Messages By: tulseyjoe

Oh, same-gender relationships, aka homosexual relationships, are quite common in the animal world. In the animal kingdom, there are species which have heterosexuals, bisexuals, and homosexuals.  

If the person who wrote the above quote were willing to do some educational research, either online or at a local large public library, he or she would find quite a bit about homosexuality and homosexuals in various species of animals, birds, mammals, and even animals like lizards. In fact, there is one species of a lizard in which there are no males at all. I saw that on a PBS Nature show.  

The Whole Bible is NOT God's Word (aka the Word of God). If it were, the word's of the Devil and Humans would not even be in it. Lot's of times, ignorant people read something from the Bible, without even understanding the context and claim, "Since it is in the Bible, God said it!"  

In fact, the author called "John" refers to Jesus the Christ as the Word of God. For believers in Jesus the Christ, aka "Christians" since 327 AD, there was no NEW TESTAMENT officially until 397 AD. That was 300 years AFTER the book of Revelation was written. And it was the idea of a supposely converted Emperor, Constantine, that a Bible be created and that a creed be created. It took over 60 years before those so-called "Early Church Fathers" could make up their minds as to what should be in a Bible. Some of the very works that are mentioned in the accepted Books were rejected by those "Fathers" because they did not agree with the Eastern Orthodox's doctrines.  

I was raised in the very same way that my brothers and sisters were. While my late older brother was sexually active with guys until he was in his early 20s and got married at age 24, neither my younger brother nor my two sisters, one older than me and the other younger, is homosexual in their sexual orientation.  

When we played indoors as children growing up, we boys often played with our sisters and their dolls, too. 

But, when we played outdoors, our sisters played with our cars and trucks, and other supposedly "boy's toys" right along with us.  

Oh, I quit "organized religion" a long time ago. "Religion" in proper explanation is a set of rules humans, one or more, made up as to how one is supposed to live. But, salvation and spirituality in Jesus the Christ is living according how the Holy Spirit tells you how to live your own life.  

Spirituality has to do with one's attitude toward one's higher power, whether on the inside or above, towards one's environment, towards others around one and one's attitude towards one's own self.  

My parents nor any other human being is the cause of my sexual orientation being exclusively homosexual. I tried to date women and even hoped to marry one to supposedly make myself "spiritually complete" as a person according to what was taught in the churches I attended during the first 40 years of my life. 

But, I became complete spiritually when I accepted Jesus into my heart when I was 8 years old and I did that by my own choice. My parents were both Believers, aka "Christians" in Jesus and did not demand that we believe like they did. In fact, they taught us to study the Bible on our own outside of our daily family Bible study and prayer times and outside of going to church services.  

One's sexual orientation, especially for men, is determined by toward whom and where in his own body he experiences physiological sexual attraction ("PSA") sensations. "Physiological" means 'in the person's body" and not in the brain.  

For NORMAL men or boys even, they experience those physiological sexual attraction sensations below-the-waist, behind-the-pubic-bone, in-the-area-of-the-prostate when another person is in the immediate area and his body is telling him that other person might be sexually compatible. If the "PSA" is directed to a woman or girl close by, he is experiencing a heterosexual sexual attraction. 

If the PSA is directed toward another man (or another boy for minors), he is experiencing a homosexual sexual attraction. 

So, for those who experience only opposite gender PSAs, they are exclusively heterosexual in their sexual orientation. 

And for those who experience only same gender PSAs, they are exclusively homosexual in their sexual orientation. 

Those who experience PSAs to both genders are definitely bisexual in their sexual orientation. One can experience only one PSA toward a member of the opposite sex while all the rest of them are toward the same sex and still be a bisexual.  

Now, there are people who are addicted to a variety of pornography and do get sexually aroused by it and that has no connection with sexual orientation. Addiction of this type occurs in the Brain, not in the body. Men can like homosexual pornography but yet be turned off with the idea of have same-gender sexual activity.  

Oh, members of this message board forum should be paying attention that Dr. Phil also is a Believer in Jesus the Christ. But, sometimes, I think that he should not be using non-Christ-like expressions when he talks, such as "What in the hell were you thinking?" And using the word "ass" when referring to someone's behind.  

"Pedophilia" which should be called "pederastia" when refering to sexual activity with minor-age children, boys or girls, has absolutely no connection with homosexuality.  

Literally speaking, the Greek word "pedophilia" means "normal human love/affection for boys who have not yet reached puberty." The word itself originally had no connection with sexual activity. The "ped" part of the word is from "pedo" for "boy" younger than an adolescent. An "ephebos" is a male adolescent.  

"Pederastia" literally sexual activity with pre-adolescent boys of even sexual activity of those boys with each other, has been replaced, erroneously by the word "pedophilia." So for the sake of this discussion thread, I will use pedophilia, too. 

It has been federally documented that 95 per cent of all pedophilia cases pertain to males who are exclusively heterosexual in their self-identification and are/were in relationship with women, either their wives or girlfriends. The gender of the child, either boy or girl, really makes no difference to a pedophile. It is just which is more available to the person. 

2.5 per cent of those pedofiles in that documentation were women and even then, most of them were in relationship with men. In the Tulsa, OK newsmedia, almost every case of an adult woman having sexual activity with a minor has the woman self-identified as a heterosexual. And, in the majority of them, the woman has a man involved in the sexual abuse, too.  

Now the remaining 2.5 per cent are homosexuals, but, in those cases the majority of time, the man who had sexual activity with boys was mentally ill and just though he was the same age as those boys, because mentally speaking he was that immature. 

Dr. Phil is in error when he uses the homophobic expression "gay lifestyle." There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. True, there are people who are curious about same-gender sexual activity; and those people on internet message boards, such as on MSN, AOL, Yahoo, etc, refer to themselves as "bi-curious," when their sexual orientation is exclusively heterosexual or exclusively homosexual.  

However, he is quite correct in that sexual orientation is inherited. Empirical evidence has proved that. "Empirical" refers to the fact that millions of people have told thousands of licensed and certified mental health professionals (psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, counselors, etc.) that they knew that they were different sexually speaking even before they reached puberty. I am not speaking in hyperbole here in regard to those numbers; all one has to do is go to a large library and look at all of the books written by those professionals whose practices are all over the USA and those professionals deal with human sexuality issuses and sexual orientation. 

One cannot unlearn a sexual orientation: but, I had a private internet correspondence on America Online, aka AOL, with a man who claimed to be an ex-homosexual. He had posted in an AOL Christian Message Bulletin Board (MBB) that he was no longer "gay." So, I asked him privately to tell me how he became that way. 

He said that he had "Christian" friends and church members agreeing in prayer with him asking in faith that he would no longer experience physiological sexual attractions toward men anymore.  

He got frustrated that God did not change him and also felt that his so-called, well-meaning friends might not think he was having enough faith. So, he literally took matters into his own hands. He took Jesus' (theoretical) command literally about "if one of your eyes offends you, pluck it out, or if your hand offends you, cut it off." 

So, what did he admit to doing? He tried to cut off his penis and in doing so, he just mutilated it and damaged his scrotum and both testicles. And, because of what he did, he had to have a surgeon remove all of his external sex organs.  

So, I asked him, "Now that you have no male genitals, do you now experience physiological sexual atttraction sensations toward women exclusively now, or do you still experience them only toward men?" 

He replied, "Neither. I no longer experience physiological sexual attractions at all."  

I told him that what he did was destroy what God had created and he should advise others not to do what he did. Since God created his sexuality, which was a part of his sexual orientation, he should not have tried to change that. I also said he needed to change his testimony; because, his actual relationship with the LORD did not change. But, if he had not yet ask God and Jesus, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to forgive him for damaging God's property, he should do so.  

For some odd reason, when the King James Version Bible translators encountered the Greek word "pneuma' (spirit) modified by the adjective "hagio" (holy), they did not translate "pneuma" as "Spirit" but as "Ghost." Out of 97 times where the word "ghost" appears in the KJV New Testament, only six of them have to do with a human spirit and each case, the person dies. But, besides those 97 times that "pneuma" appears, there are 253 more times it shows up.  

We don't speak Jacobean (King James English) as a country anymore. There is no such thing as a "Metropolitian Gay Church." The Universal Fellowship of the Metropolitan Community Church, aka MCC, is NOT a "gay church." It is a Christian Church denomination which does not limit its membership nor it leaders to those of homosexual orientation. MCC has ordained ministers and pastors who are exclusively heterosexual in their sexual orientation.  

People who are ignorant about the history of how the Bible came to be a collection of writings covering several hundred years, with the writings therein not being written after 95 AD, and the fact that those books for the New Testament were not finally put into a collection with the books of the OT Testament and accepted as official canon until 397 AD. Notice that three hundred and two years elapsed from 95 AD when Revelation was written and all of those books which also included the Apocrapha as well as what is in English version Bibles printed in America. The Original King James Version of the Bible had the very same books that the Roman Catholic Bible had and still has. All KJV Bibles printed in United Kingdom Countries still have the same number of books as the original KJV had.  

The person who wrote what is in the quote to which I am responding is committing the sin of judging people and he or she is accusing the other person of supposedly unconfessed sin.  

Here are a few questions for  sbministri : Did you, sir, have physiological sexual attraction sensations down inside your lower body, even when you were not even thinking about sex, and those feelings directed at other men in the immediate vicinity? 

Did you, sir, have physiological sexual attraction sensations down inside your lower body, even when you were not even thinking about sex, and those feelings directed at women in the immediate vicinity during the same time period? 

If you answer "yes" to both of those questions, you were not a homosexual nor a heterosexual. But, in experiencing physiological sexual attractions to both genders, you had to be bisexual in your sexual orientation. 

Now to the next question if it was "yes" to the first question and "no' to the second question: 

You wrote that you are now a heterosexual man; so, have all of the physiological sexual attractions toward other men stopped? Are all of your physiological sexual attractions directed at women only now?  

If you no longer experience those kinds of sexual attractions toward men and they are only directed toward women, then you can rightly claim that you are now exclusively heterosexual in your sexual orientation.  

In my study of the ex-gay/ex-homosexual/sexual-change-ministry of the umbrella group, "Exodus International, since the latter 1970s, and groups connected with it, as well as the homophobic pseudo-psychology outfit called "NARTH, I have yet to encounter a so-called testimony of anyone whose sexual orientation has been changed, neither by professionals nor by God Himself. Every one of those 100s of testimonies, officially sanctioned by Exodus International, that I have read have a loophole in them which either proves that the person giving the testimony was never exclusively homosexual in the first place, or he or she was either heterosexual looking for love in the wrong places or was just bisexual to begin with . . . or is still one who is a homosexual attempting to fool others that he or she is heterosexual.  

Sir, you do contradict yourself. In regard to the mountains of research supposedly proving that homosexuality develops over a period of time, from what I know as a person who has had a lot of classes in psychology and counseling and as a person who has done professional style educational research on those research studies and their sources, the people making those claims have been discredited and shown that their reports are false. Many of those whom the religious right put up as "experts" in psychology and psychiatry regarding sexual orientation have been discredited by both mental health professional organizations which have APA as their initials. 

I used to do online correspondence with an ordained United Methodist Minister, now retired, who married the only woman toward whom he ever experienced a physiological sexual attraction. He said that he had been in the presence of very attractive women before he met his wife and of course saw lots of women who were visually sexually attractive during his adult life. But, he never experienced a physiological sexual attraction toward another woman besides his wife. 

It is quite possible for one to fall in love with a person of one gender AND marry that person, while all of that person's other physiological sexual attractions are directed toward others not the gender of the person whom one married.  

My own father, who was exclusively heterosexual, did marry the last woman with whom he fell in love (they both were my biological parents and I was born 3 years after they got married).  

But, he told me that he did experience those inner body attractions toward women in his presence. He called that feeling "getting his passion up." But, he refused to even lust after them. So, as Jesus would say, "He did not commit adultery in his heart (because of what he felt or saw)." 

Sister, I put off telling my folks about my sexual orientation because I was also afraid of telling them and how it would affect me. I was 41 years old when I moved from Tulsa, OK to Los Angeles, ending up in N. Hollywood, in the spring of 1984. I have been a Holy Spirit-filled Pentecostal since I was 16 years old (I got that first experience in an Assembly of God in Oct. '58). In fact, it was an AG in Tulsa, where I received two prophecies by Holy Spirit-filled men that I should leave Tulsa. Oh, they did not know that their prophecies were comfirmation of a "fleece" that I had laid before the LORD Jesus as to whether I should move out of state to look for work. They also did not know that the LORD also used them as HIS plan to get me out of Oklahoma so that I could accept myself as HE had already told me, "Joe, I made you that way and I love you just the way you are."  

The LORD even prepared a place for me to stay after I got there; although I had not actually planned to stay in anyone's home. I just let a former ORU college friend that I was in LA on the day that I arrived and I was invited to spend the night as his home. I stayed with that pastor for 6 weeks. (He did not know that I knew he was a closeted homosexual before I stayed with him. We were just good friends, anyway.) 

After I had moved out there and later moved in with Ed, a Believer in Jesus, too, I did let my younger sister know about my sexual orientation. But, my parents sort of found out accidently in Nov. '87. When I was at work on the graveyard shift, I often wrote letters to family back in Oklahoma, when there was a lull period and I just was sitting by myself at the security gate. I had planned to write 2 letters during the shift and addressed one to my sister and one to my parents. 

In the one to my sister, I told her that I had gone to a Halloween Party with a bar friend who used to live in Western Oklahoma (my family was in Eastern Oklahoma). I had met the friend at a Country and Western Club mostly attended by gays and lesbians in my neighborhood. The party was over in S. Pasadena and while we were there, a guy whom the friend knew was hitting on me; but, I was not paying any attention to that. That guy asked me to get him and myself a refreshment refill and while I was over where the drinks were, my friend told him, "Leave Joe alone." The guy asked him why, and the friend said, "Because you are not his type." The guy was into the S&M/B&D Leather games scene. The guy said, "What if he has fantasies?" The friend said, "While I don't know Joe really well, I do know that he is not interested in that stuff at all." (Not exact quotes, but words to that effect.) 

By mistake, I put the letter which was supposed to go to my sister into the envelope which I had addressed to our folks. I don't really remember if I ever got around to actually writing to Mom and Dad that night. But, when Mom later told me about what they received and after she read it to Dad, he said, "That's okay; I still love him!" Oh, one thing I had not mentioned here; my father had been an AG evangelist, of the lay type, for a number of years and also a pastor for 2 of my growing up years. So, Dad kept right on telling me that he loved me every time he talked to me. And one thing that he had always told me in person very often before I moved to LA and during my years before that and after I moved back to Tulsa in '92, was "Joe, I have loved you ever since before you was born." (Exact quote which he always meant.) And he kept saying that until he went to be with the LORD in Feb. 94. While we never actually discussed my sexual orientation nor even my in-bed relationship with Ed, who died in '91, Dad did talk and ask about what Ed and I did as a couple of guys living together. Besides, he was never interested in his adult children's sex life anyway. 

Now my mom, who went to be with the LORD in April this year, and I did talk about my sexual orientation. As far as she was concerned, she considered a person's relationship with the LORD more important than his or her sexual orientation. She also believed that gays who were in love should have the same right to a marriage license as heterosexuals have. She even let politicians know what she thought about equal rights for everyone, too.  

It is the filthy minded sex-crazed heterosexual men who approve of two women having sexual activity with each other (it sexually arouses them); while they are repulsed at the very thought of two men having sex with each other.  

I used to know man claiming to be Southern Baptist who told me that the thought of men having sex made him want to puke; but, the thought of women having sex turned him own sexually.  

"bonnieh" wrote: "You people need to go back and read the bible."  

Well, I do read the bible every day! I also have the quivalent of a Master of Arts in Theological and Historcial Studies (of the Bible) which I got on a transcript from an accredited university. Since I formally studied theology under university professors, most of whom had doctorates in Bible related studies and all of whom had masters degrees, I can also refer to myself as an "educated theologian." I don't know everything; but, I not only have a number of English translation Bibles in my home library, right next to the computer, I have the Old Testament in Hebrew and two versions of the Greek New Testament close at hand, also. 

"Bonnieh," you, and other "Bible-Thumping Proof-texting" people, need to learn how to study the Bible, not just read it, in its historical and culture context and consider the situation in which each book of the Bible was written and attempt to get an understanding of the world-view of each of the authors and the world-view of their readers at that time, too. 

In the study of literature (fiction or non-fiction and including the Bible's books), proof-texting is the taking a sentence, a paragraph, or even a chapter, out of its original context and mis-using that to to support one's opinion about something.  

The "Canaanites" and their religion, culture and lifestyles which are being discussed in Leviticus chapters 18 through 20 are called "Phoenicians" in most high school and college history books and in most encyclopedias, too.  

If "you people" who claim we don't read the Bible would actually read outside-of-the-Bible, aka extra-biblical, sources to understand the various non-Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite cultures and those people, called "Gentiles" in English Bibles, you will see that the scriptures you are using here in this discussion have absolutely no connection with homosexuals nor homosexuality.  

No author of the Bible condemned consensual same-gender sexual activity done by those who woud be exclusively homosexual in their sexual orientation, NOT literally; NOT figuratively! Jesus never did that either.  

The same-gender sexual activity that is mentioned in Romans chapter 1 takes place in pagan fertility temples. Paul writes that those men who lusted after each other did so after they rejected God as the Creator of all things and worshipped what was created, either by God, or by humans, i.e. false gods, instead.  

It was after that, God gave them up to untested/unproved minds (aka "reprobate" in KJV Bibles). Note that they REJECTED GOD FIRST!