Messages By: kschmittz

Hello there, my name is Kira.  Thanks for the heads up.   I think you hit the nail on the head...staying home because you WANT to vs. you think you SHOULD.  Truthfully, I think most do it because deep down they feel they should and then, yes, like you said feel stuck when it gets overwhelming. Then they expect the rest of society to pitch in and help out.  To me, that's a victim mentality and I just don't operate that way.  How many times have I heard about the SAHM that should get paid?  

 I also think that so many are not totally honest what it can be like.  If you get frustrated, burned out or need a break somehow you don't love your kids.  That's the impression a lot give.   Also, that no matter what you do/don't do it's always better if you are home.  I can't buy that.  If a child/children are in a situation where they are like a "job" to the at home parent how is that beneficial?  I've heard the analogy a lot- it's my JOB- and that bugs me.  Jobs can be boring and some days you don't want to go.  You can quit jobs- how do you quit your kids?   I don't regret my decision AT ALL because for me I really had to work to provide basics.  I don't think there's really anything glorious about raising kids in poverty.    All in all, I do agree that some are not equipped to do things in the house but buy into the Fantasy of Staying Home.  I just hope more that are at home really tell what it's like and not put out an unrealistic ideal that cannot be met.  I have a good friend who just had a baby (her first at 36) and she's terrified because of the idea that she's supposed to be this way or that.  I'm glad I can help her realize (from my own experience) that she will find her groove and be OK even if she doesn't fit in the mold society thinks she should.    

Well, seems I sparked another debate.  Just to clear up some things, yes, I have heard it suggested that women who have children and stay home should be PAID in dollars to have made that decision.  Now, that said, I do believe there is VALUE in staying home but again I think there are at-home Moms not doing the job.  There seems to be one extreme or the other- the burned out Mom who does nothing and the other who does too much and is obnoxious and over-bearing.  I have seen VERY FEW who seem to have the balance.  Next, I also think things change when kids come along and this is where the honesty part comes in.  A lot have the Fantasy of Staying Home but when it happens maybe they realize it's not for them.  Then what?  Stay in a situation that you hate because you said you wanted it so "deal with it"?  I think life/marriage brings with it astronomical changes and so many fall in love with an "idea" and then look for ways to fit that "idea" into some mold to make it work.  I think more need to look at different things.  I can't really say whether or not I "saw myself" as a SAHM or WM- I just knew I wanted kids and knew what I wanted to share with them.   I never "saw myself" marrying this type of man or that but I knew I wanted to be married and who would be right for me.   I don't think I was wired to stay home- I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much as I think it should be.  Therefore, I did not marry a man who would "expect" this of me.  I think this also works in reverse- a woman wants to stay home, marries a man who can provide,  then...she has three kids under 5 and can't do what "he" expects and the rest is history.  Instead, if a couple marries  with the notion of "life changes and we will stick together through the changes" then it's a different mentality that can be very beneficial for all.  I just think, at times, so many stay home and the situation creates so much stress in so many ways- financial and emotional- that I cannot see how that is good for the kids.  Kids sense stress and know when there is "not enough" .   Yes, there is stress also in dual income houses.However, the issues of  value and so forth  being discussed on these boards that so many at home Moms face do not seem to be as prevalent.   

 Most of the men ( his line of work is pretty male dominated although there are some women) in my husband's company have wives who stay home...especially those with children. 

I know how this is but again...point of view is everything.  My hubby's company most of the women stay home, too, with the exception of me.  He has even endured comments re: this due to he drops off/picks up the kids due to my hours.  The men at his company do not talk so well of their wives either.  A lot are divorced, too.  I am a little confused by your situation and your postings.  You seem to have the underlying attitude that women should be home but then in the same breath the hubby should be happy just to have her do whatever.  I have to take Amy's side on this.  If you are home, and that's the agreement in your marriage, then yes, I think hubby should have SOME say (not to the point Ken/Grant  are doing) about how things are done.  You are basically determing what/how much money he has to make to support your choice , then he should be able to say what he needs to feel validated and supported. I do think this works both ways, too.  I have worked Sundays for the past 5 years and hubby has certain things I like done when I get home.   Also, even though it sounds like financially you are doing well, for me, I'd rather have my hubby home.  Again, point of view and choices are different for everyone.  Also, things change as time goes on and a good marriage is one that two can sit down and discuss when this or that is or isn't working - for both of them.   

Maybe because we started out dirt poor we don't have some weird grabby selfish attitude with money that some couples have..  

Why is this ALWAYS the argument for the two income family?  I would like you both to describe to me exactly what is a "selfish, grabby, attitude" since both of you seem to always allude to the fact that people who use daycare have this money hungry attitude.  We have a mortgage (equal to most rents in the area or less), no car payments, no credit card debt, and we eat out on average about 4 times a month.  Yes, we do have the perceived luxuries of :  medical, dental and vision insurance which MY job provides (BTW- both my boys and myself need glasses), life insurance (my job), Christmas money put aside from each check and money for savings (my job), and of course, Internet access (which I assume you BOTH have, right?).  We also started out "dirt poor" and still are not anyhwere near well off yet my kids happen to need things that cost money.  Food, clothes, medicine, a house in a fantastic neighborhood, good schools, etc.  Also, just for the record Jetta, my kids ALSO are developing great , how God intended them to be and I used daycare.  I just find it really small minded  that if I'm not there every minute of every day that my kids were "raised by strangers" or I'm a "Mommy on weekends and evenings".  I can claim all you do about my kids and probably more but I don't see the need for that.  I know I'm a good Mom, too, and I've done the right thing.  Isn't it possible there is more than one way to raise good kids?  I also don't buy that either of you NEVER put your kids in the care of someone else.  You both have mentioned date nights, church groups, friends at the malls and grandparents fairly close by.  I just wonder how it is you both are so involved in every second, every breath of your children's lives and the BOTH of you have time to post the number of times you do.  I've looked- both of you are on other boards with multiple postings..how do you find the time?  I understand Jetta you have had hurtful comments about your kids "social" aspects and they NEED daycare to have those...I'm not one of those people.  Yes, daycare  helps and  generally provides an environment far more stimulating as there are more kids then just brother/sister/Mommy for them to associate with. And, generally, it can help in the preparation for school (if you choose that route).   I'm sure you are doing a great job in the "social" areas but be sure in the process of "tooting your horn" you don't diminsh  someone else's choices.  I, too, do a lot for my neighbors as well as my husband.  I don't see the need for listing all that we do (as so many do), I know it to be true and that we are respected for it.    

for seeing how some of the things mentioned and alluded to can be and are offensive to WM's.  I respect you and all your posts.  You seem to have a really good balance but also some struggles as well.   You do mention quite a bit about what you gave up and all that to be home so maybe you are still struggling- who knows.  Certainly not me since I've never been home. I am also sorry if you are offended by my opinion of "being grateful."  I will try to explain.   I just wonder....if he came to you and said "Honey, I'm tired of the hours/trips/etc and I found something else but the pay is much lower and you'd have to go to work...I'll help out around the house and be home more...."  what would you say?    Yes, I do think majority of the time it is the WOMAN who wants to stay home and the husband who has to FINANCIALLY bare that burden. A lot of men (and women, too) like the idea of Staying Home and all that but as time goes on things can change.  What if YOU decided to go back to work because you were "losing it" being home?  What would he say?  This is my MAIN issue right here.  It's about BOTH making a decision for the good of the family.  I think both men and women get wrapped up in their agendas and forget there is someone else who may be struggling, too, in some way with their original decision. On both ends I think that either the man can be afraid to ask the woman to go to work just as the woman might be afraid to say she wants to.  Societal stigmas play a huge part in that.  That's what I'm getting at- making a decision based on what's right for your personal situation not because you feel you "should" or an obligation to some ideal that may or may not exist.   I can't say if my husband's job took him away for periods that I wouldn't have chosen to be home either.   I'd hate to think that a decision I made 13 years ago at the beginning of our marriage before kids HAS to be adhered to now after so much has changed.  That's just crazy to me!  Likewise, I really try hard never to say never because life is  unpredictable but I can say this...I feel very good about my decision to help provide financially for my children.  I have no more regrets than any other parent.  Also, by me working my hubby had time with the kids, too, out of sheer necessity and for us that's been great.  He got up at night along with me, he did doctor trips along with me and he changed diapers along with me, too.   I help with the bills and he helps out with the house and kids.  I can see the "grateful" attitude thing in my situation because a lot of women act like "I'm so lucky my hubby does this or that and theirs doesn't"  yet they quickly are quiet when I say I've worked from the beginning!  It's all about choices we make based on our situations and what's available to us at the time.  Thanks for the support....it is noticed.  Sorry for the offending posts...not my intention to someone who does respect my position.   

First off, I am so sorry you cannot seem to get over "my opinions" based on things you have said, alluded to and referred to .  I feel YOU are the one who made snap judgments (more than one even after your BAD event) before even knowing who was on the message boards.  You seem to have some stereotype of WM's that we are a different breed than a SAHM.  Some of us are and some of are not that different.   It's great you can stay home AND financially provide solely on your husband's income. Not all families can do that.  I don't think that because you stay home you are lazy or avoiding a "real" job as I do believe pareting is a "real" job.   But don't you are think I'm materialistic and selfish because I work and use daycare.  What if (and I just posted the same type of question to Julie, too) your husband's salary wasn't enough and you had to work just to provide what you now have?  Most women who are at home are EXTREMELY grateful they can do so and try in many ways to show that to their husbands.  Amy has this same line of thinking only to an extreme- in my opinion.  I do believe, however, there are realistic goals when you are at home whether you have one or ten children.  I just hear a lot of excuses from SAHM's regarding the house, dinner, what hubby doesn't do blah blah blah.  I think some men are unrealistic but I think some women take staying home for granted.  NOT YOU but some I have seen.   

I have tried to post this before and it doesn't come through.  Anyhow, your mindset is what really bothers me.  I wil clarify.  You feel, whether you exactly say it or not, that women who use daycare really don't need to- that we are in essence living a lifestyle that we put above our kids.  You mentioned all that you give up to be home...well, guess what I know several two income families who don't have those things either.  I have explained in detail my life and finances- in no way are we living the "high" life but yes, my kids have things I feel are important.  We are also wise savers and spenders as we have no credit card debt and no car payments.  We also have life insurance but if I didn't work that would be a "luxury" we couldn't afford.  Personally, the things you claim you give up really don't sound all that serious- especially if you are out shopping for picture frames and have enough savings to live on if need be.   To me, it sounds like you create your own unhappiness.  Let me explain.  You don't have a driver's license?  WHY?   What if you had to take your daughter to ER?  Also, you moved into an area with totally opposite beliefs than yours...why?  Maybe, if you worked, you and hubby could have moved/stayed where you have something in common with your neighbors.  Now, you are isolated to a point and don't sound happy about it.  I am NOT bitter.  I'm not sure where you get that.  I just get tired of hearing "I'm a Mommy on weekends/evenings" and "I'm not the same level of parent as a SAHM" and I don't sacrifice enough to be home with my kids.  If I hadn't worked all this time, we'd be in a  lesser neighborhood with a lot more crime and bad schools.  My hubby grew up like that and there is no benefit in that.  I agree, some can live a good life and stay home in other parts of the country,  Julie, for example, has a charmed life.  Good for her...except for me I'd rather have my husband home.  I don't think in any way shape or form my kids have missed out on Mommy being home.   I have missed things (not their milestones but others) but that's loss for me NOT THEM!  They are doing just fine.  I could brag up and down about them but I don't need to.  Yes, I am very grateful for my nice job.  It puts food on the table.  I am grateful I have spectacular kids.  I am grateful for a LOT in my life.  The things you said, indirectly/directly, were very offensive and then  to pull back, say sorry and expect I'll "play nice"- I don't think so.  To attack someone on their parenting style (which you did) is probably one of the meanest things you could do-good example for daughter!   

Hello there everyone.  Nice to see that the debate is still going on.  First, I want to say I have not been around (as if anyone cares) because I started a new job.  Very hard to start over...but it will be good in the end.  Next, Purple, it's interesting how you can pick apart my messages line by line and make your comments.  I never asked you to beg my forgiveness..why is is so important to you?  That's funny to me.  I Your feelings about WM's are very clear.  In fact, my hubby read your message dated May 1st:  

" I do understand that there are times when it's needed, but I don't think the majority of kids in daycare need to be there. I also resent the idea that a SAHM like me, who gladly sacrifices things like a nice car, a house, a yard, nice clothes and eating out to stay at home and mother my child myself, all day everyday is the same level of mother as someone who's kids are in daycare all day long. Not saying that you hold that idea and I'm not saying that is what you were saying either. I just am putting my two cents on the table.
ss to sacrifice certain things. Like I said, we don't have many material things."  

You feel, whether you exactly say it or not, that women who use daycare really don't need to- that we are in essence living a lifestyle that we put above our kids."

False assumption. I never said anything like that.
 

and yes, you did mean what I thought..even he got that same impression.  Did you or did you not write this?  We are not the "same level" of Mom?  I have tried to be as diplomatic as possible on this subject but you know, I just don't think people get it.  I just get tired of hearing what more we my hubby and I) could sacrifice to keep our kids out of daycare.  Why is that the ultimate goal?  People say it a lot..."My kids have never stepped foot in a daycare".  Personally, I think balance should be the key for all families.  Some men work too much, some women need more interaction with adults, some kids need more attention from their parents and some families both single and dual incomes) could spend money more wisely.  I see single income families abusing the system or living "without" and wonder what effect that has on the family.  These same families seem to have newer cars than myself and plenty of new clothes.  I feel good knowing that my hubby and I have not ever taken a dime of welfare in any way, shape or form to support our family.  

 Our parents live far away so weekend overnighters are not really an option.  I feel good knowing my kids don't make 3 page Christmas lists but get excited to make cookies.  I feel good knowing I help my hubby provide financially and that he, in turn, helps around the house.  It's positive for kids to see that.  It's easy to see other situations whatever they may be and think how it's not like our own- better or worse.  First impressions are tough to overcome for anyone.