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Messages By: tiggerst67

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October 29, 2008, 2:17 pm PDT

This is why so many have died

I cannot believe the first thing people immediately jump up and talk about God.  God doesn't make mistakes, you can't have surgery because HE made you this way.  I don't blame God.  However, I would like to address the people who say this, and follow their line of thinking.  So according to your line of thinking when a child is born with its heart on the outside of its body, God did that too.  What happens next in this scenario?  The child goes to surgery and the defect is repaired.  Gender dysphoria is NO DIFFERENT people, it just is a defect that you cannot see at birth.  I wish there was a non surgical solution to this problem, but currently there is not.  It is funny how so many people are so offended by transgendered people who want nothing more than to be comfortable with who they are, on the inside and the outside, and be like everyone else.  People are afraid of transgendered people, and really there is no reason to be afraid.  Just take a moment and imagine yourself in their shoes.  Being transgendered is not a choice.  I do not advocate giving a child hormones prior to puberty, I do advocate to parents that if you think your child is transgendered, at the very least let them know you are there for them, and that you love them no matter what, even if you do not agree.

 
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October 29, 2008, 2:38 pm PDT

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: five4oldmini

As I watched the show I saw and heard something as the little boy spoke. I agree that his parents shouldn't condone his gender confusion.  I am a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and was raised in a church that taught spiritual warfare.  I believe the voices that the little boy has heard over the years are real, and they have convinced him that God made a mistake.  (which God can't do)  These are lying spirits combined with other physical and psychological occurrences that are effecting/afflicting our children.  In situations like these you have to treat the physical, mental, and spiritual sides of the individual.

The child didn't have gender confusion.  SHE knows who SHE is.  So a child with a physical birth defect that is evident at birth, like cleft palate for example should just STAY that way because they were born that way?  The child should be doomed to a life of having trouble eating, speaking, being made fun of every day because they were born that way??? Of course not, you would probably take up a church collection to help the parents PAY for the corrective surgery, and be empathetic to the parents and child for what they are going through.  You would pray with them while the child was in surgery that God would grant a speedy recovery, you would probably hold the childs' hand, and say a little prayer before you left the hospital. I got news for you, gender dysphoria is no different, you just can't SEE it at birth!  A lot of these kids grow up feeling alone and scared, afraid to tell anyone, most die because they just cannot live in that level of stress daily anymore.  Those who do live and have surgery risk losing everything in their lives.  Many are no longer welcome at their church, or their family's home, and lose friends.  There are no fund raisers for money for surgery (which is needed since insurance DOES NOT cover any expenses), no one waiting in the waiting room, no clergy holding their hands, no prayers for health and a speedy recovery.  Some of us are lucky enough to have ONE person who loves us, and pray for us and hold our hand.  If you remember NOTHING else I've said, remember that NO ONE chooses this path.  It is not a choice.

 
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October 29, 2008, 3:24 pm PDT

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: cutiebun48

   

     Dr.Phil i totally disagree with the dr.  If God wanted to be a boy or a girl he would have created them that

way.

 

.  Those parents are so wrong to bring up a child that way.  That is not normal.  The brain has nothing to do with want you want to be.  God does not MISTAKES

What is normal?  Define normal.  Completely define it. I bet there are FEW who would fit into your category of normal.  I would like for you to explain all the cleft palates, limb deformity, congenital heart defects, are they spontaeous generation?  I have a feeling your reply might be that it is nature, not God.   What is the difference between all the birth defects I just listed and gender dysphoria? One thing....gender dysphoria is not immediately evident at birth, and is not recognized as a physical defect, but it should be. 

 
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October 29, 2008, 3:32 pm PDT

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: blacktop67

I'm always amazed at how flipant the general public is regarding God.  He's good to have around in case of an emergency or death of a loved one, but outside of that He needs to take a step back because we think we have it under control.  Are we a nation of people who truly don't get how much our very existance is because of Him?  There is absolutely no truth in the comment that God in gender-blind - it doesn't even make sense to have typed that.  The Bible is very specific on this topic.  There is also no truth in the numerous comments that this is a disease - we are so quick to play the blame game now - it's my parents fault, it's my bosses fault, it's my siblings fault, maybe it's your fault!!  Parents, it's ok for your child to be "unhappy" with you, it's called PARENTING - just because they want to do it, get it, be it, or buy it doesn't mean it's ok or right.  There are NO MISTAKES made by God.  If He made you a boy, grow up to be a man.  If He made you a girl, grow up to be a woman.  By the way, there's a book that'sbeen on the best-seller list for years.  It's called 'The Holy Bible', some of you who THINK it's ok to let your kids change their gender because it's a mistake of nature need to read it.  It's a truly "heavenly" experience!!  Then take your family to church and join in the fun and see where God can lead you and see what blessings He has in store for each of you when you join in His will instead of fighting Him and pleasing satan.  I feel for those who leave this world believing that God isn't real - you'll figure it out - but it will be too late!!!
Thank God that surgeons don't think like you, or there would still be blue babies dying all over the world every day.  Children with cleft palates would be living in daily misery, not able to eat or speak properly.  These are birth defects.  I do not believe God made them like that, I believe that it is a fact of nature.  Transgender dysphoria is a birth defect too, it just isnt as obvious.  Think about it.
 
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October 29, 2008, 8:45 pm PDT

Not sure where to start on this reply

Quote From: renschi

Children are not born gay or lesbian, they are made that way by people and that is so sad for everybody involved.  Some one close to the family circle hurt that child emotionally on a very young age. Without sometimes parents knowing it and without professional help when needed. It is an emotionally block that this children have to help them cope with a much delicate and painful experience. (most of the time without realizing  themselves)

Parents, please just love your child and accept him or her the way they want to be, reject the lifestyle (sin) not the child.

RW



I 'll keep it simple for you.  You need to do some serious research on this subject.  When you have, then come back and post again.  You are either misinformed, or uninformed, I don't know which.  I know quite a lot of people, gay and straight who have had bad childhoods, yet it did not have any effect on their sexual orientation.  You used the word lifestyle, as if it involved making a conscious choice.  Did you decide at a young age to be heterosexual?  Or did you just wake up one morning and decide to try it and see if it took?  If you look at it from that perspective, your comment loses its luster a bit.  By the way, the topic today had nothing to do with being gay or lesbian.  That would be an entirely different show.  This show was about children with gender identity disorder.   
 
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October 29, 2008, 11:43 pm PDT

ACTUALLY THERE IS A TEST

Quote From: plainjanedoe

Just another, although rather extreme, case of parents wanting their kids to get everything they want instead of teaching them that sometimes they don't get what they want.  I can't believe that steroids are illegal for athletes (who feel and believe that they are the best of the best), and only allow them to realize that dream, but doctors can give hormones to kids to make them into something they are NOT physically.  I wanted to be a boy when I was a child.  I wanted it so bad because I was raised with the belief system that boys could grow up to be someone and do things and girls could grow up to get married and have children.  I was not told that I was confused, nor was I.  I simply wanted to be what I was not.  I also wanted blue eyes and blonde hair, which is possible nowadays, but when I grew up I learned instead to accept what I am.  So my hair remains dark and my eyes remain hazel, and I remain a female, although growing hair on my chin and lips.

If drugs can be given to people to enhance the qualities of a gender they are not physically, why can't drugs be given to them to enhance what they are physically.  Wouldn't that straighten things out?  (And save a lot of emotional distress for them (and their families/parents) in the long run?)  Hormones are really potent chemicals; ask any menopausal woman.  If they can make a boy feel/look more like a girl, then it would seem they could certainly make a boy feel/look more like a boy.  What floors me is that someone would feel like a man with a constructed fake penis or a woman with a fake uterus.  A penis does not a man make.

How is the desire or belief that a person is a gender other than what he/she is physically any different than other desires or beliefs that any child has?  My daughter cried when she found out that she was going to be short.  It prevented her from one of her lifelong dreams of becoming an Air Force Pilot.   I did not go out and seek a doctor to have her legs lengthened (which is possible) in order to help her attain what she dreamed she would be since she was since a child.  I did help her to see that there were other options in life. 

If my kid wants to pull the wings off of flies because it is interesting, should I provide him/her with flies?  If my kid wants to experiement with drugs or alcohol to attain highs (because if feels good), should I allow that?  If my kid thinks he's Napoleon and it doesn't hurt anyone, should I encourage him/her in that belief?  If my kid thinks he/she is Dr. Phil, should I shave his/her head and allow him/her to go around in a suit and a tie giving advice to people? 

To my understanding, psychotherapy has as its goal--at least cognitive therapy--having a patient alter his thought patterns so that they are more positive in allowing that patient to live happily.  Actions promoting transgender (a word that should be incomprehensible to 3 or 5 year olds, or even 8 year olds unless they have been exposed to a lot more than they should be) would seem to do the exact opposite unless the child lives in a bubble.

As far as nurture is concerned, perhaps part of the confusion is caused by parents who draw firm lines about what little girls and little boys "have" to do. The position:  "If you are a little boy then you can't comb Barbie's hair" may lead to the conclusion in a little boy's brain:  "If I comb Barbie's hair then I am a little girl."  That is a logic error.  If you are a little boy and you comb Barbie's hair, it may be a little wierd, but it doesn't make you a little girl.

As to the doctor with the theory that there is a brain imprint as to gender which is independent of the physical realtiy, how was that determined or measured?  Does it show up in a scan?   I get the impression that anecdotal "evidence" by laymen is just talk, but anecdotal "evidence" by psychiatrists becomes scientific proof.  There are rules about conducting research.  What research supports this theory?

Lord, grant me the serenity to recognize those things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

There is a test that can identify the male to female.  It has been around for twenty years.  There has been no identifier for the female to male found, but then there isnt much going on research-wise, because there is no money in it. 

You made it sound like being transgendered is a choice.  I'm tired of people saying or inferring that it is a choice.  No one chooses to risk losing everything in their life, family and friends, chooses to take pills that do damage to every internal organ and must be taken for life.  No one chooses to be strapped to a table multiple times and undergo dangerous surgical procedures which cause pain over and over.  No one chooses to face daily ridicule and teasing because they are different.  No one chooses to have to hide who they are for YEARS out of fear, knowing the hate they will face. 

Would it validate any of this for you if someone discovered that you could SEE this on a CT scan, or an MRI?  Would that make any difference at all?  I doubt it.  I went through living hell for 37 years, living with daily stress that you could not even begin to imagine.  I went through 6 surgeries, almost died after one, had complications, and spent months recovering.  What was I thinking all this time?  I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.  I am now happily married, I have a great job, I am a happier person.  I am now complete.  It isnt just the physical changes that made me like I am today.  I was always this guy, but no one else knew me.  When  you made the remark about the fake penis and fake uterus that floored me.  You made it clear that you are missing the whole point.  Here's the point: I ALWAYS felt male, YEARS before I got the surgery.  As for hormones, they wouldn't change anyones mind, giving someone more hormones would not solve the problem, it would just make the person commit suicide sooner.  Puberty is the worst time for a transgendered person.  It is the time when the body REALLY starts betraying the mind, when the secondary sexual characteristics show up.  As for your quote at the bottom of the serenity prayer, Thank God for the surgeons and nurses who help us to change the things we can!

 
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November 3, 2008, 3:39 am PST

I hope this helps you understand

Quote From: freakycat125

I find so many aspects of this subject absolutely confusing and illogical. I really have to admit I do not understand... despite the fact I have read about, and even know homosexual and transgender people. I hope no one will be offended if I ask a few questions.

 

1. What do clothes have to do with Gender? I mean clothing is cultural, and it varies in different countries and through out history. The early Roman men wore short skirt like garments... and sometimes the Greeks wore nothing at all... I am certain Jesus didn't own a pair of pants, because they weren't invented yet in his day. Bras, Pants, and underwear are basically modern inventions. Therefore it could not be a biological, instinctive or inborn need for someone male or female to wear women's underwear. Fruther natural born women do not wear dresses very often at all, Most women don't wear nearly as much make-up, or worry about their hair and clothing as much as trans gender people. Honestly most women don't dress that differently from men. So why is clothing so much of an issue with these confused gender people?

 

2. What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one?

 

3. Why do interests, toys and hobbies have to be gender specific? Plenty of little girls like to climb trees, and play with toy trucks. I remember in kindergarten they made the little girls play with dolls and the boys play with trucks. I used to take trucks away from little boys every time the teacher left the room, cause dolls got boring after a while. I don't think that made me a guy... I think assuming gender is based in toy preference makes any sense at all. Fruther I still think trading recipies, and a lot of other feme activities are boring. I don't think that makes me a guy either, just a woman who would rather be in a room full of men listening to them talk, than in a room full of women listening to them talk. On the other hand, some men like being around mostly women, and listening to them talk about clothes, and hair. Some men like to cook. That doesn't make them gay, or women... it might just  mean they like women a lot? Could I be right on this? How are toys and hobbies gender related anyway? People enjoy what they enjoy. Why can't people do whatever they want to do regardless of gender?  

 

4. What is wrong with just letting people wear what they want, and play with whatever toys they want, and just not attaching a gender to it? Trying to pass for the opposite sex is another matter, but if men just think our clothing is more intersting, why not make silk shirts in pastel colors for men, Women already enjoy the right to wear jeans, and slacks. Why not just have clothes, instead of women's clothes and men's clothes?

 

5. I've heard gender confused men say they felt like women... but how do they know what it feels like to be a woman in the first place. I actually asked a few, who described that feeling to me, and I can honestly say, I never felt that way in my life. I asked around to my female friends, and they don't feel that way either. It seems to me that women take their gender for granted, They don't go around singing, "I feel pretty." If  someone was to ask me how it feels to be a woman, I'd probably describe the pain of minstral cramps,  cause I figure that is the only thing I or any other woman feels that is any different from what a man feels.

 

6. If a person had a transgender operation, what are the odds of a straight, normal, hetherosexual person wanting to date them or marry them? How could they tell people they date that they are transexual without getting gay bashed? Is it really fair for them to try to pass as women, and pick up men, when in fact most men will only be repulsed when they find out, and it might even cause them to doubt their own masculinity?

 

7. Don't you think that all this talk about gay and transgender on TV causes more and more people to become gender confused? I have heard people say that young people need to consider their sexual preference... in my day we didnt' consider anything of the sort. It was just assumed, but a small precentage of people were still gay. I think if someone is gay they would know it without thought or discussion.

 

8. Being molested or raped brings on a lot of confusing, self loathing, and general distress. Is there any link between having gay sex, whether willingly or unwillingly before the age of concent, and being gender confused? Couldn't being forced or coerced into gay sex make a man think he is gay or transgender?

 

Again I am not trying to be offensive, these are just things I wonder about, and am afraid to ask people I know...could anyone explain any of this to me? 

There was no offense taken in anything you asked.  I was very glad to see someone who was genuinely interested and I have always answered peoples' questions as honestly and completely as I can.  I believe most people are inherently good, and if they only understood more about this, the world would be just a little easier for transgendered people to live in.  I personally believe that gender dysphoria is like a birth defect, it is just one you cannot see at birth.  That is how I look at it anyway.  If you have any further questions, I would be glad to answer any that I can, as best I can.  There are some here I am sure someone else would be better to answer than me, I tried to explain all of them the best I could.

 

1. The clothing issue.  Part of the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care REQUIRE those seeking gender reassignment surgery to dress in the gender they identify with.  In order to comply, most people pre-surgery dress in I guess what you would call extreme.  The male to female would have to wear a lot of makeup, a dress is more covering and less revealing of traits they currently have; the female to male would usually wear looser clothing, and very masculine.  This is an effort to "fit in" and be accepted by the general public.  The male to female is usually more concerned with hair and makeup, I think perhaps like other females, they want to look nice.  Imagine having to cover a 5 o'clock shadow (this is pre surgery, when the old hormones are still working) You have to keep in mind the basic premise of gender dysphoria.  Transsexuals are already male or already female in their minds all their lives, regardless of having surgery.  It is about body image.  Imagine how confusing it would be for you if you had your female mind and a male body.  Your brain is telling you one thing, the mirror tells you another.

 

2.  This goes back to my explanation of body image and the mind.   There is a difference between sexual preference and gender dysphoria.  The two are in no way connected.  Imagine by some crazy twilight zone episode you woke up tomorrow as a man, but you had the exact same mind you have now.  Your mind would have remained unchanged.  When you first woke up, you would feel the same, but imagine what would happen when you looked in the mirror!  You would know who you were in your mind, but the whole world would see a man.  Gender is so much a part of who we are, not just what is displayed to the world.

 

3.  I see a lot of kids having to play with certain toys, I don't think that is right.  All kids are curious, they may just pick up a toy to see what it is all about, why do the girls like this doll so much, why do the boys like this truck?  There may be something silly about the toy they like, maybe the color.  I don't think adults should yank the toy away and tel them not to play with it, its an opposite gender toy.   Talk about confusing a kid!  I don't think toy preferences have much to do with it on their own, it takes other behaviors along with it.  I knew a lot of girls who loved climbing trees and getting dirty.  There is nothing wrong with that.  If a boy takes an interest in cooking in the kitchen, there is nothing wrong with that either.  Kids, remember are just small adults, and they have a lot of different interests.

 

4.  I think the gender roles assigned by society have stayed around so much because it is what their parents did.  No other reason but that.  I am sure a lot of people would like to wear clothing different from what they wear, but society dictates what and how we do things.  Some people who are not secure in their sexuality usually complain the loudest.  That does not apply to everyone, for some it is simply their own upbringing.

 

5. That one I have trouble answering, I have no idea what it feels like to be a woman.  I bet if you asked ten women what it feels like to be a woman you'd get ten different answers.  The same for men.  It is difficult to articulate, for the transgendered it is more of a feeling of not belonging to the body you are in.  It is a difficult question, some peoples' first thought is "I don't know, I've just always been like this."

 

6.  I can only speak from personal experience on this one.  I was apprehensive to say the least.  I was even told that no one would EVER love me after surgery.   That turned out to not be true.  I am married, very happily, and have been for years.  It is a very scary thing to tell someone you like and risk being bashed, abandoned, or made to feel like you aren't a person at all.  I told the truth right after I met my wife.  At that point we were friends, not dating yet.  We had a very long talk, I answered a lot of questions, and in the end she accepted me for who I am.  I was still the same person sitting across the table from her I had been five minutes ago, and she realized that.  All I can say to the guys out there, if you find out you are interested in a girl and she has had the surgery, remember she is the same person she always has been, more so now.  You should feel just like you do when any woman shows interest in you, be flattered, take that ego boost.  It does not make you less of a man in any way, she is a woman.  The only difference between her and a female-born woman is she cannot have children, that is all.

 

7.  I agree with you on this one.  People don't think... "should I be gay or straight?"  You never sit down and think about it, you just ARE.  I think the exposure on tv will not cause confusion, I think it will hopefully help someone out there who think they are the ONLY one realize they are not.  I thought that for a long time, I had no idea what to do, I just KNEW I was different.  I was afraid to talk about it to anyone.  I didn't even know what it was called until I was in my early twenties.  I hope it will prevent suicides among transgender teens, and attacks on transgender teens by providing information to the public that is not something to fear or loathe.  It is a medical condition.

 

8.  I have never read any correlation between molestation or rape and gender dysphoria in any medical research.  Most people with gender dysphoria KNOW by the age of six or so.  It is something so ingrained in your mental process, I don't think traumatic events in childhood have any effect on it.  Most surgery centers that perform gender reassignment surgery follow the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care, which includes many hours of psychiatric evaluation, living and dressing in the desired gender for at least a year, and passing a multitude of mental evaluation tests.  If the candidate passes all this, it then takes a letter of recommendation from two psychiatrists specially trained to evaluate gender dysphoria before surgery can be performed.  This is to insure that a candidate is not suffering from something else and causing these feelings falsely.  A lot of people are self-loathing without such a traumatic event.

 

I hope this helps clear the confusion, and like I said before, any more questions, just ask! 

 

 

 
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November 3, 2008, 3:59 am PST

Well Put!!

Quote From: iyfnewyorker

It's really frightening to me how many people in the 21st century believe in Satan.  Anything that you don't understand, "Satan did it." Come on. Also I can't believe Dr. Phil had the gaul to have that guy from Focus on the Family on the show.

At any rate, the scientific consensus is that what causes somebody to be transgender is that their brain develops into one gender, the body another. So when somebody says that they are in the wrong body, it is literally true! And even if it weren't... even if it were a choice... why does it matter? The person isn't hurting anyone! Stop worrying about how other people are living their lives and live your own!
What a great comment!  I'm glad I was not the only one offended by the Focus on the Family Guy.  Having him talk on this show topic is as relevant as me trying to talk about being on the sinking Titanic as if I had been there!
 
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November 3, 2008, 4:50 am PST

CONGRATS MICHELLE!

Quote From: x15gal

Yes, it is because of the ridicule and violence heaped on those who are different that drives so many people, whether transgender, gay, or anything different from the "norm," to suicide. Forcing a transgender person to be "happy" in their birth gender is a literal death sentence for so many. It is estimated that over 50 percent of transgender people have attempted (and all too many succeed) suicide. And since so many transgender kids (and adults) will hide this from everyone, these rates may actually be higher. I would not be here writing this tonight if not for the intervention of my spouse. I too would be a statistic, and one which no one probably would have known the true reason. It was only after this that I truly understood even within myself that I had to make the attempt to transition. The way I finally figured it out was that if I failed in this transition then I could always kill myself later. Instead, I found the true love of my spouse (who has stayed with me), my family, and almost all of my friends. I found out for the first time in my life what happiness actually is, and yet it took decades of suffering and almost ending it all to get to that point.

It is all you people who believe that you know better than those who are actually living this condition, that destroy so many lives. Stop foisting your morality and concepts onto us, when there is no way for you to understand what this is without being inside our head. At least try to listen and understand as much as possible, and do not ignore the person themselves. That is the way it is with these kids. They must not be ignored. More lives will be lost if you do.

Luckily I happen to live in California, a state that has full trangender protections under the law. Hopefully that will continue after Tuesday's election, where it is fervently hoped that once and for all it will be possible for any couple who love one another may be together with all the full and legal rights and privelages that entails. I sincerely hope that the religious dogma of hatred and discrimination will not hold sway on that day.

And on a very proud personal note, just today I finally received the final confirmation of who I am in the mail as the state just issued me my proper birth certificate reflecting my proper name and proper gender. My old certificate no longer exists and I am finally a whole and complete person. This was a day I never believed in all my wildest dreams I would ever live to see. Let everyone have that same happiness in their lives. Don't destroy more people just because you might think it is the right way. We are whole and complete people, not some demon or monster as so many of you might like to believe.

Michelle

Very well said!  I am very happy for you, and wish you all the best.  I hope you have a long, happy and content life.

 
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November 3, 2008, 5:22 am PST

I hope you come back and read this

Quote From: zookeeper1

These are physical handicaps.  They did not choose to have no arms or legs or a crooked back or spine.  A person that is transgender or transexual chooses to be that way.
NO ONE chooses to be transgendered.  I certainly did not choose to pay thousands of dollars after years of saving up money to spend thousands of hours completing the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care.  I did not choose to lose contact with SOME members of my own family who would not even listen to my explanation, or even visit me after surgery.  They would have seen someone finally comfortable with who they are.  Some of my family I am closer to now, I did not lose them all.  I also gained a lot of friends during this process and learned a lot of the struggles of others in my situation.  I did not choose to have several very painful surgeries, and almost die once (however I did absolutely REFUSE to die after all that).  No one would go through all that, suffer repeatedly, some with no support from anyone, or risk beatings and possible death.  Did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual?  Did you choose your eye color, hair color?  It is the SAME thing!  Just because this is treated by society and sadly still the medical field does not make it less a type of birth defect   You choose what you eat, what type house you live in, what car you drive, not to be gender dysphoric! 
 

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