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Messages By: lanee
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November 17, 2007, 11:52 am PST
I have a particular interest in the 3 part series starting Monday. I do
want to watch it, but am fearful of the (personal) triggers that may be
contained therein. I have it set to TIVO as I do for all of Dr. Phil's shows,
so that I can watch topics that interest me, or a loved one, which is most of
the time. I also TIVO so I can watch at a time that is more convenient for me
to watch since I have a little one, and my husband has an aversion to Dr.
Phil. My husband is also a sex addict and compulsive liar. As I have heard Dr. Phil say in the past, "How do you know he's lying? Because his lips are moving...." That is my husband. We have been married for 6 1/2 years, and for the first 6 years, I was in full denial of the issues that were before me. I had literally become brainwashed to believe that I was crazy despite the disturbing content within his porn addiction, the inconsistencies of his stories, his villanizing of me to my family, friends, and co-workers, his sexual abuse of me, his objectification and devaluing of me, his total emotional abandonment, anger, rage, denial, and projection of his shame on me. If I found porn, it was my fault for looking, and I was a crazy f*ing "C." He truly was incapable of believing anything I had to say at all. If any fact was said by someone other than myself, it was indeed a fact or consideration. Anything I had to say was immediately dismissed as my imagination, or I just didn't know what I was talking about, or "that's just stupid..." If I questioned his obviously inappropriate behavior with clients, other professionals, or co-workers, I was made to believe that there was something wrong with my brain, because I was making these things up in my head. He was in collusion with my mother as the two of them took comfort in one another blaming my "imagination" for the discontent in their lives. The anger, rage, and distance that was a daily ritual from him became unbearable for me. All the while, however, I portrayed an image of the perfect marriage and family to everyone else. To the outside, he played the victim so well. He comes across as such a peaceful, understanding, empathetic man, but that is all an illusion. His children from a previous marriage stayed with us for a while, (2005 & 2006) as we tried to blend the families. These children were violent, cruel, manipulative, (beyond what the normal difficult dynamics that can exist between step parents and step children) and they were openly abusive to our three year old daughter in my presence. (They are 7 and 8 years older than she is) When their father was home, the children were angelic. Anytime I would report their severe abuse, he would deny any issues... Therefore adding to his case that I was crazy, and that his children were fine. They were just being kids, and I was the one with the problem. I had suffered from alcohol issues in the past, and unfortunately, during this time, I allowed myself to fall into that trap once again, late at night after the kids were in bed. In my mind, I was going crazy, and I needed something to make the pain and madness stop, even if only temporarily. In my mind, nothing short of suicide could stop the intense emptiness, so that is what I used to make myself stop feeling. At times, we had loud arguments late at night because of this. When I finally obtained proof of abuse to my then 3 year old, we removed my step son from school, (he was 10 at the time) turned him in to the police, and when they could not arrest him (because my 3 year old could say "what" happened, but she could not say "when" it happened) we put him on a plane back to his mother, who is out of state. The other child was already back with the mother. I was very stressed, teetering toward a breakdown, but tried to hold it together for the sake of my daughter. The acting out from my husband, (extreme deviant porn, sleeping with my friends, playing the victim, etc.) increased, and I was not allowed to tell anyone about what happened to my daughter. When I did, there was once again increased anger, rage, shame, and blame placed upon me, which I readily accepted. At this point, he was still in full denial of ever acting out sexually, and that the porn was something that "all guys did." Also, during this time, he was sexually aggressive with me, at times continued thrusting when I cried out in pain, begging him to stop. He also began waking me up in the middle of the night after I had gone to bed, and after using alcohol or other sedatives, and he would have sex with me, and I would not remember at all. It became a shame game for me because I never remembered, and he would be so offended that I couldn't remember "such an awesome experience," so I began pretending that I did remember. He is a gun enthusiast, and several of his favorite places on his computer back then were regarding how to hire a hit man, and how to get away with murder, how to clean crime scenes, etc. That was scary to me, and when confronted, he responded with his usual..."you're just stupid." The downward spiral continued until June of this year, when I turned to the Internet to find out what my problem was. I started searching to find out what was wrong with me, because I felt to shameful and inferior because of his porn use. This is when my eyes were opened. Dr. Phil's site, among others, helped me to realize that I was the co-dependent, or the co-sex addict. That these behaviors were NOT normal, and that not only was I being abused, but coming to grips with the fact that I was allowing it to happen. I had been in therapy for years, but once I got everything on the table, it was suggested that I attend an outpatient intensive therapy program. I was gone from home for 14 hours a day, Monday through Friday, for 2 weeks, in an amazingIN YOUR FACE intensive program. My goal was to re-discover my sense of self, for me, but also so that I could model positive behavior for my daughter that I had never learned. Up to that point, all I had taught her was how to pretend things were OK when they truly were not, how to smile, and hide real feelings. This is what I learned, and I knew that I had to stop the cycle. I wanted to learn how to safely and effectively express real feelings without fear of anger, denial, or retribution. In the two weeks I was in the intensive, I dealt with previously unknown childhood trauma issues, etc., as well as my accountability in all of this, which was very hard to face. I learned that I do have a voice, and a reason to be alive. I had gone from a size 14 to a size 4, (at 5'9") and nearly destroyed my face from picking from all the stress. I learned that I have body dismorphic issues that I still struggle with. During this time, there was no disclosure from my husband. In his words, he was merely holding down the fort while the crazy wife got her therapy. AFTER my intensive treatment was complete, my husband regurgitated all of his affairs, lies, deceptions, becauase I had become stronger and he was afraid of losing me. Now, he is so sorry, so regretful, and so ashamed of how he lied, cheated, and punished me for his wrongs. I am the only woman he has ever loved, blah, blah... Those are nice words. He went to the same place I did for a few appointments, but finances haven't permitted further treatment for him. He claims to be a changed man, and reformed, but just cannot seem to stop staring at other women, and internet attractions, etc. Like the husband on the show, "isn't it convenient" that all his infidelities were in the past? Does that somehow make them OK? Why is it that it seems they cannot admit to the more recent activities...are they less forgivable? I know for a fact that I don't know the whole story, and his high horse of morality will not allow him to face his real self, therefore allowing the rest of the disclosure. I have been sober from Alcohol for 10 weeks and counting. We live in the same house, but in separate bedrooms. There is no conflict, no sex, just more like roomates. Our 5 year old shares the bedroom with me, and is excelling in her school. She is currently in therapy also, and doing quite well. My fear of watching the show is that it will reinforce the reality that I have to leave him, but our home is in foreclosure, there is no money, no support, no contingency plan, no nothing. I had wanted to return to work when my baby was a year old, but was unable to because I wasn't "allowed" to. He works in my family's business, and he didn't want me nosing in his affairs. I realize that I am not a victim, and I HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT MYSELF, but this reminder might be too much. I am currently seeking employment again, we are moving into a rental together for financial reasons at this point, but he acts as if we "just need to move forward." I agree with that, but I cannot do that until I have a better understanding of why his switch went off. I've been living in the fog of wondering when it will all happen again. Then, if it does, how many years will be wasted then? It is nearly 7 years now.... it might be 10 or more. My journey is in my blog, though I've not posted in a month or so. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog&friendID=200544800 Thanks for letting me get this out....and if you've made it this far, you're a real trooper! |
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November 19, 2007, 9:29 am PST
To Quote: When someone is so sexually deviant? Master manipulators get angry when confronted. So much power behind everything they do, the cheating, lies, stories, fanasies and obsessons in all and getting away with what they do. No one is safe by this kind o mentlity. Especiall someone he feels he owns in a relationship and that he shows he should keep no matter what he does? Some truth would have to have weight in his life for him to ever be trusted, it sure don't look like he hasmuch of that? This is such a true statement. This is what I am trying to recover from....the extreme rage I encountered when attempting to confront the sexual deviancy, lies, and betrayals. The cheating and porn is hard enough to take, and those issues alone I believe no one should have to face. But the rage, projected shame and anger, flagrant deception and manipulation leave very, very deep scars. It is my personal belief that the false self of individuals such as these is so protective, it won't allow the truth to be revealed. If the truth does come out, and it is dealt with, then I believe that those are the lucky ones. |
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November 19, 2007, 9:40 am PST
Quote From: marianparoo ...but I am so tired of women, who get into situations where they are left dependent in every way on men like this.
Sometimes I think one of the requirements for getting a marriage license should be some kind of a profession, so nobody is stuck in a marriage because they need the financial support.
And if someone's religion doesn't allow divorce, is there anything that prevents them from leaving a dangerous situation?
I totally agree with this. I was independent and completely self sufficient when
we first got together. I was on my own healing journey to well being,
independence, self esteem, and from the beginning, he began to unravel each and
every part of myself that defined who I was. What mother doesn't want to stay at home, even for a short time with their baby? Of course I did, but I had no idea that this was part of the process. I thought he wanted to take care of me, (I have always taken care of myself) so I thought to myself...why not? In the beginning, I was stubborn, and I did not give in without a fight, but the constant circle of lies and manipulations, including turning others against me, (while maintaining the facade of a healthy marriage and sexual relationship)made me believe that I was crazy, and I was the one with the problem. He told me that he was raised that the husband should be the sole provider, and then I allowed him to put the blame on me when the finances went awry. I do not want to stay for another moment, but I need to try and keep things cool, calm, fair, and consistent for my daughter until I can do it on my own. I am an able individual, so with God's help, it shouldn't take too long. |
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November 19, 2007, 10:09 am PST
Quote From: robinhoho First & foremost know & own the fact that this is HIS addiction...........NOT YOURS! I too have been there & know first hand how devestating this can be. The effects of HIS addiction & your PAST inabilities to remain sober yourself (although initially thought to be only a means to numb the pain for you & hide your shame of him............sound just like that at this point............a thing of the PAST) Please keep present & hold your head ever so high. Do not be intimidated or allow yourself to be degraded by him. Listen to and honor that little voice within you. Stay SOBER,GET INDEPENDENT & NOT CODEPENDENT & lead by example for yourr little girl. Children are extremely intuitive & know or sense when things are not right..........and this is clearly soooooooooooooooo wrong. A woman's shelter with PEACE & SERENITY will be 10,000 times better than moving to a rental with a man who you couldn't & shouldn't trust. Trust is something that is earned & as far as I am concerned, this unfortunate soul has earned his way OUT of yours & your daughter's lives. Trust him with her for NOT 2 SECONDS.
Having dated my ex-husband for 3 1/2 years before my daughter & I married him..........he was to become "Daddy to her" & life was supposed to be wonderful, he was the man who was too good to be true, I thought I knew him inside & out ......yet, as it all turned out.................He was NOT TRUE. Two months after I married him & four days before he was supposed to adopt my daughter, I uncovered his deep dark secret past. A life full of demons he had & continues to live with today.............almost seven years later. As said in prior responses from others.............."A leopard DOESN'T change his spots" - this is ever sooooooooooo true.
To say it was easy to move to where we are today would not be so, because as a woman & mother I think there is so much internal dialogue that "we can fix this.........., yet the truth of the matter is that we can not...............only he can fix himself . Send him on his way with blessings that he does, so that he doesn't destroy any other lives & you move away from the past & the pain. Easier said than done, but try to FORGIVE............you'll never forget, but do forgive so you move to a place of freedom for yourself. Anger only errodes oneself. You must make your daughter your priority above all else. Without a strong , loving , supportive, self respecting mother , she will devalue herself & no mother wants that for their child. The strongest influence in her life will & should be you. Lead by example & hold your head high & know that "You are a Powerful Woman who is Deserving of Love & Being Loved in Return ," yet at this point ....let that LOVE, be LOVE OF ONESELF! Be good to you & move on. Better to be alone than to be with someone & be so lonely. Have faith in yourself & vow to do all that you need to do to make YOUR LIFE A WONDERFUL LIFE. Life is what we make it & you can either continue to stay where you are & move to a rental which is totally ABSURD or you can CHOOSE TO MAKE IT WONDERFUL. All we do in life is based on choices........I once learned years ago a little life saver that I will share with you..............hold your hand up ; palm facing you & look at your hand..............lable each finger & starting with the thumb label it "RISK", index finger = "TRUST", middle finger + "LOVE", ring finger = "ACCEPT" , pinky finger = "GROW" & in the palm of your hand = "CHOICE" .....................the synopsis of it all is.............in life with everything we do, we are taking a "RISK" & we must "TRUST " & "LOVE " oneself enough to take that risk & from that "ACCEPT" the outcome as it be & from our experience "GROW" ....................to do it all is based upon a "CHOICE", so ............"CHOOSE to make YOUR LIFE WONDERFUL." As Dr. Phil says so eloquently...............better to be in something for a year & get out , than to be there for 1 year and a DAY!!! Meditate & stay strong & KNOW that you are NOT the only one out there in this situation. It is ever so present in this society , sadly to say. Here is a little something to read & think about daily.
The Best Day Of MY Life
Today, when I awoke, I suddenly realized that this is the best day of my life, ever!
There were times when I wondered if I would make it to today; but I did! And because I did I'm going to celebrate!
Today, I'm going to celebrate what an unbelievable life I have had so far: the accomplishments, the many blessings, and, yes, even the hardships because they have served to make me stronger.
I will go through this day with my head held high, and a happy heart.
I will marvel at God's seemingly simple gifts: the morning dew, the sun, the clouds, the trees, the flowers, the birds. Today, none of these miraculous creations will escape my notice.
Today, I will share my excitement for life with other people. I'll make someone smile. I'll go out of my way to perform an unexpected act of kindness for someone I don't even know.
Today, I'll give a sincere compliment to someone who seems down. I'll tell a child how special he is, and I'll tell someone I love just how deeply I care about them and how much they mean to me.
Today is the day I quit worrying about what I don't have and start being grateful for all the wonderful things God has already given me.
I'll remember that to worry is just a wste of time because my faith in God and his Divine Plan ensures everything will be just fine.
Tonight, before i go to bed, I'll go outside and raise my eyes to the heavens. I will stand in awe at the beauty of the stars and the moon, and I will praise God for these magnificent treasures.
As the day ends and I lay my head down on my pillow, I will thank the Almighty for the best day of my life. And I will sleep the sleep of a contented child, excited with expectation because I know tomorrow is going to be ........... The Best Day Of My Life!
All the best to you. Robin
Robin~
Thank you for your kind words and your encouragement. Yes, it seems as if this is a far more commonproblem that as a society, people might not want to believe. It is tragic,traumatizing, hideous, and so very unnecessary.
Yes, this is his addiction, and not mine, and it took me years to realize that. For years,he had flagrant disregard for my well being, and trashed me to everyone we knew, including my family. I felt inferior, fat, ugly, stupid, worthless, and that was only the beginning. I am not any of those things. I decline propositions should they arise, and I really am OK. The programming is the hardest thing to undo. The household revolved around his ejaculation, and I didn't even know it. There was no regard for my basic bill of rights as a human being. I was devalued and objectified. He had my psychologist fooled, (for years....) he had literally convinced everyone we knew that he was a poor innocent victim, while pretending to be happy and fine to my face. I was unaware of the emotional and sexual abuse being just that---abuse. I just thought it came with his territory and who was I to question it? My blog was shocking to my closer friends, because I had always painted a picture of this Polyana perfect marriage and home. People who know me WELL, e-mailed me to ask if this was the "same husband I am married to" or perhaps I was referring to an ex. His family, friends, and the like are unaware of his indiscretions and addictions, due to his shame. Thankfully I have a great support system, not from my family,but from my Dr's and Therapists. Your words were right from your heart, and I very much appreciate them. Thank you. I am indeed grateful for today, and each moment I am given. I now realize I do have a right to exist, and my daughter is experiencing a calmer, more serene, and more centered Mom, because I am "present" for me. And yes, Robin, today IS the best day of my life. It's all I've got. I take things one day at a time.....trying to keep in mind that sometimes good people do bad things, so that I can forgive and stay out of the anger rut for my own well being. My sobriety, self awareness, and basic human rights are my protection, and I intend to make fair, and not drastic choices. Do I get nervous? Sure I do. There are times I am so fearful I can't speak, but I appear strong, and I am even stronger. I am not afraid of him anymore. I still care and wish him well. I do know what I need to do, and I also know I need to do it soon, but finances will not permit---TODAY---that is not to say that it will be this way forever....so I take it as God gives it to me....one breath at a time. Thank you for the 5-finger analogy. I will remember that. You are a great soul. God Blessyou! |
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November 19, 2007, 2:13 pm PST
Quote From: lighthouseguy I sad number of posts on here are reflections made by women who have had sadly nothing but bad experiences with men, and in turn, that has colored their judgment of "all" men. We all make choices in our lives and staying in bad relationships is one of them. Their are no pats on the back or special awards for continuing in a bad relationship. As Dr. Phil often says, "We teach people how to treat us." If people stay in a bad relationship, regardless of the practical reasons and good intentions, are condoning the treatment they are getting even if they say they "fought constantly to change things." In the end, they never drew a line in the sand saying that "this is all I will tolerate." A marriage is made up of TWO people meeting each other's needs and loving each other unconditionally, but if one is violating the other's trust, not meeting the other's needs, or not thinking of the marriage as a partnership, then it, in reality, IS NOT a marriage and loving "unconditionally" there makes no sense if it is only one-sided. There are no special rewards for "hanging in there" in such cases and Dr. Phil would be the first to say that "staying together for the kids" is a load of bunk as kids suffer far more from a dysfunctional marriage than from a divorce. Get out when you have to as staying may hurt all involved. No one loves a martyr for a bad marriage. They want sympathy for a situation they should have gotten out of years ago. How many on here began their stories with "My husband of 40 years was . . ." or "My boyfriend of 8 years is . . ." Their stories are tragic not just because the terrible hardships they endured, but also because they chose to endure it. Excuses of "I was trying to save my marriage" or "I just couldn't leave him" or "He needs me but doesn't realize it" are not based in any real reality and are designed to make us feel better about being taken advantage of for so long. It almost becomes boastful in regards to how much crap someone took and "hung in there." Again, there are no rewards for this. You and your kids suffer and in addition so does the other spouse who shoud really be cut loose since he or she isn't respecting the marriage anyhow. ******************************************************************************************************************** MY STORY: As a 44 year old man I'm well aware that a good number of women on here may distrust my point of view considering the posts of "All men are . . ." and the horrific husband on this show, but I'm going to chance it that someone may benefit from my story. I've been with my wife for 25 years (22 in actual marriage) and there is no doubt in either of our minds that we are each other's soulmate; however, we've also both learned that that alone doesn't always make for a happy marriage. Sadly, loving is not always enough. I've been a teacher for 17 years and my wife was fortunate enough to start off as a secretary in a bank that lead to her becoming its vice president. Along the way she took me and the kids for granted and began to become distant. Her job was everything and we all became an annoying distraction. With my teacher schedule I was expected, and to some degree rightfully so, to be on top of things with the kids since I was home most with them, but that didn't excuse my wife from being a mom. This doesn't mean she didn't love her kids, only that she was cold towards them and rarely expressed lover or respect to them or me. Since my wife had become a vice president of a bank, I was viewed as "just a teacher." In addition, she was bitter over my summers off with the kids and all the holidays I had. Between looking down on my profession and her jealousy over my close relationship with our kids, she began a long slow withdrawl from all of us. She never had an affair, but her job was the equivalent of a lover to me. I, like many of the women on here, fought with me wife to change what was happening, get marriage counseling, and SHOW us that she loved us, but my pleas fell on deaf ears. Could I play the victim here? Sure, but the reality is it took me 10 years of this behavior to finally draw a line in the sand and say enough. I taught my wife that all my bitching and complaining meant nothing as I would stay with her regardless. I taught her to take advantage of me. Loving someone unconditionally doesn't mean having to die a martyr's death. I loved my wife then and now, but I knew we could not survive in what appeared to be a one-sided marriage and she knew that as well. We talked divorce and even began the initial steps. It wasn't until I was within several weeks of actually moving out that my wife finally said, "I still love you. I don't want you to go, but if you feel like it's gone too far, you should have the house and the kids and I should go. I'm the one throwing it all away, not you." We never divorced. We never separated. We never went down this road again. My wife admitted later that she needed me to stand up to her. She knew she was taking advantage of me and secretly resented me for not drawing that line in the sand sooner. Loving someone unconditionally doesn't mean putting up with all of his or her crap because if he or she really loved you unconditionally, he or she would change. My wife did, but I had to take a stand and make a choice. The change didn't come until I decided to stop playing the victim and that's when I actually earned my wife's respect back. Well, that's my story. There are a lot more details and I've overly simplified things here, but I hope my point comes across. Take charge of your life and stop laying down in front of the bus as if that was noble. No one will respect you until you respect yourself and being the only one fighting to keep a marriage afloat is a sure sign that it's already dead and you are trying to revive a corpse. Stop being a martyr! With respect, Steve Steve, Thank you for your kind words toward me. They are greatly and genuinely appreciated on this end. I can relate to the story you shared regarding your standing up for yourself. Very respectfully done. In August of this year, I drew that "proverbial" line in the sand, and told him that enough was enough. I informed him in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable for him to treat me the way he was in every single regard, that pornography was not permitted in my home, that I had proof of (only one of many) indiscretions, and that it wasn't a matter of "me being right," as he would always put it, but rather a matter of what is REAL, and WHAT is TRUE. I told him to get real or get OUT, and if he didn't I would. Money or no money, house or no house. His disclosures were few and far between, and were laced with deception (he was always the victim of another woman's advances) rage, anger, and blame. It was traumatic (for me,) but the disclosures did come. Once I drew that line, and had my butt half way out the door, literally....everything changed. Respect immediately returned, but why was it lost to begin with? I do not believe for one moment that I know the entire story, (could seriously be in the 100's of indescretions, as it was with his ex wife) but since I have continued my journey of healing and self acceptance, I know how to keep myself safe. Not many people here locally know my situation, but there are just enough that do. So, now he has a choice too. The jig is up, and the news is out as they say....I am in total agreement with you that martyrdom in marriage is for the birds, and truly benefits no one in that scenario. I also agree that no one should "nobly" lie down in front of the bus with the back of their hand to their forehead, with the whole "poor me" thing going on..... That is what I have been living with. I chose to NOT tolerate all his foolishness and abuse, and he has a choice as to whether he can live with that (honestly) or not. Pardon the redundancy, but Get real or get OUT. In a spooky way, my H reminds me of Wade. Denial, denial, denial, more denial, anger, rage, deflection and projection of blame... (though I am going by what I have read as the show does not air here until 7PM.) Men haters and women haters that continually bash the opposite seem to have a slight inability to look within....I mean, if every man in my life that I have known is a loser, cheater, liar, etc....then there has to be a common denominator somewhere in my own make up, I'm thinking. I am a Narcissist Magnet. I was raised by them, and have chosen them as mates. That's my f ault, not theirs. I just wish I would have realized this tears ago, but I am grateful for the knowledge today. Coming to terms with all of this is hard work, and I can think of nothing more hellish or grueling, but it is what it is. I can admit that most men in my life have fit into the above categories, but then again, I made my choices. I am NOT a victim. I am a survivor. The irony of that is, I do NOT blame the men....but I have to be careful not to accept ALL of the blame----rather---just my part. I can't control them or their choices--only mine. I won't lie in front of the bus....I'd rather live under a bridge.....but if I can make the transition a smoother one, rather than uproot my daughter without explanation or proper funding, then what does that accomplish? One day at a time, one moment at a time, one breath at a time. |
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November 19, 2007, 6:14 pm PST
Quote From: gemlover63 It really upsets me when women are forced to take "some" of the blame for what their husbands and boyfriends do. Does anyone see that all the Dr.Phils, Phil Donahues and Oprahs pound into your head that your must accept your part of the problem. This is why it takes so long to get out of a bad relationship. We have to spend so much mental energy trying to understand where we went wrong. "IT IS STUPID!" No one can blame themselves for the actions of others. This is very, very true. However, it takes more than one to fail at a union. Two separate parties/entities... Perhaps if the faithful party was deceived, and hurt by the acting out of the unfaithful party, the union fails. It might not be the fault of the faithful party, but the union clearly failed. Perhaps it was a poor choice to marry in the first place....who knows. All I can say from experience I can only control myself. Am I responsible for the crap my H did? Hell no. Was I perfect? NO. Did I deserve it? NO.... I believe it is rare that there is the PERFECT human anywhere, just hanging around, working or existing, and they're just perfection personified, and they have no accountability or responsibility nor do they have enough sense to make good choices.....because they are too busy being perfect. They have no role whatsoever...... I need to find someone like that to give me lessons, because I have yet to meet anyone that even comes close. |
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November 19, 2007, 6:45 pm PST
Quote From: marylee50 Oh my God in heaven! I think I would pack up my child and go to a womens shelter before I spent another night with a guy that would blow off accusations of his own little girl, getting abused. What a jerk, low life,trashy person he is. That's something a real man/father would not do under any circumstances. I hope by now you've found another way to get through life that does NOT include him...Also your mother sucks. If this story is true, you need to kick her ass right out of your life also. Thank you so much for your concern. I am doing all I can to improve the situation for my daughter and I. I have checked in to all my local resources, and have researched the laws that govern where I live, as have my therapists. The shelters are on waiting lists. They are located far from here, and I am unfamiliar with the child care resources that would be available to her after she attended primarily non-english speaking schools, while I am working. I am afraid to remove her from all she knows that IS true and IS real. (Primarily me) In addition, if I place myself in a shelter, his rights would trump mine if he is in regular standard housing, so then he gets her anyway....I would get visitation. I am thinking that that is NOT in the best interest of my child. I am absolutely beside myself regarding my H's reaction to my accusations of what happened to our little girl....but the accused was his son. How would anyone feel if your child was accused of harming another of your children? Believe me, I am not, not, NOT taking his side. I took my child's side, and immediately stopped the abuse the moment I learned about it by removing the child from my home. I love my mother more than anything--she's my mom. She is unable to see her mistakes, and like my H, re-writes history as she speaks. She "doesn't remember any collusion" between she and my H..."except for the time I was overreacting to....." She'll never admit it, how she pits people one to another, and how she is jealous that my H wanted to start putting his family before his job, and now she is betrayed...blah, blah. I will always love her with all my heart, but at a safer distance. I am grateful for the kindness and support I have found here. |
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November 20, 2007, 5:30 am PST
I asked my H to sit down and watch this with me last night, (a big sacrifice for him, but he claims to want to get better) and I think it hit a little too close to home for both of us. The denials, accusations, pure madness and rage within the show had rendered both of us silent. We've not spoken about it yet. The only thing that he muttered was something about how I was "right," and I needed him to watch the show to show him how "right" I was. I just wanted to watch the dialog, (which is shockingly similar to ours) through others going through the same thing. The anger and rage I saw in Wade, I have seen in my husband. That glazed over---coldness, almost homicidal "I'd do anything if you'd just shut the "F" up and get out of my face" look out of his eyes was a familiar stare. I saw alarming and chilling similarities. For me though, it is easier to see this within Wade, because I didn't fall in love with him. I never saw his good side, and I never married him. Since I have been recovery, my husband's folly has become more transparent to me, so I am better able to see the similarities. My husband had gotten into severe bondage/pain pornography, and was turned on by the whole choking thing which I had zero tolerance for from the start. I am more bewildered about watching tonight's show fearing that it could trigger him... Can these people change? Once a cheater, always a cheater? I no longer believe that all the hope and prayer in the world can help those that do not want to be helped....I keep hoping that my H can be the exception and not the rule, and that he can overcome his Narcissism and get real, because it's a lonelly place for both of us. We're civil, and friendly to one another on a sincere level, but there has been no intimacy or trust in months. I grew up and spent my 20's as a consciousless little child using anyone in my path. I was a rebellious drifter, and party girl with no regard for myself or anyone else....though I do not recall consciously hurting anyone other than myself. It was a long journey, beginning to really "grow up" in my 30's and at 42, I am on the right track, and making progress. There is not anything, and I do mean anything that would make me want to go down the old paths again. The sense of instant gratification is no longer there. So, if I can change, (and I was a tornado) then why can't he? Good people do bad things, so what now..... I still have volumes to go, but I find the journey more rewarding (althought hellish) than the old acting out behaviors. Am I a pathological optomist? |
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November 20, 2007, 11:15 am PST
Quote From: shylioness Hi, I'm a 41 year old woman who doesn't want to join in this discussion because "things are getting better". but still....I don't know if I'm fooling myself.
Like you, I too sat down and watched yesterday's episode of Dr. Phil, Part One of the Wade and Michelle story.
Like you, I saw many disturbing similarities.
Oddly, I did not have to ask my partner to watch the show. He had recorded it on his own for us to watch together. This is unusual because he thinks shows like Dr. Phil are a waste of time.
I had seen most of the show at work. (I work in a television station) and I watched as much as I could because I was so captured by this couple and the parallels I saw. I didn't want to believe it.
I have been with my boyfriend for five years. We bought a house together a year and a half ago. A couple of months ago I found out that he cheated on me sporadically, trying to meet women online for a three year period prior to our buying the house.
I was devastated and told him we were done because I couldn't trust him anymore. Everything I thought we had, the foundation of our very relationship was a lie.
But then...I stayed. I stayed because I had one thin rope to cling to, the fact that the email account I found with all the old activity on it did not have anything bad on it since we started looking for houses. For the past two years he's only used it as an ebay contact address.
And I stayed because he told me that he thought i was the reason he was finally able to start breaking free of this longtime destructive compulsion. He went to counseling with his ex-wife who thought he was a sex addict. He doesn't believe he IS a sex addict, but he does admit he has a problem with sexual compulsions.
He has lots of porn...deviant porn. And he keeps buying it like a porno packrat. He says it "keeps him honest".
I have come to grips with the porn because I never see him watching it. Ever. It's like it doesn't exist and I figure that he's a grown man and if it doesn't affect me or our relationship, then it's harmless enough. Also, I've never seen porn as an evil. I prefer the tamer stuff and only every once in awhile. he's just more hard core than me.
He says he's "sexually curious".
Ugh.
But here we are...trying....I'm trying to understand him and I so "got it" when Michelle said she might be able to deal with his addictions and compulsions, but she can't deal with the lying. That's what bothers me most too and I wonder what is wrong with me that I don't just walk out on him. I feel very bad about myself for staying, but then again...if he admits to his failings, telling me and showing me how much he loves and values me, then how do I throw away what could be a positive future because of past transgressions?
I think my boyfriend is struggling to come out of a place where he cheated and lied and like Dr. Phil told Wade, lying has become such a habit, that he doesn't even think about it anymore and, in fact, has started lying to himself and believing himself. it's a dark hole one can fall into and if you let yourself fall far enough, you stop seeing daylight...heck, you just stop seeing.
But I think he's stopped his fall and is trying to crawl out. I'd like to say I'm at the top cheering him on, but I think I'm in the damn hole with him...struggling right along with him.
I don't know if that's good or bad for me, but I believe he's a good man and more importantly I think he WANTS to be a good man.
As we watched the show yesterday he asked me to pause it at the point where Dr. Phil asked Wade if he loved his wife more than pornography. I paused the show and my boyfriend looked me in the eye, touched my face and said, "I love you more than cheating on you. I admit that I think about things I shouldn't but I won't do it."
He meant this as an assurance, but that assurance came with a backward slap. He saw my reaction to the caveat, "I think about things I shouldn't" and he hurried to say, "I need to be honest with you."
Right. Fine. Great.
I need the honesty. It's a sign of respect for someone to be honest with another and how can we address our problems if we don't know what they are, but....I so wish he didn't think about "things"...heck, let me stop guilding the lily, I wish he didn't think about having sex with other women so much. I wish fidelity was not a daily battle for him.
He says he doesn't think about particular people, but he thinks about fooling around. It's something he used to do all the time...another habit...like the lying.
I want him to get help, but he doesn't want to see a therapist. He says his previous wife took him to two different therapists and they made him feel worse than a pervert. That makes me sad. If he has behavioural problems, he needs help, not condemnation. I know he hates the darker aspects of himself, but as he says, it's a constant battle.
I am cautiously optimistic, but I...well, I don't know....I really don't. It's scary. I have told myself and him that if I find out he's cheated on me in any way since we moved in together then we need to go our separate ways because I can't "rebuild" our relationship again. Life's too short to constantly be rebuilding things. If I build something with someone, I don't want them constantly knocking it down. I'm too darn old for this.
Well...this was a ramble, but after seeing the show and reading all these comments, yours struck me and so I was moved to add my voice to the cacophony of hurting and confused women here.
My boyfriend asked me to tape today's Dr. Phil, the second installment on Wade and Michelle, so I guess we'll sit down and watch that together as well, although I think if Wade is found to be a sociopath then my boyfriend will stop relating to this couple's problems and decide nothing that is said applies to him because he's not a sociopath.
good luck to all of us.
Hi. Wow. So many similarities.... Quote: I want him to get help, but he doesn't want to see a therapist. He says his previous wife took him to two different therapists and they made him feel worse than a pervert. That makes me sad. If he has behavioural problems, he needs help, not condemnation. I know he hates the darker aspects of himself, but as he says, it's a constant battle. I agree that when people need help, it is scary enough. I've been there, and I remember. The last thing anyone needs when reaching out is to feel like they are being judged. That said, finding the right kind of help is the key issue. The right kind of help to me would equal empowerment, empathy, and accountability. At the same time, they need to be sincere in the true desire of their heart. It has been my experience all too often that some people, (yes, I said SOME) just want to get out of the trouble they are in, and they will say and/or do anything they can to get out of the jam they've gotten themselves into. If that includes help, then they'll get help, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Their false self will charm, manipulate and do whatever it takes, but may not be revealed. If one's desire is to really change their life, then they are willing to risk losing it all to find the peace they have been lacking. Quote: Oddly, I did not have to ask my partner to watch the show. He had recorded it on his own for us to watch together. This is unusual because he thinks shows like Dr. Phil are a waste of time. To me, (and maybe only to me as it would apply in my own situation) that would be a HUGE red flag, and more deceptive manipulation to make me believe what he wants me to believe. It is one thing for a non-watcher to voluntarily tune in to a particular Dr. Phil show, (and perhaps seeking praise for doing so) but it is another thing entirely to seek help and change on a personal and individual level. Quote: I so wish he didn't think about "things"...heck, let me stop guilding the lily, I wish he didn't think about having sex with other women so much. I wish fidelity was not a daily battle for him. It shouldn't be a daily struggle for him, but it is. The hardest thing for me to realize was and still is that it isn't your problem, it's his. I know how you feel, and it is a very low feeling. For me it has manifested itself with constant weighing, dieting, picking, and tweezing. Yes, I am getting help, but I never feel perfect enough.....That is the effect of Porn, and their constant fantasies of being with other women. Quote: As we watched the show yesterday he asked me to pause it at the point where Dr. Phil asked Wade if he loved his wife more than pornography. I paused the show and my boyfriend looked me in the eye, touched my face and said, "I love you more than cheating on you. I admit that I think about things I shouldn't but I won't do it."
He meant this as an assurance, but that assurance came with a backward slap. He saw my reaction to the caveat, "I think about things I shouldn't" and he hurried to say, "I need to be honest with you."
Please do not take this personally, but if my H said that to me, I would want to puke. OMG. To me, that is more patronizing and manipulation....but that is only me...I speak for no one else. It's kinda like the dog and pony show... Quote: He has lots of porn...deviant porn. And he keeps buying it like a porno packrat. He says it "keeps him honest".
I have come to grips with the porn because I never see him watching it. Ever. It's like it doesn't exist and I figure that he's a grown man and if it doesn't affect me or our relationship, then it's harmless enough. Also, I've never seen porn as an evil. I prefer the tamer stuff and only every once in awhile. he's just more hard core than me.
He says he's "sexually curious". Wow. Maybe my H has an intellectual twin that I wasn't aware of. :::laughing::: Seriously. You need to shut that crap down NOW. It is evil, it is dark, it is degrading, it is addicting, it is misogynistic, and so many other horrible things. Believe me, I am NO prude. Not even close. Quote: My boyfriend asked me to tape today's Dr. Phil, the second installment on Wade and Michelle, so I guess we'll sit down and watch that together as well, although I think if Wade is found to be a sociopath then my boyfriend will stop relating to this couple's problems and decide nothing that is said applies to him because he's not a sociopath.
B-I-N-G-O ! I am expecting the very same thing, but I have a feeling that there might be a twist further along, maybe tomorrow that is blow it all wide open. I can already visualize my husband on his high horse of morality, asking me what the hell I was thinking when I asked him to watch the series, and how that couple and us have NOTHING in common. All in all, I think that your BF is just dropping little bread pieces for you to gobble up as necessary, telling half truths...BUT I only feel that way based on your words, and the parallel I draw in my own life.God Bless us all, indeed....
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November 21, 2007, 6:52 pm PST
Well, I just now watched the second part. I didn't last night because my H's behavior was a bit off....very touchy in a verbal way, jerky body language, and the like. It is like I am having to walk on eggshells around him again all the time, hoping he will not blow up, but prepared if he does. He watched it though, last night, and is intersted in tonight's outcome----strange for a non-watcher. He is/was supposedly on the honest journey, but the reality of this show has made him very grumpy and Irritable Very defensive toward me. I ask him what's up in his head, and the blankess I saw in Wade's eyes, is what I witnessed from my H. He has admitted that since he has supposedly been in (psuedo) recovery, there is still continued use of pornography, he is itno voyuerism, stares down into women's cars, and looks away if they catch him., However, it the woman catches his glaze, and smiles back, then it is like a "HIT,' Bonus for him. He is still whacking off to images of other women, either home, on tv, or on the internet. Today, he admitted to me that he likes to watch me sleep, (like if I doze off on the couch) and he likes to whack off while watching me sleep. I had to stop checking, on his internet history cache, I had to realize that doing this kind of detective was not hurting him, but it was destroying me. I had to stop checking the internet phone bills, because the inconsistences were too hard for me to get through. He only acts this was when he has been caught, then he drops the half-truths about "coming across something pornographic" while doing searches for houses.... (??) Yeah, right. Last I checked, our local MLS didn't have links to porn. These are the kind of nibbles he drops on my (to keep me distracted while he comes up with his story) before he gets to the big stuff. He is only getting better at this game he masterminds, and when things do not go as he wants them to go....financially, emoptionally, or whatever, then he goes off, and it is all my fault. Anger, rage, guilt, and punishment for his self loathing. It is all happening again. He blames me because he can't undress women with his staring, he can't do the porn that he wants to to, he can't have emotionally (or otherwise) intimate encounters with women, and so somehow, I he is blaming me because I am keeping him from what he wants and loves and needs. Why be married then? Why then tell me that I'm the only one, and always have been, but since we have been in sexual recovery, we are told to remain abstinant, which is OK by me. We live in separate rooms as it is, and if we ever do cuddle up on the couch or whatnot, I need to be made aware that he is aroused, and then the grinding starts. I immediately move up, over, or away, and he takes it offensively, like I just don't want him, makes it all my fault but deflecting and projection on me. Also, since I have struggled with Chronic insomnia for my whole life, I do take Ambien, and it (I believe) was his favorite, because I would be out cold asleep in our bed, and he would wake me up,and I would awaken in a total blackout and he would claim that I was receptive, (which may or may be the case) and so he would have sex with my, typically sodomy, and I would have no memory, and that was somewhat comical for him, but he, to this moment, claims that I was receptive, so it wasnt rape, assault, or anything else that he was not. I am numb, angry, lonely, and I feel trapped. It may come across that I have ot all together, but I wouldn't wish this hell on anyone. It is pure hell. The most ironic thing I experiece from all of this that there are very, very, few people who believe me, my family thinks I'm overreacting, his family (if they knew) would blame me, since we were divorced prior to marriage, and divorce is against their RADICAL Christian ways. Damn, that woman is satan herself, there's some good TV. She'd demean Dr. Phil, and try to convert the entire US. This spiritual abuse is what has made him what he was today. In any case, all of this is nearly too much for me right now. I hate living in constant fear.m Not fear of him, just fearful all the time. The plan is in the works. Thanks for listening. |
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