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Messages By: rubicon05
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August 27, 2007, 1:17 am PDT
 Quote From: rannieb My husband and I have been married for almost 20 years. When we were dating, and for about the first ten years or so, he was very romantic. Over the past five years, that has changed. When I asked him about it, he told me he never really was that way; he just did those things to get me to marry him. We have been slowly growing apart emotionally. I no longer feel loved by him, and when I try to talk to him about it, he says I'm too "needy" and that he should not be my source of happiness. Although he is a wonderful father to our two children, and helps around the house, he provides no emotional support to me whatsoever. I try to be affectionate towards him, and he acts repulsed. It has been over three years since we have had sex, and over the past 5 or 6 years, we've only made love 4 or 5 times - and every time I was the initiator. It has been years since we've had a dinner alone (even though I've found sitters for the kids and tried to set these up myself) and I literally can't tell you the last time we went to the movies. We've never taken a long weekend away from home without the kids.
I feel so lonely and so unloved right now. I am 42 years old, and never in my worst dreams did I think I would be in this position at such a young age. We are in a "supper club" with 10 other couples, and it has gotten to the point that I hate going to them, because I see how affectionate the other couples are to one another, and my husband and I are like two people who just happened to arrive together. I still love my husband, but I am so starved for affection that I find myself daydreaming about other men. I just want someone to hold me, kiss me, treat me like a loveable and desirable woman.
I can't talk to any of my friends about this, because all of my friends are part of a "couple" and they are all friends of my husband, too. I have tried to talk to my husband about counseling, but he thinks it is only my problem, not his, so therefore it isn't "our" problem. He thinks that I should just be happy and content with our lives, and any feelings I have otherwise are just selfish.
I just can't imagine spending the rest of my life being so unhappy. I try to keep my spirits up around my kids, and we never fight in front of them or loud enough for them to hear it. They both are happy, smart, popular children. I would never do anything to hurt either of them - they are the shining lights of my life.
Is there any advice someone can give me about my situation? I can't imagine any man being interested in me, but if there was, I don't know that I would be able to resist his attention. I hate to be the one to suggest this, are you sure that he isn't having sex with someone else? I just don't think many men would just go without sex for years! I am assuming that there was a time when the two of you enjoyed a very active sex life and that there are no medical reasons for his current lack of interest. As for his lack of affection towards you, I personally believe that sex and physical affection are 2 parts of the same thing. I can't imagine my husband behaving very loving and wanting to be close to me and then not have sex with me for years? My advice to you is probably going to get me in trouble with other members but I'm going to voice it anyway! First, do not push him or fight with him about sex or affection. You can bring it up without talking about it. I think that you need to change the way he is thinking of you. Maybe he has forgotten that you are anything other than a wife to him and a mother to your children! Time to remind him that you are a person independant of those two things. A person who needs physical contact with another person! A sexual person. If you were to become involved with another man you would probably dress or act differently around that man and it would be because he makes you feel sexy! Aren't you sexy now? You should do all the things that make you feel sexy...for you. Your husband will notice. And, I think you should be able to get away for a weekend free of household duties and children...go without him if he isn't interested in going. Go to the movies now and then. Remind him of the woman you are! But, don't throw these things in his face, you are doing the things you want to do ,for you. Seems that you have been nagging him to do things with you and then letting him decide that neither of you were going to do any of those things....don't nag him, and don't let his refusal to take you keep you from going! I have one more question for you...when you try to initiate sex with him are you doing the things you want him to do for you or are you doing the things he likes? My hubby told me for years that I never really iniated or that he didn't know when I wanted sex...he really couldn't read my signals! All that time what he really wanted was a no doubt about my intentions hand in his pants move! It is a no fail approach for me ! I went from having a so-so luke warm sex life to a really hot one. I also flirt with him regularly. Yes, it's kinda silly and not real serious but it is fun and it does seem to change the atmospere of our relationship. I tell him what I wanna do to him or what I want him to do to me! I send him increasingly provacative text messages while he is at work. I also try to find reasons to show up at his place of work maybe twice a month dressed up or kinda sexy.Fridays as everyone is leaving works best for me...his male co-workers think he is sooo lucky and tell him so! A lot of them have wives better looking and younger than me....sexy is as sexy does! I hope this helps you out....I really feel badly for you. |
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August 27, 2007, 1:45 am PDT
Quote From: crystaltyler My husband and I have been married for 4 months I know that is a short time but now we are having trouble in the bedroom, he has not actually cheated on my physically but since we have been together he has built and I have ended 2 romantic relationships with other women and now he has started a close friendship with another and she has feelings for him... he has stopped spending time with her (because of me telling him to stop) but he still texts her sometimes ( the 2 above mentioned relationship were over the phone and computer) I am trying to work it out with him and I have my plan set to stop this one he is involving himself in right now...
The reason why he keeps straying is because he is one of this men who is never happy with what he has...
I am trying to spice up our bedroom life and also stop being the nagging mother like wife that I am....
I still feel like he is not wanting to to spice up the bedroom life... when we have sex it is usually like f***ing other than making love and I can't seem to change that... I have been reading a couples guide to intamicy and he has been going on with it, I will read out loud or sometimes he will lay next to me and just listen. We are doing the quizes and everything I thought that it was a good approach, but now it just seems as if when ever I want sex it is like a chore for him I keep trying to talk to him about it and he just says "OMG why do you have to make a big deal out of everything!" I am the type of woman that wants it everynight and when we first got together and married he wanted it everynight too!!! But now I trying to start it and he tells me he is too tired and then when he actually has sex with me I want more foreplay and he wants to get it done and over with. I was afraid that he was having sex wtih this other woman and I found out last week that no he hasn't so I know it is not because he is cheating on me... I don't know what it is I miss the good love making and good foreplay. When I told him that I want more foreplay and I want to change some things in the bedroom he said "why fix whats not broken" I am very unhappy with sex and he says he is.
I told him maybe we should get chocolate and paint brushes and he said not (he is lactose and tolerant) I said maybe lets play strip poker and he said now that was a dumb idea... I got candles and he laughed at me I bought a nitey and he loves it but I mean come on theres got to be something else other than the same thing every night....
He said porn and sex toys... but he wont do the porn thing, everytime I suggest it he tells me no not tonight well here we are 3 weeks later and every night is not tonight...
I agree with the sex toys but maybe that will make it better but I want the intamicy too!!! Does anyone know what I should do??? |
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August 27, 2007, 2:13 am PDT
Quote From: dolface_23 My name is Desiree and I have 3 crazy kids and I am 24 years old. I got started early, I have a great man in my life and his name is Matt. We started out having sex before kids at least 5-6 times a day. After the kids our sex life is kinda boring. It feels that when we are having sex that he is thinking of another women. He never says it but I don't feel that connection anymore. I love him so much and I want things to work out but I just don't know. He seems to think that sex is the main thing in the relationship. He feels with sex, he thinks everything is ok when we have sex. I just feel used. I really don't know why. There is a huge body image problem with me and I do put that on him alot. I would love to go back to having great sex and not just sex I mean that feeling every part of your body tingle and that connection wanting it to never end. I want that sex again. How do I get that back? I need help!
Is it me and if it is what do I change? I think sex is a big deal in a relationship because without it there is no releasing of emotional connection. I need to feel that way again. I need to wanted and loved.
There is alittle more to this. I did catch him on the net looking at porn. It really made me sick. I really didn't think that would ever happen. I didn't think he would disrespect me like that but he did. He denied it for a long time and then told the truth which even made me more angry. I knew he did it but I didn't want to know for sure. I think that all men look at porn now and then, I wouldn't make too big of a deal about it until and unless it becomes a constant problem. I kinda get the feeling that the main problem is how you feel about yourself. You say that you have a big body image problem and that you put that on him? He doesn't seem to have a problem with how you look ,as you say he really wants to have sex with you! You said that you feel used and that he is thinking of other women. It seems that you have such a poor body image that you cannot believe that he could feel attracted to you and so he must be thinking of other women and just using you! You need to relax and enjoy the sex..how it feels not how it looks! You haven't really said anything that makes me think that this guy is anything but good. And, it is never a good idea to be mad because he told you the truth! Are you constantly putting yourself down to him? Your Hubby wants you to feel sexy and confident. If you are not proud of your body then change it! But, you don't wanna point out the things he probably wouldn't even notice otherwise! If you look the same tomorrow as you do today but you feel sexy and confident instead of having all those negative thoughts taking over, he will think you look different. a lot of the way you look comes from the inside. again...he seems like a good one! a keeper! Good luck |
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January 21, 2008, 12:38 pm PST
Quote From: cfnamier Oh please don't feel sad for us. My wife loves me and I love her, I bring her flowers about 3 times a month, take her out to eat often, buy her "Youth Dew" perfume for almost any holiday (I know what fragrance she wears, and her dress size is currently a 10). We work crossword puzzles together and laugh a lot.
When we married we pledged to share our lives with each other. We have shared all the ups and downs of life for 40 years and great sex is part of the sharing. Great sex with each other and good sex with very close friends.
Swinging is not for most couples because they are not deeply in love, we are. I know there is no other woman out there for me, if she wanted to stop swinging today I would say O.K. and it would stop cold, and if I wanted to stop she would say O.K. We do it because it is fun for us. We have great self esteem, self worth and any of the other catch phrases you can think of.
So we are O.K. and we are good people, we just have sexy fun.
First off, let me say that I have not seen this show but from what most of you have written I would tend to think that this couple is not happy in any aspect of their marriage and that adding another sex partner would totally destroy any chances they have of marital bliss! Sounds like the husband is forcing the wife into a situation that she is not comfortable with....I would tell her to stand strong because he isn't thinking about her at all and it's likely he will cheat on her even if she gives in. Their problems aren't about sex and sex won't fix them! I appreciate what this husband (cfnamier) had to say about marriage and it is obvious to me that he is more in tune with how his wife feels than most husbands are. That seems to be the case with most of the swinging couples I've had the opportunity to meet. These are the most confident and relaxed couples...the ones envied by others. You can see the love when they look at each other! To the person who said flowers are not love...the fact is all wives like little surprise, I was thinking of you gifts. If you did not know he was a swinger you would applaud his thoughtfulness towards his wife! My relationship is one envied by others. We have been married 20+ years and started swinging 3 years ago. Not often... 4 times in 3 years. We waited until our children had their own lives. We have no jealousy issues, we trust each other completely, and we genuinely enjoy spending time together. We can and do talk about things that most couples avoid because they feel uncomfortable. We feel a closeness that is hard to describe. He treats me like I am golden. I am strong, confident, self assured, intelligent, feminine, sexual, proud, honest, genuine, flirtatious, playful, fun, adventurous, talented, happily married, and loved by the one I love! I am a very happy woman! I am curious about the couples who think swinging is bad for a good relationship but where the reason is other than religion. Are your reasons based on a review of actual facts, personal knowledge or just a negative emotional response? I believe that a lot of the negativity towards your spouse having sex with someone else is just pure jealousy. Would you feel threatened by another woman? Would her looks, talent, imagination, enthusiasm, etc... steal him away? Would he love you less? If any one of those things could happen they will happen anyway! But, it is more likely that those are your issues, your fears and have nothing to do with your husband or your relationship with him. You should be honest with yourself. Your relationship will suffer from jealousy and poor self image, doubt and suspicion so even if swinging is never an option for you at least you won't fear it as you do now. You might come to see swingers as just another way some couples enjoy their free time now and then. Be happy for us because we are very happy!
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January 22, 2008, 9:42 am PST
Quote From: vabtrfly It just so happens that my best friend is engaged to a man who indulged in the swinging lifestyle with his last wife. They were married 22+ years and were swingers for the last 5 years of that marriage. What brought an end to that marriage? Swinging. What began as a consensual agreement between married partners ended up a nightmare. Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it. These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst. My friends fiance opted out of the lifestyle and his x-wife chose to continue with many extra marital affairs to satisfy her addiction. The marriage ended because of this. If you asked him today, he would tell you how much he regrets his choice to swing. The definition of fantasy is described as such...
1 obsolete : HALLUCINATION
There is nothing wrong with "fantasy" and being able to share fantasies with your spouse IS healthy. However, "acting" upon it no longer qualifies it as a fantasy. I know many "non' swinging couples who are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another, and they have very meaningful and close relationships with each other. That has nothing to do with sharing one's body with strangers. It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together, and wouldn't have the need or desire to masturbate using an outsiders body. And no, this isn't from a religious stand point. It's from a purely clinical one.
As far as the children.... all of the swingers who have children and have voiced their opinions here say the same thing, "we don't discuss our sex lives with them, they have no idea of our personal life preference", etc. Children are extremely aware of what goes on inside their homes. Don't lull yourselves in to a false sense of security by thinking they could never find out. They are like little sponges soaking up everything. Children can navigate the internet better than most adults. Are you sure they don't snoop (as most kids do) through your browsing history??? Your private email??? Private pictures??? And if your children don't.... your neighbors children or your friends children most likely do. The very arguement that "non" swingers would be surprised at how many actual swingers are close by, if they simply accessed a swingers site and typed in their zip code, proves my point. Besides, just because so many are doing it, doesn't make it acceptable. And if it is so harmless and just 'sexy" fun, why do the vast majority of swingers hide what they do... from friends, co-workers, family, and yes... even their own children??? If you believe in what you do, if you believe that it's just sexy harmless fun, then you should be able to stand by your choices without fearing what other's may think.
Just my opinions and observations. It just so happens that my best friend is engaged to a man who indulged in the swinging lifestyle with his last wife. They were married 22+ years and were swingers for the last 5 years of that marriage. What brought an end to that marriage?? Swinging. What began as a consensual agreement between married partners ended up a nightmare. Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it. These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst. My friends fiance opted out of the lifestyle and his x-wife chose to continue with many extra marital affairs to satisfy her addiction. The marriage ended because of this. If you asked him today, he would tell you how much he regrets his choice to swing. The definition of fantasy is described as such... You said it....affairs ended this marriage, not swinging! Cheating on your spouse is a problem in non -swinging relationships also! 'Swinging' is an activity enjoyed by both the husband and the wife, cheating is something you do without the consent or knowledge of your spouse!
Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it. These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst. Where do you get this information from? Is this fact or opinion? If it is opinion,what is the basis? I do agree that ANYONE who might have problems distinguishing between reality and fantasy does have a problem.
There is nothing wrong with "fantasy" and being able to share fantasies with your spouse IS healthy. However, "acting" upon it no longer qualifies it as a fantasy. #1I know many "non' swinging couples who are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another, and they have very meaningful and close relationships with each other. That has nothing to do with sharing one's body with strangers. #2 It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together, and wouldn't have the need or desire to masturbate using an outsiders body. And no, this isn't from a religious stand point. It's from a purely clinical one. #1 You are correct...my husband and I 'are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another' and we ' have very meaningful and close relationships with each other' and that has nothing to do with the fact that we occasionally share our bodies with (non) strangers. #2' It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together ' Agreed...should and do! But...what do you mean by 'masturbate using an outsiders body' ? mas·tur·ba·tion I take offense at everything in your last paragraph.... Responsible parenting should be the objective for all parents regardless of their sexual preferences. I think that children should be taught to respect the relationship between the parents and their privacy. That said...I know for a fact that most kids are snoops by nature. I have always kept my bedroom door closed and inside is a closet that is always locked. My hubby and I have always taken naked pics of each other and once long ago a video was made...all in the closet. Also in the closet is my laptop, any other objects related to our private lives and that is where I keep banking and credit records which I also consider private. This is how it has always been in our home , even before we began 'to masturbate using an outsiders body' Surely there are things that you keep private. I do not hide what I do, what we do...out of the context of sex it is not Necessary or prudent for anyone to know what goes on behind closed doors. The difference between secrecy and privacy is a matter of shame...I have nothing that I feel ashamed of. I sincerely hope you don't either.
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January 22, 2008, 10:44 am PST
I want to address a few more items.... one....swingers engage with other like-minded people on purpose...no one wants to get tangled up with an unhappy couple, a cheater, or someone who has been coerced. Drama is a no-no! two....men are not responible for the existence of swinging nor is it always their idea! three...the fact is that many happy with what they have couples are swinging worldwide without any adverse results. four...most people do not want their sexual practices or desires to be known to the public...this is not shame, it is privacy!
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January 24, 2008, 2:12 pm PST
Quote From: vabtrfly Without picking apart your post piece by piece.... (I just don't have that kind of time, sorry.)
In short... for people to engage in the swinging lifestyle, it is necessary to stretch boundaries beyond the norm of human conditioning. That's not a guess, it is fact. Often times, serious personality disorders and/or sexual addictions are at the forefront of such sexual behaviors. Once these addictions/disorders are fed, they become habit. Just like any other "junkie" people will do whatever is necessary to get their "fix." In the case I stated, it most definitely was the swinging that ended the marriage. Why? Because the mere act of swinging blurred the lines between acceptable vs. unacceptable behavior. It stretched an already overly thin boundary to it's breaking point to satisfy an addiction.
As far as the masturbation statement...
When one engages in sexual gratification with another person whom they do not have an emotional and/or strong physical connection, it quite simply is.... nothing more than the act of using someone elses body for the purposes of maturbation. There is no true intimacy with a stranger, therefore it becomes nothing short of a sexual release. Much like a teenage boy thumbing through a Playboy magazine and masturbating at the images he sees. It is a purely mechanical behavior with the end result being sexual gratification. The same may be said of people who prefer to watch their spouses engaging in sexual activities with someone else. If you believe that you and your husband are using each other's bodies to maturbate with, then maybe you don't share as strong a bond with each other as you claim. If there is no difference in the type of sexual satisfaction/intimacy that you share with your spouse than with the strangers that you meet online or at some swingers club.... you have just proved my point.
Addressing the issue of children again... is your need for sexual pleasure so much more important than your children? Scenario: A friend of your child's stumbles upon information that you thought you covered up and hid behind locked doors. This friend decides to share said information say, at school for instance. Before you know it, your child is being ridiculed by schoolmates because of your choices. Is that fair??? I know, right now you're thinking,"that would never happen!" Yes, it most certainly can. It most certainly has. This is probably the least of bad things that could happen.
Where my opinions are based from??? Well documented studies of sexual addiction, as well as the DSM (Diagnostics and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) The terms: sexual promiscuity/deviancy (including by not limited to multiple partners, orgies, etc.) impulsivity, obsessed with fantasies of unlimited sexual performance, etc. start to jump right off the page at you. It's all there in black and white.
....for people to engage in the swinging lifestyle, it is necessary to stretch boundaries beyond the norm of human conditioning.' I am sorry but, human conditioning sounds like a form of mass brainwashing to me. I would like to think that I stretch those boundries everyday in numerous ways! In the case I stated, it most definitely was the swinging that ended the marriage. Why? Because the mere act of swinging blurred the lines between acceptable vs. unacceptable behavior. Again, you miss the point....whether you are in a monogamous lifestyle or not , the married couple decides together what is acceptable or unacceptable. This marriage had problems going into swinging! You are very insistent that this wife had/has a mental health disorder...why would the husband abandon his wife when she needed his support the most? I sincerely hope that your friend, his fiancee, realizes that this guy hits the road when the going gets tough! It is ridiculous to suggest that those of us who choose to 'swing' have mental or personality disorders! Don't forget...We are your banker, doctor, next door neighbor, friend, teacher, fireman, etc... Surely you are a better judge of character than to let yourself be taken in by a Swinger! Are you saying that masturbation is wrong also? What exactly is your definition of normal sex, married or otherwise? I would think that each couple has boundaries and limits. I have heard of those who do not consider oral sex as normal,I know many others who think that is a big part of sex. Doesn't each couple define their boundaries? And if a couple reach a mutual decision to swing isn't that their business?Btw...girls masturbate too! You are correct that the intimacy between the 2 couples is not the same as experienced by each individual couple .The intimacy exists in a swinging situation for the exact reason it exists for that couple when they are alone....they truly love,trust and accept each other. Again...we both want this and we only do this together. I believe that there is a very clear distinction between love and sex and I never confuse the two! I never said there was no difference in the type of sexual satisfaction/intimacy that you share with your spouse than with the strangers that you meet on line or at some swingers club.... Again...my children are adults and no longer live at home.Your scenario is not plausible. And...yes my sex life is very important. You're not suggesting that I refrain from sex by anyones definition because there are children who may snoop? Many responsible parents have photos, home videos and toys.If a child's' friend found those items that child could also be ridiculed..... I repeat, a child needs to be taught respect for his parents privacy. My question stands about your opinions.... I am not a sex addict and I don't know anyone who is. I am not promiscuous ( I have had 5 sex partners in my 40 + years) or deviant . I am not sexually impulsive, I have never engaged in an orgy,and I am not obsessed with fantasies of unlimited sexual performance,etc... Most of all, there is a whole lot of erroneous information in black and white! Yeah...even in medical books!
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January 24, 2008, 2:49 pm PST
Quote From: dreamspeaker
To MrTruelove However people validate their sexual lusting its nothing more than creative self delusion at best. Most people were brought up to believe that sex is a gift to be shared between a husband and his wife. To share it with others devalues the act into something that has lost its beauty. It's no longer special. "...keep thee only unto him/her"? There's a reason that line is in there. I'm curious. Without being crude, can you tell me, do you, as the man, share yourself with other men? Or is it only other women? Does it bother you that he may please her more than you can? Do you ever fear that she may find herself yearning for him and not you? Is it possible that she may have these same fears about you? Are you sure? I know of a couple who tried a threesome with a female friend. Later, because of the implied freedom , the husband enjoyed an oral sex act with another female in the kiddy's wading pool, unknown to his wife, while she entertained friends in the living room. When he was caught in the act her anger genuinely surprised him. Their marriage went downhill after that. Hearts were broken, trust was lost, the kids lost their father, the family unit disintegrated. I can't say that this will happen to everyone who plays this game, (and it is a game) but the chance of keeping the trust alive in the marriage is not good. Once that line is crossed and either one has sex with someone else without the other partner's permission or knowledge, the marriage is over. And, that WILL happen sooner or later. The 'implied' sexual freedom is too hard to resist. No matter how good you think your marriage bond is now, under the surface lies a subconscious fear that 'she' or 'he' will never be able to satisfy the other's sexual needs. This opens up another can of worms that you will never again be able to put the lid on . As they say, "curiosity killed the cat". And, anyone curious enough to want to play this game should first consider if its worth losing the ones you love. There's also the dangers involved. What dangers you ask? It is well known that multiple partners increase a women's chances of getting cervical cancer. Also, there's the increased chances of STD's, not to mention the danger of 'romantic attachments' being formed which can lead to stalking or worse. You may think your relationship is on solid ground, (and, it may be) but what about the possibility of emotional illnesses in the people you engage in this game with? Can you guarantee their mental stability? A lack of emotional/mental well-being can and will endanger you or/and your wife? (Heaven forbid anything should happen to the children!!!) It has been estimated that 1 in 25 people is a sociopath/psychopath. These individuals have no conscience. They can blend into society and go unnoticed like a camelian. They will go to extreme lengths to get what they want, not caring who they hurt. That attractive blond, that muscular beefcake, both can make anyone lust after them. But, add mental illness and a fixation for the husband (or the wife) and you may wake one night to find muscle man looming over you as you sleep with malicious intent. Check out the info on this link to see if you may know a sociopathic person: http://www.takebackyourheart.com/ I believe poor Renee (THE FOCUS OF THIS SUBJECT) might be married to a sociopath/psychopath. Brent does not appear to feel the compassion necessary to insure a happy marriage and is only concerned for his own desires. Renee should seek self awareness to understand why she feels it necessary to forgo her own happiness for that of her selfish, self serving husband. Only then will she find the strength to stand up for herself. This long palaver was not meant to change your behavior. I doubt anything anyone says can do that. Not until you find out for yourself the hard way will the 'game' lose it's appeal.However, hopefully, there are others out there that may be thinking of playing this game without completely knowing the rules or considering the consequences. Perhaps now they will think twice before starting something that may ruin their lives. Be careful. Momentary pleasures may produce never ending nightmares. God Bless you and Enlighten you to a better way of loving. At first I thought this was funny. I was going to ask if you hide under your bed when you hear the door bell . As I read I realized that you are serious. You posting is like one big collection of all the misinformation available about swinging! Thanks for the laugh! |
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January 24, 2008, 3:33 pm PST
Quote From: vabtrfly I disagree with human conditioning, it may stretch boundaries beyond the norm of your social or religious conditioning
Exactly where did I say social or religious conditioning? I said human.
As a sexual being and I thank God for that, he could have made us like animals , only sexual at certain times or seasons. That is part of being human.
Having an isatiable appetite for sexual gratification is an animalistic behavior. It brings one down to an animal like state. When I say insatiable, I mean quite frankly, that your sexual appetitte can not be satisfied by your spouse which is WHY you choose the lifestyle. And for the record, there are many species of animal that mate for life, so your comparison is rudimentary at best. There are however, species of monkey that engage in sexual behaviors for anything but, procreation. Hmm....
We do not swing with anyone who is stressed to be there, why would we? We are there to have fun and sex.
Of course not. You find like minded people who are also sexually insatiable and you feed off of each other's wants.
Most of our close friends, the kind of friends that would help you bury the body type, have started within the context of swinging. We can be more open and honest with them about all that happens in our lives than we can be with "vanilla" friends, they are a lot less judgmental.
So what you're saying is that swingers basically have no boundaries??? Isn't that what I said??? "Help you hide the body types" as opposed to doing the right thing? How could other swingers be judgmental? They are afterall, engaged in the same behaviors as you, correct???
Go to any "vanilla" social event and watch the reaction to a sexy lady entering the room, some folks will almost shun her, others will almost drool, neither would happen at a swingers event. She would be allowed to be sexy and who she is.
This is a highly unlikely scenario for many reasons. Swingers are not lacking in jealousy, envy, or haughtiness. "Vanilla" folks don't have a market on those emotions. I have interviewed hundreds of people in the lifestyle (for a college thesis on human sexuality) and from what I've been told there is an enormous amount of jealousy, pettiness, envy, and separatism based on outward appearances. I mean think about it... would anyones real sexual fantasy involve a rotund, unattractive woman? Or a short, balding, unattractive man? I doubt it based on my research. As a matter of fact, I found that most swingers are either.... middle aged and less than average in appearance or young and totally lacking in maturity and experience. They often times engage in sex with people who they see as below themselves (whether that be physically, intellectually, or fianancially.) This from the horses mouth.
Vanilla is a term in the swing world to describe non-swingers and I won't go into what "pistachio" means LOL
Don't you mean un-evolved? It seems to me that there is a fair amount of judgment from your side as well. Now I understand...you have contributed to the erroneous information printed in black and white. I believe that your personal beliefs colored your perceptions during your 'interviews'. This is obvious by the way you argue with the positive personal experiences of swingers posted here.I could tell you how I feel about an event in my life only to have you tell me I am wrong! This is where you screwed up big time....I mean think about it... would anyones real sexual fantasy involve a rotund, unattractive woman? Or a short, balding, unattractive man? I doubt it based on my research. You are 100% wrong! There are many men who desire larger women. I think I have seen this on a Dr.Phil episode. I have seen many men on-line looking for Big Beautiful Women...so, yeah I believe there are real sexual fantasies involving them. This whole post is offensive, idiotic and just plain mean spirited! |
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January 24, 2008, 3:49 pm PST
Quote From: elflauta I am a single, bisexual man that has had sex with married men most of my life. There seems to be a new wave of men wanting to explore this type of secret fantasy life. We don't love or care about each other. We simply enjoy each others bodies and then we go home to our families and resume our lives. I know I have personally had the discussion about this being wrong with most of them, but they don't look at it as cheating because there are no emotions involved. We just meet up, have our little fun and go our separate ways until the next meeting. Woman certainly will never understand it, but believe me, there are a large number of married men that do this at parks, theaters, in cars and at their own homes. In prison or jail it's called, "gay for the stay". Then when they go home it's back to heterosexual relations. Just look around, keep your eyes open and you might just see someone you know having a little fun. Your not helping.... If your wife does not know, it is cheating. Your spouse is the person that you should share your life with, good and bad, honestly and truthfully. I am all for 'to each his own' but I think when your married it should be 'to each couple their own'.You left her out of this decision that affects her too. re-think it, Buddy. |
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