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Messages By: wngdpnthr

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September 27, 2006, 4:39 pm PDT

Blaming the schools

One of the things that struck me was how Colleen seemed to blame the school for her son skipping school for 17 days and not telling her.  I have bad news for her, kids know how to delete messages from the answering machine.  I spent a year in the public schools and found many parents like Colleen, who seem to be oblivious to what's happening with their children.  Some do not appear to want to be parents.  I called one father who had no idea his son was in a gang.  Parents need to wake up!  The schools can't raise your kids, you have to know what's going on.  Not only does it hurt your child, but it frustrates teachers and drives them out of the schools.  I left the schools as much for the poor pay as for the lack of help from parents.  Parents, you have to get involved!
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:07 am PST

The defenders of the public schools are full of it!

 Just going over a few facts: colleges have far more respect for homeschooled students than public school students.  Socialization can happen just fine in churches and other places.

Now for my main attack: I was a high school teacher for a year, and my experiences there convinced me that I would NEVER EVER allow one of my children to be educated in a public school.  One teacher on the show claimed that teachers are constantly being educated.  Nonsense!  We were constantly barraged with how to implement the latest education fad.  It wasted our time.  My education classes did not teach me how to teach.  I taught in college for years with great success, and I found that a lot of the "classes" for teachers were silly.  I observed "students with disabilities" systematicly taught that they cannot succeed, despite the intentions of their teachers.  I saw students "socialized" by hooking up with the cool crowd that happens to be a gang. 

As far as academics, I taught seniors in PreCalculus who couldn't do basic graphing without their calculators, because all the classes their math teachers took, and the math "standards" for the state, basicly require them to use a calculator instead of their brain.  I observed about two weeks of the school year consumed with social non-sense that completely disrupted the pace of education.

Finally, I observed students disrupt the class for those who wanted to learn.  I observed parents who didn't care that their child was misbehaving.  I observed a system that cares more about some fake sense of self-esteem than about accomplishment.  I observed a discipline system that couldn't remove a trouble student for 6 months, despite at least three teachers writing non-stop referals.  He was finally removed when he threatened another teacher.

I live in South Carolina, and the public schools here are a disaster.  I live in the upstate, where there's enough money to fund the schools, and they're a disaster.  Book publishers are forced to put politically correct material into history textbooks at the expense of true history that may not be flattering to one group or another, so that Texas and California will buy their books.

Now for the other side: the unschoolers are full of it.  Your children need to learn math.  They need to learn grammar rules (that aren't taught in SC public schools).  These are things that are not fun, but are essential for your child to be able to compete for jobs.  Deadlines are real, and often are not oben to negotiation.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:15 am PST

Amen brother!

Quote From: steiwhleur

I graduated from an upper-middle class high school in 1990.  I thought I had learned what needed to be learned so that I could go on to college.  WRONG!  In college I had to pay for REMEDIAL math classes!!! I was so angry.  But then I looked around at who was in my remedial class and they were all students from North Hills High School!!  I wanted to bill the high school for my remedial classes, but my parents said I should just drop it.  I wish I had sent the high school a bill.  Maybe it would have caused them to take another look at their sub-par cirriculum!!

 

That was all hapening 16 years ago!  I now live in New Mexico and the schools here are horrific.  Graduates can't read, write, do math, spell....nothing!  My niece is in the 9th grade and probably reads on a 4th grade level.  She can't spell correctly if her life depended on it...and it does.  No one wants to hire someone too stupid to spell or add or divide correctly.  And her speaking is just as bad.  She sounds like a dullard.  This will haunt her for the rest of her life.  People will assume she's an idiot, not the kind, sweet, beautiful girl that she has become.

 

New Mexico ranks 43rd out of 50 for our inadequate schooling, yet our govenor refuses to address it.  Yes he's trying to throw money at the problem, but we need to start requiring more from the teachers and principals before we can make such demands on our children.  New Mexico also has a "don't ask" policy about if a child is an illegal or an American citizen.  Therefore our schools are flooded with illegals who only speak Spanish.  This adds to the teachers' burden---the teachers must learn and teach Spanish to "accomodate" these illegals.  No wonder we rank so low!!  New Mexico is like a 3rd world country in many ways.

 

Home schooling sounds like the way to go so long as the parents meet all the required credentials and they are diligent about teaching at home.  Home schooled kids should have some kind of network so that they can be around like-aged kids.  That way they can learn the socialization skills needed out in the real world.

 

For our retirement we are looking to go to the mountains of Montana -- maybe we'll find some smart people like us up there!!

 My wife had a similar experience with her high school.  She was so poorly prepared for college, especially in math, that she ended up dropping out of college because of math, embarassment, and frustration.  She worked a retail job for about 10 years and went back to college at the age of 28, where she finally got the remedial classes she needed to make up for the loss.  She has two associate's degrees in electronics and is going for bachelors degrees in history and writing.  She would LOVE to sue her former high school.  She graduated in 1991 from Irmo HS in South Carolina, supposedly the best high school in the state.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:32 am PST

Nutty education

Quote From: purplepenny

"Next, there are boudaries set by the district on w hat they can teach your child that do not exist in private school.  In private school (I found this out after we checked out private schools and from a teacher) they can teach whatever they see fit."

That is an excellent point. Private schools that get no public funding can teach whatever nutty thing they want and that worries me greatly.
 Unfortunately, Public schools get public funding, and can also teach whatever nutty thing they want.  Most states model their math program after NCTM standards, which are consistently criticized by mathematicians as unsound and virtually guaranteed to lead to poor performance.   These standard are part of why the US performs so poorly on the TIMMS test, while Singapore does the best.

This is also why students are not taught grammar in high school.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:47 am PST

It gets worse

Quote From: aureille

I think it is rather distressing the extremeness that is implied in the show for Nov. 24th.  I can imagine that there are many homeschool families that do not do their jobs in the way of educating their children.  But I believe that the ration of those families to those who actually do teach their children is probably no different as compared to the same children that attend public or private schools.

 

I can assure you that a homeschooling family who are doing what they are supposed to be doing (even in the case of unschooling) have not choosen the lazy way out.  Teaching is a full time job, no matter who is doing it.  Now try to teach two or more curriculums/unit studies/or be organized enough to teach your multiple children's spontinaity of interests and you will find you have little time to clean, shop, or even get your hair cut. 

 

I also believed (before deciding to homeschool) that every school, teacher, or school administrator and the parents were the key to a child's education.  If a child had active parents and teachers, then the child would learn.  There was no such thing as a bad school.  I believed this until we moved to our new location.  Teachers on EVERY level would not talk with me, answer notes or return phone calls.  The principal told me she did not deal with certain grade levels.  NO ONE attended my preschooler's IEP meeting that was scheduled at the school staff's confinence.  My children told me that teachers tore up art projects, screamed at children, and there were fights daily.  Perhaps they over exaggerating?  I have no idea, I couldn't get ANYONE at the school to respond. 

 

So I pulled them from the school.  I attempted to wait for the school to notice my children were not attending.  Worried about getting a truancy report, I called the school after 4 days to inform them I was applying to the state to do a homestudy program.  They asked me if I was coming in early to pick them up and take them home early for the day???

 

Yes on most levels in this country, our children are blessed with the free education they recieve.  But I too am blessed with having a strong desire to learn and an even stronger desire to give my children the best.  NO ONE will ever convince me that the public school district where we currently live is the best learning environment for my children. 

 

Do I believe that all public schools fall into this catagory?  NO  I have members within my family and friends whom are educators.  I have adored some of my children's teachers in the past.  Some have truely helped my children overcome some personal issues.  But on the other hand,  I am very glad I have the option to bring my children home. 

 

I truely believe that this show will do a great disservice to the many people in this country who not only have serious reasons to decide to homeschool, but who are doing great jobs at it. 

 

 While I was a teacher, I heard about middle-school math teachers who were teaching math incorrectly.  They were teaching fractions and percents INCORRECTLY, and teaching their students how to get the wrong answers.  Believe me, it can get even worse, if you can believe it.
 
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November 24, 2006, 8:55 am PST

"Highly qualified" is a joke!

Quote From: tamika12767

I find it, as a high school educator, insulting to hear people/parents believe that they can do what I do without any formal training.  Teachers must obtain a four year degree and specific training for their specialty. With the legislation No Child Left Behind, teachers now must be "highly qualified" to teach the classes that they do. If I were to diagnose my child with a health problem and proceed to operate feeling I know whats best for my child's health care I would be prosecuted and most likely loose custody of my children. Why is it so different when it comes to the educating of our countries future. It is time for this country to take education and educators seriously or be prepared to reap the sad consequences.  Teaching is a profession NOT a hobby!
 No Child Left Behind does not define what "highly qualifed" means.  That is defined at the state level.  Most states defined "highly qualified" as being able to pass a test that has been shown to have no correlation with a teacher's effectiveness in the classroom.  Moreover, this test is something that, in math, barely touched on anything above Calculus.  Oh, and that four year degree does NOT have to be in the subject taught, at least in South Carolina.  To make matters worse, if someone has been teaching for several years, they can be grandfathered in, despite abysmal ignorance of the subject taught.  The only thing that No Child Left Behind has done is give parents warm fuzzies, give lower grades more incentive to "pass on" students, so they won't look bad, and administer more tests.

The reality is that anyone with a high school diploma should be able to do reasonably well on the tests to be "highly qualified".  It won't happen that way, given the failures that are rampant in some schools.  I know one thing for sure, if your student has a learning disability, the school will spend a lot of money to cripple your child.  I watched it happen, as Special Ed teachers gave students the answers, rather than help students learn.

Teachers do not get the respect they deserve for the hard work they do, but there are a lot of bad teachers out there, too.  Don't think any of the special titles/certificates people can get indicate anything about that person's ability to teach.
 
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November 24, 2006, 4:28 pm PST

Statistical nonsense

Quote From: donnaml

 You quoted research on home schooling and said that the research indicates that those who are home schooled are socially behind those who are not. The research is flawed. In order to make that claim you have to compare twins who were 1 home schooled and the other not. Only a twin study would really prove the point. Think about it. If a child is not socially adept it may very well be the child and not the schooling that causes that. You can not make a claim with that many factors influencing the result of the study. I challenge you to make a study under scientific rules of research and find out for yourself. I have observed many students in 20 years of teraching who were not socialized. Many were traditional school graduates. I have 10% of my current students coming from home school. I teach junior college. None of the home schooled students exhibit any problems with social skills However I would never claim that school or home school caused the problems with social skills. It is like blaming the school for an addiction. Behavior is not caused it is choosen. You should know that. You preach it.
You need to learn about statistics.  A twin study is only useful in comparing nature vs nurture in various aspects of development.  The great level of differences that can be present in twins means that a twin study has no great relevance to this.  The studies can be flawed, but a twin study is not the key to generating a valid study.
 
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November 24, 2006, 4:33 pm PST

Correction: we have SOME quality safe schools

Quote From: baliddell

As a new teacher (but not a young one) and a mother of two, I am here to share with you that the classroom has changed dramatically in the recent past. In my school students learn from each other, they construct their knowledge through working out solutions with peers.  At times students choose topics to explore and then they present to their peers on the topic. Students even learn to evaluate others work. Standing at the front of the classroom and lecturing all day is not an option.  We need to be active in creating quality schools for all of our children.
 When I was teaching high school last year, I had two students get arrested on school grounds for possession with intent to distribute.  I had another student who frequently stank of pot.  There was at least one fight per week.  Theft occurred on a regular basis and we had to lock the bathrooms to keep kids from having sex at school.  Unfortunately, the stairwell doors had to be left closed so they could still have sex there.  In one case, a student defecated in the stairwell.

Some schools are good, but not all of them.
 
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November 24, 2006, 4:40 pm PST

Being a teacher sucked

Quote From: timshelly

Yes, as a fellow teacher I agree. I am a Math Coach in my building. I coteach with teachers and also work with groups of children. We do lots of "investigative learning" and interactions.

 

We also have the interactive whiteboards...wow, what a long way we have some since chalk.

 

The kids love it and are learning to feel safe in their decision making, whether right or wrong. We learn from each others accomplishments and even more from our mistakes. (students and teachers)

 

Isn't it exciting to be a teacher!?!?!

 

 I had to teach students who didn't know basic facts.  I hope the investigative learning includes the procedures for long division and fractions, because they will need those skills in high school.  I had a senior in high school who had never learned how to work fractions, and it hurt him in precalculus.
 
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November 24, 2006, 4:44 pm PST

I agree

Quote From: lindamaestone

I just want to say I was a student of public schools all my life.  I was very timid and shy and every day was excruciating to me.  I hated every minute of every day but continued because it was expected of me and I didn't want to disappoint my parents.  I did graduate of high school although with a c-/d+ average.  I was picked on because I was so small and shy by the other students kindergarten through 12th grade.  I was bullied and ridiculed no only by other students but some of the teachers as well.  I could not bring myself to enter collage or a trade school because of my experiences.  I don't thing one way of schooling is better or worse than any other.  As far as I can tell, school hasn't changed one bit.  I have grandchildren who are experiencing the same thing I did today.  Two of my children did not graduate from high school but are functioning adults.  Two my my sons were in the military. 
 My wife experienced the same thing, and I saw students go through this when I was teaching.  This is the "socialization" that Dr. Phil was so eager to see kids get.  I don't see how being picked on at school, or being a bully, is useful to society.
 

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