06/20 Balance of Power
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9balance of power
Posted by: airearth
Posted on: 2003-06-20 09:58:24
The vice principal was obviously guilty, for not showing up to tell her story!!!
Posted by: airearth
Posted on: 2003-06-20 09:58:24
The vice principal was obviously guilty, for not showing up to tell her story!!!
re: asst. principal
Posted by: kmmontgo
Posted on: 2003-06-20 10:31:08
You may not have any experience with law and procedure. If the asst. principal is in the middle of appealing a decision she is not going to come on a talk show and discuss the case. Perhaps Dr. Phil can invite her back once her appeal is heard and a decision is made.
Posted by: kmmontgo
Posted on: 2003-06-20 10:31:08
You may not have any experience with law and procedure. If the asst. principal is in the middle of appealing a decision she is not going to come on a talk show and discuss the case. Perhaps Dr. Phil can invite her back once her appeal is heard and a decision is made.
RESPONSIBILITY
Posted by: yakadeeyak
Posted on: 2003-06-21 15:42:08
My initial response to the Asst Principal story was one of disbelief that Dr Phil would have either party on his show. When this story first broke on our local news I was not shocked that the adults actions at this High School had run amuck! As I myself have been batteling the adult mentality at the high school level. I have come to the decision that many of the employees at our schools have forgotten that they are the adults. Instead, many have fallen into either the need to be popular or the riches of their power.
The Asst Principal needs to stand up and take responsibility for her actions. Admit to her inappropriate behavior and move onto a more appropriate career. Perferably one which will not feed into her 'power over people' problem.
The parents of the children need to get their head out of the sand! Their little babies are not so innocent. With each TV interview the reported actions of the AP grows in intensity. The parents are feeding these girls a victim mentality which will follow them the rest of their lives. These girls had an option of letting someone invade their privacy or not.. they choose to allow it. My 16 year old daughter has followed this story from day one, and she herself is angered. She stated simply that she would have advised the lady of the wrong in what she was doing, stepped out of line, called me to come and assist; knowing that if her rights to attend the dance would have continued to be a problem I would have stayed to chapparone not
Posted by: yakadeeyak
Posted on: 2003-06-21 15:42:08
My initial response to the Asst Principal story was one of disbelief that Dr Phil would have either party on his show. When this story first broke on our local news I was not shocked that the adults actions at this High School had run amuck! As I myself have been batteling the adult mentality at the high school level. I have come to the decision that many of the employees at our schools have forgotten that they are the adults. Instead, many have fallen into either the need to be popular or the riches of their power.
The Asst Principal needs to stand up and take responsibility for her actions. Admit to her inappropriate behavior and move onto a more appropriate career. Perferably one which will not feed into her 'power over people' problem.
The parents of the children need to get their head out of the sand! Their little babies are not so innocent. With each TV interview the reported actions of the AP grows in intensity. The parents are feeding these girls a victim mentality which will follow them the rest of their lives. These girls had an option of letting someone invade their privacy or not.. they choose to allow it. My 16 year old daughter has followed this story from day one, and she herself is angered. She stated simply that she would have advised the lady of the wrong in what she was doing, stepped out of line, called me to come and assist; knowing that if her rights to attend the dance would have continued to be a problem I would have stayed to chapparone not
Cont... Responsibility
Posted by: yakadeeyak
Posted on: 2003-06-21 15:44:35
only her actions, but the actions of many others (including the adults). These girls have to take the responsibility of raising their clothing, they had a choice, no matter how bad it was... they still had several options.
The parents to need to take the responsibility of how their children dress and behave. They are afraid that if they limit their childrens morals, then they limit their ability to be popular. They have now, by encouraging their childrens victim status, further encouraged behavior without responsibility.
By having these parents and these children on this show allows them to believe that they are correct and that they themselves have no responsibility in what occured. SHAME on that mother who said she would happily have volunteered to chapparon the dance if she would have been asked. Like all of us parents, she was asked thru mailings and meetings she should have gotten involved in her daughters life before this occured. Maybe reading the monthly mailings sent home or attending a meeting just didn't pay as well as a lawsuit.
SHAME on all parties involved!!!! Kudos to those who were dressed appropriately and behaved the way they should have.
Posted by: yakadeeyak
Posted on: 2003-06-21 15:44:35
only her actions, but the actions of many others (including the adults). These girls have to take the responsibility of raising their clothing, they had a choice, no matter how bad it was... they still had several options.
The parents to need to take the responsibility of how their children dress and behave. They are afraid that if they limit their childrens morals, then they limit their ability to be popular. They have now, by encouraging their childrens victim status, further encouraged behavior without responsibility.
By having these parents and these children on this show allows them to believe that they are correct and that they themselves have no responsibility in what occured. SHAME on that mother who said she would happily have volunteered to chapparon the dance if she would have been asked. Like all of us parents, she was asked thru mailings and meetings she should have gotten involved in her daughters life before this occured. Maybe reading the monthly mailings sent home or attending a meeting just didn't pay as well as a lawsuit.
SHAME on all parties involved!!!! Kudos to those who were dressed appropriately and behaved the way they should have.
Responsibility
Posted by: irishred62
Posted on: 2003-06-21 21:17:05
I worked at the High School level for 13 years and 10 at the Middle school prior to that. In that time I watched the dress code (or lack of) go down hill. I also witnessed parents (mostly mothers) come in and attempt to defend why their daughter was wearing a top that showed more than it covered. I also agree that the stories were better every time they were told. No the AP should not have looked under skirts, but then the parents should have made sure they were dressed appropriately and behaved like adults. As for why the former AP did not show up. This is still pending and I am sure her Lawyer and the school district advised her not to. There are always two sides to every story and we have only heard the side of the girls. I for one would never have let my three daughters go out dressed like these girls were.
Posted by: irishred62
Posted on: 2003-06-21 21:17:05
I worked at the High School level for 13 years and 10 at the Middle school prior to that. In that time I watched the dress code (or lack of) go down hill. I also witnessed parents (mostly mothers) come in and attempt to defend why their daughter was wearing a top that showed more than it covered. I also agree that the stories were better every time they were told. No the AP should not have looked under skirts, but then the parents should have made sure they were dressed appropriately and behaved like adults. As for why the former AP did not show up. This is still pending and I am sure her Lawyer and the school district advised her not to. There are always two sides to every story and we have only heard the side of the girls. I for one would never have let my three daughters go out dressed like these girls were.
I Agree
Posted by: mreneau
Posted on: 2003-06-22 03:04:03
The educator lifting the skirts was clearly not good, and I would hope it would be handled more professionally. However, I would never have allowed my under age daughter to leave the house like that to begin with. Nor would I want her to be freak dancing. Had she done so without my knowledge, I would be happy the dance sponsors/school authorities were concerned. Parents definitely have a responsibility to curtail some of this behavior. I am bothered that Dr. Phil saw this as a plausible reason to ask parents to "beware of who their children spend time with".
Posted by: mreneau
Posted on: 2003-06-22 03:04:03
The educator lifting the skirts was clearly not good, and I would hope it would be handled more professionally. However, I would never have allowed my under age daughter to leave the house like that to begin with. Nor would I want her to be freak dancing. Had she done so without my knowledge, I would be happy the dance sponsors/school authorities were concerned. Parents definitely have a responsibility to curtail some of this behavior. I am bothered that Dr. Phil saw this as a plausible reason to ask parents to "beware of who their children spend time with".
Posted by: bellgriff
Posted on: 2003-06-22 11:15:18
It is the policy of the principal NOT to allow parent chaparones. Thus, never has a mailer included a call for parents to chaparone their children at dances.
UNBELIEVABLE!
Posted by: gabelila
Posted on: 2003-06-20 12:41:08
You have got to be kidding me! I can't believe that the family that is sueing the school and teachers are for real! I can't believe that Dr. Phil would let something like that on his show. For one thing, the teachers giving the student the failing grades did so because it was school policy, not because they were trying to be vindictive. If the girl had so many problems with illness, the mother should have made other arrangements to take care of the other children in the family. Non of that should have been the responsiblility of the teenage daughter. That mother should lose her case hands down, how rediculous.
Posted by: gabelila
Posted on: 2003-06-20 12:41:08
You have got to be kidding me! I can't believe that the family that is sueing the school and teachers are for real! I can't believe that Dr. Phil would let something like that on his show. For one thing, the teachers giving the student the failing grades did so because it was school policy, not because they were trying to be vindictive. If the girl had so many problems with illness, the mother should have made other arrangements to take care of the other children in the family. Non of that should have been the responsiblility of the teenage daughter. That mother should lose her case hands down, how rediculous.
I AGREE
Posted by: beagleboys
Posted on: 2003-06-20 14:46:11
I agree 100 percent. The mother is totally to blame for the fact that her daughter didn't get to participate in her high school graduation.
Too many people believe they are entitled to whatever they want.
The way things are supposed to work is that you have to produce to get the reward. You don't go to school, you don't get the credit. It was that way at my daughter's school, but at her school the threshhold was much lower--5 unexcused absences resulted in loss of credit for that class. And, for after school activities--if you weren't there for **first period**--and it didn't matter that the reason was a dental appointment, etc.,--you didn't participate--in sports, marching band, etc.
In our family, the most important job our daughter had was getting an education. My convenience was secondary--and believe me, it was not "convenient" to be driving in a carpool listening to alternative rock at 6:45 AM!!
I hope that the daughter will get her GED and go on with her life.
Posted by: beagleboys
Posted on: 2003-06-20 14:46:11
I agree 100 percent. The mother is totally to blame for the fact that her daughter didn't get to participate in her high school graduation.
Too many people believe they are entitled to whatever they want.
The way things are supposed to work is that you have to produce to get the reward. You don't go to school, you don't get the credit. It was that way at my daughter's school, but at her school the threshhold was much lower--5 unexcused absences resulted in loss of credit for that class. And, for after school activities--if you weren't there for **first period**--and it didn't matter that the reason was a dental appointment, etc.,--you didn't participate--in sports, marching band, etc.
In our family, the most important job our daughter had was getting an education. My convenience was secondary--and believe me, it was not "convenient" to be driving in a carpool listening to alternative rock at 6:45 AM!!
I hope that the daughter will get her GED and go on with her life.
I disagree with some school policy
Posted by: calypsokit
Posted on: 2003-06-20 15:26:15
The problem with school policy is when they don't look at each individual case. My 13 year old son was is an honor roll student. He was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis this year. We had doctors appointments with specialists and tried many different drugs to treat him. Some of the meds made him ill. He ended up missing a lot of school and being late to school. We thankfully had an understanding school that worked with us and even though he did not get on the honor roll,he worked very hard to bring his grades back up. I'm sure my son's school has a policy on this too, but they knew my son had never been a problem student. Sometimes life throws us curve balls and sometimes it's nice to know there are people that will go out of their way to catch them for us.That's why I don't think school policy should be written in stone.
Posted by: calypsokit
Posted on: 2003-06-20 15:26:15
The problem with school policy is when they don't look at each individual case. My 13 year old son was is an honor roll student. He was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis this year. We had doctors appointments with specialists and tried many different drugs to treat him. Some of the meds made him ill. He ended up missing a lot of school and being late to school. We thankfully had an understanding school that worked with us and even though he did not get on the honor roll,he worked very hard to bring his grades back up. I'm sure my son's school has a policy on this too, but they knew my son had never been a problem student. Sometimes life throws us curve balls and sometimes it's nice to know there are people that will go out of their way to catch them for us.That's why I don't think school policy should be written in stone.
Doctors' Excuses
Posted by: stroud944l
Posted on: 2003-06-20 16:49:01
I was an employee at our local high school for 2 years and at our central office for 14 years, so believe me I've seen and heard it all. In writing school board policy, school administrators, a PTA committee, a board member, parents, and students were all involved in the process. Nine UNEXCUSED absences in a semester are allowed before zeros are given. A written excuse from a doctor treating the child is considered an EXCUSED absence, and the child is allowed to make up the work missed. I truly believe that school administrators are interesed in the child's well being and will work with any parent whose child has medical problems
I have seen parents send forged notes on prescription pads to school for their child's absences, knowing that the child has been truant.
The mother whose daughter had more than 24 absences has no one to blame but herself, and the very idea that she would file a lawsuit against teachers and the board of education for her failure as a parent is absurd.
Posted by: stroud944l
Posted on: 2003-06-20 16:49:01
I was an employee at our local high school for 2 years and at our central office for 14 years, so believe me I've seen and heard it all. In writing school board policy, school administrators, a PTA committee, a board member, parents, and students were all involved in the process. Nine UNEXCUSED absences in a semester are allowed before zeros are given. A written excuse from a doctor treating the child is considered an EXCUSED absence, and the child is allowed to make up the work missed. I truly believe that school administrators are interesed in the child's well being and will work with any parent whose child has medical problems
I have seen parents send forged notes on prescription pads to school for their child's absences, knowing that the child has been truant.
The mother whose daughter had more than 24 absences has no one to blame but herself, and the very idea that she would file a lawsuit against teachers and the board of education for her failure as a parent is absurd.
individual cases
Posted by: jdarvish
Posted on: 2003-06-20 17:33:25
I agree with you. I am a firm believer that policies are there for a reason and should be followed. Our children need to realize this. However, I wholeheartedly agree that, at times, individual cases sometimes need to be taken into consideration. Obviously, you had close contact with the school and your son's case is certainly an exception. From the sounds of it, the situation with the $6 million suit, appeared that there was not a lot of communication on the part of the parent. As a teacher, I commend you for what you taught your son...that life can throw us curves and we need to work through the tough times...not just expect random "exceptions".
Posted by: jdarvish
Posted on: 2003-06-20 17:33:25
I agree with you. I am a firm believer that policies are there for a reason and should be followed. Our children need to realize this. However, I wholeheartedly agree that, at times, individual cases sometimes need to be taken into consideration. Obviously, you had close contact with the school and your son's case is certainly an exception. From the sounds of it, the situation with the $6 million suit, appeared that there was not a lot of communication on the part of the parent. As a teacher, I commend you for what you taught your son...that life can throw us curves and we need to work through the tough times...not just expect random "exceptions".
Posted by: amy1951
Posted on: 2003-06-20 18:46:06
Glad to hear your son is doing well in school. It is a good thing that the school was able to deal with his situation individually. I think most schools would do this if they were asked. I never heard this mom say that she had tried to make any arrangements with the school, to work out something at the beginning where her daughter would not be penalized. I also think, tho, that this mom should have found some type of arrangements about the younger children that did not involve the older girl so much, that would have allowed the older girl to be at school as scheduled, also.
I Agree
Posted by: mreneau
Posted on: 2003-06-22 03:12:08
Once again, I am disappointed that Dr. Phil chose this as a reason to "question who we leave our children with". I saw no evidence that teachers or administration did anything cruel or unreasonable. They followed policy. Educators cannot be responsible for what students are learning when they do not attend school. We have a tremendous responsibility to educate. At some point the parents and students have to become involved in the educational process. If they wanted special consideration, they should have arranged it in advance. Goodness! We teachers have already lost much respect in our society. This show made some educators, doing their jobs, into the bad guys.
Posted by: mreneau
Posted on: 2003-06-22 03:12:08
Once again, I am disappointed that Dr. Phil chose this as a reason to "question who we leave our children with". I saw no evidence that teachers or administration did anything cruel or unreasonable. They followed policy. Educators cannot be responsible for what students are learning when they do not attend school. We have a tremendous responsibility to educate. At some point the parents and students have to become involved in the educational process. If they wanted special consideration, they should have arranged it in advance. Goodness! We teachers have already lost much respect in our society. This show made some educators, doing their jobs, into the bad guys.
illness
Posted by: stargzn6
Posted on: 2003-06-21 14:45:19
but didn't you hear the administrator? He said it had gone on for all 4 YEARS. This kid has just learned how NOT to be held responsible and obviously the mother knew it all along.
Posted by: stargzn6
Posted on: 2003-06-21 14:45:19
but didn't you hear the administrator? He said it had gone on for all 4 YEARS. This kid has just learned how NOT to be held responsible and obviously the mother knew it all along.
GED
Posted by: jdarvish
Posted on: 2003-06-20 16:24:49
I agree. The daughter needs to get her GED and go on with her life.
Posted by: jdarvish
Posted on: 2003-06-20 16:24:49
I agree. The daughter needs to get her GED and go on with her life.
Balance of Power
Posted by: mare8wy
Posted on: 2003-06-20 17:06:23
I work for our school district as an attendance clerk and I think part of this story is not being told. Our district allows 10 days of excused absences per semester, and illnesses or injuries, backed by a note from a doctor, don't count against the 10 days of excused absences. They are considered medical absences. I think this family was trying to scam the school and I'm pleased the courts threw the lawsuit out.
Posted by: mare8wy
Posted on: 2003-06-20 17:06:23
I work for our school district as an attendance clerk and I think part of this story is not being told. Our district allows 10 days of excused absences per semester, and illnesses or injuries, backed by a note from a doctor, don't count against the 10 days of excused absences. They are considered medical absences. I think this family was trying to scam the school and I'm pleased the courts threw the lawsuit out.
Balance of Power
Posted by: mare8wy
Posted on: 2003-06-20 18:09:21
I work for our school district as an attendance clerk and I think part of this story is not being told. Our district allows 10 days of excused absences per semester, and illnesses or injuries, backed by a note from a doctor, don't count against the 10 days of excused absences. They are considered medical absences. I think this family was trying to scam the school and I'm pleased the courts threw the lawsuit out.
Posted by: mare8wy
Posted on: 2003-06-20 18:09:21
I work for our school district as an attendance clerk and I think part of this story is not being told. Our district allows 10 days of excused absences per semester, and illnesses or injuries, backed by a note from a doctor, don't count against the 10 days of excused absences. They are considered medical absences. I think this family was trying to scam the school and I'm pleased the courts threw the lawsuit out.
I don't agree
Posted by: lilduh
Posted on: 2003-06-20 18:25:30
yogiboy812, you said quote "5 unexcused absences resulted in loss of credit for that class."
The keyword there is unexcused. At my school, the number of times that you can miss "unexcused" is 10 a year. I missed 12.48 days of school, in other words, 12 days and a half through the entire year, but the things is, I was able to prove I was very ill on those days by doctor's notes. I don't think people should be punished for being sick, would they rather her come to school and make the other students sick?
Posted by: lilduh
Posted on: 2003-06-20 18:25:30
yogiboy812, you said quote "5 unexcused absences resulted in loss of credit for that class."
The keyword there is unexcused. At my school, the number of times that you can miss "unexcused" is 10 a year. I missed 12.48 days of school, in other words, 12 days and a half through the entire year, but the things is, I was able to prove I was very ill on those days by doctor's notes. I don't think people should be punished for being sick, would they rather her come to school and make the other students sick?
Unexcused is just that
Posted by: beagleboys
Posted on: 2003-06-20 19:11:24
"Unexcused" absences did **not** include absences supported by a note from a parent or medical person. Unexcused absences were those cases (either absence or tardiness)in which the student did not have an appropriate written excuse. Yes, if a student was sick and **never** took a note to school, that was an unexcused absence.
Posted by: beagleboys
Posted on: 2003-06-20 19:11:24
"Unexcused" absences did **not** include absences supported by a note from a parent or medical person. Unexcused absences were those cases (either absence or tardiness)in which the student did not have an appropriate written excuse. Yes, if a student was sick and **never** took a note to school, that was an unexcused absence.
