09/03 Mom vs. Mom, Part 2
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Posted by: veroniquef
Posted on: 2004-08-27 23:35:31
I find that it already says alot about society when we question the effects of working mothers on the development of children as if childrearing is only a mothers/womens responsibility.What about the impact of fathers going to work on children?
Just think about it why is the term working mother so common yet we seldom hear about the effects of fathers going to work? Why is this only a mothers burden? In my opinion society has stigmatized working mothers and guilt tripped others to stay home. I think there are many factors that influence how a child will turn out later in life and how one contributes to society I think the important thing is what motivates a mother to work or stay home. For example:If a mother stays home because she feels obliged she may carry on with her parenting tasks resentfully and feel unfulfilled in her role which will have a far more negative impact on her children then if she had gone to work.
Posted by: veroniquef
Posted on: 2004-08-27 23:35:31
I find that it already says alot about society when we question the effects of working mothers on the development of children as if childrearing is only a mothers/womens responsibility.What about the impact of fathers going to work on children?
Just think about it why is the term working mother so common yet we seldom hear about the effects of fathers going to work? Why is this only a mothers burden? In my opinion society has stigmatized working mothers and guilt tripped others to stay home. I think there are many factors that influence how a child will turn out later in life and how one contributes to society I think the important thing is what motivates a mother to work or stay home. For example:If a mother stays home because she feels obliged she may carry on with her parenting tasks resentfully and feel unfulfilled in her role which will have a far more negative impact on her children then if she had gone to work.
Dad's Have Guilt Too
Posted by: jessicahur
Posted on: 2004-09-03 09:37:31
My husband spends all of his time outside of work with our three kids. He tries to come to doctor's appointments, school functions, and to help me out with childcare if I have to go to the doctor by myself. He feels guilty when he's away from them, and feels bad about not putting enough time into his career. During tax season he goes to work at 4am so he can be home at 5pm and see the kids before bedtime. He gave up the opportunity to be an FBI agent so he could be home more.
Posted by: jessicahur
Posted on: 2004-09-03 09:37:31
My husband spends all of his time outside of work with our three kids. He tries to come to doctor's appointments, school functions, and to help me out with childcare if I have to go to the doctor by myself. He feels guilty when he's away from them, and feels bad about not putting enough time into his career. During tax season he goes to work at 4am so he can be home at 5pm and see the kids before bedtime. He gave up the opportunity to be an FBI agent so he could be home more.
jessicahur
Posted by: cjcandace
Posted on: 2004-09-03 23:27:51
That is so sweet. Your husband sounds like a rare jewel. How does it make you feel knowing that he is giving up these opportunities though? Or was it a family decision. I'm just curious.
Posted by: cjcandace
Posted on: 2004-09-03 23:27:51
That is so sweet. Your husband sounds like a rare jewel. How does it make you feel knowing that he is giving up these opportunities though? Or was it a family decision. I'm just curious.
shouldn't we all have guilt man or woman?
Posted by: tazlivtay
Posted on: 2004-09-08 00:15:38
we make the choice to have children that takes 2 yea 2 people to do that, don't you think that making that choice together limits any opportunities to both partners i mean think about it! you either both go to work and have someone help you raise your kids, or child and you better hope that , that person has the same out look on parenting as you do, or take that plunge into a single income for a few years and raise your children the way you wanted them to be raised. either way there is guilt stay home or leave the child will learn to ajust.
Posted by: tazlivtay
Posted on: 2004-09-08 00:15:38
we make the choice to have children that takes 2 yea 2 people to do that, don't you think that making that choice together limits any opportunities to both partners i mean think about it! you either both go to work and have someone help you raise your kids, or child and you better hope that , that person has the same out look on parenting as you do, or take that plunge into a single income for a few years and raise your children the way you wanted them to be raised. either way there is guilt stay home or leave the child will learn to ajust.
burden on mom
Posted by: warartmx
Posted on: 2004-09-03 17:03:30
I have a sister who is guilted into going to work by her husband. At first, I thought it was a noble idea that he stay at home while she went to work. The rose-colored glasses were stripped from our eyes when my sister ended up losing her job and landing in a rehab facility. Now she can't work in her chosen profession, and he refuses to find a job. He has alienated them all from the rest of the family because of the family because of his laziness and controlling behavior. So it's not all peaches & cream for working moms who have husbands at home with the children.
Posted by: warartmx
Posted on: 2004-09-03 17:03:30
I have a sister who is guilted into going to work by her husband. At first, I thought it was a noble idea that he stay at home while she went to work. The rose-colored glasses were stripped from our eyes when my sister ended up losing her job and landing in a rehab facility. Now she can't work in her chosen profession, and he refuses to find a job. He has alienated them all from the rest of the family because of the family because of his laziness and controlling behavior. So it's not all peaches & cream for working moms who have husbands at home with the children.
warwartmx
Posted by: cjcandace
Posted on: 2004-09-03 23:28:02
Sounds like your sister is in a tough situation. Do they have children together?
Posted by: cjcandace
Posted on: 2004-09-03 23:28:02
Sounds like your sister is in a tough situation. Do they have children together?
Posted by: cherenekry
Posted on: 2004-09-07 13:02:52
I'm amazed that most of the discussion of working moms implies that they have a choice. Most working moms work because they MUST work. The only alternative is to subject their children to life in crime-ridden neighborhoods, close to crime and gangs. That arrogant stay-at-home mom who shamed working moms should realize that she is a woman of privilege, and someone else is working so that she has the leisure to choose to stay home.
I do not really agree
Posted by: autumnbal
Posted on: 2004-09-07 15:45:46
I think some moms work becuase they have to, but there are those mothers who work becuase they choose too.....
And I do no think we should jugde mothers either way!
Posted by: autumnbal
Posted on: 2004-09-07 15:45:46
I think some moms work becuase they have to, but there are those mothers who work becuase they choose too.....
And I do no think we should jugde mothers either way!
I AGREE!
Posted by: mscaralee
Posted on: 2004-09-07 17:55:29
I completely agree. I was a working mom because I HAD to work. We couldnt manage it on my husbands salary alone. It was the hardest thing to put my little baby into daycare, it was not fun. Then I sold my business and got enough for it to pay off all our bills except our mortgage. Now I am a stay at home mom because I can be. I have been on both sides, and BOTH sides are hard work. WE ALL HAVE IT HARD! Unless of course you are blessed with a husband who contributes. I don't. My stay at home job is 24/7, and when I worked, my day was only half over when I got home...then I was a mommy until I collapsed into bed every night. I believe that most working moms would stay at home if they could.
Posted by: mscaralee
Posted on: 2004-09-07 17:55:29
I completely agree. I was a working mom because I HAD to work. We couldnt manage it on my husbands salary alone. It was the hardest thing to put my little baby into daycare, it was not fun. Then I sold my business and got enough for it to pay off all our bills except our mortgage. Now I am a stay at home mom because I can be. I have been on both sides, and BOTH sides are hard work. WE ALL HAVE IT HARD! Unless of course you are blessed with a husband who contributes. I don't. My stay at home job is 24/7, and when I worked, my day was only half over when I got home...then I was a mommy until I collapsed into bed every night. I believe that most working moms would stay at home if they could.
lucky me
Posted by: kathycald
Posted on: 2004-09-08 20:06:27
I have a daughter who is handicapped and just recently quit working after 14 years. I thank god every day that I am able to do this. While I was working I actually worked with many moms who complained about their kids driving them crazy and actually stayed late at work to avoid going home. It made me sick.
Posted by: kathycald
Posted on: 2004-09-08 20:06:27
I have a daughter who is handicapped and just recently quit working after 14 years. I thank god every day that I am able to do this. While I was working I actually worked with many moms who complained about their kids driving them crazy and actually stayed late at work to avoid going home. It made me sick.
mostly agree
Posted by: huronm
Posted on: 2004-09-09 15:53:20
I mostly agree. I am a stay at home mom of five. I am grateful that I get to stay at home. I have a husband that helps me with the kids tremendously. When he gets home from work he won't get mad if dinner is not ready instead he'll tell me to rest and he'll make it himself.He always says that my job is harder then his. He says he gets to get away everyday and my job never ends. He understands that there is no time off.But that also goes for moms that work, they work all day and then go home and work. The only difference is they get away from the kids for awhile. I also believe as mothers we shouln't judge other mothers. I think we should all respect each others decision on weather we go to work or we stay at home and agree that both are hard in diffrent ways and both jobs are to be respected. I don't agree with the comment that all moms would stay at home if given the opportunity. I have several friends that say they couldn't stay at home even if given the opportunity, and some who are able but don't because they say that they wouldn't be able to handle it.
Posted by: huronm
Posted on: 2004-09-09 15:53:20
I mostly agree. I am a stay at home mom of five. I am grateful that I get to stay at home. I have a husband that helps me with the kids tremendously. When he gets home from work he won't get mad if dinner is not ready instead he'll tell me to rest and he'll make it himself.He always says that my job is harder then his. He says he gets to get away everyday and my job never ends. He understands that there is no time off.But that also goes for moms that work, they work all day and then go home and work. The only difference is they get away from the kids for awhile. I also believe as mothers we shouln't judge other mothers. I think we should all respect each others decision on weather we go to work or we stay at home and agree that both are hard in diffrent ways and both jobs are to be respected. I don't agree with the comment that all moms would stay at home if given the opportunity. I have several friends that say they couldn't stay at home even if given the opportunity, and some who are able but don't because they say that they wouldn't be able to handle it.
I Agree & there are more factors to consider!
Posted by: arielshira
Posted on: 2004-09-10 14:12:28
Thank you so much for this message. I totally agree! I was astounded that this was not discussed. I think it's wonderful if a woman can and chooses to stay home with her kids. However, the reality in the U.S. and most other countries around the WORLD is that women do not have that choice.
We need to have this discussion in a larger context. We need to ask questions like:
-Why aren't most COMPANIES more accomodating for women who have children in general? For example, very few companies provide on-site child care but some do. We should demand more to do the same. Many companies don't allow ANY maternity leave. The ones who do, generally allow 2-6 weeks only! Why aren't there more part-time jobs offered that would allow women to be with their children more? I am sure many women would choose to work only part-time if those jobs provided enough to live on! We must question our economic climate, not "working moms". Mothers are undervalued in our culture in general.
-Why in our country do our tax dollars go overwhelmingly into the military and prisons and so little into education for our children? Our government and the multi-million dollar companies that benefit and exist solely because of this should be ashamed- not moms who work!
-What about "stay-at-home" moms and "working moms" who are not emotionally available for their children? Many moms are not present for themselves or their children even when they stay at home. Parenting, whether a woman works or not, is a full-time job. It's about the QUALITY NOT QUANTITY of time women spend with their children!
-Why are dads never questioned about being "working dads"? "Working Dad" isn't even a term!
-Why was the audience on this show mostly comprised of white, middle class women? These are the women who have the privledge to stay home! There is not true equality in our country (and I feel blessed to be an American for many reasons) because we do not all have the same opportunities. Most women, white women and women of color, have to work in the U.S. They have to work long hours, often at more than one job because of low wages. Minimum wage is not enough to be called a living wage, that is, one that usually a person with no children can live on.
-Why is their so much unemployment and poverty in our country? Because of the state of our economy, many women MUST commute far away, sometimes several hours daily just to get to their jobs because there ARE NO JOBS available in their communities.
It was painful to see so much judgment from the "stay-at home moms" who simply are not aware of how MOST other families live.
-Why are women still paid less than men at the workplace?
-Why do we put such high esteem on men who work but not on women who work?
My mom was able to stay at home with me until I was 7 years old. After that she and my father divorced and she HAD to work to support us even with child support. She worked as a teacher and was committed not only to me but to so many thousands of children and teenagers she taught for over 20 years. She now works in conflict-resolution to help teachers teach their students (and each other) how to work together and resolve conflict and differences peacefully.
Dr. Phil stated how shameful it is that teachers are so underpaid and undervalued in our society.
My father is a doctor who has had a pediatric practice in East Oakland, CA for almost 25 years. Most of his patients are under-privileged, under-served and "at-risk" and many become teen moms. We need to look at the larger picture to even have a productive discussion around these issues. There are many reasons why there is so much teen pregnancy in this country and it is NOT because moms are working! I have tremendous respect for both of my parents. Ironically, I often wished I had more time with my DAD because HE was absent MOST of the time! My parents made sure that I had an incredibly well-rounded education inside and outside of school.
My mother enjoys and seriously values her work as an educator. Growing up seeing her fulfilled not only in her role as a mother but also in her work helping others only enriched her parenting skills. This taught me about the importance of balance in life. Through their jobs and the way that they treat others in their daily lives, I learned how to respect both myself and others. They taught me to value the gifts of differences across culture, race, class- the list goes on. They also taught me that I have choices. A large reason that I had choices like access to quality education from pre-school through college, is because they had money to pay for this! Most Americans do not.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were more people employed in this country so parents were not struggling, sometimes starving (yes, I mean that literally) and generally stressed so that they could be both physically and, more importantly, EMOTIONALLY present and available for their children? These are true "family values".
I hope that their is a Part 3 to these shows and that it isn't "Mom vs. Mom". I think that's a terrible title, Dr. Phil! We should not pit ourselves against each other as if our values are so different. Stay-at-home moms and working moms need and can learn from each other. Let's work together ladies!
Posted by: arielshira
Posted on: 2004-09-10 14:12:28
Thank you so much for this message. I totally agree! I was astounded that this was not discussed. I think it's wonderful if a woman can and chooses to stay home with her kids. However, the reality in the U.S. and most other countries around the WORLD is that women do not have that choice.
We need to have this discussion in a larger context. We need to ask questions like:
-Why aren't most COMPANIES more accomodating for women who have children in general? For example, very few companies provide on-site child care but some do. We should demand more to do the same. Many companies don't allow ANY maternity leave. The ones who do, generally allow 2-6 weeks only! Why aren't there more part-time jobs offered that would allow women to be with their children more? I am sure many women would choose to work only part-time if those jobs provided enough to live on! We must question our economic climate, not "working moms". Mothers are undervalued in our culture in general.
-Why in our country do our tax dollars go overwhelmingly into the military and prisons and so little into education for our children? Our government and the multi-million dollar companies that benefit and exist solely because of this should be ashamed- not moms who work!
-What about "stay-at-home" moms and "working moms" who are not emotionally available for their children? Many moms are not present for themselves or their children even when they stay at home. Parenting, whether a woman works or not, is a full-time job. It's about the QUALITY NOT QUANTITY of time women spend with their children!
-Why are dads never questioned about being "working dads"? "Working Dad" isn't even a term!
-Why was the audience on this show mostly comprised of white, middle class women? These are the women who have the privledge to stay home! There is not true equality in our country (and I feel blessed to be an American for many reasons) because we do not all have the same opportunities. Most women, white women and women of color, have to work in the U.S. They have to work long hours, often at more than one job because of low wages. Minimum wage is not enough to be called a living wage, that is, one that usually a person with no children can live on.
-Why is their so much unemployment and poverty in our country? Because of the state of our economy, many women MUST commute far away, sometimes several hours daily just to get to their jobs because there ARE NO JOBS available in their communities.
It was painful to see so much judgment from the "stay-at home moms" who simply are not aware of how MOST other families live.
-Why are women still paid less than men at the workplace?
-Why do we put such high esteem on men who work but not on women who work?
My mom was able to stay at home with me until I was 7 years old. After that she and my father divorced and she HAD to work to support us even with child support. She worked as a teacher and was committed not only to me but to so many thousands of children and teenagers she taught for over 20 years. She now works in conflict-resolution to help teachers teach their students (and each other) how to work together and resolve conflict and differences peacefully.
Dr. Phil stated how shameful it is that teachers are so underpaid and undervalued in our society.
My father is a doctor who has had a pediatric practice in East Oakland, CA for almost 25 years. Most of his patients are under-privileged, under-served and "at-risk" and many become teen moms. We need to look at the larger picture to even have a productive discussion around these issues. There are many reasons why there is so much teen pregnancy in this country and it is NOT because moms are working! I have tremendous respect for both of my parents. Ironically, I often wished I had more time with my DAD because HE was absent MOST of the time! My parents made sure that I had an incredibly well-rounded education inside and outside of school.
My mother enjoys and seriously values her work as an educator. Growing up seeing her fulfilled not only in her role as a mother but also in her work helping others only enriched her parenting skills. This taught me about the importance of balance in life. Through their jobs and the way that they treat others in their daily lives, I learned how to respect both myself and others. They taught me to value the gifts of differences across culture, race, class- the list goes on. They also taught me that I have choices. A large reason that I had choices like access to quality education from pre-school through college, is because they had money to pay for this! Most Americans do not.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were more people employed in this country so parents were not struggling, sometimes starving (yes, I mean that literally) and generally stressed so that they could be both physically and, more importantly, EMOTIONALLY present and available for their children? These are true "family values".
I hope that their is a Part 3 to these shows and that it isn't "Mom vs. Mom". I think that's a terrible title, Dr. Phil! We should not pit ourselves against each other as if our values are so different. Stay-at-home moms and working moms need and can learn from each other. Let's work together ladies!
FMLA -
Posted by: ange1s
Posted on: 2004-09-11 23:03:27
Companies that have over 50 employees have to follow the "Family Medical Leave Act". That is 12 weeks unpaid leave. Unpaid is the operative word. Most families in this country can not afford that.
Posted by: ange1s
Posted on: 2004-09-11 23:03:27
Companies that have over 50 employees have to follow the "Family Medical Leave Act". That is 12 weeks unpaid leave. Unpaid is the operative word. Most families in this country can not afford that.
God bless you for your comments!!!
Posted by: robingk
Posted on: 2004-09-18 08:25:36
I too couldn't beleive this wasn't addressed. We don't all have the option. My wonderful husband is a hard working man who has never been able to find a job that paid what he was worth. He always seemed to end up in companies that were bought out and let him go, or just closed their doors. So I worked to ensure we always had the(ridiculously high) insurance we needed and my kids were in a daycare from the time they were six weeks old. It broke my heart everytime I dropped them off. How dare I be made to feel guilty for that!!! How dare I be told to hang my head in shame. You stay at home moms that have the luxury of that choice are lucky indeed. Please try and be more compasionate to those of use who aren't.
Posted by: robingk
Posted on: 2004-09-18 08:25:36
I too couldn't beleive this wasn't addressed. We don't all have the option. My wonderful husband is a hard working man who has never been able to find a job that paid what he was worth. He always seemed to end up in companies that were bought out and let him go, or just closed their doors. So I worked to ensure we always had the(ridiculously high) insurance we needed and my kids were in a daycare from the time they were six weeks old. It broke my heart everytime I dropped them off. How dare I be made to feel guilty for that!!! How dare I be told to hang my head in shame. You stay at home moms that have the luxury of that choice are lucky indeed. Please try and be more compasionate to those of use who aren't.
Posted by: rahmani
Posted on: 2004-09-10 17:40:22
Bless you for saying so well what so many of us working women feel.
I do not agree
Posted by: euph29
Posted on: 2004-09-13 16:39:50
I am a SAHM but most defintly not a "woman of privlege". This was my choice. I gave up spending money, a larger house, and the dignity of having my own money for a choice that is best for me and my family. I don't understand why we must be on sides though. The SAHM mom on the show (I am sorry I do not know her name) should be ashamed of herself and gave all of us a bad name. I do not think like that!
Posted by: euph29
Posted on: 2004-09-13 16:39:50
I am a SAHM but most defintly not a "woman of privlege". This was my choice. I gave up spending money, a larger house, and the dignity of having my own money for a choice that is best for me and my family. I don't understand why we must be on sides though. The SAHM mom on the show (I am sorry I do not know her name) should be ashamed of herself and gave all of us a bad name. I do not think like that!
I couldn't agree more!
Posted by: geenuz
Posted on: 2004-09-15 10:04:40
I agree 100% with your sentiments. There are a number of mothers out there who don't have that choice of whether they want to work or stay at home with their children. It's a shame that people can be so critical of others before they really know their situation. I was disgusted listening to the comments of the stay-at-home mom. I think there are a number of working moms who, if given the choice, would stay at home with the kids if they could. I don't think my children are any less healthy and happy because I work and I wish people would not be so critical of others.
Posted by: geenuz
Posted on: 2004-09-15 10:04:40
I agree 100% with your sentiments. There are a number of mothers out there who don't have that choice of whether they want to work or stay at home with their children. It's a shame that people can be so critical of others before they really know their situation. I was disgusted listening to the comments of the stay-at-home mom. I think there are a number of working moms who, if given the choice, would stay at home with the kids if they could. I don't think my children are any less healthy and happy because I work and I wish people would not be so critical of others.
Working Makes Money
Posted by: sushi1062
Posted on: 2004-11-23 09:36:48
I work because me and my son enjoy the roof over our heads and we think food is delicious too.
I also believe it is arrogant and rather privileged to assume that most working mothers have a choice.
Posted by: sushi1062
Posted on: 2004-11-23 09:36:48
I work because me and my son enjoy the roof over our heads and we think food is delicious too.
I also believe it is arrogant and rather privileged to assume that most working mothers have a choice.
(((HUGS)))
Posted by: ange1s
Posted on: 2004-09-11 23:03:27
Your sister is in an abusive marriage. Please see what you can do - unobtrusively - to help her find her way out. Read about sociopathic behavior, and domestic violence online.... You will see your brother in law. Even if he is not "beating" her - economic abuse, the verbal, and antisocial behavior is abuse.... I have a relative who is in a similar situation - and she is being beaten. I just found out when she finally decided to report the violence. Keep a porch light on for her. Again, Hugs to you!
Posted by: ange1s
Posted on: 2004-09-11 23:03:27
Your sister is in an abusive marriage. Please see what you can do - unobtrusively - to help her find her way out. Read about sociopathic behavior, and domestic violence online.... You will see your brother in law. Even if he is not "beating" her - economic abuse, the verbal, and antisocial behavior is abuse.... I have a relative who is in a similar situation - and she is being beaten. I just found out when she finally decided to report the violence. Keep a porch light on for her. Again, Hugs to you!
