHT FIGHTERS and pick his guests right from these message boards.  

  

I've only posted a few times, but if I have been nasty, judge mental, sarcastic, or just plain mean to anybody, I sincerely apologize. I really want to limit my words and behavior to those I would like my children to emulate.  I truly support all of you in your marriages and homes, and hope you will all do the same for me and each other. 

  

Julie 

 
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February 28, 2006, 1:09 pm CST

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Quote From: chdsgrl

I personally think that if you have had a failed marriage, or problems in your current one that that just makes you more insightful to what you need to do to have a happy marriage. 

  

I think Amy's experience only makes her more educated on what works well and what doesn't work at all. 

  

  

Diana 

I think it makes her more insightful to what does and doesn't work in HER marriage. She looks at Grant and Kelly, thinks of her marriage, and draws conclusions. Grant reminds me of my ex-boyfriend, and I thank my lucky stars I got out with any self-esteem intact. I'm glad her relationship works now, and I'm REALLY glad I moved on to greener pastures! 

  

  

If there was a simple, easy formula for relationships, there wouldn't be over 2500 posts to this topic!  

  

Julie 

  

  

 
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February 28, 2006, 2:07 pm CST

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Quote From: gak815

Hello all of you! A few comments have come to mind as I have been watching these boards. They are not defensive. I am just clarifying some things since it has provoked quite the discussion.  I did not ask Grant for the list of 75 things. That list was in response to our second show and the fact that he felt like he was "white knuckeling" it. He was asked what I still needed lessons in. He then told the show that he felt that any "domestic engineer" should have knowledge in those areas as well.  I asked Grant to tell me something specific that I could work on for him. Maybe ironing all his work shirts for a week, maybe cleaning off his desk-whatever. He could not give me an answer. He eventually told me he would have to get back to me. He did not get back to me.  I did the same thing in the kitchen. I asked him what he would like to see me cook. He has a hard time answering me.  Maybe it is because my cooking really does bite, or maybe he doesn't really know what he wants. I do believe it really is an attitude thing. It is how both of us feel on the inside. I do not mean to minimize how our home and environment contribute to how we both feel. It is just plain easier to breath in a clean and de cluttered home.   But even today, I believe that the only thing Grant knows for sure is that he wants less anxiety and fustration.  Ironically enough,  I too want less anxiety and fustration! Kelly

Kelly....good to hear from you! It must be very strange to have so many people vehemently weighing in on you and your marriage. 

  

I know you have received so much advice....mine has nothing to do with your house. After I broke up with MY electrical engineer, I was devastated. He was hyper critical and dangled the approval/commitment carrot just close enough to keep me jumping through hoops to please him.My mother gave me Life Strategies to read, and told me to read like it was a mirror. I had never even heard of Dr Phil!  

  

If you haven't already read it, it is easy to read and think of others, but you need to concentrate on yourself....not because you are wrong, but because you can't fix other people! I sobbed reading the book. As much as I believe my ex was emotionally abusive (Dr Phil defines the withholding of affection as a form of abuse), I had to concentrate on how I allowed myself to be a victim and seriously trained him how to treat me.  

  

The book changed me from the inside out. I realize that you are married with three kids, so you should exhaust every option before considering leaving. If you figure out how to love and value yourself as much as you love and value your husband, I think you will find peace. 

  

For the record, I think you handle yourself with amazing dignity. I don't want to bash Amy, but I'm not sure it was a great idea to have a stranger weigh in on your marriage on TV. I don't think it's a winning situation for anybody. 

  

If this is of no help, please disregard it completely. I hope you and Grant find a way to be truly happy. 

  

Julie 

 
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February 28, 2006, 5:23 pm CST

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Quote From: gak815

You asked Grant what specific areas of improvement you needed to work on and he couldnt answer you.  You asked for specific dinner requests and he had a hard time answering you.   Why is that,  Kelly?     

  Honestly, I can't speak for Grant but he just seems overwhelmed.  My personal interpretation was that one or two things was too specific and it was too much. (He would probably tell you he did not know where to start LOL).  

 

Has Grant started wearing his ring?  If no, why do you believe he doesent wear it?  

Grant has not put his ring back on, however the ring is very big. I am not sure what the real issue is there, but he hesitates to have it reduced so much and mess up the engraving.  I am hoping to see the ring back on that finger soon, but I don't want to push. That seems to slow things down.  

 

Do you think the house is a shambles and Grant has reason to feel the way he does?  Or do you think you do a fairly good job considering you have three young children?  

The house is far from a disaster. It is attractive and I get many many compliments on it.  

We do suffer from a lack of storage. I am trying to be creative. The children's stuff certainly adds up and it is also hard to know what to keep and what to get rid of.  My hidden spaces like closets and drawers are worse off than the rest of the home. In general, what you see looks good.  I really enjoy flylady.net. I am learning just to get rid of stuff.  I do love clothes!!! It is very difficult to clean with the little ones. They are 1, 3 and 4. They can almost undo anything! They  all nap at 1 pm however, and it is nice!  I am trying not to clean when they lay down because then it feels like that is what I do from the time I wake up till I go to bed.  I don't think that our home should cause the grief to Grant that he claims to feel from it.  I am making a concerted effort to declutter the home and to have it organized very well. It is not just for Grant. I appreciate it too, but I am not convinced that I will have a much happier hubby post "spotless home".  

 

Do you think there could be any merit to Grant having a possible disorder?  

I don't see that Grant has a severe disorder. I see that he is unhappy and pointing the finger at me.  

 

Does your family support you emotionally?  

My family is great. I have 4 siblings and they all support Grant and I. I have one big brother who chooses not to watch the show because he wants to keep liking Grant LOL. They make sure I am okay, but thay also know Grant well and they know that part of it is Grant being Grant.  

 

What does your father think of all this?  Your mother?   

My father passed away last Fall- just a couple of weeks before we taped the first show.  The show would have been close to impossible for me if my father were present. He thought the world of Grant and was very proud of him.  I was his baby and he would not have managed that very well.  My mother supports this whole deal. She is all for plowing through it now as opposed to later.  

  

Kelly 

   

I have to agree when you say a perfect house won't give you a happier husband. 

  

When you say Grant is overwhelmed, unhappy and pointing the finger at you, a light bulb went off my head. Do you think it's possible (and again I don't know either of you  and I could be way off) that Grant is overwhelmed by the whole reality of marriage, three small children, the financial pressures, etc.? And on some level he is afraid to articulate those fears because it is too horrible to think, much less say, anything that sounds like "I regret having children so soon and close together, I hate all this responsibility, I'm afraid I can't handle this."  

  

I have heard it said that when a person tries so desperately to control externals it is usually because the overwhelming chaos inside is too difficult or painful to process. (that may be Dr Phil!) 

  

If you think this is a possibility, maybe you could bring it up to Grant and let him know that he can talk to you about this without being judged. Obviously, you can't give back the kids, and neither of you would really want to, but if he felt safe just articulating any fears/concerns, that might help you both work through them. 

  

I know I delved into some risky territory here, so feel free to tell me where to go (kindly, please - I have good intentions !) 

  

Lots of luck, 

Julie 

 
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February 28, 2006, 7:27 pm CST

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Quote From: karinstear

Hi  - Cleaning a house is not rewarding because it always gets messed up again?  I remember Grant mentioning CD's to be put away, a refrig. to be cleaned out, a bathroom to be cleaned - When you organize CD's and put them away, THE JOB IS DONE!  When you clean out a refrig., THE JOB IS DONE - These aren't EVERYDAY tasks!  AND..............why is a bathroom so dirty that you have to SCRUB it?  She has certain expectations of Grant, like going to work and financing their lives - He too has expectations - It seems as though her part is lacking - You can always find an excuse not to do something - (the children are sick, a friend stopped in, I have a headache, too many calls came in, I had to stop at the store, I had a hair appt.) If you don't want to do it, you don't do it - I heard her say that she wanted a nice clean house too - WELL......................What's the hold up?  ORGANIZE!!!!   She has gotten to a point that it is sooooooooooo bad that she feels like she doesn't know where to start - JUST START!!   You asked about her dreams and if they are being buried - She should have thought about getting married and having a family or finishing her dreams - You're right, he is not her employer - It's ashame that he has to even mention the household !  AND........yes, you're right, the household is not only her worry alone - He goes to work so that he does not have to worry about mortgage payments - He's doing his part!

I get that you seem to be in a heated battle with another poster, but this seems pretty harsh. The person you are really bashing here is Kelly, and as far as I can see, she is not arguing with you nor has she written an unkind comment to ANYONE. 

  

The truth is, none of us really know what the refrigerator, bathrooms, etc. are like in their home. Even if we did, we'd probably still disagree....eye of the beholder and all of that. We also don't fully know the inner workings of their relationship.  I don't think any of us have the right to assume we fully get it. 

  

Julie 

  

  

 
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March 1, 2006, 9:48 am CST

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Quote From: obxsister

Everything here is not ABOUT YOU!!!!

Actually, I think Diana (perhaps unwittingly) makes a very good point here..... 

  

Is a loving, supportive, helpful husband the key to a happy, well-run home and family? 

  

OR   

  

Is a Mexican food cooking, Hip Hop dancing, Major Appliance Maintaining, Martha Stewart wannabe wife the key to a happy, loving husband? 

  

Food for thought..... 

  

  

 

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