Messages By: momakababe

And I don't disagree that abuse is a cycle or that it's passed down or it comes from trauma but as an adult in this day & age abuse isn't exactly something that people no longer talk about.  I think once we see that we're out of control that it's up to deal with it.  If we already have a child or children & we see we're having a problem with anger then I think that it's our duty to the kids to break the cycle.  If I realized I had a drinking problem I'd feel the same way.  The kids must be protect & that's even from their parent until they've worked threough whatever had caused it or it's under control.  I do believe that it  could probably caused by trauma though.   

you really do have trouble not calling names & being the nasty person like the mom on TV don't you?  & apparently I'm not the only "jerk" who doesn't get you.  You answered my post but quoted someone else who'd answered you & I know others have addressed you as well.  You see you copy & pasted what you wanted from my post & left out parts you chose to ignore.  I'm not sure what part of this you didn't understand & so to recap ALL of what was said from my post 

  

"Now you can see from Dr. Phil's reaction & everyone else here that you've got some real problems & you need to see a professional.  I understand if you're dealing with the residule effects of abuse from your own childhood that you may be raging but you're an adult now & you've got choices & options.  The kids DO NOT.  How can you feel more sorry for this mother than the kids who are sitting ducks?  You said "you don't know what that kind of anger is like" but her kids do though don't they?  Or they know what it's like to have it lavished on them.  Is that what you do too?  Do you feel more empathy for yourself than your kids?   

   

The best part of this show is that all those that come here feeling as you do & being abusive to their kids can see & then do something about it.  You're an adult you can DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. " 

  

I mentioned children in an attempt to make you see if you do have kids that you're repeating a cycle.  If you don't have kids then that isn't an issue for you yet is it?  Clearly from your answer to me & others here you do have anger management problems.  If you have more empathy for the mother in this show today then again I say YOU NEED HELP because your kids (if &/or when you have them) or this womans kids shouldn't have to pay for the abuse you suffered.  It isn't their fault either!  I understand that you feel the same rage as this woman & this is the connection for you I DO GET THIS but you were clearly also in the position of the daughters & I'd imagine you'd feel even MORE empathy for them since without help they will grow up like you did & have the same anger issue you do!  These children are innocent & at the mercy of this mother much the same as you were innocent as a kid.  They don't have any control or no voice in this but she & you do!  YOU & THIS woman have choices to now make in seeking help.  These children do NOT HAVE THAT OPTION!  As I said earlier I understand you're dealing with rage from having been abused I get that just fine.  What you don't seem to get is that YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP!  Until you seek help & are well enough so that you are no longer walking through the door "ready  to explode" because you're so angry you've no place having children & really you're a danger to society at large as well as yourself.   

  

I get the reason you are having the problem but as Dr. Phil pointed out to this woman it's just an excuse & you know what you're doing & you know it's wrong.  You couldn't control what happened as a kid, but you're not a kid any more & now that the you're continuing the cycle of raging anger you do have the CONTROL OF SEEKING HELP. As I told someone else who DID recognize her problem here on the boards (which I find really brave btw) admitting the problem & seeking help in my opinion is the first step to really recovering.   

I'm sorry I do hear what you're saying & I understand your feeling of being out of control.  With that said I believe that if you see that you've got a problem then for you to really be taking "full responsibility for your actions" & not make excuses for what you do that you really will seek the help you need.  The ability in "finding the courage" should be in loving your son "with everything you have".  I heard Dr. Phil at one point say something about this being like an addiction & in some ways I do agree that this is like using behavior modification when quiting smoking.  Prior to quiting when a smoker is in the process of making their quit plan or setting up their quiting program you need to think about what you're going to do when faced with the urge to smoke.  We know how it feels when it starts to take over & your mind plays games because it's almost a mind trick to talk yourself into "just 1".  We know it's going to happen & so we've got to plan ahead to deal with it.  You say it "scares me to see me get so angry with him".  So this is an image in your mind.  Take that image & picture it & start thinking while you're not in the rage of how you could handle it better.  Think of this new image  over & over & over & then if the time arises use what you've practiced.   This has helped many smokers past those spots.  This is not the WHOLE quit program though & you should seek help to get at the core of why you're having this problem.  This is just a situational behavior modification tool. 

As a stay at home mother of (nearly grown now) 3 boys, 2 of which are twins, I can honestly say we all lose our temper & say things we don't mean, but that was not the case here.   This woman wasn't just losing her temper & yelling on occasion she was screaming at the top of her lungs & demeaning, degrading & threatening bodily harm *all the time*.  Even when they were in the car the woman was out of control & a danger to herself, her children & others using her car as a weapon.  The difference here in what you've done is that you are being human & saying something you don't mean & then immediately apologized & STOPPED what you're doing.  This woman while she was on Dr.Phil still could hardly say what she was doing was not right and was claiming her actions were justified. When you start to lose control you do see & stop & you do a 180, this shows your kids you're human, but this woman only shows she's a bully who's capable of much more than the screaming.  Imagine the fear those little girls must face every day? 

You're venting on a public message board is the very least that society owe's a little girl who suffered while others allowed it to continue.  I know from first hand experience what it means to see a child being abused but only from afar & get involved like I should only for the very system put in place to help these kids fail them.  You see I live in New Jersey!  I don't know about the other states but this is the state where cxhildren have been turning up dead whil DFS has already been called & they're already "looking into & watching the family".  All a family needs to do is move to a new county & not even a new state & it's like a completely clean slate.  And the reporting & *watching* by the adults outside the family but around this child (parents of students at her school) would actually be "breaking the law" to find a way to locate the child after school hours to call DFS.   And then when it was realized there were people watching they were   gooonnnneeeeee.  They should all have to register like sex offenders so they are forever under scrutiny period.  I'm sorry if that politically incorrect but seeing all the children in the past few years turn up dead has a lasting impression & these children have no voice.    

  

We are the society that lets them down & so if you need to vent  here on a public message board you go right ahead because people need to hear it.   

If you can go to just 1 of your posts or at the start when you log on there should be a link that is the post just for you.  I agree though that these are the absolute WORST message boards I've had the misfortune of posting on.  Even when you click on your own name & go to your own post then you can't seem to get to that thread or place where you were.  The posts aren't numbered & so we can't leap through the posts to search for anything.  Whoever figured out this system needs to find another profession. 

Wow these boards are so screwed up that even the usernames for people are being left off.  These boards need some attention & the person responsible for the design of them really needs to rethink it all. 

 think you really need to seek some help & fast!  Yes I think social services should be called 1000 times a day if all we did was have a dream the neighbor did something hurtful to the kids.  I'd be the first to welcome them into my kitchen for a cup of coffee while I let them hear & talk to my kids!  And if I thought my kids were in danger of someone else or even me I'd take whatever messure I had to protect them & if I thought I was really UNABLE TO CONTROL MYSELF yes I'd put them where I knew they would be safe.  Loving my kids I'd send them away if it was me they needed protection from.  That's what a mother does she loves her children enough to do whats right not what looks good to the neighbors.  & it takes a lot more than feeding the kids to be nurturing & abuse doesn't always leave scars & bruises for people or teachers to see.

  

You said this woman who is "a neighbor" is a good mom but doesn't play well with the other moms?  & that's the reason that social services have been called 6 times in 3 yrs.?  & all those calls have been unfounded or "dropped"?  Well do you know how many times DFS screws up & abused kids fall through the cracks & die while be investigated?  You say this mother is a good mom but feels "everyone is evil and out to get her and nobody loves her"?  I say this is the real reason the neighbors are calling DFS & that they need to watch even closer!  And this mother has some SERIOUS mental issues & while I'm not a professional counselor or therapist I believe what you're describing is called " Schizophrenia "     She needs PROFESSIONAL help immediately & that is the ONLY way to help her.   For the neighbors not to call DFS is irresponsible & yes that is society letting down the CHILDREN.  They have no voice or choice in any of this & they should be protected at all costs & yes that included the cost of the mother.   

  

As for what I say to "Just imagine what that must have felt like to in one day, in one second, to find out in front of everyone that your husband hates the way you raise your children, and your children really don't love you and that you need help because what you think is right is deadly wrong because nobody has told you any different."  Well I say, I don't think how this womans husband felt about the way she's raising the kids is all that new to her do you?  I mean him yelling at her & trying to make her see (a lot like trying to make you see) how her child rearing is more like abuse didn't get him very far did it?  Did you hear him tellher if it wasn't for the kids he'd have walked a long time ago?  She didn't think all the fighting with him over her screaming at the kids etc. was his approval of her parenting skills did she?  & screaming at your kids & calling them every 4 letter word in the book didn't make her think it was endearing her to her childre & have them worshiping her did she?  I don't need anyone to tell me this If I get nasty, mouth & mean that's what I'm gonna get in return.   

  

I do understand that people of abuse come to believe that this is just the way everyone lives & they don't know better.  This is how it's passed from one generation to the next and this would have been even more true years ago because no one spoke of abuse.  This is just not the case any more.  As someone else had mentioned it still isn't always brought out into the light when there's abuse in a family, but what to look for, what abuse is, how to get help & that abuse is wrong is ALL OVER NOW.  If someone is sitting watching Dr. Phil (like your "neighbor") she is no longer ignorant or  "not having been told any different".  Now if she still doesn't see her problem she's actually just in denial that she has a problem & she needs to STOP & think about her actions & what she needs to do to keep her children safe & yes that would be even from herself!  I imagine it's much easier for her to blame her neighbors for being nosiey or just not liking her or whatever other reason she'll come up with for them having been responsible & calling soical services.  Looking at myself I know the only way to help this woman on TV or anyone like "your neighbor" is to tell her she needs to seek help & of course if I'm close enough to know where you live to protect her children by calling DFS!  If she were in her right mind she's want her children protects at all costs & that would include her own cost.  I think you want to look back at all the posts of how these parents who abused their children came up with the justification for what they were doing & then rethink you neighbors actions & views on what's happening with her "neighbors".  Perhaps her view is distorted like you say & she just doesn't see!    You said "So in a word this is all of our faults because we are a society of not getting involved. "  You're right but people should get involved by making certain the children are all safe & if that means calling social services then yes that's what they should do.    

I'm not a victim of abuse nor do I abuse, but we have had this effect us here because we are loving & nurturing *responsible* parents.  Knowing a child is in danger we couldn't turn our backs on her & do nothing but frankly the laws aren't friendly to people interviening.  You see all these parents who become so defensive of the why they are the way they are & get upset because we want to just take their kids are always crying "I've got rights".  It's in the name of our "rights" & protecting these parents "right to privacy" etc. that the kids are left to the abuse.   

  

It's been years now but I've always been close to my children & they tell me *everything*.  If someone suggests that "your parents don't need to know" it would prompt them to come straight home & tell me first thing.  This is how the story of a girl being abused was related to me.  She'd shown my son bruises on the play ground & it had been sparked by a program on drinking they'd just had in class.  So I called the school & spoke with her teacher who had said she'd suspected & told me why she did which she really wasn't allowed to do.  Just like this story on Dr. Phil what she'd been told was just shocking & frankly now that she had another adult confirming the outrage of it she needed to get it off her chest.  She said she'd already called DFS & they were coming into school that day etc. etc.  Of course DFS will check to see that this abuser is still in family therapy & then they leave the kid there because they don't want to break up the family & he/she is seeking the help they need.   

Now I'd told my son that it was just SO SMART of him to come home & tell me & that if she came to him with anything else to please let me know right away.  Clearly she'd been told in school during this drinking program to "tell someone" & this was her cry for help.  Fast forward a week & the kids are getting off for the spring break for a week.  This girl would be home with her abuser for a solid week!  This isn't something that is a part of our lives here & so it hadn't dawned on me.  But when my son came home that day like all the other 3rd graders he'd gone out in joy to play.  All of a sudden I see him do a 180 in the yard & came back to the house & he said "Mom I forgot to tell you what happened today at school".   And he starts telling me how this little girl did not do well on her report card & that she knew "she was gonna get a real beating for this now".  I was FRANTIC because it would be a full week before I could contact his teacher to get an address or any way to find out where she was to send DFS to check on her.  though I did try to reach his teach & I & several other teachers were breaking all kinds of rules/laws to reach out that night to help.  I finally called in a favor of a friend I know who had connections to addresses etc. & I did indeed call DFS & I took names of who I was speaking with & insisted they check on that girl that night!   

  

It was so unnerving & that night I'd toldthis all to a couple who we'd invited over for drinks & we all just sort of sat there in disbelief that a "parent could do such a thing" & at the helplessness we all felt.  Please know that there are those that saw & heard & wanted to intervien &many will try but it's this same damn system that lets you all down that protects the parent that can "hate her own child so much".   I was prepared to watch for this girl for the rest of her school years if I need to call again, but they moved in less than 3 months.  I was told that where they went would have no idea of what had happened because of their "right to privacy".   I know it's not the same pain but believe me when I say it pains the nurturing parents to be helpless to rescuing the children from the hell we know they're in.  It makes for many sleepless nights for us.  :(  But you're all always in our thoughts & prayers & yes I'll always speak out against this & for the "rights of the child" who has no voice.  It's my duty as an adult.   

As I'd said I do think we're all human & at times lose our temper or act out because of fear.  The image of my son on 1 Halloween will just stay with me the rest of my life.  he was about 4 yrs. old & of course he was 1 of a set of twins.  This kid to this day is so full of a happy like electric for lack of a better description that he would get excited & be like that jittery excited not thinking or able to listen kind of happy (an excited happy go lucky).  Anyway he was just so excited to be trick or treating that year & as we'd get to each house the kid would just lose control run FULL SPEED up the STEPS & then back DOWN & up & down drive ways, front lawns etc.  & being a concerned mom as I'm watching him do this (with my baby in the stroller) there is panic shooting through me every time he'd come running down because I was waiting for him to go behind over tea Kettle you know?  Ikept telling him & telling him "honey you're going to fall & really get hurt & I kept getting down to hislevel etc. etc.  all the stuff we're suppose to do & he'd hear me but then get so excited again go right back to it.  & at one point he looked like he was gonna take flight off a set of very high steps & I guess I was so scared I'd grabbed him gave a little shake to him & through gritted teeth said "STOP IT".  I will never forget those crock tears inside that "Heman" character mask EVER.  Like you it tore me up & so I just hugged him & said I was so sorry.  I tried to explain how scared I was that he would get really hurt.  After I had him & his brother hold hands so they'd be together & it would slow him down.  This worked but I think I'd been so blind with fear it hadn't dawned on me until them.   

  

I don't think there's anything wrong with real discipline & I don't want to give the wrong impression that I've never yelled at my kids.  I don't believe in the idea that people should be afraid to parent a child & yes I think respect is something we should command from our children.  I don't believe a child should be afraid of a parent though I do think that a fear of consequenses is healthy.  If we do something against the law the punishment/consequences could be tough too.   We are after all preparing them for real life.  I would never allow my children to talk back to me or their father.  My sons would never tell me or my husband to go to the corner or any thing like that.   As parents I believe we should been seen as their authority & there should be respect for that.  But that doesn't mean that we should not talk to our children & listen when they're talking to us.  While we should be seen as an authority we should also be seen as a place to go to seek guidance, safety/refuge or in the words of Dr. Phil we should be seen as their soft place to fall.   

  

We do all say things that we don't mean & no we can't always take it back, but I think that kids are a lot smarter than we think some times & when explained "I really didn't mean that" they can comprehend the idea that even they have said things they really don't mean.  It's a slip of the tongue & not intended.  Of course this isn't something thats being said like this nut woman who's screaming every moment of their waking day.  

  

While we're all going to make mistakes I think that for the most part parents are doing the best they know how.  It's the idea that we're open to seeing when we are doing something that's not right or that there was a mistake or we need help that is important.  I can't imagine being in the position that this family is & like you I've trouble relating.  But when you see how the girls are treated it's not hard to imagine they would have problems of their own when they grow up.  I don't know if it's too late for this woman but I hope that the kids get the help that they need to have some peace & happiness in their lives.