Messages By: kleesun

Thank you!  Maybe it's childish of me to feel like this, but I can't help but resent, as a "plain person", being represented by a guy who just got engaged to an ex-Playboy model.  I'm sure she's a lovely individual on the inside, too, but if she looked like me, he probably wouldn't have bothered to meet her in the first place.  I guess I should be more charitable--he would have met her but decided she was a good Platonic Friend.  I know Jay has done a lot of good things and I'm sure he's a very intelligent, generous, and well-meaning guy, but I don't think he was the right choice for this. 

I don't even think I'm that bad-looking.  I had a horrible ugly-duckling adolescence--too tall, big hips/thighs, acne, limp hair, awful clothes, thick glasses, you name it, I had it--so by comparison, I think I look GREAT.  Everyone thinks I'm smart, funny, trustworthy, sensible, blah blah blah, but nobody thinks I'm attractive.  I've been lucky in that I haven't been in employment situations where appearances are emphasized (beyond being clean and neat, of course), but I'm always passed over in other respects.  Obviously, I don't want to be treated like an object and I'm glad that men think well of me as a person, but I get tired of being that Platonic Friend.  (And don't tell me that I don't need a man--I DON'T need a man.  I like myself just fine as I am; I just wish somebody else liked me just fine as I am.) 

Personally, I thought this was patronizing.  He doesn't look plain, he looks creepy.  He looks like a guy in a weird disguise and I wouldn't have talked to him either (of course, I hate being accosted by strangers in malls for any reason, so he could have looked like George Clooney and I still would have walked away).  He looked sloppy and dirty, which isn't at all the same thing--I could spend a fortune on clothes and hours on my hair and I would still be plain.  Well-groomed but plain.  They should have done this two well-dressed people, one with a "fashionable" and one with an "unfashionable" body type, instead of with a fake slob. 

I don't have a husband to gripe at me about money, but as somebody who was recently a kid in school I have to reply to this: 

The man is a moron if he doesn't see the benefit of either a decent private school or a better neighborhood/better public school system over one with poor academics and a drug problem.  I attended the full range of school systems--from upper-middle class, well-respected ones all the way down to a school that occasionally had gang fights on the front lawn.  This is his SON--if he can do better by him, he should.  (Just because it's a private school doesn't mean it's the best--I've been to very good public schools, too, but you generally have to be in a better neighborhood to attend them). 

As far as the swimming goes--hello, the kid should learn to swim.  It's safer, and all kids need to be encouraged to be more active.  $5 a lesson is an absolutely ridiculous reason to make him give it up unless they are literally living hand-to-mouth (which is not the impression I get from the original post).  What is the kid supposed to do, sit in his room all day and stare at the wall?  Twenty years from now, will Dad spring for the Dr. Phil Weight Loss book to make up for all that physical activity that Jr. never learned to enjoy?   

Assuming they are making a reasonable income, these two either need serious marriage counseling, or he needs a shrink, or both.  While I agree that, obviously, parents shouldn't jeopardize the family's long-term financial security on frivolous things, I absolutely believe that children need interests, activities, and experiences outside of school.  I had interests in art, animals, and music that my school system could not support but that my parents did to the best of their ability, which not only life better for me, but greatly enhanced my school experience and, yes, eventually helped me get into a good college. 

Financially responsible is good, but it sounds like Dad has a bad case of "penny wise and pound foolish".  There's absolutely nothing wrong with Costco clothes--my family has always bought plain clothing and worn it into rags--but just because this woman wants to spend a little on her son doesn't mean she wants to spend it on empty material goods.  

Never mind that medical emergencies are NEVER the time or place to penny-pinch.  People DO die from asthma attacks (I know this and there aren't even any asthmatics in my family).  The guy needs to be taking care of his family--if he is able to, he needs to, Heaven forbid, pay a little more for better insurance or an insurance supplement.  If he doesn't feel appreciated, fine, they need to get some help, but that doesn't give him the right to endanger her life. 

I'm sure she wanted those boobs, but I'm sure he wanted them, too.  They're both in this together--which is the point of the show--and I'd say he's at least as bad at managing money as she is.  After all, the boat and the artwork are his purchases, not hers.  They both sound extremely selfish and immature, and I would say he sounds as spoiled as anybody.  A lot more SAHM's or part-time-working moms could make it on a budget if their SO's didn't make them pay for so many things that should be joint expenses. 

It sounds like your husband and you are on the same page in terms of money, which makes all the difference.  If these people were, they probably wouldn't be having the problems they are, or at least, they would be more manageable.  My mother worked occasionally when I was a kid but my father would never have thought to hold it over her head that he was the primary source of income, nor did he belittle her for not using her education--she has a master's and half a PhD--although if she had wanted to work, he would have been fine with that.  He has always helped out with housework.  Since she wanted to be home with us, he was damned glad he had a smart woman raising the kids. 

If you ask me, that husband was the spoiled one.  Nothing like wanting a pretty wife with big boobs to look at but not having to pay for her boring daily expenses. 

That's easy--stop buying her everything.  Start now. 

My only job was school, too, but I had summer jobs and that money was mine to buy what I wanted beyond absolute necessities.  When it was gone, it was gone.  I didn't drive until I was 21 because we couldn't afford the insurance.  I did not get a new car when I got my license.  I didn't even get a new-ish car.  I got a well-maintained but third-hand, 15-year-old station wagon and paid for all its gas, insurance, and maintenance.  It was frumpy but it was all mine, no strings attached.  I put some snotty bumper stickers on it and didn't care what anyone else thought. 

My parents paid my college tuition to a very good private college, although I had merit scholarships and loans, as well--we are not wealthy.  I worked about 12 hours a week in the dining hall at between $5.35 and $7.35 an hour (best-paying job on campus), scraping plates and mopping floors, which paid for all my books and supplies, personal necessities including clothes, shampoo, etc., and social life.  Mom and Dad helped pay for trips home at Christmas and spring break when campus was closed but anywhere else I wanted to go, I paid my own travel expenses.  I did have credit cards--one of my parents' for EMERGENCY USE ONLY (as in, the transmission dies and strands me on the highway, or I break a leg on the ice and end up in the ER--"emergency use" is not a late-night pizza run), and one of my own with a low limit that I paid off monthly.  There is no way my parents would ever have paid off a credit card for me.  I had $1400 in the bank when I graduated. 

I currently live at home for various reasons (I am getting ready to go back to school for a master's degree, and my mother has had some health problems and my dad could use another adult around--it works out better for everyone).  I pay rent, all my car expenses--I have since purchased a new [inexpensive] car but, since I was still living at home, my parents agreed to dock my rent a little so I could pay it off in two years--all my clothes, personal stuff, travel, any special groceries I want, pet expenses, and I will be paying my own tuition this time.  Yes, I do housework and run errands, too.   

I've never felt deprived.  I have plenty of nice things, hobbies, clothes, books, music, etc. 

If I didn't have the money, I didn't get it or I didn't do it.  Plain and simple.  Put her on an allowance and stick to your guns.  She'll gripe but she'll thank you in 10 years when she's not up to her eyeballs in debt. 

I should add that we often go on road trips instead of buying loads of Christmas gifts, we've never had cable TV (except for briefly when we lived near the mountains and couldn't get even regular news stations without it), never had a video-game system (Atari, Nintendo, etc.), do not buy designer clothes or replace everything seasonally, which I think is absolutely insane.  I don't believe any of us ever missed that stuff.  I can tell those teenage girls that Target sells T-shirts that are fun colors and fit really well, and are probably a whole lot cheaper than anything at the mall.  I put $250 a month in savings and will put more in as soon as I can afford it. 

My parents did spend money on us for our serious interests--my brother did Civil War reenacting for years and my parents helped him either buy or make what he needed (he is now getting a PhD in historical archaeology).  I ended up being something of an amateur folk-musicologist and they helped me get good (not extravagant) instruments, books, and recordings, all of which I have appreciated tremendously.  However, they also spent a lot of time on us instead of just pouring money in and hoping we'd turn out OK.   

I'm not a spouse so I don't have anyone to drive over the edge ;-) but, on a side note, I would like to see Dr. Phil do a show on Asperger's, period. 

I can imagine how hard it must be for spouses-of-Asperger's (having watched my mother manage my dad for so long) but please keep in mind that Asperger's is very hard on the Asperger's person, too, especially when they finally start to realize how different they are.  I'm 28 and have never been in a serious relationship.  I don't NEED a relationship--I like myself fine as I am--but I definitely feel like an alien.  The worst part is that it's not an illness so I can't just fix myself or psychoanalyze my way out.  We're not emotionally bankrupt at all, we just don't know how to tell you otherwise.  It's incredibly lonely.   

"I want to know what the rest of the world thinks.  Should my boyfriend & I get married for the sake of the family or is it okay to live as though we are married without taking the vows at the altar??? " 

And the difference would be . . . ? 

I, personally, am not in favor of having kids/more kids outside of marriage, but my life is not yours and I know you don't want somebody preaching to you.  Moral and religious arguments aside, be practical.  If the relationship needs help, it will need help whether or not it is recognized by law and/or your church (really, I guess the big issue here for me would be, why would you have more kids before you two have the relationship stabilized?).  From what you said, I wouldn't be inclined to get married at this point, but can you get him to talk to someone--counselor, clergy--to find out what it is that bothers him so much? 

If all else fails you at least need to make sure that you and your child have some rights to support if you and your boyfriend don't last.  Find out what your state laws are about common-law marriages.  I hope you DO last, if that's what you want, but please take care of yourself and your baby. 

Hunh? 

She didn't say anything about her own relationship (I don't think she mentioned her husband at all, or did I suddenly forget how to read?).  She was only quoting what she thought might be going through these kids' minds. 

No kidding.  He sounds like he was looking for an excuse to split.  She needs to call a lawyer (if he says he doesn't want to pay her alimony, my guess is he'll "forget" about child support after not very long, too).  Good for her for having plans for work and school.