Messages By: momakababe

You see if there IS a medical condition & this woman is being misdiagnosed & your diagnosis is the correct avenue for her to pursue then she should know about it.  If the medical condition was brought out on the show she WOULD know about it.   

I know not all will "get this" and they will feel it's just an excuse etc. etc., but to me this is part of the solution even if the solution isn't immediate.  The more people know the more they can go back to a Dr. that's even treating them now & say "what about this...............?"  I've had occassion to see this very thing and an example would be my nephew who was recently so ill (vomiting, spiking fevor etc.) he was taken to the doctor & diagnosed with "virus that needs to run it's course" and 3 days later when his fever spike so high they rushed him in fear to the hospital the medical staff said much the same as the prior doctor.  My SIL understood & agreed because it sounded logical but my BIL felt uneasy & insisted they do blood work & sure enough he had samina poisoning.  They almost lost this boy & had they not done that blood work they would have!  I feel unless we have something to point out or some test to ask for we are sometimes at the mercy of the medical world to seek every avenue & clearly they don't always do that or they make mistakes.  Again this is the stuff that should be pointed out & yes what you're saying does make sense.       

And yes there have been times where I've done out of pocket for 1 test or another & I've thought "If I didn't have this credit card what the heck would I have done?"  And yes it frosts me that I have to pay out of pocket any way because we already pay for the insurance.   

I imagine that the inability to warn again certain drugs etc. on the show would or could have been due to liablity or in other words to avoid the drug companies from suing them.  And yes I did hear and remember the "neuro" comment that he'd made and I'm sure this was his "clue to others" to seek that avenue as well.  And for someone else who's had those same meds mentioned by the mother & who feels they too are unable to control anger this would be the same avenue for them to insist their doctor consider or seek a different one.   You see that at least at this point many will actually "see & know this all".   

Actually with the mention of the "long term adverse effects" a person I know of was just diagnosed with MS & I'll pass this info along.   I understand that the pharmaceutical companies don't share all of this with us &  so as a for society to at some point get involved & force changes in practice the information has to be shared.   

I do believe that the safety of the children should & does come first.  And if that means removing them from the home for a time being then that's what needs to be done (of course the foster care system is a whole different kettle of fish), but if it  meant family getting involved then that could be an avenue too.  It's hard enough to think that people that are this sick are out in public when in reality they really are ill & not a functioning well enough to be there.  That's how we end up with all the road rage etc etc.  But at the very least our children should be protected at all costs & yes I still believe that's even at the cost of the parents.   

AGain Thank YOU.............  so much for having taken the time because I do believe that, regardless of the others who don't get it, for the ones this effects & use this information & have it help resolve an illness it's well worth our time to have posted etc.  But not all would take the time & so Thank YOU.   

Are you sure you don't have a rage/anger problem yourself?  I mean clearly you love your children & you're not ever going to direct it their way but you seem very angry here.  We don't always see ourselves as others see us & perhaps without realizng it you do have a problem still from early truama that you direct outside your house.  Maybe it's at those you feel are worthy of it like an abuser. 

I do understand your frustration & share your anger when I see a parent become defensive of what they're doing, but lets face it she hadn't gotten treatment that worked yet right?  Prior to treatment her view of accountability is certainly going to be distorted.  I do know how long this had gone on& have questioned much the same things you have but exactly who are we to say this father didn't or did control the situation?  As I'd mentioned in a prior post I just had a nephew almost die because of being misdiagnosed & had his father not insisted on blood work he would have.  He literally had to argue to get them to do the blood work I might add & had he given into the doctors , nurses, & his ownwife & just took the kid home the kid would have died.  If he hadn't known what course of action to take & suggest that's exactly what would have happened.  Pehaps this father/husband was seeking all the avenues he knew & really didn't know where to turn next?!  There wouldn't have been a test for him like my BIL to say "I thinkyou should do this".  That I believe is what he's trying to say & why they came to Dr. Phil for help.  Like the people hitting a blank wall looking for missing children or not having enough money power to fight good enough in court for custody of their children this couple turned to Dr. Phil because they didn't know where else to go & didn't have the medical knowledge or finacial sources to suggest what they should do next.   I don't believe this man is trying to excuse the behavior but try to explain where it's coming from & why they came here to Dr. Phil.  When they are speaking of insurance companies not covering tests they're not kidding.  My husband just had to have a cat scan to rule out cancer &/or to diagnose phenomonia (sp?).  The insurance company would not approve of this test that the *specialist* wanted & we paid out of pocket.  It's very expensive & had more tests been needed it could & would at some point have become a problem for us.    

If he had to just left her (which I'm sure must have crossed his mind) chances are she could have made it look like *he* was the abuser & had gotten the kids.   I know this had started prior to them being married but perhaps it was a problem that progressively got worse and of course we don't know what kind of child hood he had & so he could have grown up with abuse & thought this is just the way it is.  I once herad an abused child say they just thought this was how everyone lived & even watching shows like "The Brady Bunch" they figure like them it wasn't until people were not watching that Mike Brady would hit the kids.   

Like you I do believe that children need to be protected at all costs and yes especially from an abusive parent.  I've personally interviened to see that they are when I've seen something not right.  I also believe that as we find cures, treatments, and have a better understanding of illnesses & conditions that we can find help much faster & maybe some day we can anticipate a problem before it even become abuse.   This would be theultimate goal right?  I mean it's like the treatment for caner or the cure for it & while it's great to treat it & have that actually be a cure it would be great to see a cure that would mean no one would get it ever like the shoot for polio & chicken pox they now have.    

but just suppose the treatment she put her daughter in didn't work & actually made the kid worse & she went to 10 different doctors in the past 3 yrs. & all that was done didn't work.  If she was at a loss for what to do would you have a lack of respect?  If she came to Dr.Phil & showed a tape of her daughter at her worst & she had no idea what to do & no more money to try to figure it out would you call her a horrible mother & be screaming that she should have known when she was younger?   

You said "They both refused to act.  Dad walked away and left those innocent children to suffer her abuse and mom just kept dishing it and dishing it instead of forcing herself to do the right thing. "  I'm not saying this is wrong but then in reality you just don't know this.  There are so many "what if's" it would take too long to list them & you've no idea what actions they'd taken.  Here's just 1 what if to suggest  - what if that tape was the "wherewithall" that the father taped on his own to get the attention of the powers that be to put them on the show & get the help they need?  Ok so here's one more Perhaps this man went to work & a woman that tapes & watches the show suggested that this man contact Dr. Phil?  We've no idea that while this man went to work he didn't set up different things to protect his daughters.   

You said "now that I'm calmer" & so my suggestion  was right that you were pretty angry & raging here in your messages?  & so now if you say I don't know what I'm talking about & try to explain does that just mean you're just in denial?   

"Why does he keep blaming posters?  Because its EASY.  Perhaps his wife read some things she didnt like and flew off into a rage.  Well Good Lord thats the POSTERS fault, dontya know?" 

Yes that *could be* or PERHAPS his daughter who was 11 at the taping of the show is now a month later 12 yrs. old & in middle school where there is access to computers & she's reading all the lovely comments about her parents on these boards!!!!!!!!!  Have you considered this?  Now I have because I have teenagers & I know they have access to computers at school & they're usually smarter than the teachers when it comes to how to use them etc.  They ALL have internet access & if this daughter knew her parents were on the show I imagine she'd be curious to check out the web site.  As I'd said in an earlier post I do not believe this is a place for kids but in reality what should be & what is is 2 entirely different things & they do have access at school.  They're in all of the libraries too.  Children feel they are an extention of their parents & when you attack them you attack the child.  This could be absolutely detremental for a child to read the comments on this board about their parents.  Of course I'd hope we'd have been told if this was the problem but that's a different kettle of fish too.   

And if this is sending the mother into a rage & it continues even after we've been given the heads up, then while yes the husband is at fauth, we DO SHARE the responsibility too.  I think you need to take a deep breath & yes calm down & consider there are people at the other end of these monitors.     

frankly I've been here serval times this season now & I have to say it's not hard to get confused & lost on these message boards because they're horrible!   

I was having trouble interpertiting the post because it didn't seem like it should be directed at me to start with.  Anyway I dunno but after the MIL's coming on here & giving MIL's every where a bad name I think I was a bit frustrated.  This was the epidomy of what I'm trying to avoide with my own sons & their future spouses.  It is hard to let go & sometimes we don't even realize what we're doing when we hold on too tight you know?   

I also understand where you're coming from because I seem to recall my father-in-law taking offense that I'd said the front door was for company & the back door for family & we'd always greeted them at the front when they visit!  Well when you're visiting family or not you're company so to speak & yes I use the front door.  I just could not get through & he actually had an attitude about this.  LOL  Sometimes they think they're "family" there fore they shouldn't have to call like others............You know it's like "Everybody Loves Raymond" & they feel they're family & don't need to even knock when coming in.  It's amazing really  

by using you as an example but you were who this woman was addressing & frankly I think you ARE a perfect example.  I know you've never given up hope on your daughter & I'm sure you're a great mom.  You've seen where your daughter had a real problem & found help for her.  And then again when the medication didn't work.  You'd said "it has been a little over three years since I actively started looking to help my daughter. I have taken her to SEVERAL different therapists, psychiatrists, and regular doctors. I have never given up hope for my daughter."  Now imagine if people started questioning how long it took you to actively start looking to help your daught?  *I know* you did so as soon as you realized there was a problem but others may have the their own opinion that you were just blind to it because ________ fill in the blank of the reason why.  You said you you didn't wait but when your daughter first showed signs of trouble you started looking for answers.  Well when your daughter first showed signs to you?  How many others saw signs prior to it & weren't you lucky that you did see the signs & knew where to go & what to do?  That's part of my point  people DON'T always know, they think that when everyone went home that the "Brady Bunch" got beat just like them.  I know you've got your opinion but others could be of the opinion that you didn't seek the *right help* quick enough for your daughter too.  3 years is a long time & she was acting how all that time?  Now you know you'd done everything in your power but how do you explain that to others accusing you of not?  It's easy for us to sit here injudgment but different when we're in the positionof having to act.  I know this isn't the case & it isn't really my opinion (I really do respect you as a mother) but I could sit here & say If your daughter was on Zoloft & it took till she gave you black eyes & trashed her room day in & day out for you to realize it wasn't working, that IMO you weren't paying enough attention.  Would I be wrong?  I'm sure I would because I don't really know what went on & exactly what you'd done for & with her.  And that is my point.  You've got an opinion based on what?  What we saw on TV?  we've just heard we haven't heard it all & I might add some vital info was with held don't you think ?  And as another poster here has said it would do many here good to have it explained in laymens terms.  Do you think they're trying to say they need it explained so they really know & understand what's being said?  That would be because if they don't understand they wouldn't be able to apply it to their own lives or those around them.  In other words just like this huband they might not know what to do or when.  So while they're *figuring this out* who ever they know is going on misdiagnosed or with the incorrect meds.   

Again the what if's are just too numberous to list but we don't know everything that's gone on what people did or didn't do or even what all the facts were when they were on the show that day.   If after 3 years of seeking help your daughter was still at a point where you're looking for help & yet not treated to the point where she's on the mend & people are "blaming you for not having helped her" you'd be saying "I'm trying to help her but I'm just not sure which way to go here".  Of course you wouldn't "give up".  If this husband had given up then I don't think they would be on Dr. Phil.  He could have just walked & not looked back & THAT would have been turning a blind eye.  He did seek the avenues available to him.   

In one of your posts to the father here you'd started giving him advice on prozac & bi polar disorder.  You didn't do this to give them another "excuse" or allow them to shrug off the responsibility of what they did but to try to help him figure out what the problem is.  Is this right?  If that's the case then you had already recognized that the father/husband IS trying to get help.  He is & has been "actively seeking" help for his family.   

because you just don't seem to get what I'm saying to you.  You've never met anyone that has accused you of not doing what has needed to be done?  Well I'm very happy for you because there are plenty of people who will question you & sometimes a judgement is a snap one that if you make a mistake it could go HORRIBLY wrong.  I'll say again had my BIL listened to the Drs. my nephew would be dead right this moment & he had absolutely nothing to base his feeling that something wasn't right on except his gut feeling.  And yes had he not *argued* to get that test & the kid had died people would be saying "why didn't the parents question those drs?"  If you don't think people say & think this when you're not around  you're nieve.  Sometimes we do all we know & we seek avenues but when we're at a loss should we put the person out on the street or just lock them up indefinitely?  Your daughter is under control right now but if there comes a time when her meds don't work is it your fault that you hadn't just some how known that would happen?  We're not doctors & we don't always know what to do even when we're having that "gut feeling".  There are MANY people that would feel that you'd let the doctors put your daughter on Zoloft to quick without researching it yourself & um look what happened?  These things were already coming to light 3 years ago & I know this very well because I'd used Wellbutrine to help me quit smoking.  The knowledge that antidepressants were having adverse side effects was not new 3 years ago.  Now I know you did your best with what you knew at the time & you trusted these doctors to help your daughter who you were frantic to find help for.  We all are frantic when there's something medically wrong & we need a professional to give us answers.  Again we're not doctors.   

And so "we saw enough behavior that IMO warrants inpatient care for this mother.  My oppinion can only be formed on what WE saw on the tv show."  So your a Doctor, nurse or  psychiatrist?  What is your qualifications to have an opinion that even counts after watching a 1 hour program & that is in complete contrast to Dr. Phil who specifically said he'd seen this many many times & DID have all the facts?   

If this man taped his wife & let the rage go on rather than stop her so Dr. Phil could see her for what she really is & the audience wasn't told this then exactly how accurate is that?  Actually the more I thought about that the more logical that seemed to me.  During that taping there were times when the husband stayed quiet & his wife raged on, there were times when he argued with her & she'd argue back & she'd rage on & no matter what was going on or what consequence it looked like could or was happening it didn't phase her & that would be from her kids crying & being physically ill to her husband saying he was leaving cause he couldn't take it.  This was so Dr. Phil could have a clear picture of exactly what did & didn't work etc.  He isn't seeing her on a daily or weekly basis like a private practice doctor would & to even begin to help her find help he'd need to see the "real her".   The tape would & I'm sure was a lot more accurate than her husband just relaying details to him & perhaps not being believed?   

You said "If what we saw is wrong then I do not know why this family allowed their story to be aired. "  Are you serious with this statement?  If you'd tried every avenue you  could to find real help & the last avenue was Dr.Phil but the audience wasn't going to hear all the real details would you take the help or say "ahhhh na why would I all you to show what's not true?"  If after the Zoloft made your daughter worse & the doctors couldn't find an answer for you would YOU have turned down Dr. Phil if all the details weren't going to be aired?  No you'd walk across fire to get her help & that's why this family would to anything to find relief.   

And if you feel that this father/husband is so negligent then why are you sitting here discussing prozac & bipolar?   I mean unless you think he really is looking for a solution why discuss & try to help him figure it out?  

Honestly there are times right now I get looks from my husband like "who the heck are you & where is my wife" & that's just because I'm peri-menopausal.  While women all chuckle about being menopausal & peri-menopausal & we do kind of joke about it here at my house, there are times when making a judgment call starts to take on a serious tone.  There was a time that we had no idea of what this time in life held in store for a woman & I seem to recall just thinking my mother must have snapped a twig & it must have been so upsetting & frustrating that no one understood at the time.  Of course now not only do we recognize what it is but we understand there's a connection between this condition & seritonin (sp?) in the brain as well.  Anyway I know that while my husband loves me & would do anything for me in all honesty he probably wouldn't have a clue what to do if I was just suddenly out of control.  And if it came on gradual it would be even worse because it's hard to see those things when they creep up.  I do suffer from SAD & it was I who figured it out & told him.  :)  You'd think me being in bed daily would have given him cause to wonder?  I'm sure he did wonder because I was NOT normally like that and it did come on gradual.  I'm sure eventually he would have taken action but in the mean time it was like a vortex that sucked me in.  Intellectually I understood something wasn't right & even now knowing what it is as it's happening sometimes it's very hard to start to pull up out of the vortex once the gradual slide in starts.  people have a hard time understanding this but I'm faced with it every single fall & it'll last until March unless I am diligent about the things that help.   

and yes I know why tammy had brought up the topic of prozac.  I know she was trying to give the info she knew about prozac because you'd commented about it on the show.  And that was the  point I was trying to make.  Why would she try to give you info from her experience if she really believed you're all just trying to find an easy way out & give excuses?    

Whatever comes here to this board really isn't important for you personally & I'm sure at this point you know this board is the least of everyone's worries.  I believe that those who would have benefited from the info your wife & you where sharing on the show & here have already gotten something out of it all.  It is sad that a lot will be lost on so many here but what's that old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink"?  We all just do our best.   

Good luck to you & keep your girls safe please.  

I almost spit tea all over my screen when I read this post & got to the part about them calling to your husband through the windows!  How many times have they done that on "Everybody Loves Raymond"?   I don't know how you do it really, my in-laws would really make me nuts but then so would my own part of the extended family.  :)   

I know that as a mother we get a lot of the blame for what is wrong with a kid but for the most part I truely believe the apple doesn't fall all that far from the tree when it comes to how they act & treat people.  2 months ago my son's fiancie was having a pretty bad week & my son sent her flowers saying "just because I Love you".  He has seen his father send me flowers "Just becuase" many many times & of course him being here with me he could see the reaction I'd have when I got them.  I take a lot of pride in what my husband & I have created here together & when I see him sensitive to his fiancie's feeling I'm just blown away.  To me this is a validation that I cannot described.  yes it hurts to let them go & mother hood can be a painful thing but through it all it's always been worth it right?  When I look at his fiancie I don't just see someone who's in a way stepping into my place or as a threat etc. I just see the woman my son loves.  He's so crazy about her & they're both on such a cloudy flight that it's hard not to become part of it in a way & who couldn't be happy that their kid is experiencing that kindof happiness?  I'd not ever try totake the the wind out of that sail you know?  

But I do know what you mean about the loss & I had prepared myself for it too.  I think when I had my children I had a much better understanding of my own MIL.  Like me she'd had 3 sons too & I got the eldest son & we were the first to marry.   :)  she did do some odd things to me at one point & Ijust let them roll off me but I was a bit hurt by it.  After I'd had the boys as I said I think I had a better understanding of her & I don't think even she realized what she'd been doing.  I don't think she would have intentionally set out to hurt me but what ever.  Actually like you it was my FIL that had trouble letting go & always wanted to stick his nose into our business.  I remember 1 time after we'd moved into our first house my FIL telling my husband "Hey we never did discuss the morgage you took for the house."  I LOL & said "Well what the hell, are you gonna be helping to make the payments?"  I didn't normally say anything but the guy had set himself up for that one you know?  After a couple years of us making decisions & telling them after the fact that all calmed down, but it was trying for a time.   

You've no idea what Jay was thinking & for a parent to take it as a personal insult I think says that as a mother we're still thinking their whole world revolves around us (the moms).  I think when they're adults & have their own lives they have their "own lives".  As much as it hurts they've let go & unlike when they were 6 they no longer wanna grow up & be moms.   

Maybe he didn't want to share the info of him asking his fiance' to marry him with anyone because he wanted his fiance' to be the first to know.  Maybe he wanted this to be something special that only they would share if even for just the evening he'd asked her & she'd said yes.  I know they'd said that he'd bought the right & waited a month to ask her but we don't really know why he'd waited.  My son waited a month because while he's purchased the ring it took a month to pay it off & then it was a week before he was in the planned place.   

I watched Robyn say how proud she was that he'd thought out the how, when & where to ask her & did the ring purchase & all the prep stuff to asking her on his own & I understand that kind of pride in a son.  We've done our job as a mother well & we take pride in what we produced.  As I'd said in an earlier post it's us parents that produce these young men & teach them how to treat a woman.  We don't really want to produce a man that's still clinging to his parents & can't make an important decision with out us do we?  Or a man who's getting married but wants his parents to be a part of all the decisions of the marriage?  Would we really want our mothers looking over our shoulder every time we made an important decision?  When we discovered we were pregnant did we share it with out mother first or our husbands?   

I will say that my son did share with me & my husband that he'd bought a ring & was going to present his (at the time) girlfriend with it.  We were very excited for him, but he also knew I wouldn't interfer with any of his plans & like Jay he made them himself.    Yes I'm very proud, he's sensitive, loving, affectionate and loyal to his fiance'.  This is the young man I'd set out to raise & yes the image of him as a young man blows me away.  I'm sure this is the way Robyn must feel.