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Messages By: bearcourage
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September 12, 2006, 4:55 pm PDT
 Quote From: marzig I AM LOOKING FOR SOME ADVICE I AM 30 AND HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 12 YEARS..WE HAVE A SOON TO BE 11 YR OF DAUGHTER..MY PROBLEM IS I HAD A AFFAIR AND ALTHOUGH MY HUSBAND AND I STAYED TOGETHER ARE MARRIAGE IS HELL..AT LEAST ON MY PART..HE HAS BECOME VERY CONTROLLING I AM NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE FRIENDS OR GO OUT HE SNOOPS THROUGH ALL MY STUFF CHECKS MY PHONE HE QUESTIONS ME ABOUT EVERYTHING..I AM NOT ALLOWED TO GET A JOB BUT SOMEHOW HAVE TO PAY MY PART OF THE BILLS I SELL STUFF ON THE NET WHICH BRINGS IN SOME MONEY BUT NOT WITH OUT A STRUGGLE..MY PROBLEM IS I FEEL LIKE A PRISONER AND AM VERY UNHAPPY THAT THIS WILL BE THE REST OF MY LIFE I WANT TO GET A DIVORCE BUT AM SCARED TO TELL HIM..I HAVE NEVER BEEN ON MY OWN AND AM NOT SURE I COULD MAKE IT ON MY OWN..MY HUSNAD HAS ALWAYS TAKEN CARE OF EVERYTHING...I DONT HAVE ANY FAMILY THAT IS CLOSE BY SO I WOULD REALLY BE ON MY OWN..I DID LEAVE HIM AFTER THE AFFAIR FOR 3 MONTHS I MOVED IN WITH MY DAD WHO IS 2 HRS FROM US..THE WHOLE TIME I WAS THERE MY HUSBAND KEPT ME ON THE PHONE ALL DAY AND HAD ME DRIVING BACK AND FORTH EVERY OTHER DAY TO SEE HIM..HE NEVER LET ME HAVE A MIN TO THINK ABOUT THINGS IN THE END HE TALKED ME INTO MOVING BACK AND SINCE THEN I HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO HAVE MUCH OF A LIFE..I KNOW I HURT HIM AND LOST HIS TRUST WITH THE AFFAIR AND FEEL TERRIBLE EVERYDAY ABOUT IT..THAT IS WHERE MY PROBLEM COMES IN...SHOULD I STAY AND TAKE WHAT I AM DEALT BECAUSE I DESERVE IT?? OR SHOULD I GET OUT AND MAKE A BETTER LIFE FOR MYSELF AND OUR DAUGHTER?? I have been in your husband's shoes not once but multiple times. I too check phone bills and emails and thing of that nature. I never went to the extremes your husband has and to be honest I was miserable doing all that. I finally came to the realization that whatever happens happens. From your post, I sense that you were not happy in the marriage prior to the affair. I realize people have affairs for a multitude of reasons but there are times when a marriage can actually grow from one spouce or the other having an affair. I don't know the circumstances but I don't agree with you staying just so you can "recieve your punishment". I believe there are two sides to every story and I think that is definately the case here. My concern also lies with your daughter. She is at a very vulnerable age and I wonder how she is interpreting not only your actions for the tentions in the home. Is she viewing you as recieving your punishment, so to speak or is she viewing from you that it is alright to allow another person to dominate her life to the point of no longer being an individual. Your daughter is old enough to have some input and to talk to her about this because as bad an impact as the situation is having on you I can guarantee you the impact is multiplied with her. Keep in mind, this is merely me on the outside looking in with a very limited view. Whatever your decision, I wish you will. |
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January 19, 2008, 5:38 pm PST
Quote From: ozzwood I'm interested how Dr. Phil will portray swingers. Will those millions of people who swing successfully be portrayed in a good light, or are we all to be painted as ruining our family dynamics and ruining our marriages? Reading the synopsis of the show, it sounds like Nita and Walter had problems in their marriage to begin with. These are the drama couples we stay far away from. Any successful swinger single or couple would advise them to fix their marriage before swinging. With Brent and his selfish wants of a threesome, if your spouse refuses to swing, that's it. No means no. There is no room for compromise when one spouse refuses. If he threatens to leave, help him pack his bags. Swinging isn't about being selfish, it's about being selfless. We both want the other to have the experiences of a lifetime. Swinging isn't for everyone, and that's OK. Not everyone is cut out for skydiving, either. Most people can't wrap their heads around the why's or what for's of swinging. You don't have to understand. We do ask you however, to be respectfully tolerant of our lifestyle that we've chosen. I've heard us compared to pedophiles, rapists and murderers. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Swinging is not a crime and if it was, it is a victimless one. Nobody gets hurt. It's consensual, safe and sane. I appreciate that everyone has an opinion but sometimes I think alot of the critism that people have for people who choose to swing is lack of understanding. And lack of understanding is the number one factor in any discrimatory action. With that being said, my husband and I have been in the lifestyle for several years. It has enriched our marriage as opposed to distroying it. I do think it is wrong for anyone to go into this to please their partner or there will be horrible results! This lifestyle, for us atleast, is about sharing our deepest innermost fantasies and experiencing them together. I'm curious about something for those that are so quick to be critical, have you ever has a sexual fantasy that you would not tell either your spouse or partner? My guess is, YES! If your marriage or relationship is better than ours, then why wouldn't you share that with them? That's not to say that this is for everyone because it is not! But for my husband and I, there is absolutely nothing we would not tell eachother, in regard to sex or anything else. There maybe things that I fantasize about but he doesn't share that fantasy or it isn't appealing to him and vice versa but we talk about it, honestly and openly. And we admit, there are somethings that are better left as a fantasy. Another question for those who want to be critical, do you also think it is so horrible for a married couple to watch porno or to engage in the use of sex toys? You see, not everyone has to agree with everyone else but no one has the right to say what consenting adults do. Both myself and my husband are bisexual (I'm sure I opened another can of worms with that one...lol). There is no way to explore that side of our sexuality in a "monogomous" relationship. As for risk of disease, well there is actually a smaller risk, much smaller, in this lifestyle than other choices. You see, we get tested every couple of months, as do our partners and we all have the paperwork to prove it. As for kids, our children are the most important parts of our lives hence the reason we rarely get a chance to go "play" as a couple. We have made the decision to be able to play seperately. Now tell me, how many people have that much trust in their relationship? If you don't, then you do not belong in this lifestyle. And no, we have no intention of one day sitting our kids down and saying, "Guess what mommy and daddy do!". That's insane. I'm sure at some point and time there will be questions and we will answer them honestly according to age appropriateness just like we would with anything else. We don't ask that you agree with our choices but please don't condemn us just as we would not your choices in your life.
Bearcourage |
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January 20, 2008, 6:47 am PST
Quote From: alpha12 As far as I am concerned, what y'all do in the bedroom is your business as long as it is between consenting adults.
As far as your comment regarding a decreased risk of illness, perhaps it would be better qualified were you to make a comparison, eg. visiting prostitutes, one night stands, multiple partners without protection. When compared to strict monagomy or avoidance of sex altogether there is an increased risk. Thank you for your response. And you have a very valid point in regard to the comparison. I was thinking, but failed to type, that there are very very few relationships or marriages that atleast one of the parties has not had an affair atleast once. I think all long term relationships and marriages tend to hit slumps and often times this goes unchecked until the disaster of an affair occurs. The are alot of occasions to where the innocent person in the relationship becomes sick as a result. I have worked in the medical field for a long time and have seen this happen time and time again. Most the time when people are having affairs they don't take the time to talk about STDs or birthcontrol, etc. and innocent people get hurt. With what we do, there is a great deal of honesty and a great deal of frankness. That translates into safety. I just don't understand why there is such a stigma attached to this other than society says it is taboo. I have actually had people tell me that having an affair is better than this and honestly, I totally disagree. Just my opinion. |
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January 20, 2008, 7:55 am PST
Quote From: jules1965 My husband and I have been swinging going on 5 years. My family is aware of it as are my grown adult children, even my MOTHER.
I think what shocked my mother (think old school'what would the neighbors think?) So I went to a popular swing site, typed in my zip code, put in a 50 mile radius and viola, up popped over 500 couples......there mom, that's what my neighbors think. She was aghast of course that so many people were swinging, not that my husband and I swing.
The thing about swinging is, there must be 110% agreement between the couple if they are wanting to try this. They must be 2000% committed to their MARRIAGE. They must set clear and unbreakable RULES for swinging, any violation of the rules and the swinging ends or the marriage will.
Protect yourself at all times, from pregnancy, disease, weirdos. Never go with strangers, always get to know the people first (phone, internet, safe place to meet for the 1st time)
Swinging has not harmed our marriage whatsoever. We've had 3 somes (MFM and FMF as well as couples MF/MF) If swinging has done anything to our marriage it has strengthened it, we have more trust for each other, our sex life..........well......just RULES!
We are open with each other, no secrets, no lying, the trust is amazing!! If both of us don't agree to a situation 110%.......we leave, simple as that.
Nobody can enter our marriage, they may enter our bed but not our marriage. We are a team and will remain until death do us part.
Swinging is absolutely NOT for everyone. No partner should feel threatened, forced, or guilted into doing anything they do not want to do!
The couple coming on the show where the wife doesnt want to do it but feels pressure from her husband and is scared he'll leave if she doesn't go along with him....... Face it, there are much deeper problems than just if his 'needs' or 'wants' aren't met or she doesnt do what HE wants to do.
Some people are not into swinging nor ever will be. It isn't right for everyone. (though the numbers are so high that fact has room for argument!)
One thing swinging has given us is a much deeper understanding of each other, has enhanced a very wonderful sex life too.
Mind you, this isn't an everyday thing or we spend time cruising, we're part timers......if we find a nice couple fine, if not, fine too. Its been a year since we swung but we move across country and have been busy....if the mood strikes we'll search for like minded adults and see where it goes......our lives are not consumed by swinging, only positively enhanced our marriage, IN and OUT of the bedroom.
I couldn't have said it better myself!!! That is a perfect explaination of what swinging is to me and my husband also! |
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January 20, 2008, 10:34 am PST
Quote From: jjpoplin I am a 22 year old married woman and I couldn't imagin being with any other man or allowing my husband to be with another woman. Once you get married you are supposed to forsake all others not sleep with all your friends or any one else. To me the romantic part of my marriage is private and that is something that I will not share with any one else because I love my husband and I took vows for better or worse. I just think that if you are truely happy in your marriage your spouse should be enough for you and if they are not then you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. If you are content with your marriage then you should not have to turn to others for sexual satisfication. I was always taught that even if you think about what it would be like to be another person, other than your spouse, than that is considered cheating. I just strongly feel that if you are married than you don't need porn, or other people to satisfy your sexual needs. I am curious as to how long you have been married. I do not mean that critical, just curious. It sounds as though you have very strong beliefs in your moral system and I have a great deal of respect for anyone that does and sticks by them. I am a little perplexed about you statement about you regard thinking about being with another person other than your spouce is cheating. The human mind often flashes things and thoughts that are not consciously controlled by a person. To me, fantasies are part of what make you human. Do you ever think about or wish for a better job or more money or a different house just out of the blue? That is really no different than thinking about sex, even if it is thinking about sex with someone other than your spouce, when it is a spontaneous thought. I often wonder why it is so taboo in our society for women, especially, to be sexual creatures. Many of my friends (female) and I have talked about sex....often times not even about swinging....and they are ashamed and embarrassed to be sexual. To me that is sad that a person cannot be comfortable enough to express themselves especially with their spouce! I think alot of people confuse sex and love. The people that my husband and I engage in sex with are our friends and we care about them as such but there is no way to compare that to the love that he and I share. Sex is something that is physical, it is a physical release and a part of enjoyment in life. They way alot of people are entertwining the two makes me wonder, would you love you husband less if suddenly he was unable to achieve an erection? Ofcourse not, or I would hope not and that is because you love and marriage is not based just on the sex life that the two of you have, because I hope there is so much more to your relationship. I know that would be the case with myself. |
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January 20, 2008, 12:46 pm PST
Quote From: zimexlady People who swing have ultra low self esteem and turn to activities that lower that esteem even more. Quite the contrary because you would not survive long in this lifestyle with a low self esteem! My self esteem is very high and I have never felt more secure within myself in my life! |
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January 20, 2008, 4:02 pm PST
Quote From: ozzwood We have lost sight of why we even get married any longer. We marry because we love the person and want to share our life with them. You take a vow before God and your spouse to stay together until death do you part. We did get married because we loved one another. Through the years, that love has grown so deeply that a person who doesn't experience it wouldn't understand it. I will share the rest of my life with him. We did vow before God and my spouse to stay with them till death do us part. That part will never change. Ever. If you are bored in bed and sex can get boring after a few years, go to a counselor, get some new Ideas, buy a book for Gods sake. You don't invite other people into your bed. It is plan an simple cheating and cheating is lying. Couples who swing and invite a third party into their bed are asking for divorce down the road. What is the difference between swinging and going out and having an affair. This is where people get lost... We were never bored with our sex life. I don't think we've ever been bored with our sex life and we've been married a quarter of a century. It's not cheating. This is another part where people get a little lost. Cheating is a lie, but cheating is where you're sneaking behind the back of your spouse without their knowledge and having sex without their knowledge. The difference between swinging and going out and having an affair is that we both go as a couple. He knows everything I do and I know everything he does. This has brought a whole new realm of communication to our relationship. I know that there are a plethora of you out there that can't understand this. You don't want to understand. Your agenda is to bash those of us who live differently than you. We used to live like you... Glad we don't anymore. I am having a real hard time understanding why people are thinking that this has anything to do with kids. For those who choose a "normal" marriage and think that, I pose a question, do you tell your children everything you do in the bedroom? Do you give them intimate details of your sex life? Do you tell them that you preform oral sex on eachother or mommy prefers anal sex to vaginal? Get real people, neither do we! I don't know where Dr. Phil found this couple that the husband drug his teenage son into the middle of this but that is not the norm. And it is flat out sick! It sounds like this show is more about a dysfunctional family as opposed to true swinging and the lifestyle! No we are not pediphiles, no we do not practice beastiality, and no we are not some side show carnival freaks! We don't wear shirts that advertise for our next conquest. Some of you people that this this way really should go on a swinging website like swappernet and type in your own zip code. You might be surprised who you see on there! |
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January 20, 2008, 4:14 pm PST
Quote From: fromthesquare Some one once asked Billy Graham about "sinful thoughts." His answer was that it is "okay to have a bird fly over your head but you don't have to let it make a nest in your hair." We have a thought- that doesn't mean we act on it. That is what keeps reasonable people from killing someone out of anger. Or sleeping with them out of lust.
PS I have been married 18 years, I am 46 years old and I agree with the young 22 year old wife. She is more mature than most 22 year olds I have ever met. Your rhetoric in response is just that. That is basically what I was trying to say. And if you will reread my post you will see that I stated I do admire and respect anyone that holds beliefs and sticks to them even if I do not share the same beliefs. I was not critisizing her in any way. I understand that alot of people do not agree with the lifestyle due to religious beliefs and that is fine. To be honest, if the whole world had the exact same belief system then it would be a very boring place and there would not be so many religions. We as humans should be secure enough within ourselves as well of our beliefs that we can speak with someone who believes differently without anger. Anger comes from fear and fear comes from one questioning themselves, often times. This holds true when it comes to many subjects, not just this one. I have a very good friend that is in no way related to this lifestyle. She holds very strong religious beliefs and never wavers on them. But at the same time, she can sit and speak with someone that doesn't share her beliefs and give them the opportunity to speak and them carry on an intelligent conversation without anger or dismissing the other person because they do not believe as she does. Is the other person able to change her belief system? No because she is secure in what she believes. Maybe some of the people that are so critical so take a look within themselves and ask why this subject brings such a strong angry reaction? You don't have to agree with someone but disrespecting them for stating their views makes it look as though you question you own self. |
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January 21, 2008, 8:37 pm PST
Quote From: shadycat1 I'm going to play Devils Advocate here, but I think what people are saying (could be wrong ), is there does come a time when the kids will FIND OUT, then how do you explain it, not the intimate details. I agree with you,a kid should NEVER be DRAGGED into these conversations, agreed this is more about dysfunction then the swingers lifestyle I think. Many of the people here would probably be SHOCKED right out of the pulpit if they KNEW just who was doing it, its not like people go around pushing it on others (though some will, but that can be said about any group of people who are convinced they are right), most times you wouldn't KNOW, and you know what, NO ONE has the RIGHT to poke their noses into the nation's bedrooms. As far as being pedophiles or being into beastiality etc. anyone who says that, probably thinks the same about any group (homosexuals would be an example) that dosen't share their sense of "Morality" or "Normalcy", as for being "Freaks", Swingers are our Teachers, Doctors, lawyers, Houswives and dare I say Ministers, they don't have it tattooed to their foreheads, and from what I've seen, they seek out like minded couples. It's NOT for me, but that dosent give me the RIGHT to condemn someone for it, but I DO THINK that BOTH partners have to be "ON BOARD" with the idea, if not the marriage will not survive, we aren't talking about leaving the toilet seat up, this is a lifestyle that should NEVER be FORCED onto someone, and if it's something you are uncomfortable with or it disgusts you, then you should not allow yourself to be coerced or THREATENED into it
It is so nice to see someone of your frame of mind to post on this subject. I agree pretty much with everything you said. And you are right, there are people from all walks of life that swing, including ministers and preachers. I'm not saying that to inflame anyone, just merely a fact. In regard to the children, I understand what you are saying. My husband and I have discussed that many times and to be honest we don't have an answer for that right now. I hope that we have a while to come up with an answer since the kids are ages 5 and 7 but you never can tell....lol. A couple of months ago my then 4 year old ask me to tell her EXACTLY how babies were made and I did, honestly in an age appropriate matter. I figure we will do the same if and when they know that we do this. Like alot of this we do as parents, gonna have to play that one by ear...lol |
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January 22, 2008, 6:15 am PST
Quote From: vabtrfly It just so happens that my best friend is engaged to a man who indulged in the swinging lifestyle with his last wife. They were married 22+ years and were swingers for the last 5 years of that marriage. What brought an end to that marriage? Swinging. What began as a consensual agreement between married partners ended up a nightmare. Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it. These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst. My friends fiance opted out of the lifestyle and his x-wife chose to continue with many extra marital affairs to satisfy her addiction. The marriage ended because of this. If you asked him today, he would tell you how much he regrets his choice to swing. The definition of fantasy is described as such...
1 obsolete : HALLUCINATION
There is nothing wrong with "fantasy" and being able to share fantasies with your spouse IS healthy. However, "acting" upon it no longer qualifies it as a fantasy. I know many "non' swinging couples who are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another, and they have very meaningful and close relationships with each other. That has nothing to do with sharing one's body with strangers. It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together, and wouldn't have the need or desire to masturbate using an outsiders body. And no, this isn't from a religious stand point. It's from a purely clinical one.
As far as the children.... all of the swingers who have children and have voiced their opinions here say the same thing, "we don't discuss our sex lives with them, they have no idea of our personal life preference", etc. Children are extremely aware of what goes on inside their homes. Don't lull yourselves in to a false sense of security by thinking they could never find out. They are like little sponges soaking up everything. Children can navigate the internet better than most adults. Are you sure they don't snoop (as most kids do) through your browsing history??? Your private email??? Private pictures??? And if your children don't.... your neighbors children or your friends children most likely do. The very arguement that "non" swingers would be surprised at how many actual swingers are close by, if they simply accessed a swingers site and typed in their zip code, proves my point. Besides, just because so many are doing it, doesn't make it acceptable. And if it is so harmless and just 'sexy" fun, why do the vast majority of swingers hide what they do... from friends, co-workers, family, and yes... even their own children??? If you believe in what you do, if you believe that it's just sexy harmless fun, then you should be able to stand by your choices without fearing what other's may think.
Just my opinions and observations. I think what a lot of people are not understanding is that it isn't that our partner isn't man enough or woman enough for us. The greatest joy from swinging is seeing my husband pleased by another person. There are alot of people out there that want to try sex with someone of another race but would not marry someone of another race for whatever reason. Plus, for those of us that are bi-sexual, there are some things sexually that a man just can not give to me. I do agree that there are people in the lifestyle that become obsessive about it to the point it controls their lives. Often times you will see them take a break and get their feet back on level ground. That usually happens to "newbies". You also have a valid point about children. I don't have blinders on in regard to that. We are very cautious about what our children see on TV and do on the computer. They have a computer they use and we never pull up anything adult related on that computer. Plus, their computer is in our "office" were we can sit with them and monitor what they are on. I am not ashamed in any way about anything I do or that my husband and I do. I have family, including my mother, friends and former co-workers (I am a stay at home mother) that know about what my husband and I do. None of these people are in the lifestyle nor have we tried to recruit them, nor would we. People don't advertise for everyone to know because of blatant criticizm that they recieve. And, too, it is private. It would be no different than asking people who don't swing if they tell everyone they meet about the details of their sex life. |
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