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Messages By: grandadjay

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December 22, 2006, 3:44 pm PST

Complet failure by Michigan Friend of Court

After receiving a mountain of information from the father, FOC never bothered to contact a single person, doctor or investigate a single allegation. Instead their recommendation was to give primary custody of our 5 yr old grandson to the mother without a single allegation of negativity towards the father.

 

Among documentation given to FOC were:

 

Documented mental disorders of the mother beginning at childhood with continuous counseling her entire life.

 

Documented involuntary admission to a mental hospital for suicide watch.

 

Long standing history of CPS referrals against the mother going back 15 yrs for child neglect of children from a previous marriage.  A recent referral to CPS of substantiated child neglect by way of providing filthy living condition, complete with the stink of cat urine and feces.  A doctor also filed a complaint against the mother for the same conditions after examine the child.

 

Contact information for a recent landlord (separate apartment from where CPS found neglect) who subsequently testified at the trial of eviction notices to the mother for the creating the same conditions of squalor.

 

Documented (public records) of the mother's diagnosis of Munchausen’s by Mich State Univ.

 

Allegations that the mother fabricated rare medical conditions to the child who is the object of the custody battle.

 

Contact name and information of people and counselors who have known the mother for 20 yrs and know of her past behavior, including history of "cutting"

 

Despite all of this, FOC never lifted a finger to so much as contact a single person listed nor made any investigation into public records.

 

Instead based on a 1/2 psychologist’s interview with each parent, they found the mother to be more "nurturing"   The recommendation of nurturing cited the mother's knowledge and care of the child's rare condition.  This was the fabricated diagnosis proved to be false, yet never investigated by FOC, with no basis other than the mother's false input to the child's history.  Incredibly, FOCs recommendation found fault with the father for suggesting the mother's fabrication of medical symptoms.

 

From FOCs recommendation ensued three lengthy trial continuations which included testimony from all the parties offered to FOC as having knowledge.  Despite testimony from doctors, counselors, CPS and landlord, the judge still found in favor of the mother, even in light of glaring inconsistencies in her own testimony.

 

The judge's only negative against the father was based on his work schedule as opposed by the non-working mother's full time availability. The judge also discounted the likelihood that the mother suffered from Obsessive Compulsive hoarding as evidenced by the squalor like environment she provided for the child.  Instead, he agreed with FOCs opinion that she was a "bad housekeeper"

 

We are now awaiting final judgment which will significantly reduce the father's contact with his child while there is mounting evidence the mother continues to seek unneeded mental and physical treatment for the child by citing fabricated symptoms. 

 

As grand parents, we are saddened that the mother will continue to harm the child emotionally and possibly physically for her own emotional needs.

 

Our only hope is the one real medical symptom suffered by the mother (diabetes) will cause her early demise and correct the problem by divine intervention.

 

 

 
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April 28, 2008, 7:48 am PDT

Protection for the children

The showed touched on the most important thing - the children.  Yes, there are many factors behind hoarding and sufferers need help.  However, a more important and immediate concern is the children.  Not only are there health and safety concerns, but the long term emotional issues will haunt the children forever.  From the example set by parents, they may become hoarders too.

 

Thankfully, there are people who will risk a friendship to bring a situation out in the open as was the case today.  These people are few and far between and as shown on today's show are met with hostility for "interferring".   This leave absolutely no one to safeguard the safety of the children.   Would Dr Phil have a show about pedofiles and paint them as "needing help"?  Of course not.  The victims are the children, not those who suffer from pedo or hoarding.   The children's safety should be the primary focus.

 

As mentioned on today's show, the police were involved 30 times.  Was Child Protective Services  involved?  My guess is if they did, nothing was done to protect the children.   I have personally seen a situation where time and time again CPS doesn't not see hoarding as a detriment to the child.  If there are no broken bones, blood, etc, there is no neglect.  Even in cases where enviromental neglect was found, all they felt was necessary was guidence for the offender.  

 

Thankfully, your show at least touched on the real issue - children and not just the hoarders as victims of circumstances.  Perhaps someone, somewhere in Protective Services will make the connection.   I'd love to see someone from CPS in Dr Phill's hot seat trying to explain why they don't think living in a pig style isn't child abuse.   

 
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April 28, 2008, 9:24 am PDT

CPS doesn't have a clue....

Quote From: sunnylashel

I turned my daughter in for the conditions she was forcing her son to live in.  She was given 30 days to clean it up.  She proved she was working at it and they dropped the case.  Once the 'threat' was over, she went back to her slovenly ways.

 

The thing that is hard to believe is how these folks can walk out of those homes looking perfect and squeaky clean!!  My daughter has spent 19 years in the Air Force...HOW can she be such a pig at home?  How can she deprive her son of a place to play or have friends over? 

 

While she was in Iraq, my grandson and I gutted his room and redid it.  The 2 cats had used his room for a litter pan so I gave them away.  It hurt him but as we pulled the rug off the floor...he understood.  We discovered mold and mildew also.  I became physically sick several times a day!  After hauling his mothers things out of his room and putting the 20 large bottles of laundry soap and 32 bottles of softener in the laundry room, went through the shopping bags and put things away...the room became manageable.  We spent most of the summer on his room because we could only work on 1/4th of it at a time and I had a broken leg. 

 

We started on her room and the laundry room.  The cats had used her room also.  Her room is half  the basement and was piled to within inches of the ceiling.  6 months later and it looks even worse than when we cleaned it up!  AND she's in debt again!  I had control of her money when she was in Iraq.  I got all her debts paid off and had over 5 thousand in savings for her!

 

I just threatened her again so she's attempting to clean up.  My grandson is now 11 and it's becoming harder and harder to explain to his friends why they can't come play at his house.  He can't even let them in the front door!

 

My daughter refuses 'professional help' because of her job in the Air Force.  She has NO organizational skills.  I get her organized and she does well for awhile, but eventually she buys so much that there is just NO place to go with it all.  I don't know what to do anymore!  You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!  She's got a huge heart and does a lot of charity work but I tell her charity begins at home and she just rolls her eyes.  It's a no win situation.

 

I hope to learn how to get through to her by watching this show.  They have to WANT help to GET help!

 

CPS has some very strange rules when it comes to removing a child from his home.  Most of the time they just threaten.  How would the school know when the child comes to school in designer clothes and squeaky clean? 

 

Sunny 

They either have their heads in the sand as to the long term affects of hoarding on children or they are like most government workers with top heavy bueracracy that dictates inefficiency.  Inefficiency often turns to not caring and trying to lighten ones work load.  

 

The job of protecting children should be given to police and not a division of social services who become jaded with dealing with the indignant.

 

Sunny, I'd love to talk to you.  It sounds like we both care about our grandkids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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April 28, 2008, 9:33 am PDT

Up to Dr Phill???

Quote From: tc19671

I cannot believe that in a time of child neglect at an all  time high, that people who decide to live like this are not loosing their children. Not only are they endangering their children and potionally exposing them to many illnesses, that authorities are not stepping in to remove these children. It sickens me to know that the department of child services are not involved in the care of these children. School officals have to be made aware, the town needs to be aware, and CPS needs to be made aware. And Dr. Phil it looks like it is up to you to make sure these children are removed  from this filth and madness that their parents have put them in, maybe if parents cared more about the children they chose to have instead of their own chaos the children would be better off, I am a foster parent and it makes me so angry to know that parents hide this situation and so nothing is done to help the children, apparently not even the extended family cares enough about these children to get them out, Shame on those family members.

On one hand, Dr Phil or the producers are to be commended for puting this show on.  Kudos for not treating it like a "boo hoo, pity me"  for being a horader, spectacle like Oprah did last year.  At least this show came across with some caring for the kids.   There have been a number of comments about the children and lack of action by CPS.  The big question is will Dr Phil do anything about it?   Is it important enought for him to do a follow up with authorities?   Or isn't there enough shock value for ratings in that idea?

 

 

 
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April 28, 2008, 9:35 am PDT

Maybe...

Quote From: afraid

maybe the children will hate clutter and filth after having to live in it with there mother for so many years, i bet they will keep a house clean enough to perform open heart sergury on the kitchen table if they had to.
Or maybe they will grow up paranoid of opening the door as a throwback to living in a mess.  Maybe they will grow up to be hoarders themselves.  Bottom line the odds are against children who have lived like this.   My heart goes out to them. 
 
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April 28, 2008, 9:40 am PDT

Here is the big question to hoarders

You are a hoarder.  You know it and you consciously hide the fact by keeping people, acquaintences, police, repairmen, etc from inside your house.   You know it is wrong and you know it is detrimental to your children.  However, when threatened by any authority, you can be motivated to clean up.

 

Is it a sickness or is it a conscious choice to place blame on everyone else and turn yourself into a victim?  If you can clean up under threat of consequences, why can't you clean up for the sake of your children?

 

 

 
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April 29, 2008, 6:55 pm PDT

Hello CPS what a joke!

Quote From: jerrycat1

Why has there been no comment re: child protective services made by Dr. Phil or his staff??  In my jurisdiction, those children would have been apprehended immediately, given the concerns identified:  FILTHY living conditions which present a health and safety concern (neglect); ongoing drug/alcohol abuse by one or both of the adults in the home; exposure to domestic violence; failure to provide the necessities of life. 

 

The children would not have been returned to that home until it was cleaned up completely (verified by a caseworker), and both adults had at least started counselling and shown some form of progress.  Both adults need substance abuse counselling, and counselling re: domestic violence.

 

Children who witness domestic violence are victims of child abuse.  The mother admitted that she has been held in a choke hold, with a hammer held to her head by her intoxicated partner.  Mother states that police have been to the home over 30 times.  GIVE ME A BREAK!  Mother can choose to live in this situation, but she CANNOT make that choice for her children. 

 

If Dr. Phil and have staff have not reported this to child protection, and provided them with a tape of the show, they are being grossly negligent of their responsibility to report child abuse. 

 

So,....what is it?  Have the authorities been notified or not??

 

Waiting for a reply.

 

CPS doesn't give a rip about the filth.  They see this time and time again,  The motto they live by is if the kids are not bleeding and broken, there is no neglect.  Even if they do order the house to be cleaned up, they siill will not remove the children.  You can bet CPS has been in that house and you can bet they have turned a blind eye to it.  If the kids are reasonably clean, fed and show no signs of physcial abuse don't bet the farm on them being removed.

 

I've seen this time and time again.  At some point the hoarders who fill up a 3000 sq ft house have to start small with a smaller pile of trash.   Perhaps at this point, they are "hoarders in training".   Many are transient and don't live anywhere long enough to create a deep enough pile of trash.   This "training" ground is where lazy people learn the system.  They learn how to avoid CPS or any authority.  In the unlikely event CPS does get called by police or whoever, hoarders have a sixtth sense and begin to clean.  If you are in a small apartment, it is easy to jam stuff in boxes, shovel it into plastic bags and take it somewhere (What do you think is in all those storage places?). 

 

If CPS actually finds the place a mess, the typical reaction is to sympathise with the hoarder and offer help to learn how to organize.  Ha, organize!.  Better to teach them how to drive a bulldozer.  A little cramming and sticking of junk behind closed doors is all it takes to satisfy CPS.   Good mommy, you're making progress, case closed (until next time and the 20 times after that till it gets so bad the rats move in.

 

 

 

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