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Messages By: lissabob

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January 23, 2007, 4:21 pm PST

01/19 Young Moms Ask the Experts

Quote From: gwarrior6

You know, there are DOZENS of websites out there that have a plethora of information about breastfeeding, how to, why it's beneficial, blah blah blah.  What you don't see a lot of is why it's important not to coerce a woman into bf if that's not the best option at the time (medical conditions, milk not coming in, etc).  There's also a lack of research about the nutritional value of the formulas.  There are many lobbyists who will use the research to control legislation of milk banks and provisions of places to breastfeed, and so on.  So some of the info you rely on is bogus because the facts are either fabricated or slanted to some extent.
And this proves that YOU are educated (simply because you work in healthcare) how?? I don't think hundreds of studies done over decades (proving time and again the benefits of bfing) should be discounted. And you're right there isn't much research into formula. Isn't it terrifying to you that the children of the last several decades are in essence part of the biggest science experiement ever? And how would you know if the info **I** use is bogus? Perhaps YOUR info is bogus (let's see.. how many dr's have I heard of saying that milk is no longer beneficial past x months... a LOT). Do you think the AAP is bogus? WHO? They have lists of research studies on their sites. But I am guessing you discount all that because as a "healthcare worker" you're smarter than them right?
 
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January 23, 2007, 6:20 pm PST

lots of moms unfortunately..

Quote From: gwarrior6

Now, who DOESN"T know the benefits of breastfeeding, it everywhere!  I also agree with penny, and it sucks that the nurse would be rude to her after her choice was made.  That's inexcusable.  If the mom is depressed, she can't take care of the baby, if the baby can't breastfeed, it needs formula.  It's all about the baby's well-being and not to satisfy prissy "progressive" militants.
Lurk around on a pregnancy/birth board and you'll see TONS of misinformation being passed around. I discussed with my local WIC supervisor an instance of a woman who was going to ff because she "knew formula had more nutrition than bm". @@ In a state with great bfing numbers and some pretty well informed Dr's (well some of them anyways).. there's still plenty of women with misconceptions, misinformation, and prejudices against bfing. And if the mom is depressed bfing is a great way to help (helps with hormones.) She can also take one of many good antidepressants rather than wean. If the baby can't breastfeed the mom can work with an IBCLC or bfing peer counselor (at LEAST) to try and get the baby to breast. If that doesn't work there is also trying to pump so the baby is getting some bm. You're right it's about the baby's well being- but there's far more options than, oops mom/baby can't/won't do it- switch to formula. I would think as someone so "informed" you would know that.
 
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January 23, 2007, 6:23 pm PST

01/19 Young Moms Ask the Experts

Quote From: purplepenny

Wanna hear something funny? I was talking to my mom last night about this...I had colic UNTIL my mom stopped breast feeding. Once I was put on formula I ended up being just fine.


Could have been oversupply, food sensitivity, foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, scheduling, low supply.. any number of things. ;-)
 
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January 23, 2007, 6:33 pm PST

01/19 Young Moms Ask the Experts

Quote From: gwarrior6

I'm saying there are a lot of organizations that are very militant about forcing breastfeeding into the political arena, and they skew information and distribute it.  I agree that breastfeeding is the first choice, but it certainly isn't the ONLY choice. I'm EDUCATED because i've DONE the research, not because i work in healthcare, there's a difference.  It's presumptuous that you assume everyone is ignorant and in need of guidance just because they CHOOSE to ff, or disagree with you.
I've said it before, I HAVE the education on breastfeeding!  I know, I WORK in healthcare.  I KNOW breast is best, however, i will NEVER guilt a mother into doing ANYTHING.  THAT is called harrassment.  Please respond to me directly.  BTW, there has to be the 1% out there (if INDEED that is true, i believe the percentage is higher).

 

You know, there are DOZENS of websites out there that have a plethora of information about breastfeeding, how to, why it's beneficial, blah blah blah.  What you don't see a lot of is why it's important not to coerce a woman into bf if that's not the best option at the time (medical conditions, milk not coming in, etc).  There's also a lack of research about the nutritional value of the formulas.  There are many lobbyists who will use the research to control legislation of milk banks and provisions of places to breastfeed, and so on.  So some of the info you rely on is bogus because the facts are either fabricated or slanted to some extent.

 

Let's review- the first post you say you're educated and KNOW because you're in healthcare (for all I know you're a secretary.. I mean seriously being in healthcare doesn't mean squat.)

When I called that into question you went on to slam MY sources saying that some of the info is bogus- without know where I get my info or what sites/books/studying I may have done. Talk about calling the kettle black hmm? You're assuming that I'm ignorant simply because I called your knowledge into question (and when someone posts something like "I'm in healthcare" without any way to back it up I instantly get suspicious sorry. That's a pretty transparent way to try and lend your words more weight in a debate without supplying ANY information.) And I'd love to know how hundreds of studies have been "skewed" without someone calling them on it since it's all some huge conspiracy. So, you didn't just say that there were organizations that would twist info- you specifically said that MY info was "bogus" and implied that YOU were the informed one. I would LOVE to know where you get your info that you're so superior. ;-)

 

 

 
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January 24, 2007, 1:46 pm PST

not bad? REALLY?

Quote From: gwarrior6

Benefits of bf have been out a while.  They're not necessarily "new'(from the mid to late 90s).  That's why i question it.  Cow's milk isn't "bad" for the digestive system, but it can provoke allergies to the protein in cows milk.  If it was "bad", your mother would never have survived.  I don't think you know what to sort thru in all this info.

You say you're an RN? How much studying HAVE you done on breastfeeding and on pediatrics? EVERYTHING I have ever read says that for an INFANT cow's milk (in quantity) is indeed bad for the digestive system, and can be really bad for the WHOLE body. For instance:

Cow's milk is more specific to a baby cow than a baby human. Cow's milk formula is based on cow's milk but has been engineered to be closer to human milk (still a ways off, but closer). Many infants still have problems with cow's milk formula (allergies, GI problems, etc.). Babies who are exposed to cow's milk before their first birthday are more likely to be anemic, have diarrhea or vomiting, and/or experience an allergic reaction (the proteins in milk are more numerous than those in other milk products, such as the yogurt). The excessive protein load in cow's milk can also overload a baby's kidneys. It is deficient in vitamins C, E, and copper. It is harder to digest as well, often causing intestinal blood loss. A number of studies have also indicated that early introduction of cow's milk may contribute to the development of Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus.

Also:

In 1992, the American Academy of Pediatricians released their statement regarding the use of whole cow's milk during infancy. The findings were published in "Pediatrics" volume 89, number 6 in June of 1992. Plainly stated, the Academy recommended that whole cow's milk and low-iron formulas not be used during the first year of life.

Infants fed whole cow's milk receive inadequate amounts of
Vitamin E, iron, essential fatty acids, and excessive amounts of protein, sodium, and potassium. These levels may be too high for the infant's system to handle. Additionally, whole cow's milk protein and fat are more difficult for an infant to digest and absorb.

The most dramatic effects are on iron levels in the body. Infants fed
breast milk or iron fortified formula have normal iron levels. Recent studies show infants often have depleted levels when started on cow's milk at six months of age.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1594357

 

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/106/5/S2/1302

Nutritional Characteristics

Because cows' milk is intended for calves, which have a much higher growth velocity than infants, the content of nutrients essential for growth, like protein and some minerals are much higher (typically 2-3 times) than in human milk. Therefore, cows' milk has a very high renal solute load that might cause dehydration and hypernatremia during illness (see the article on renal solute load by Fomon in this supplement). The high protein content will contribute considerably to the total protein intake, if milk intake is high. During the complementary feeding period, some infants have an excessive protein intake, which might have adverse effects (see article on the risks of excessive protein intake by Michaelsen in this supplement). Cows' milk also has a low content of essential fatty acids, zinc, vitamin C, and niacin and a high content of saturated fatty acids. Cows' milk has a negative effect on the iron status of the infant. The iron content is low, it is poorly absorbed, and cows' milk that has not been heat-treated, can cause gastrointestinal bleeding, especially during the first 6 months of life. There is uncertainty about how important this problem is during the last half of infancy.3,4

 

So how is it not bad again? Do you have something that refutes this?

 
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January 28, 2007, 9:01 pm PST

01/19 Young Moms Ask the Experts

Quote From: tripmom2

 

Hi, I am a mom of 5 children.  My oldest is a nine year old boy, then seven year old triplets and lastly but not least a 10 month old girl.  After I watched "ask the expert "show I felt like I miss parented my children, especially my triplet boys.  The doctors on the panel, Dr. Sears and family were very informative but their advice on never to let your baby cry would have made me feel helpless and totally out of control when my boys were babies.  In the case of my triplets, someone was always crying.  They weren't neglected. It was just they had to take turns in everything.  When it was naptime or bedtime I couldn't cuddle them til they fell asleep.  I had to put them in their crib, touch them, console them  and then leave so they learned how to fall asleep on their own.  They cried, but as long as I knew they were fed, changed and not sick I had to believe they were ok.  At first, before I did this routine they were all in bed with me including my oldest and my husband and I were falling out of bed. Then we tried rocking my babies til they fell asleep.  That took close to 2 hours every nap and bedtime.  It was insane and we had had enough.  I had to teach my oldest (then 2years old) to stay in his own bed and he cried.  It tore my heart out but I knew that in a week or so it will be much calmer at bedtime.  Teaching my children to be able to fall asleep on their own was one of the most difficult things my husband and I had to do but today when it is bedtime, in a 15 mins. they are all asleep.  Dr. Sears and his sons had one point of view with this issue, but I am sure that there are reputable excellent doctors that don't have this viewpoint.  I would be interested to see a follow up show on parenting with a different viewpoint.  I'm always eager to learn more.  Thank-you

((HUGS)) I am against the CIO method in most cases, but I also know there's a huge difference between an infant and 2 yo, and there's also a limit to what we as parents can handle. With triplets... wow. Don't beat yourself up!
 

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