08/23 'Afraid of My Children'

Dr. Phil, you are so off base!!
Posted by: rich2barb
Posted on: 2004-04-28 09:55:55

My name is Barb and I have a 12 year old son with alot of the same "problems" as the children that are on the show. I have been fighting not only with my son when he is in a rage, but with ALL the agencies that are out the to help (ha) the families in this situation. You are seeing such a small seed of the whole picture. You are sending these families out into a world of red tape and politics and that is where the real problem is. My family and I have been in a wrap-around service for over three years. This is an intense counseling that in done in the home five days a week. This is a service that can only be supplied with a disabled medical card. To have the medical card, you have to prove thought the social secrity that there is a disablility. I don't even want s.s.i. but this is the red tape that has to happen. Also, no insurance company will go near my son so you have to deal with medication cost, counseling cost, attorney cost, the frustration of phone call after phone call, repeating the situation and concern for family and child over and over. You try to keep family life normal but that it a greiving process I am in everyday. To tell these children and these families that that need help is an easy way out. You don't think they know this? You don't think these tears you are seeing on your show tears that they have everyday. You are blind if you think you are helping them. GIVE US A WAY TO GET THE HELP THEY/WE NEED!!!! I have only touched the tip of the iceburg of the emotions that are going on in these families. There is a book called THE BIPOLAR CHILD by MD Demitri and Janice Papolas. In this book they closely come close to the fear, greif, and saddiness that goes on behind close doors of a family with emotional and behavior problems. Whether bipolar is the issue or not, (I am still on the fence with Jake)This book in very family friendly. But Government is still the main problem. Please find a way to REALLlY help.
i think drphil is right on target
Posted by: magic18
Posted on: 2004-04-28 10:25:36

hi barb,

I think that drphil is right on target telling these people that they need to get help. often (and i am drawing from personal experience: i come from a family where there are many children like those that were on the show) you simply will not believe how much in denail parents like this can be in and when they realize that there is a problem they minimize it (like the first family with the child who attributed his violent behavior with adhd) or they enable their childrens' behavior (as with the second family, where the mother lied to her husband about her daughter's behavior.)

alot of times when these kids act out it is because of things that are going on in the home, although you can't rule out if there are other problems with the child unless you get him or her checked out by doctors.

In my family there were and are alot of kids like this and let me tell you, they are among the scariest and most abusive adults that i have ever interacted with. the few people that as children were given help by their parents when they were young still have a few problems but they are much better human beings than the others and they appreciate everything that their parents have done to help them.

I wish you the best of luck with you son and i admire the fact that you are trying everything to get him the help that he needs and let me tell you i'm rooting for the both of you.
LOVE AND LOGIC PARENTING
Posted by: anon_slc
Posted on: 2004-04-28 11:41:13

For anyone interested in treating (with or without medication), a child who is diagnosed with ADHD, you many be interested in the Love and Logic approach - www.loveandlogic.com

Love and Logic is a philosophy of raising and teaching children which allows adults to be happier, empowered, and more skilled in the interactions with children. Love allows children to grow through their mistakes. Logic allows children to live with the consequences of their choices.

Love and Logic is a way of working with children that puts parents (and teachers) back in control, teaches children to be responsible, and prepares young people to live in the real world, with its many choices and consequences.

Of the many materials available, my favorite is "Calming the Chaos - Behavoir improvement strategies for the child with ADHD" by psychologists Jim Fay, Charles Fay, Ph.D., and Foster W. Cline, M.D. You may find the Frequently Asked Questions section of the website a good starting point.

Good Luck!
Love and Logic is the way to go!!
Posted by: kimberever
Posted on: 2004-04-28 15:27:52

I am a huge proponent of Love and Logic and practice it in our house with our two children. I just saw Jim Fay, the founder of L&L, lecture yesterday and it just made me once again want to go home and turn my kids into responsible, respectful, loving children!! Thank God for this program!!
need help badly
Posted by: blueangelz
Posted on: 2004-04-28 15:42:20

I have a ADHD son who is 14 and I had in Therpy and Anger Manager and They did not help. His Temper out of controll does not listen to me and his dad. His dad works night 7 days a week. he is 14 years old he steal and lied. He is on meds for his adhd.
I'm at my whits end with him. my health is not good. Need to know what I can do to help him before it too late.
need help
Posted by: mollie27
Posted on: 2004-04-28 19:04:55

Please have your son see a psychiatrist to see if there is another diagnosis existing with his adhd. Could he be bipolar? Go to CABF.org for the children and adolesent bipolar foundation web site. A great place to get info and support for yourself.
I agree
Posted by: bb2528
Posted on: 2004-08-23 12:59:12

I do not believe that your son is ADHD. I was told that my son was ADHD when he was 4, and he was put on stimulants, which only made things worse over the years.
He is 9 now and after years of trying to find support for my family and finally finding a great child psychiatrist, we found the answer.
My son was not ADHD, he is Bipolar and ODD.
Dr. Phil is right about is being a disaster giving a non ADHD child stimulants.
I am a strong believer in structure, consistancy and patience. And believe is takes alot of all three with a Bipolar child.
Regular discipline does not work with a Bipolar child.
My son has a twin sister, and all my parenting applications work for her, and she is in a challenge program in school, doing 2 to 3 grade levels ahead for her age. She has her regular child moments, but discipline works.
My son is just as intelligent, but the Bipolar holds him back.
He has an IEP and is in a special class at school, that allows him to vent and cool down. They have pulled so much work out of him everyday and he is doing A+ work now, compared to D's and F's.
I'm not saying that any of this is easy. You will not find a quick cure. It takes the right Child Psychiatrist, support, therapy and case managment, along with the right mix of medications.
Go to CABF.org and you will find tons of information and support. But first, find a doctor to find some answers for your son, as well as family therapy.
Hang in there, there is hope.
Military School, it's cheaper
Posted by: qwhitrash
Posted on: 2004-04-28 19:51:32

Try the other things and if you still find you are not tough enough to be the parents HE NEEDS….and you have to decide IF you LOVE HIM enough to go all the way for him and the rest of the family.

Military School might be the only way to save him.

You think you can't afford it?

I see so many folks getting divorced over this monster they are living with, or have accidentally created.

Add up:
---------------------
*Cost of Divorce
*Divorce costs to Retirement/Savings/Housing
*Decreased Quality of Life for Everybody
*Cost of Current & Future Counseling and Meds for whole Family
*Constant Cost of Future Misc: arrests, lawsuits, embezzling your funds when you are elderly, drug usage, inability to become adult, abuse to you or other family members & future children (family members when they become vulnerable).

Worst Case: My cousin, older relatives and various fellas around town are the untreated example: unable to mature, always buggering their parents for more assistance, embezzling, drugging, abusing.

Best Case: I worked with a guy who was hyper, and (claims) mildly Asburger Syndrome (slight autism)---been through residential military school, and he is clean cut, wonderful family, educated, everything wonderful, joy to talk to, very functional, you would want him for your brother.
Disagree
Posted by: jasonsli
Posted on: 2004-08-24 13:42:08

Military school is NOT the solution for a defiant child. Military school does not allow defiant behavior and he/she will be dismissed if defiant, and tuition is forfeited. The best thing to do is send the child to boot camp or boarding school. Boot camp is mostly for defiant adolescents. Take my advice. That's the truth.

Posted by: mominator2
Posted on: 2004-04-29 09:13:32

I too have a son with ADHD and at times was wondering if he would make it to the age he is now (17). I found a wonderful book, it's called "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy" by Dr. Michael Bradley. This book was literally my "Bible". It's challenging enough to be raising a teen without them having ADHD. It's all about our reactions to what they are doing that matters. They need to be constantly reminded as they are going through this stage of trying to gain independence, that we still love them and it's ok to still need Mom. I found that by telling my son daily that I loved him and that it's ok for him to become a man and that I would always still be there for him. And a daily hug to reinforce that has helped. Please read this book, for your own sanity. Please feel free to email me and let me know what you think of it. It's the best money you will ever spend. Best of Luck.

Posted by: mikesb
Posted on: 2004-08-23 12:01:52

All you people that claim to have ADHD children need to try rearing your children rather than putting them on drugs. It seems to me that there were overly active children before some "educated" person coined the all encumpasing ADHD lable. I was a very roudy young child, but with lots of dicipline I grew up to be a productive member of society.

Posted by: ooojules
Posted on: 2004-09-01 09:43:50

Well, aren't you the exception to the rule. 20 years ago someone coined the phrase "AIDS". They continue research. Through the efforts of "educated" people some of us are able to get the help for our children. I don't care what you call it ADHD or MOUSE. The fact remains that this is an issue and hopefully we will have even more prductive members of society. I hope you count yourself blessed and appreciate the fact that your parents didn't have to go through what some of us are going through.
You make me laugh
Posted by: mominator2
Posted on: 2005-05-11 08:53:59

I do not CLAIM that my son has ADHD, he was thoroughly examined over a period of time by the top Pediatric Physician dealing with learning disabilities in Canada. This was all done PRIOR to medication. Once on the medication, he made a "marked" improvement in all aspects of his life and this only happens when they truly do require the medication. If a child is medicated and doesn't really need it, then they are listless and walk around spaced out. We did not take this lightly. I was also diagnosed with ADHD, but not until around the time that my son was, because my parents just thought I was a "bad" child and didn't know how to handle it. My rambunciousness was beat out of me! You think that's proper? I don't! I have learned over the years to use coping mechanisms and have been teaching my son to use the same. He has been off the medication for about 4 years now because he didn't like the stigma attached to having to take medication. He is now 18 years old and is utilizing methods to help him in dealing with it. He still has the behaviours and reactions of an ADHD person, but now has the tools to approach the situation differently.
You obviously need to check into these things prior to making a statement that paints everyone with the same brush. We have teachers, etc. automatically thinking that a rambuncious child needs to be medicated, I don't agree with that. As long as a child has been thoroughly tested and all other possibilities have been ruled out, then and only then, should the question of medication be brought into it.
Help
Posted by: brickley57
Posted on: 2004-04-29 14:44:42

You must get him to a psychiatrist to get him assessed. ADHD meds can make his behavior worse if he is bipolar which it sounds like he might be. Go on the CABF website. I can't believe that Dr Phil did not address the possibility of any of these kids being bipolar. He only spoke of behaviors in the family. What is their school and social behavior like? I would love to see him get Dr Kiki Chang from Stanford University to discuss this. Dr Phil put the blame squarely on the parents and it may not lie in their parenting skills, but on a TREATABLE MEDICAL CONDITION! There are other parents in your situation. Please go to CABF (child adolescent bipolar foundation) website. It sure helped me in dealing with my 9 year old son.
I AGREE!!!
Posted by: mccmar00
Posted on: 2004-04-30 19:58:39

I agree with Brickley57! ADHD is a medical condition! I think this boy should do a trial of medication. This happened to us 2 years ago and I resisted the medication route but things just got worse and worse with our son to the point that he wanted to commit suicide and he is only 8 years old! Well, that did it for me and he is taking Adderall XR and our family is no longer dysfunctional! I agree with Dr Phil most of the time, however, this time I disagreed with him blaming the family being dysfunctional. They are dysfunctional because their son has ADHD and unmedicated! Our family life, our son's self-esteem, social and school life has turned around 180 degrees! Do a trial of medication just to see for yourself....if no change, then you know it is not that. However, I think you will be astounded at the difference in your son. He will also be more open to behaviour modification techniques.
Child Guinea Pig
Posted by: oliver48
Posted on: 2004-08-23 15:40:55

Putting a child who does NOT need ADHD medication can be VERY damaging to the child. It's not like changing the Octane of the Gas in your car. ADHD is a real condition but it is overdiagnosed and overmedicated (check the JAMA for verification). To blame the child for the dysfunctionality is irresponsible. There wasn't enough information presented on TV for ANYONE to make that diagnosis.

Things (for everyone) to keep in mind

1) Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone. This is psychology, not paint by the numbers.

2) Just because it DIDN'T work for you does not mean it won't work for someone else. Your story is an Anecdote, not a universal truth.

3) Dr. Phil didn't say the kid did not have ADHD, what he said was, in his (medically trained and clinically practiced) opinion, ADHD wasn't the source of this particular problem.
Violent Behavior is Not ADHD
Posted by: cancerstic
Posted on: 2004-08-23 16:14:48

I'm an adult with ADHD (diagnosed and everything) and I just want to tell these parents that violence is not a symptom of ADHD. If this is what their doctor is telling them they have been misdiagnosed.

Also, I think we should keep the subject matter to what actually happened on the show. Medication is NOT a cure for ADHD and if the parents are irresponsible in any way the ADHD child will exhibit that.

It is a real, neurological disorder, though some people seem to like to use it as an excuse for irresponsible parenting or to minimize what is really wrong with their child or basically to be able to put the responsibility of raising and controlling their child in the hands of someone else (a physician, school counselor, etc.)
I agree
Posted by: jms5006
Posted on: 2004-05-02 06:26:32

All these children were so violent that I was surprised Dr. Phil didn't advise the parents put them in some sort of pysch setting or some time of supervised program to get them out of the house. They all need to have all physical and psychological tests to truly come up with a correct diagnosis and proper treatment. I would never get any sleep and it's just terribly dangerous to leave the violent kids in the same house with their younger siblings. Someone is going to end up seriously injured or dead. You need help now. Good luck.
Hope it's not Permissive Bull Again
Posted by: qwhitrash
Posted on: 2004-04-28 19:44:24

I hope this Love and Logic stuff is not more permissive BS. I have seen that all get tossed to the winds. Sure permissive stuff works on some kids, but if you get more than two kids, you then have "Lord of the Flies" and a Wolf-Pack PowerStruggle.

I've seen how that all works in multiple generations in my family and others. Talk-Talk does not work with kids who know you can't back yourself up. It's like letting dogs train themselves---it just doesn't happen.
If you let it happen, you will get what my relatives have gotten. It's horrible.
They always hoped for the best, had happy discussions, and hoped that certain brats would grow-out-of it, only to have them predating upon them in their frail elder years.
Love and Logic is Not Permissive BS
Posted by: dscheidker
Posted on: 2004-04-29 17:21:27

I have been using the Love and Logic approach with my kids, and it certainly is NOT permissive BS. In fact, to do it well, you have to be downright mean at times. For example, if you have asked a kid to clean his room before lunch, you simply do not let him eat until the room is clean. You don't yell or scream or say "I told you..." You simply say with a simle "we'll see you at the table when you've finished your work." The child learns the lesson because he has to suffer the logical consequences of his actions.

My three year old has no eating problems because he knows that he can eat what's on the table within a reasonable amount of time, or he can wait until the next meal is served. He has gone to bed hungry enough times to know that he had better eat his vegetables.

"Parenting with Love and Logic" is a terrific book, but it takes maturity and discipline on the part of the parent to do it right.