Messages By: tlc2225

Quote From: manda7

I graduated last year from public school.  I had excellent grades and am now doing well in college where I am studying to be a nurse. I think that people are making excuses by blaming public school when students don't do well.  With any type of school, you get what you take out of it.  Most kids today are lazy.  Why don't we call it what it is!  I do not think it is the school's fault.  I was raised by a single, disabled mother, and I was able to take advanced classes while working and doing internships.  So when I hear public schools being blamed for students not passing even the most basic classes, I think maybe we should look at how much effort the student is putting in.  I went to school, payed attention, studied, and passed the classes.  There were also students who cut school, did not pay attention, did not study, and (surprise surprise) did not pass.  It seems very simple to me, each person is responsible for their own success.  We just don't like to take responsibility for our own actions (laziness), so we blame the school (laziness).  Life is not like private school or home school.  You get what you are given in life and you choose to either work hard for success, or be lazy and blame something else for your failure.

As for the people who are choosing not to educate their children at all, I hope they feel good about crippling them for life.  Regardless of their opinion about education, it is necessary in our society.  The best job you can get without some kind of higher education is at McDonald's.  They are sentencing their children to a life of almost certain poverty.  They should be ashamed of themselves.

Quote From: danidawn3345

This sounds like the mantra of one of my old AOL boards, a favorite stomping ground I haven't visited this year because of too little time, and too many people to argue with. <grin>

 

The most important factor in whether a child receives a good education is parental involvement, regardless of the path. :)

Quote From: alwaysmom5

Here is something interesting to think about in regards Socialization, just passing this on, I did not write this interesting look at Socialization:

 

As a society full of people whose childhoods were spent waiting anxiously for recess time, and trying desperately to "socialize" with the kids in class; It is often difficult for people to have an image of a child whose social life is NOT based on school buddies. Do you ever remember sitting in class, and wanting desperately to speak to your friend? It's kind of hard to concentrate on the lessons when you're bouncing around trying not to talk. Have you ever had a teacher who rearranged the seats every now and then, to prevent talking, splitting up friends and "talking corners." Were you ever caught passing notes in class?

Now- flash forward to "real life." Imagine the following scenes:

 

Your Employer is auditing the Inter-Office Email system and comes across a personal note between you and a coworker. You are required to stand at the podium in the next sales meeting to read it aloud to your coworkers. The Police knock on your door, and announce that because you and your neighbor have gotten so close, they're separating you. You must move your home and your belongings to the other side of town, and you may only meet at public places on weekends.

 

You're sitting at a booth waiting for a coworker to arrive for a scheduled lunch date. Suddenly a member of upper management sits down across from you and demands your credit cards. When your friend arrives, you just order water and claim you're not hungry, since he stole your lunch money.

 

You're applying for a job and in an unconventional hiring practice, you are made to line up with other applicants, and wait patiently while representatives from two competing companies take their pick from the lineup.

 

You're taking your parents out for an anniversary dinner. After you find a table, a waiter tells you that seniors have a separate dining room, lest they "corrupt" the younger members of society.

You go to the grocery store only to find that since you are 32 years old you must shop at the store for 32 year olds. It's 8 miles away and they don't sell meat because the manager is a vegetarian, but your birthday is coming up and soon you'll be able to shop at the store for 33 yr. olds.

You'd like to learn about Aviation History. You go to the library and check out a book on the subject only to be given a list of "other subjects" that you must read about before you are permitted to check out the aviation book.

 

You're having a hard time finding what you need in the local department store. The saleslady explains that each item is arranged alphabetically in the store, so instead of having a section for shoes, you will find the men's shoes in between the maternity clothes and the mirrors.

 

Your Cable Company announces that anyone wishing to watch the Superbowl this year must log on a certain number of hours watching the Discovery Channel before they can be permitted to watch the game.

 

You apply for a job only to be told that this job is for 29 year olds. Since you're 32, you'll have to stay with your level.

 

In a group project, your boss decides to pair you up with the person you don't "click" with. His hope is that you'll get learn to get along with each other, regardless of how the project turns out.

 

These absurd examples were created to point out how absolutely ridiculous the idea of "socializing" in schools is. Many people had a friend who they stayed friends with all through grammar school- WHY? Because their names were alphabetically similar, and they always ended up in line with each other. As an adult, have you ever made friends with someone simply because your names were similar? How long would such a friendship last and how meaningful would it be, providing you had nothing else in common?

 

People often use the bully as an example of why it's so important to let kids "socialize" at school. If that's so important, then the bully needs to go to JAIL after a few months, because self-respecting society simply doesn't put up with that, nor should my 6 yr. old. Sure, there are crappy people in the world, but the world does a much better job of taking care of these things. A bullying brat in the first grade will still be a bullying brat in the 6th grade. He will still be picking on the same kids year after year after year, unless he moves to a new town. How long would the average adult put up with a bully? Personally, as an adult, I have only come across one grown up bully. I choose not to be around this miserable woman. So do many other people. THAT is real life. If she were a coworker, I would find a different job. If she worked at a business I patronized- not only would I refrain from doing business with that company, I would write a letter to the bully, her manager, the owner and the main office. A kid in a classroom has no way to emotionally protect themselves against such a person. I would never expect my kids to put up with bad treatment from a bully in the name of "toughening them up." For what? So they can be submissive wimps when they grow up too? So they can "ignore" their miserable bosses and abusive spouses? In real life, if an employer discovered that an employee was harassing the other staff members, that employee could be fired (pending the 90 day evaluation) or relocated. In real life, if you are so dreadfully harassed by a coworker you can seek legal recourse independently. In a classroom, the teacher and other children are often powerless.

 

The idea of learning acceptable social skills in a school is as absurd to me as learning nutrition from a grocery store.

 

As Homeschoolers, the world is our classroom. We interact with people of all ages, sexes and backgrounds. We talk to and learn from everyone who strikes our interest. We use good manners in our home and I'm always pleased when others comment on the manners my children have picked up. I believe good manners to be an important social skill.

Respecting common areas is also of value to us. We often carry a grocery bag with us on walks, in case we find trash that needs to be discarded. When we're waiting at a bus stop, if there is trash on the ground, we make a point to carry it onto the bus and discard of it properly. Once, while waiting at a bus stop- we saw a grown man drop his popsicle wrapper on the ground. He was 2 feet from a trash can- My daughter looked up at me with eyes as big as saucers. I told her (out loud) "It must have blown out of his hand from that little wind, because no-one would throw trash on the ground on purpose. I'm sure when he's done with his popsicle, he will pick it up and throw it away correctly- otherwise, we can take care of it so we don't have an ugly world." He did pick it up, rather sheepishly. I can't imagine expecting my children to have a respect for the cleanliness of common areas in an environment where bathroom walls are covered in graffiti and trees are scratched with symbols of "love" of all things.

 

Another social skill we strive to teach our children is that all people are created equal. I can't imagine doing that in an environment where physically disadvantaged children are segregated into a "special" classroom. Or even children who speak a different language at home. They are segregated and forced to learn English, while never acknowledging the unique culture they were raised in, and not enabling the other students to learn FROM them. Learning, in school, comes from the books and teachers. We will learn Spanish from a BOOK, not from a Spanish-speaking student; and not until 7th grade.

 

I have never felt it would be beneficial to stick my 6-yr. old in a room full of other 6-yr. olds. I believe God created a world full of people of all ages and sexes to insure that the younger ones and older ones learn from each other. A few years ago, we were living thousands of miles from any older family members, so I brought my kids (then 5 and 2) to an assisted living facility, so they could interact with the elderly. Staff members told us that many of the older people would wake up every day and ask if we would be visiting soon. We always went on Wednesdays. My daughters learned some old show tunes while one of the men played piano, and the others would sing along. If I didn't have to chase my 2-yr. old around, I would have had plenty of women ready to share the art of crocheting with me (something I've always wanted to learn.) If a friend was too sick to come out of their room during our visit, we would often spend a few minutes in their room. I always let them give the kids whatever cookies they had baked for them, and I ended up cleaning a few of the apartments while we visited, simply because I would have done the same for my own Grandmother. Every room had pictures from my kids posted on their refrigerators. We called this "Visiting the Grandmas and Grandpas" and my daughters both (almost 2 years later) have fond memories of our visits. I'm sure that if we were still visiting there, my unborn child would have a thousand handmade blankets and booties to keep him warm all winter.

 

I don't remember any such experiences in my entire School life, although I do remember being a bit afraid of old people if they were too wrinkly or weak looking. I never really knew anyone over 60. I never sped down the hall on someone's wheelchair lap, squealing as we popped wheelies and screeched around corners. I never got to hear stories about what life was like before indoor plumbing and electricity, from the point of view of a woman with Alzheimers, who might believe she was still 5 years old, talking with my daughter as if she were a friend. I never got to help a 90 yr. old woman keep her arm steady while she painted a picture. And I never watched a room full of "grandma's" waiting for me by the window, because we were 15 minutes late.

 

On a recent visit to an Art Gallery, we noticed a man walking back and forth, carrying framed artwork from his old pickup truck. I asked my 6 yr. old if she thought he might be the artist. We both agreed that was a possibility, and after a little pep-talk to overcome her stage fright, she approached him and asked. He was the artist, and he was bringing in his work to be evaluated by the curator. We all sat down and he explained some of his techniques and listened to her opinions about which piece she liked best. He told about how he enjoyed art when he was 6 and would "sell" pictures to family and friends. He recounted how he felt while creating a few of the pieces, and how each one has special meaning to him. He even let her know how nervous he was to show them to the curator and how he hoped she found them as interesting as we did. As he was called into the office, a group of thirty-four 3rd graders filed past, ever so quietly, while their teacher explained each piece on the walls. The children were so quiet and well behaved. They didn't seem to mind moving on from one picture to the next (The problem with homeschoolers is they tend to linger on things they enjoy). They didn't seem to have any questions or comments (Maybe they'll discuss that later in class). And they never got a chance to meet the gentleman in the pickup truck.

 

I hope my kids aren't missing out on any "socialization."

 

I so enjoyed this and hope everyone enjoyed it also.

 

 

Quote From: momofbrw

Here's a topic that nobody has mentioned.  I wish I had time to research and find the exact documents but in my own words, let me tell you about something I heard on a radio talk-show...

 

This came from the Neal Bortz show, he hates government education by the way. 

 

In many states, they have been granted enough money to further educate failing students and even offer PRIVATE tutors free of charge.  This may be in all states and may be part of the No Child Left Behind, I don't remember the details.  I do remember this part:  Only a tiny tiny percentage of parents agreed to participate. 

 

Now I realize that transportation may be the key issue for working parents but if my kid were failing, I would do whatever I had to in order to take the government up on such an offer!  I think this is offered free to help the schools with the test scores, but it is a viable option for a child who needs help.  It seems that some parents take the attitude that if they can't teach the kid in the 6 hours of school then the kid just won't get it.  I'm here to tell you that if you put that kid one-on-one with a teacher, he will learn.   Still, the gross majority of parents with failing children are not utilizing this private tutoring.  I was floored when I heard about it!!!

 

 

 

 

Quote From: missemmi

As a 4th grade teacher, I am concerned and frustrated of people's ideas of the public school system and teachers.  The comment about "wasted time"  and "extra help" during the school day really bothered me.  I know that in my classroom (and 99.9% of my colleagues), my kids are working from arrival until dismissal.  The only times that they are not working is when they are in state mandated special area classes or physical activity. (In my state, they have passed a law saying every child must have 30 minutes of rigorous physical activity a day--- therefore taking away a lot of my remediation time.  We have also been told that they can not be kept from art, music, media, or guidance classes for remedial purposes)  I am sorry, but with the days of testing and accountability we do not have TIME to be wasted.  We would be out of a job if time was wasted.  Each day, I plan activities that address the different learning styles of ALL my students as well as all of the different achievement levels.  My students are not sitting in rows, reading from a book and completing worksheets all day.  They are involved in engaging, relevant activities that appeal to thier interests.  Teachers are trained in educational science, it is not something that every parent in this world is qualified to do.  I feel like a lot of homeschooling or unschooling parents forget this when they make the decision to forego the public school route.  About the "extra help during the school day" comment...  I would love to be able to have one-on-one tutors for some of my students or even get time to work one-on-one myself.  With the guidelines set forth by the state and federal departments of education, we do not have time to pull students out for individual help on a regular basis.  They would be falling behind in other areas if they were out of the room, not to mention the fact that we simply to not have the PEOPLE to do this.  Therefore, after school is often our only option for remedial services. 
The idea of public school is quite outdated.  Before making any assumptions about wasted time, lacking curriculum, or boring and apathetic teachers, please visit some of the local schools.  Please sit in on a few classes with those teachers who really love teaching and strive to make improve the craft daily.  I bet it would change your mind about what happens in an average public school day. 

Quote From: missemmi

As a 4th grade teacher, I am concerned and frustrated of people's ideas of the public school system and teachers.  The comment about "wasted time"  and "extra help" during the school day really bothered me.  I know that in my classroom (and 99.9% of my colleagues), my kids are working from arrival until dismissal.  The only times that they are not working is when they are in state mandated special area classes or physical activity. (In my state, they have passed a law saying every child must have 30 minutes of rigorous physical activity a day--- therefore taking away a lot of my remediation time.  We have also been told that they can not be kept from art, music, media, or guidance classes for remedial purposes)  I am sorry, but with the days of testing and accountability we do not have TIME to be wasted.  We would be out of a job if time was wasted.  Each day, I plan activities that address the different learning styles of ALL my students as well as all of the different achievement levels.  My students are not sitting in rows, reading from a book and completing worksheets all day.  They are involved in engaging, relevant activities that appeal to thier interests.  Teachers are trained in educational science, it is not something that every parent in this world is qualified to do.  I feel like a lot of homeschooling or unschooling parents forget this when they make the decision to forego the public school route.  About the "extra help during the school day" comment...  I would love to be able to have one-on-one tutors for some of my students or even get time to work one-on-one myself.  With the guidelines set forth by the state and federal departments of education, we do not have time to pull students out for individual help on a regular basis.  They would be falling behind in other areas if they were out of the room, not to mention the fact that we simply to not have the PEOPLE to do this.  Therefore, after school is often our only option for remedial services. 
The idea of public school is quite outdated.  Before making any assumptions about wasted time, lacking curriculum, or boring and apathetic teachers, please visit some of the local schools.  Please sit in on a few classes with those teachers who really love teaching and strive to make improve the craft daily.  I bet it would change your mind about what happens in an average public school day. 

Quote From: dmcqueenrn

So, let me guess... you gave into the pressure of the school system, and you are medicating him? If you did, this child more than likely has an IEP (Individualized Education Program) that will follow your child the rest of the way through school... a flag that marks him as having an educational handicap, which the school makes extra money from.

 

And did you know that your ADD medications, such as Ritalin and Concerta, ARE COCAINE BASED? It is printed in black and white... in my psychology book. It's a shame that the pharmaceutical companies don't market this fact, huh?

 

And did you know that 30% of all children are medicated? Do you find this astonishing? I didn't believe it until my husband and I were camp nurses one year. And the statistics were exactly that. If there were 120 children one week, there were about 40 receiving medications for ADD/ADHD.

 

I have a son who is now 11. We tried the public school route; all they wanted to do  was to make us stuff a pill down his throat and shove him off to school. We went to counseling - and the counselor stated that he was borderline ADD, and if we remained in the public school system, that they would try to force us to medicate. She also stated that she felt that he didn't need medication.

The school did exactly that. They sent a sealed envelope to us, stating for us to not open it and take it to our doctor. So, we opened it, and discovered that they did exactly as our counselor said they would do. They lied, stating that he was fighting every day. That's funny; I never once received any call regarding any behavioral issues from anyone. And I was a room parent.

When we confronted the school about this, they denied it. Then they would make comments about "John's parents" in front of him and his class.

This was because we fought the system and chose not to medicate.

 

This medication stifles all creativity from children. The kids no longer think outside of the box, but rather become like another cow off to slaughter. Follow the crowd. Because free-thinkers are labeled as dangerous, trouble-makers, and heavan knows, we don't want free-thinking children out there.

 

I have to tell you that, when we took our 3rd grade standardized test, we achieved no lower than in the 85th percentile in all subjects.

 

I see that you address "manners" and the lack thereof in today's society. Let me point out that this is due to that wonderful socialization that everybody is concerned about, that supposedly takes place in public school. My (then) first grader came off the bus and proudly announced the F-word. Wasn't that a wonderful socialization experience! And to find out that the bus driver allowed him in the back of the bus with the 6th and 7th graders? And this is our wonderful peer system that's in place, for all of our kids to take advantage of!

 

People look at homeschoolers and believe that we stuff our kids in the cellar, and allow them to see the light of day every now and again. Maybe feed them a crumb or two. I have compliments all the time on how our kids are well-behaved and polite. This is a stark comparison to the public schooled children that we know.

 

You are defending a society where school systems are littered with  teachers who have no power to control a classroom, the teachers cannot teach, the teachers are having sex with the students, or there have to be metal detectors in place to protect our kids. Today's school system proudly totes the "no chld left behind" program, which ensures exactly that. The kids are promoted primarily on the social issue, because "it harms them if they are held back, from their friends." The school district doesn't don't care if they can read, or perform math functions. This was the outcome based education that was promoted and shot down in the mid-1990's. Our schools focus more on social acceptance of different cultures and sexual orientation of people, rather than the acedemic readiness of the students.

 

Sure.. maybe if YOU want to send them there, you have my prayers for the safety of your kids. However, my homeschooled child will be the one to excel, and be the one to climb to the top of the corporate ladder, and will be happy to interview your kid for a job.

 

Quote From: tinkerbell123

I am only soft spoken to individuals and children who may need that.  I am not harsh, I am honest and passionate.  You are correct teachers are not always qualified to be teachers, and remember that is true of parents as well.  Meaning, parents are Not always the best choice as being teachers of their children.  In a public school, that can be controlled.  In a home environment that is extemely difficult to control.(see:  CBS news investigative report called, "Home Schooling Nightmares" followed by part 2, "The Dark side to home schooling".  Not everyone is cut out to be a parent.  Homeschools is largely unregulated.  Public schools are extremely regulated, and becoming moreso as the times begin to change.  I do not want you to confuse passion and honesty, with harshness and rudeness.  This is not my intention.