Messages By: roxy_belle

what a very painful situation to be in.  You say you have known for a year that your father is cheating - how did you find out then?  Why is it that you say you don't blame him for what he has been doing?  I inferred that maybe your parents' marriage isn't healthy or possibly that your mom isn't available for him sexually.  If either of those are reasons you think your dad is justified - well he just isn't.  There is simply NO justification for seeking intimacy outside the marriage.  Everyone has a responsibility to get out of the marriage before starting a new relationship.   

  

For advice on what to do - I believe someone else already advised that you should talk to your dad.  I hope that is something you would be able to do.  I can only imagine it would be a very awkward conversation.  First, because most of us are very uncomfortable thinking of our parents as sexual beings - and to actually discuss something like this with one of them, well I can only imagine how hard that would be.  I think it is your best course of action though.  Not really sure what else you can do about this.  Do you think your mom has any idea this is going on?  I know people say the wife always knows - but I don't believe that.  If you do think she does, do you believe she stays in denial because she doesn't want him to leave her?  If that is true, and you force the issue in some way, it is somewhat possible your mom might resent you for bringing it out in the open.  I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - just want you to consider possible repercussions.  Again, I hope you have a relationship with your dad where you will feel able to talk about this with him.  If so, don't let him justify his behavior and give that any validation.  He will probably look for it - but don't give it!   

  

Lastly, you spoke about having two children in a home filled with tension and pain.  I think the most important thing you can possibly do is remember that THEY are your first responsibility and priority.  Being in a home like that isn't good for them.  I'm not at all trying to be judgmental, or say you are a bad mom.  I believe it very much concerns you that they are absorbing bad vibes in that home.  So - please explore every other available housing option you have immediately.  If I was you, I would do that even before talking to your dad about your concerns.  Get your kids in a safe, nurturing environment and then do what you can to help your parents.   

  

I am so sorry for you that you are dealing with this.  I hope my words were helpful and know that I give them in that spirit.  Please though, take care of yourself and your babies first.  Roxy 

You intrigued me with just this post.  I went all the way back (like 48 pages lol) to find where you first shared your story.  I should say right now I am neither an OW or a wife who has been cheated on.  I read several of the boards here at Dr. Phil, and hope to find words and insights that will apply to me and help me.  I hope it is okay for me to post since I don't exactly belong here.  If not, y'all can let me know and I won't post again.  Anyway, saes - this post spurred me to read long and hard on this particular board.  I didn't read every post of those 48 pages (althought I plan to, when time allows and who knows when I will have time since I have 5 kiddos lol) - but I did read enough to gain alot of empathy for the OW, something I never expected to have.  Saes - you in particular I have seen advance and retreat in your 'recovery' over and over and that seems to be often the case with the OW.  I only say you in particular, because I read more of your posts than anyone else's.  I don't say that because her story is any more valid or important than any of the rest of y'alls - I know it isn't.  This post happened to be the first one I read here and I wanted to read more about her story and how she has learned to recover.  I was amazed continuously at how generous so many of you were in offering advice/support.  I could tell how long some of those posts took to compose and how much thought y'all put into them.  I also appreciated how y'all have dealt with the occasional cheated on wife who comes here looking for answers - that went beyond generous, especially that you tried to help even when some of them were insulting.  I am 95% sure my husband will never cheat, but if it ever does come to pass, know that reading this board will not make my initial reaction be to blame the OW and want to kick her a** Texas style.   

  

Saes - if you don't mind me coming back to you for a minute.  I read many of your posts about your situation as well as how you responded to others and tried to help them.  You have intelligence, empathy, clarity, insight, generosity of spirit - all of which I suppose adds up to wisdom.  IMO, your advice to others has been superlative.  Can I tell you though - and hopefully not anger or hurt you - you don't always seem to take your own advice.  I only say that as a totally objective reader - because I really don't have any investment in being an OW or cheated on wife.  Again objectively - P clearly values the monetary security his wife provides over having a fulfilling relationship with you.  His dang loss.  IMO money never replaces true love.  It IS a damn shame you gave him 35 years of your life, more or less.  He is NEVER going to give you the recognition you desire or the renumeration (I think I have misspelled that lol).  I believe I read on one post you are 60-ish - you have so many years left to live, please don't waste them.  Although I should say, and meant to up there, that the 35 years you loved him weren't necessarily wasted.  You did have love and got love, even thought it wasn't as complete as you wished.  So - what I mean to say now is - 60 is the new 45.  Get out there and find a new passion.  Passion doesn't have to mean being involved with a man, it can be many other creative or charitable outlets.  I wish the best for you saes. 

  

I'll say again I am sorry for butting into this board when I don't really belong here and reiterate that if anyone doesn't like my presence, I won't post again.  I'll end by saying I have so much empathy for the pain selfish men have caused those of you who are OW and also to their wives.  I hope this board and Dr. Phil's books and any other resources you avail yourselves of prove helpful.  Take care and be safe.  Roxy 

I also hope you will continue to visit here.  I will find time to respond to your posts (maybe not the same day, some days with 5 kiddos I don't get any online time) and be as helpful as I can be - if not helpful, at least supportive.   

  

I noticed yesterday that you said you are staying with your husband, even with his anger, simply because you love him.  Ya know what?  My overwhelming love for my husband was the only thing that kept me with him after I found out about his porn use, so I know what you mean there.  My anger was huge, but the love was more.  Like I told you before though, I know I wouldn't have stayed if he hadn't been remorseful for hurting me and then become an 'open book', so I could be reassured daily that he wasn't using porn anymore.  I don't think I asked this before - have you and your husband ever been able to discuss porn calmly and rationally?  Not like immediately after you found some and threw it out and he went ballistic, but just on a normal day.  If you haven't, consider doing it.  Maybe if he didn't have anger in the way, he would be able to really hear the pain you are in and how he can help alleviate some of it.  If he won't hear you and agree to get porn out of your marriage for good, then I think you should just work on yourself.  As you go through that process, you may decide that just love isn't enough, that you also need respect and empathy.  I hope you will, because you deserve both.  Take care and again, please do continue to post here.  Roxy 

I was wondering if you could either re-post something or tell me where to go to find it and I will.  It was something written by Dr. Phil that talked about forgiveness.  I found it tremendously helpful and was thinking it might be the same for some of our other new posters.  The line that was most me - was thinking that if I forgave my husband that meant he 'got away with it'.  I thought I was the only person who felt that way and I was glad to know I wasn't and how I could change that thinking and realize forgiveness was a gift I could give to both of us.  Thx Luv, Roxy

Yes - what you posted is exactly what I was referring to.  Maybe something there (or as you mentioned in Dr. Phil's advice section) will be helpful to the newcomers to this board.  I so agree with all you say about forgiveness.  Now I do anyway.  Before I read those words of advice, I didn't think I ever could forgive.  I'm so grateful that I did forgive, truthfully and with all my heart, because now I feel our marriage is on its way to being better than ever.  Thx again Luv.  :)  Roxy

I just wanted to repost the above Dr. Phil advice, so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle today.  I hope some of you who are new to the board and haven't seen this yet, will be as helped by it as I was.  Thx again to Luv for refinding it for me. 

I posted here a few days ago, and told y'all I am not an OW or a wife who has been cheated on, and was welcomed and told it wouldn't make anyone uncomfortable if I continuted to post here.  Thank you for that.  I am not sure why this board has me fascinated, possibly because what I found here was not at all what I expected.  I think I expected to see women who are predatory and discussing ways to get husbands to leave their wives arguing with wives who are cheated on.  While there are, of course, some wives who come here to vent - what I overwhelmingly found was a group of women who have been wronged and are trying to help each other heal.  How wonderful that it makes a fallacy of the old adage about how women only want to tear each other down.  

  

 I was even more struck to realize how often OW get into a situation and fall in love before they know the OM is married.  That, more than anything, gave me empathy for y'all that I never expected to feel.  I had it pretty set in my head that OW are predatory and, in short, just horrible people.  It's always a good thing to have a preconceived notion turned on its head.  As I said in my initial post, I am almost 100% sure (never say never, I know) that my husband won't ever cheat on me - but I wouldn't rush right over and kick a** on the other woman.  All my a** kicking would be reserved for my husband.  There would be no 'pick her or me' ultimatum.  One thing I can say unequivocally to be true, is that I will NOT EVER countenance infidelity in our marriage.   He would have NO excuse imo, because even if we were having a bad time (and in 13 yrs those times have arisen) or I was the bi*** of the world, that still would not justify him searching for gratification or fulfillment from someone else.  I won't put up with a coward or "Little Prince Charming" lol - if he isn't man enough to tell me he thinks we need to get counseling or find a way to reconnect or have more or different sex (or whatever excuses men use in these situations) - then he is simply not man enough to be my mate for life.  My husband and I married VERY soon after meeting - 3 1/2 months - and I was 25 and he was 29.  We knew it was right for us.  I had 2 other relationships before that (thank goodness I was smart enough not to marry either), and before meeting him, had established inside myself what I wanted out of life and would/would not accept from a man.  He has lived up to my expectations almost completely.  I did find out several months ago he was looking at porn, but when I found out, he showed immediate remorse and anger only at himself for taking a chance of hurting me.  He became an absolute "open book" and was never angry when I would question him about things.  He never once blamed me in any way and in fact did all he could to reassure me I am the only one he wants for life.  I know this isn't as serious as actually being cheated on - I am not even trying to equate the two, but we had a similar process to go through.  If he had blamed me, or not been remorseful or told me he needed time to figure out if he needed me or porn more - he would have been gone.  I am surprised by how many wives will let the husband decide if he wants them or the OW and also let him blame them for their indiscretions, or even worse - buy into his story that the OW lured him into it and he was a victim of their feminine wiles.  I guess some people just believe what they must in order to maintain the status quo.  I will never understand that mind-set.   

  

I don't know if it is seeming like it - but most of what I am saying up there is in response to some of the posts I saw today.  Not in any way a judgment against any of you personally or your decisions.  We all come from very different backgrounds and with different life experiences, which of course color who we are and how we function in the world.  I just wish more women would say "HELL NO", when their husband says he has to figure out if he wants them or the OW more.  I know I would, even if he hadn't actually had physical intimacy.  In fact, emotional intimacy would probably be even more devastating to me personally.  Another reason I was able to work through my hurt and forgive my husband for porn usage, was that I was able to ascertain for sure that he had never had any kind of contact with any woman at all - no email, no IM, no chat, no phone calls.  I was thankful for that - because I just could not have stayed married to him if he had.   btw - I don't think I am better or stronger or smarter than women who choose to stay with a cheater, just different.   I won't let someone treat me badly, when my philosophy of life is to "do unto others", and it isn't just a philosophy to me, but a way of life.   

  

For the poor poster who has a 1 month old baby and another child also (btw - CONGRATS on the new arrival and also your other baby - I hope both are healthy and happy) - your story made me so sad.  You got relevant and good advice today.  I can't decide if I agree with it or not.  It would be good to get a new hairstyle and outfit and start working out - it is always good to take some concrete steps to make you feel better about your physical appearance - that is a proven confidence builder.  It is also good to get into counseling, even if it isn't joint with your husband, to work on you.  I'm just a little uncertain about presenting an ultimatum.  Part of me sees the sense of it - it is so true you don't want to make him leave you out there in limbo.  That, in fact, may be the very best advice for YOU specifically.  If you are a person like me though - I would tell him to hit the road, not ultimatum necessary.  If he is going to choose to do something like this, right when you are at your most vulnerable, is he really someone you think you can trust again?  I know it would be beyond hard to break up right now, and I also understand that many women do stay because of their children and also financial reasons.  All I can tell you is I have 5 children (14 to 6) and I am a stay at home mom.  If I was faced with a cheating husband, I would do whatever it took to make it on my own.  Mine would pay child support of course, but as he is military - it would never be enough for me to support the kids on.  I do have an advantage some don't, which is a college education and an 8 years work experience with computers before I quit the workforce, so I believe I could find something to make up the difference.  If I didn't though, I would have zero problem utilizing all the resources out there, like food stamps etc - while I needed it, to make sure my kids were provided for.  My pride could handle that alot easier than it could remaining married to someone who cheated on me, because of financial reasons or because I was simply afraid to be alone.  You can see I have thought all this out lol - I did so in the initial days of finding out he had been using porn, because I was so hurt and angered and my initial response was that it was very possible I was going to be single at 37 with 5 kids to support.  I decided I could do it if it became necessary.  Thankfully I found a board here at Dr. Phil that helped me find forgiveness and it didn't.   

  

I think I am scatterbrained tonight and probably rambling way too much.  Put it down to hosting a bday party today for our 6 yo son lol.  I'm trying to remember what I really wanted to accomplish with this post - I think first to thank y'all again for welcoming me.  I wanted to give empathy to the new mom whose hubby is considering leaving her.  I wanted to say how surprised I am at how many wives blame the OW totally and contribute to the OM leaving the OW in a devastating manner (I can't believe how many of y'all got the kiss-off with a cruel phone call).  Oh yeah - maybe to remind wives who are bitter and angry that the REAL culprit here is your spouse, not the woman he chose to cheat with.  It seems like most of the wives who post here know that.  I know I went off in tangents about my own life - sorry about that.  Maybe I am just having a 'sharing' kind of night lol.   

  

Again, thank you for the welcome to this board.  I am not sure I can ever really be helpful to any of you - since I have not walked in your shoes.  I will continue to share observations as an outsider as long as you allow me to.  The first time I 'step on someone's toes', rest assured I will make myself scarce.  I certainly don't want to contribute negatively to this board.  I hope all of you have a safe and happy weekend.  Take care.  :)  Roxy 

I just posted my message and saw the length of it - it is a magnum opus.  I'm sorry I am so dang long-winded tonight.  Please feel free to skim or skip, won't hurt my feelings at all.  :)  Roxy

you should not apologize for having a busy life.  I think most of us here do.  Being a SAHM to 5 kids, I personally am very busy.  I find time for this board as often as I can, and to read all posts, whether they are about daily doings or long posts that relate to the topic, because right now it is helpful to me.  I read it all because I never know when one sentence is going to be meaningful to me.  I write long dang posts often - and I won't apologize for that.  I don't expect anyone to read every word of them, or even expect anyone to skim them.  Please skip every post I write if you want to, won't offend me in the least!!  I write because, where I am right now, it helps me to get my thoughts out in a safe forum like this board, where I know I am generally going to be supported, and also receive advice that will help. 

  

My real life is bigger and much more important than any online life I have, again I think that is true for pretty much everyone here.  I don't come here every day either and noone asked or expected you to bif.  I have yet to see a "Where Oh Where is Roxy or Bif" post on this board.  We should all come here when our real lives allow the time - whether it is to be helpful or to ask for help or simply to read and hope something clicks.  I do all 3.  You do one.  Different, but we both have our reasons to be here and contributions to make.  I have, like you, been fortunate enough to receive and give help.  Well, I won't say I am able to help anyone yet, since I am new to forgiveness, but I am at least able to give support to new posters - my empathy and understanding.   

  

I kinda want to be real frank here, but not sure if this will be deleted if I am.  Bif - you were one of the first people who answered me, and also the most harsh.  Maybe that is just your personality, mine is one of empathy.  I want to wake people up to reality, but I don't ever wish to smack them in the head with it.  I want them to know I feel their pain and don't make any judgments about how they deal with their situation.  I try to be more gentle in getting them to recognize what direction may (or may not) be best for them, as I know what is right for me isn't necessarily right for anyone else.  It is my opinion that you tend to come across as superior.  I am not in the least threatened by that, my life is too fulfilling to be threatened by anyone who has made different choices.  You have made a point to let us all know that YOUR life is too busy to read alot.  YOUR marriage is so perfect that hubby approached you before he used porn.  I am still curious about why you felt the need to let us all know that.  Why do you think that was?   

  

I have no, zero, nada interest in getting involved in a conflict with you here bif.  I won't talk about this issue again, because it so takes away from what both of us want to do - which is help people who are struggling with porn issues.  I want to do that and hope to learn even more in the process.  I really am happy for you and your husband that porn never became a huge issue in your marriage.   I also appreciate how your style of advice works for some people - I have seen you give them just the wake up call they needed.  When I respond to someone, I will always approach it differently.  Then there are other regs here who have their own methods, which differ from both of us.  The most important thing on this board is for all of us to respond to the new posters and hope one of us says something that helps him/her.  So, post when you can - and I will too.  You will be short and succinct and I will be long-winded and empathetic - whatever works right?   

  

btw - I never painted you as a black-sheep or jumped on a bandwagon (from a different post) .  I had a night where I got involved in a conversation I shouldn't have and I sincerely apologized for doing so, to both you and Luv.  I find this particular post different though, because it feels like you are directing it not just to the person you are talking to, but others of us.  I won't apologize this time, because I feel justified in what I said.  I will promise to never again muck up these boards with this kind of thing.  I am here to help and be helped, not to have drama.  My teen daughters provide more than enough drama in my life!!   Best wishes to you bif in your busy and fulfilling life - I hope you will continue to post here and give your advice when you have time.  Take care all and Happy Friday!!!  :)  Roxy 

and yes I used to be in exactly the situation you wrote about.  Briefly, hubby and I have been married almost 13 yrs and I found out last Sept he had been using various forms of porn off and on throughout the marriage.  He hid it very well.  It had been almost 6 years since I had any reason to suspect he was doing anything like that.  I was devastated and we went through months of misery because of my hurt and anger.  I found answers, support and great advice on this board.  I hope you will also.  With this resource, I was able to forgive my husband and we are both moving forward and our marriage is closer than ever.   

So, again, welcome to the board and please let us know however much more about your situation you are comfortable sharing.  I won't ask a bunch of questions - you should let us know as much or as little of your story as you wish, and I know everyone here will do their best to help.  Take care and rest assured you are SO NOT alone in this.  Roxy