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Messages By: tlc2225

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June 12, 2007, 2:36 pm PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

Also, I am not freaked out BECAUSE many Christians choose to home school, I am freaked out by their reasons. Sex education and evolution and homosexuality. Those things seem like odd reasons to home school.  I would say that home schooling is best done if you think you can do it well, not because you want to protect your child from the realities of the world.

 

What bothers me, or at least is a big factor for me, about the fact that so many homeschoolers are very religious is that my kids' (and my) social circle would BE other homeschoolers. I know homeschool kids are friends with ps kids, but let's face it....the ps kids are IN SCHOOL seven hours of the day. As they get older, they tend to be involved in extra-curricular activities through school. If I wanted my kids to have peer interaction during the day, or even wanted a hs support system, I would be surrounded by people of a completely different ideology than mine. I would find that limiting...and a bit stifling. So, the mindset and reasoning the majority of homeschooling parents choose to homeschool is extremely relevant to me if I were to consider homeschooling.

 

As far as the sex education goes....as a teacher I have found MANY student "notes" that would shock the heck out of a lot of people. Ironically, the parents who seemed most opposed to any form of sex education were the ones whose middle schoolers were already HAVING sex...or had scary misinformation about sex. Kids need to know FACTS about their sexual health, just like they need facts about all their bodies' systems.  I shared an apartment with the Health Teacher at the school.....the things these kids know, or DON'T know, can be scary.

Yes, I agree kids need to be informed on the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, but sex goes far beyond cold, hard FACTS.  Sure, you can teach kids some basic facts about sex but how do you really educate kids about sex without getting into emotion and morals? And when you get into the moral realm everyone has their own beliefs.

 

Penny made a good point in another post when she said there could be a great public health risk if there is no sex education in public schools. This is assuming parents won't take care of it f schools didn't offer it.  I guess this goes back to the million dollar question...aren't we ( Americans) as a whole capable of raising out own families and living our own lives without  the "help" of the government? Would there be complete chaos and widespread disease without public schools?  Would we regress to a nearly uncivilized society? 

 
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June 12, 2007, 6:51 pm PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: penny_lady

"I'm not upset or mad at all. Did I say  something to give you that impression?"

I meant, at was I was about to say there.

"We would all (mostly)eventually think like you ;-)"

No. And I am not for "secular humanist ideology" in schools...I am simply for facts being taught. Nothing more, nothing less. School is for learning. I know some facts offend some people, but I can't help that.

Also, I am not freaked out BECAUSE many Christians choose to home school, I am freaked out by their reasons. Sex education and evolution and homosexuality. Those things seem like odd reasons to home school.  I would say that home schooling is best done if you think you can do it well, not because you want to protect your child from the realities of the world.

"Sex....Some of us think it is private. Not taboo - private.  We don't all want our kids thinking of it in a casual way. That doesn't mean I'm a prude or "stuck" in  a bygone era. "

Private? Yes. But still a subject of learning. Facts are facts, penis+vagina=consequences. Consequences can be prevented to a DEGREE. All consequences can be prevented if one abstains from sex all together. These are facts. It becomes taboo because it has to do with wee-wee's and hoo-haw's....LOL Now, imo, teachers should not be giving techniques, personal anecdotes, or lessons on how to score. But the facts of the human body and disease should be taught...there is no harm in it. Kids, religious or not can only benefit from information.

I am freaked out by their reasons. Sex education and evolution and homosexuality. Those things seem like odd reasons to home school.

 

I highly doubt many people decide to homeschool based on these three reasons alone. They would only be a part of a reason. People consider things like feminism and socialism, drugs, discipline and EDUCATION, etc. etc , etc.

 
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June 12, 2007, 6:55 pm PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: penny_lady

"Yes, I agree kids need to be informed on the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, but sex goes far beyond cold, hard FACTS.  Sure, you can teach kids some basic facts about sex but how do you really educate kids about sex without getting into emotion and morals? And when you get into the moral realm everyone has their own beliefs."

That can be said for almost any topic. Take that guy who traveled on a crowded plane with TB recently. That right there is a moral and ethical situation with cold hard facts attached to it.

The emotional/moral side to sex doesn't change if the facts are given or not. Pregnancy happens when a sperm enters a female egg and it implants itself inside the uterus. That is a fact whether there are emotional parts or not.

The emotions and morals of sex are different for each person. Some people are on one extreme of sex being for procreation only, others believe it's a free for all that all can participate in. Most of us are some where between...but no matter where on that spectrum you fall, facts of human sexual activity are the same. A puritan, traditional, fundamental Christian can gets AIDS the very same way a liberal, progressive and experimental agnostic does. A condom will be just as effective for both.

"I guess this goes back to the million dollar question...aren't we ( Americans) as a whole capable of raising out own families and living our own lives without  the "help" of the government? Would there be complete chaos and widespread disease without public schools?  Would we regress to a nearly uncivilized society?"

With out government? No. With out education? Yes. The government facilitates education to the masses. The basics should be taught and I believe human sexuality is as basic as it can get. I would rather kids know how to use condoms and understand their own bodies functions and the harsh, cold, real consequences of them before they know about algebra. Why? Because being ignorant of algebra isn't a threat to the masses. AIDS is. Unwanted kids are. We have grown men in Africa raping virgins because they think it will cure AIDS. Now, we are far off from that, but the difference is education.

With out government?

Really? I think it would be a disaster if we didn't have a government to enforce the Constitution.

 

No. With out education? Yes

Without education... but would we somehow manage without PUBLIC education?

 
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June 13, 2007, 3:31 am PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: penny_lady

"Yes, I agree kids need to be informed on the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, but sex goes far beyond cold, hard FACTS.  Sure, you can teach kids some basic facts about sex but how do you really educate kids about sex without getting into emotion and morals? And when you get into the moral realm everyone has their own beliefs."

That can be said for almost any topic. Take that guy who traveled on a crowded plane with TB recently. That right there is a moral and ethical situation with cold hard facts attached to it.

The emotional/moral side to sex doesn't change if the facts are given or not. Pregnancy happens when a sperm enters a female egg and it implants itself inside the uterus. That is a fact whether there are emotional parts or not.

The emotions and morals of sex are different for each person. Some people are on one extreme of sex being for procreation only, others believe it's a free for all that all can participate in. Most of us are some where between...but no matter where on that spectrum you fall, facts of human sexual activity are the same. A puritan, traditional, fundamental Christian can gets AIDS the very same way a liberal, progressive and experimental agnostic does. A condom will be just as effective for both.

"I guess this goes back to the million dollar question...aren't we ( Americans) as a whole capable of raising out own families and living our own lives without  the "help" of the government? Would there be complete chaos and widespread disease without public schools?  Would we regress to a nearly uncivilized society?"

With out government? No. With out education? Yes. The government facilitates education to the masses. The basics should be taught and I believe human sexuality is as basic as it can get. I would rather kids know how to use condoms and understand their own bodies functions and the harsh, cold, real consequences of them before they know about algebra. Why? Because being ignorant of algebra isn't a threat to the masses. AIDS is. Unwanted kids are. We have grown men in Africa raping virgins because they think it will cure AIDS. Now, we are far off from that, but the difference is education.

. I would rather kids know how to use condoms and understand their own bodies functions and the harsh, cold, real consequences of them before they know about algebra. Why? Because being ignorant of algebra isn't a threat to the masses. AIDS is. Unwanted kids are

 

You make a good point. I concede. Seriously, as things are now it only makes sense to teach sex ed in public schools. Parents are so depndent on schools right now that it would get pretty ugly if the responsibility was suddenly shifted to parents.

I don't fault people who choose to educate their children about sex on their own.

I do wish a nice common middle ground could be found as far as what to teach. Meaning, not the "well you're going to do it anyway so this is what you do" kind of talk - and not abstinence only either. And I wish we could be sure the sex ed teachers were competent. Most importantly,I think parents should be able to opt out and should be well informed on what exactly is being taught.

 
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June 13, 2007, 3:33 am PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: puggles

Does your bible say "you must go out and bible bash every non violent peace loving atheist on the planet?"  Not buying today thanks.
HUH?? Did I miss something?  He wasn't bible bashing anyone, was he?
 
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June 15, 2007, 5:00 am PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: penny_lady

"I'm not upset or mad at all. Did I say  something to give you that impression?"

I meant, at was I was about to say there.

"We would all (mostly)eventually think like you ;-)"

No. And I am not for "secular humanist ideology" in schools...I am simply for facts being taught. Nothing more, nothing less. School is for learning. I know some facts offend some people, but I can't help that.

Also, I am not freaked out BECAUSE many Christians choose to home school, I am freaked out by their reasons. Sex education and evolution and homosexuality. Those things seem like odd reasons to home school.  I would say that home schooling is best done if you think you can do it well, not because you want to protect your child from the realities of the world.

"Sex....Some of us think it is private. Not taboo - private.  We don't all want our kids thinking of it in a casual way. That doesn't mean I'm a prude or "stuck" in  a bygone era. "

Private? Yes. But still a subject of learning. Facts are facts, penis+vagina=consequences. Consequences can be prevented to a DEGREE. All consequences can be prevented if one abstains from sex all together. These are facts. It becomes taboo because it has to do with wee-wee's and hoo-haw's....LOL Now, imo, teachers should not be giving techniques, personal anecdotes, or lessons on how to score. But the facts of the human body and disease should be taught...there is no harm in it. Kids, religious or not can only benefit from information.

No. And I am not for "secular humanist ideology" in schools...I am simply for facts being taught. Nothing more, nothing less. School is for learning. I know some facts offend some people, but I can't help that.


How do you feel about character education in public schools?

 
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June 18, 2007, 9:03 am PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

I know your kids are still pretty young, but hopefully during the course of their public school education they will learn about the Constitution. They will understand where the phrase "separation of Church and State" comes from and why the Founding Fathers set up our government in such a way that a bully majority was limited in their ability to impose non-secular beliefs on the masses.

 

 

why the Founding Fathers set up our government in such a way that a bully majority was limited in their ability to impose non-secular beliefs on the masses.

 

Julie - this is OT but I'm hoping you can explain this to me - or maybe gtrudeau can since he is such a history buff.  As you said, the Founder's intentionally created our Constitutional Republic because they were fully aware of what a majority rules democracy would entail. Why does everyone (including teachers and the President)  refer to the US as a democracy? I realize we have a democratic election process and some democratic traditions, but it seems to me there is a huge difference between the two and I don't know why the terms are used interchangeably.

 

 
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June 18, 2007, 7:22 pm PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

I may not be the best at explaining this, so I am going to give you a very simplified version. We are a democratic republic...everyone has a vote (democracy), but in Presidential elections our votes go to a representative to cast an electoral vote (republic). Most of the Founding Fathers were VERY educated and well-read men who studies the classics and philosophers. Our government is a hodgepodge of the different ideals of government from the Greek and Roman philosophers and governments (among other things).

 

There is more to it than that, but it is more complex than I can put in a post. We have tenets of both democracy and a republic in our government. I have taken a break from my Founding Fathers readings to re-read the Harry Potter books in preparation for the final book. Gotta have your priorities straight ;)

thank you for your reply
 
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August 9, 2007, 3:18 pm PDT

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: penny_lady

Oh hey, that's cool. I just happened to check over here just now. What a weird coincidence...lol

I thought of this board because I was explaining on another board my reasons for homeschooling and I must say, it made me feel for those of you here who go under attack for your choice when your reasons are solid.

Frank is already chipping away at a timeline program he is making for Emma's education. Basically it will be a world timeline that Emma can enter in information as she learns it about any topic. If she learns about the discovery of a planet she can enter that in. If she learns about the discovery of a disease she can enter that in. She can enter in if a cure is found. She can enter in periods of time, such as the dark ages. And you will be able to zoom in and out of this timeline in order to get a good idea about what was going on in different parts of the world and in different subjects (math, science, social events, historical events, natural disasters etc) at the same time.

It's going to be great! i am very excited about it. He is hoping to have the whole thing ready in a few years...if he works on it now and then.


thought of this board because I was explaining on another board my reasons for homeschooling and I must say, it made me feel for those of you here who go under attack for your choice when your reasons are solid.

 

You aren't kidding!  I'm finding this out too - and they aren't the least bit shy about expressing their disapproval. A few people surprised me with support though.  I can't wait until the other kids start back to school and people realize mine isn't going back.

 

BTW, Penny, what do you tell people?  Ultimately, what IS your reason.  I can't give a short answer. For me, this started because of a few horibble teachers .  As time went on, I ended up with so many reasons  - now,  I don't know which one to give LOL! 

 

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