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Messages By: princess27

princess27
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May 8, 2006, 11:57 pm PDT

I Cried watching this....(shock, emotions, anger)

Quote From: mbm501

they poured heart and soul out to Phil, he didn't even hug the boy, and then sent them home with those wretched people!

Not only did it bring back memories of my childhood, and how helpless I felt when my sister got whacked in the head by my step dad, or how we flinched when he walked by, I felt the pain the kids were feeling at the time. They were scared to tell, which is exactly what happened to me as a child; my sister told teachers/counselors and CPS, but I wouldn't talk. They would ask me why and I would reply "because you aren't coming home with me, you don't know the wrath of telling and what can you do anyway?" What was their answer? They could NEVER do anything. Well, we can report it, then tell your parents (the villians?). I hated the cycle, it was a horrible cycle, and so I felt for thes kids today very much.  

  

To be sent home, with just a "your mom is going to get help" I could feel the kids' emotions as they were uneasy about "going home". They get to go back to that. Sure, it may get better here and there, or they may do it less at first.  

  

To me, that is utter and complete abuse, and it was recorded. If a man did that to his wife, he would go to jail and be prosecuted. But an adult is allowed to do that to a child with only a call to a therapist/and or cps? NOT GOOD ENOUGH! I'M SORRY BUT THIS IS THE YEAR 2006, CAN'T WE DO MORE THAN WE DID 20 YEARS AGO BY NOW? 

  

I am utterly astonished that this woman did not walk off the show in handcuffs, booked, and in jail for at least two month's time (at least). CPS should follow up, take the kids (or at least only let her see then with supervision), meanwhile she needs to go to anger management classes, and court appointments as needed, and be constantly followed up on to see if she CAN EARN HER KIDS BACK. She cannot be alone with them. And I AM SORRY BUT THE husband is obviously an abuser, as well. The kind that sounds charming on the outside, but also abuses and lets it happen (which would be abuse, too). He will let it happen again. They need more than just help.  

  

They need to be ARRESTED, booked, prosecuted, mandated to go to court, have supervised visitations, anger management classes, parenting classes, and non-compliance takes away more rights or causes them to spend more time in jail. I believe this would be the only way. It was obvious they did not see the error of their ways. IT WAS A SHOCKING SHOW TO SAY THE LEAST, but sadly, it happens all over America; neglect, hitting, yelling, and lots of abuse. I hope the neighbors are smart enough now to at least call the police or CPS next time they hear something like that. I would love to see the follow up show.  

  

This show was more shocking than Dateline's abusive one. I am appalled that woman walked out of the studio, without CPS to make a report then and there, the police to arrest and book her. Completely stunned and shocked,,,, 

  

what are your opinions??? 

  

-bablondie25 from Seattle area, WA 
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 12:07 am PDT

Call CPS, you can do it anonymously!

Quote From: jcaseywv

THE SHOW SCARED ME AND I CRYED. MY DAUGHTER IS ABUSIVE TO HER CHILDREN AND ACTS JUST LIKE THAT. I'VE TRYED TALKING TO HER AND SHE GETS ABUSIVE VERBALLY TOWARDS ME AND THERE HAS BEEN TIMES SHES STRUCK AT ME TO, THEN SHE KEEPS MY GRAND-CHILDREN FROM ME. PLEASE SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE. AND NO I DO NOT APPROVE OF ANYONE TOUCHING A CHILD AND HURTING THEM. MY DAUGHTER WAS NOT RAISED TO ACT IN THIS WAY.
You owe it to them. CPS (Child Protective Services) isn't the "heaven" but it will help, at least they will know about it. It is better that you are not anonymous and can let them know about actual events you've seen or heard about. They will not tell your daughter that you were the one that called. I was abused as a child, and any help from an adult is needed, the kids cannot do it themselves. I hope you make the right choice, it's in your phonebook.
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 12:12 am PDT

reply...about the mom

Quote From: mojave51

I AGREE THAT THE KIDS ARE NOT SAFE AND NEVER SAID THEY WEREN'T.  MY POINT IS THAT MANY ON THIS BOARD ARE ABUSING THESE PARENTS JUST AS MUCH AS THEY HAVE ABUSED THEIR KIDS.  DEMANDING JAIL TIME AND VERBALLY ABUSING THE PARENTS IS NOT AN ANSWER TO THIS WIDE-SPREAD ATROCITY - IT ONLY SHOWS THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD HAVE AS MUCH RAGE AS KAREN DOES.  AS DR. PHIL STATED, KAREN (AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD) ARE HURTING INSIDE.  SO MY POINT IS THIS:  LET HE WHO HAS NO SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE.  LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE LOTS OF STONES BEING THROWN AT THESE PARENTS.  ALL ABUSE NEEDS TO STOP, INCLUDING THOSE POINTING FINGERS AT THE PARENTS  - OR ELSE IT WILL JUST PERPETUATE.
I am a godly person, and letting abuse go on is not what God intended. In the Bible, people were punished for their sins, and this woman deserves some jail time, along with classes on parenting, and anger management, some counseling, and even some talks with a minister. But she does not have any right to get away with what she has done. She is messed up. The one who told on Jesus and had him arrested, paid dearly, with his life. At least she gets only CPS called on her, no one has hit her.
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 12:16 am PDT

You go!

Quote From: tayla69

Many in my time, (the babyboomers 1945-1959) watched our relatives and neighbors get beat BADLY by their parents as seen in this clip for Mondays show.  IT WAS TYPICAL of how parents punished their children.    

  

My husband has 11 siblings him being #9.  They grew up watching their Dad BEAT the living daylights out of their mother on a weekly basis.  She had:  

  

  • Both her legs broken 3 times
  • Both her arms broken 2 times
  • Her face and cheeks beat severly
  • Her eyes blacked out all the time
  • Her one kidney removed because of a severe beating involving her being kicked badly on that kidney
  • A 12 guage shotgun, cocked, safety off and trigger pulled while pointed in the middle of her forehead.  Fortunately, the oldest son (at age 15 at the time) knew the Dad had loaded it and he would unload it every time the Dad loaded it.  When the Dad pulled the trigger and nothing happened, he beat her severely
  • Had a miscarriage because of a beating
  • Stayed with him until the youngest was 3 when she sat them down and asked if they would be ok if she and Daddy lived apart.  They cried tears of JOY!!! She was soooo shocked...she thought they wanted to have their Dad there with them!!
  • ALL 11 of the children have had at least 2 children.  ALL OF THEM HAVE NEVER laid a hand on their child, using other methods to "punish".
  • Everytime my husband and I watch a television movie, or talk show with abuse, he always says, "Why do people continue to use it happen to me, so I continue the abuse excuse'??  Everyone is an adult..GROW UP!  GET HELP!!  My husband and his siblings cannot understand how someone could do this to their child, especially when they have suffered the same treatment.

So, even though Karen MAY have had this same type of abuse bestowed upon her during her childhood, this is NO REASON to do this to her innocent children.  There are those who NEVER EVER do this to their children, even though they have had severe emotional and physical abuse done to them for many many years.  Please do not allow this EXCUSE to continue.  If you see abuse, hear abuse, or a child tells you about abuse.....R E P O R T  I T!!!!  Get Children's Protective Service involved and keep on them!!! You will GET RESULTS!!  

I agree, I have been abused, and go out of my way to learn about good parenting, and I would never hit my kids or scream or swear at them. I don't do the other extreme, either and let them get away with things. I have found balance, and it works for me. People always have the excuse, about it being done to them, so that gives them the excuse to do it to their kids. The mom obviously hates her life, and is taking it out on them. She hates herself. She needs some serious therapy...big time. Poor kids. She is a beast. Well now, hopefully the teaches, classmates, neighbors, coworkers, etc. saw and will report and help when needed.
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 12:21 am PDT

Well, somewhat like you...

Quote From: tyffani

 How I wish I had Dr. Phil when I was young!  Tonight's show was really hard to watch as it was a very similar scene in my house!  My mother wouldn't use the same profanity- but the rages were just as intense- and in our case, a belt was used instead of a stick.  My  father was aware, other family members and friends were aware--and yet, everyone else was scared of her too- so no one helped.  I have gone on to be a somewhat functional and successful human being-- but low self-esteem is a continuing theme in my life- and my relationship with my mother continues to be a struggle.  She is currently an alcoholic (she wasn't drinking when I was young)- and she continues to struggle with her own demons.

I feel so deeply for those kids.  I'm so happy Dr. Phil has reached out a helping hand- but I am concerned for them to go back home with that monster in the house.  I hope the Dr. Phil staff is doing more behind the scenes than what it appears.  It is heartwrenching to see they still clearly love their mom, even though she treats them so badly.  They've had to grow up so fast, but yet, are still little people unable to stand up to the big bully that threatens them everyday.  I know that feeling-- a deep pit in the middle of your stomach, and the constant walking on egg shells you have to do.  I will be very anxious to see how Dr. Phil coaches this family. 

Thank you for tackling this topic.
I did have help. My sister would tell,,,still nothing happened. CPS knew about it for years. They couldn't do anything....EVER. They did nothing for me and my sister...some big help they were. So I doubt that much will happen for these two, although the CPS system has somewhat changed over the years. They do have court mandates and things like that now. The most my step dad ever got was maybe a day or two in jail here or there, only because we called the police on him. He never went to jail for child abuse, only for spousal abuse. I doubt a lot of people even do go to jail for child abuse, or do they?
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 12:48 am PDT

I cried upon viewing this show...

Not only did it bring back memories of my childhood, and how helpless I felt when my sister got whacked in the head by my step dad, or how we flinched when he walked by, I felt the pain the kids were feeling at the time. They were scared to tell, which is exactly what happened to me as a child; my sister told teachers/counselors and CPS, but I wouldn't talk. They would ask me why and I would reply "because you aren't coming home with me, you don't know the wrath of telling and what can you do anyway?" What was their answer? They could NEVER do anything. Well, we can report it, then tell your parents (the villians?). I hated the cycle, it was a horrible cycle, and so I felt for thes kids today very much.  

  

To be sent home, with just a "your mom is going to get help" I could feel the kids' emotions as they were uneasy about "going home". They get to go back to that. Sure, it may get better here and there, or they may do it less at first.  

  

To me, that is utter and complete abuse, and it was recorded. If a man did that to his wife, he would go to jail and be prosecuted. But an adult is allowed to do that to a child with only a call to a therapist/and or cps? NOT GOOD ENOUGH! I'M SORRY BUT THIS IS THE YEAR 2006, CAN'T WE DO MORE THAN WE DID 20 YEARS AGO BY NOW? 

  

I am utterly astonished that this woman did not walk off the show in handcuffs, booked, and in jail for at least two month's time (at least). CPS should follow up, take the kids (or at least only let her see then with supervision), meanwhile she needs to go to anger management classes, and court appointments as needed, and be constantly followed up on to see if she CAN EARN HER KIDS BACK. She cannot be alone with them. And I AM SORRY BUT THE husband is obviously an abuser, as well. The kind that sounds charming on the outside, but also abuses and lets it happen (which would be abuse, too). He will let it happen again. They need more than just help.  

  

They need to be ARRESTED, booked, prosecuted, mandated to go to court, have supervised visitations, anger management classes, parenting classes, and non-compliance takes away more rights or causes them to spend more time in jail. I believe this would be the only way. It was obvious they did not see the error of their ways. IT WAS A SHOCKING SHOW TO SAY THE LEAST, but sadly, it happens all over America; neglect, hitting, yelling, and lots of abuse. I hope the neighbors are smart enough now to at least call the police or CPS next time they hear something like that. I would love to see the follow up show.  

  

This show was more shocking than Dateline's abusive one. I am appalled that woman walked out of the studio, without CPS to make a report then and there, the police to arrest and book her. Completely stunned and shocked,,,, 

  

what are your opinions??? 

  

-bablondie25 from Seattle area, WA 
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 1:45 am PDT

I'm also a stay-at-home mom!

I enjoy, in fact LOVE being a stay at home mom. I am finishing up my last two math classes, at a university as well. I actually don't want to go back to work, for several years. I'm not sure if that will be possible because it is really difficult to live off one income. I do try to help my hubby out, by cutting back as much as possible, and having a "humble" online ebay business.  

  

I love my two kids, and stayed home with my 10-yr.-old daughter for her first year of life. Now my son is 6 month's old, and I hope we can keep making it (or should I say "scraping") on one income. I am so stressed and overtired while working an office or social service job, and at home I feel most comfortable, and I do a really good job. I believe the impact on my kids by staying at home will last with them for a lifetime. Yes, I'm educated, yes, I am business-minded, yet I love "being home" as well.  
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 4:31 pm PDT

I'm sorry, but I do not feel sorry for Karen

Quote From: hiljesmom

 I am sitting here reading all these message's and cant understand how people can just go  off  and not even credit Karen for the wanting  to get help! I under  NO circumstances  agree with what she was doing but you can see in her eyes it is killing her as  well . I know , I was somewhat like her at one time . I have two daughters now 15&13 .  I am a single mom and have been since my 13 was born. I was alot like Karen is to 10 year old Brandon . I almost always picked fights with my defenseless litte daughter (the now 15yr old) she was only like 4 or 5 and I expeceted her to be perfect and to listen and to do all these things she shouldnt be doing cause she was just a little girl ! Then the abuse ( I stronly feel  I was abusive towards her) stopped until she was like 10 . Then because I had a busy and unfulfilled life , I took out all my anger and aggression on her (never my younger daughter just her) . Then one day when she was like 11 I swore to my self and my god that I would never touch my daughter out of anger again !! I was horrible and I look into her eyes to this day and see a partial brokern spirit of which I caused ! I love her so much and just as I know Karen loves her beautiful son but what Karen needs to understand is ...once it goes to far , counseling and all the love and support inthe world cannot erase his memories. But she can change and try to make things better for him , her and the rest of the family . I  now have a wonderful relationship with my daughters and I have talked to my oldest and told her it was wrong and I aplogized to her and told her it was never her fault and that I hope she can forgive me. One day she came up to me and said "mommy I love you and I do forgive you" ! But Karen has got to be given a chance to make it right! So many people want to get on here and talk  about taking the children away and such but Brandon and Karen need to get things fixed and heal together.  To any one who has children always always keep their spirit in mind !   

Why would I? I'll leave it up to Dr. Phil to feel for her.
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 4:45 pm PDT

I don't think..

Quote From: jstia37

First, I think that while the "mother" was upset to watch the footage - I got the feeling she was more embarrassed than horrified.  There were something in her tears that said (to me anyway), "Oh man, is my secret out.  Wonder what my friends will think?"  Then, throughout the conversation she had with the doc, I just got this feeling that she was seriously disconnected.  I mean SERIOUSLY.  She teared up here and there, but it wasn't until the doc started talking about her past that she got really emotional.  Regardless of her past...the fact is,  at the end of the day, she got off on kicking (literally) around some people that were considerably smaller than her.   

   

Second...on the subject of the "father".  There's just too much to say about this waste.  How nice of him to accompany the missus to this show so SHE could get some help.  If I'd sat down and watched my husband beating my kids like this...Dr Phil, Robin, his security guards, the LA SWAT team AND the National Guard all combined couldn't have kept me from ending him right then and right there for all of you to watch.  But I'm kind of into kids' rights and their safety.  Call me nutty.  Good to see he had the same reaction.  By the end of the show he was holding her hand and putting his arm around her.  Yeah waste...you're a real man!    

   

Glad to see that the show contacted the appropriate authorities, but I'm guessing even if they hadn't, CPS would have been at their door in no time...no matter where they live.  

   

   

   

   

   

   

I don't think that the mom was upset at all, she just was crying without much remorse. I'm sad to think that neighbors would hear that and not have called CPS by now. Do people in America just like to turn their heads the other way? So sad...
 
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princess27
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May 9, 2006, 4:47 pm PDT

she needs help...yet

Quote From: kvlatunski

This is what tdlyons said:  Look, this mother wants HELP!  Does no one get that?  She went on the show to GET HELP!  If she wanted to keep beating, swearing at and terrorizing her children, she would be at home wallowing in her rage.  She was brave enough to come on the show and let them put cameras in her home.  I am not excusing what she is doing AT ALL.  She has hurt those children and they are damaged, but she IS trying to change.  All you people that keep saying they should be in jail and their children taken away have no empathy and are reacting out of rage and anger yourselves!  What makes you any better????  This woman is damaged and hurt too.  I guess thats why Dr. Phil has the show and not you.  He KNOWS what he's doing and can see beyond the obvious.  Unlike some of you.
  

   

tdlyons, thank you, I totally agree.  I believe with professional help this family can be healthy.  I also  believe that this behavior happens more than we all know and thank goodness she and her family will be getting the help they all want, need, and deserve.  My positive, loving thoughts and prayers are with this family.     

she needs her children taken away from her at the same time. She's dangerous, and a horrible, horrible mother and a disgrace to society.
 
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