Messages By: julie1418

Diana,  

Although I don't necessarily agree with all of your ideas, it was never my intention to be nasty to you. 

The point of my post was first and foremost an attempt to be lighthearted. I also think those of us who have terrific, helpful husbands have an easier time with the house stuff. When BOTH spouses are helping and supporting each other, the big stuff is easier and the the details become petty and insignificant. You give and take and trust without keeping score. 

Julie 

GRANT!!!!!!!! 

Just when I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you are well intentioned and have some valid points, you set me straight!!! 

Do you have a right to want your home clean and organized. Sure. You don't have the right to set yourself up as your wife's judge/jury/critic.   

In my opinion, you don't even know what you are unhappy about. I think you are afraid to realize that YOU feel overwhelmed by life with three toddlers, YOU miss having a wife who isn't distracted and tired.  YOU feel the financial pressures and are uncertain of the future. All of those things would be normal and better than berating your wife on national TV about pantry organization. 

You have a beautiful, loving wife who handles herself with grace and dignity. Hang on to her tightly....after your performances on the Dr. Phil show, I can only think of three women who would even consider taking you on (and I believe they are already married!) 

I know it must be difficult to be analyzed and dissected by total strangers. You and Kelly should get some sort of prize as Most Talked About Dr Phil guests. I wanted to believe that anyone who watched 24 had to have some good sense.  PLEASE, even if you think it's completely crazy, try to entertain the idea that there are deeper issues than the house.  

I guess I am just a little confused about some of you points and maybe it is because I already have an amazing husband that I haven't had to confront him on the issues that you all are writing about.  

BINGO!! I honestly think I have the world's most amazing husband. Before I met  him I dated the world's least amazing man!! There is a HUGE difference between a man who trusts and respects you and a man who stands over you and tries to correct how you boil water (I'm not kidding). 

I do think keeping up with the house is important to me and my family. Nobody has the right to dictate to what extent. If my husband has concerns, we discuss them together. Some days I go into his home office to retrieve dish collection that are NOT pretty. Do I make a federal case out of it? No. He loves me and good to me in so many ways, it is SO unimportant. I forget to turn off lights. He playfully rolls his eyes at me, shuts the light off, and we go on with our day. 

THE BOTTOM LINE (my version of "getting it") 

The house is important...the marriage and relationship are more important!  

Julie 

PS Without ever stepping into your house, I am sure you are better at managing your house than I am....TRULY...no sarcasm. I'm okay with it. I have my talents, you have yours. 

I do believe that Kelly wants to be more organized, because she has stated it.  I think that one of two things is happening. 1) she is choosing not to do it because of Grant's criticism or 2) she simply doesn't know how.  If it is #1 she is damaging the relationship because she is confusing Grant by saying one thing and not following through with it.  If it is #2 than she just simply needs to ask for help  

I have "been there" too, but with entirely different results. I believe with 100% certainty that if I had stayed in that relationship, I still would not be good enough. How clean or organized a house needs to be is so subjective --- just read all these posts!!! ---- that Grant has the power to NEVER be satisfied. 

I look at it this way. If Kelly isn't conforming to Grant's "standards" because of his criticism, it is probably because she feels there is no point. Whatever she does will be criticized. That was my experience. I DREADED driving with my EX. He told me when to change gears, change lanes, slow down, speed up, blah, blah, blah. It gets to the point where if you don't tune it out, you'll have a nervous breakdown! 

I realized after the breakup that it really wasn't about me. He was like that in EVERY aspect of his life. He actually went into his job performance review with a list of ways the company was not meeting his standards/expectations!! 

Whether Grant and Kelly are more like your situation or mine, only they know for sure (and they probably don't agree!!) I know when I watch him and read his posts, I get post-traumatic flashbacks!!  

Just when I'm resigned to strongly dislike you, you make me laugh out loud....twice!! 

Here's a solution....quit your job as an engineer to get yourself out of the mindset of focusing on details and take that stand up act on the road! 

Seriously, if you read the post of the women advocating living up to expectations of a stay at home Mom, they ALL speak of their husbands as helpful, supportive, and respectful. I doubt any of their husbands have ever used real or metaphorical white gloves.  

I also don't think the posters who say "you can't please him so why try" are not necessarily speaking of their own situations, but rather yours.  Cleanliness and organization are matters of degrees and subjective judgment.  I don't think you've instilled a lot of faith (in Kelly or your new fan club) that you will ever be satisfied.  

I wish you would even TRY to consider a different perspective to this. I know you think you are RIGHT, but what if you're not? At least NOT ENTIRELY right? Could you at least entertain the possibility? 

Julie 

I think your system sounds great, and I'll probably do something similar when my kids are older. I think standards are appropriate for different phases of Mommyhood. I'm teaching my 3 year old and 18 month old to pick up their stuff, but it actually takes more time than if I just did it myself. 

Julie 

Could you reinforce to Grant that your husband appreciates, helps, respects, doesn't set nit picky standards.....he's latching on to all YOU do, but doesn't seem to be digesting the rest. Or maybe he is just very skilled at the art of verbal (written) combat, and enjoys all the attention! 

Right back at you!!  

I agree that Grant is probably the most unhappy. My ex was a very unhappy person. But my situation was very different in that we did not have kids, we weren't married or even living together. The stakes were not nearly as high. The breakup was more him than me. When I finally challenged him on the constant criticism, he let me know in no uncertain terms that he was not going to change. He actually had tears in his eyes when he told me he knew if he didn't let me go, he would just keep hurting me. I have to give him credit for that. Deep down, he knew his limitations.  

And NOW, everything is happy, happy with my terrific husband and two adorable boys. That's why I personally get so frustrated with Grant. He thinks he missing out on an organized house, but what he's really missing out on is the joy of having a true partner.  I think everybody hopes they make it. REALLY make it, not just one of them deciding to cave and live a life of resentment. 

I absolutely agree!! I was referring more to the message boards.  

If you read some of my earlier postings, I stated that the house may be important, but the RELATIONSHIP is way more important. My personal opinion is that Grant doesn't even know what he is unhappy about. He has created an ambiguous, unattainable standard for Kelly so he has a target to vent his emotions. 

 I am really glad you take your role as a wife and mother so seriously, and as a career 

Here is where I'm struggling, and I'm reflecting more on personal experiences and somewhat about these postings...... 

When I left the workforce to be a stay at home mom, the thing that astonished me the most was the level of COMPETITION between the other Moms. It is like women knew they wanted to stay home, but couldn't give up the driven, career mentality. When it comes to the house, cooking, kids, there is so much "Oh you HAVE to do this, you CAN'T do that, why aren't you??????"  

Since becoming pregnant I have been openly judged (by family, friends, and strangers) on not finding out the gender of our children, breastfeeding, binkies, bottles, cleaning, which products I use, organic food, blah,blah,blah.  Maybe I'm naive, but I thought one of the perks of getting out of the rat race was GETTING OUT OF THE RAT RACE! 

Now I don't let anyone outside of family offer unsolicited advice about my childrearing unless it is accompanied by a contribution to the college fund. As far as my house goes, it's far from perfect, but my husband and I are happy with our balance. 

Diana, this is not specifically directed at you. Your career line kind of struck a nerve. I know it can be interpreted different ways. 

It seems the debate becomes (or has become) who gets to decide what 100% is. The role of a SAHM is really not quantifiable, especially since everyone's cirumstances are unique.  

The SAHMs I know are supportive and helpful, but there seems to be this underlying current of judgement. It's almost like adolescent peer pressure! You have to do what I do to validate my decisions! 

I honestly don't know any women women who "take advantage" of staying home. Or maybe I just don't care.