05/24 Inside the Cult

1st Dibs! Where's the Transcripts? BrainWash/Learn
Posted by: 0george
Posted on: 2005-05-23 14:43:32

http://www.drphil.com/show/show.jhtml?contentId=3109_brainwashedbrides.xml

Wonder the Diffrence of BrainWashing and Educating?

the dictionary idea is; one is forced and the other isn't yet the TRUTH enforced by the Goverment/Parents/Media etc... are ALL LITERALLY the same then.

when one chooses and the other is enforced/forced.

So does one has to instill a desire? or preset in ones' self.

i I view it as when one is ALLOWED to question what they're learning that it can be Called an Education.
infanticide
Posted by: barryauld
Posted on: 2005-05-24 09:01:06

Is anybody worried about infanticide? I'm an archaeologist and I have seen in my work that there are communities such as the brothel houses of Roman period Jerusalem where no offspring were desired or if they were only the females were kept to work in the brothels later. Normally it was the sewers that were filled with unwanted babies left to die. What if Jeffs simply says that he wants no more boys and there already enough of them? Will he leave them exposed in isolated areas to die. Although this is a bit sensationalist I do think this is a possibility we have to consider.
infanticide
Posted by: lndwlkr
Posted on: 2005-05-24 15:49:26

In fact there is much evidence of this. Inside the Utah/Arizona compound are two cemetaries, one called Babyland and the other Isaac V. Carling, there are also numerous family and hidden graves in the surrounding isolated landscape.
There is no government oversight of who is born and last year I documented over 56 unmarked child graves in this compound. We showed that the numbers of graves and reported deaths according to state statistics did not match. We asked the state to look into this and declare it a crime scene. We contacted the state coroners office and said that the deaths were all ruled accidental and yet some of the circumstances surrounding the deaths were statistically very unlikely. Flora and I also turned this information into the FBI and the United Nations through Child Protection Project, the organization responsible for rescuing the Fawns. Flora Jessop directs this non profit and we are still waiting for the United Nations to reply. our only hope to realize our goals is a public who is informed and united agaisnt this abuse.

www.childpro.org
FEAR OBLIGATION AND GUILT - EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
Posted by: anon_slc
Posted on: 2005-05-24 17:27:43

Some books which provide great insight of "disorders" found among people at church and often within our own families:

Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward and Donna Frazier

Why Is It Always About You?: The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism by Sandy Hotchkiss and James Masterson

Stop Walking on Eggshells; Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care about Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. Mason, Randi Kreger

Behind the Masks: Personality Disorders in the Church by C. Marvin Pate, Sheryl L. Pate OR Behind the Masks: Personality Disorders in Religious Behavior by Wayne E. Oates

High Conflict Personalities: Understanding and Resolving Their Costly (Legal) Disputes by William A. Eddy

Dr. Oates gives an overview of various "masks" manifested in various Personality Disorders then provides descriptions of how these masks appear in our congregations.
Thankyou
Posted by: missjane2
Posted on: 2005-05-24 23:29:41

Thankyou anon slc for posting those. I jotted those down. They sound like they are really good.
lndwlkr
Posted by: golfallday
Posted on: 2005-05-24 19:23:58

Do you feel that there are a large number of deaths related to farm type accidents or from children being on the work force? On the show we saw a boy who looked no more than 10 driving a tractor, and I have personally seen boys that look as young as 8 framing houses. Also those children riding in the back of a pickup. Aren't these people smart or caring enough to safeguard against these types of accidents? Do they go unreported for fear of being prosecuted for endangerment and the child buried in an unmarked grave as if he has no worth?
Deaths in Colorado City
Posted by: orangetime
Posted on: 2005-05-24 23:12:26

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on this board. I live in St. George Utah and the Spectrum Newspaper reports the death of many of their children. Many of their infants are born with serious birth defects that result in death. There are also many other deaths but the never mention the cause of death.

Joseph Smith started the Mormon Church and introduced polygamy. They used to hide from the law in the early days of the LDS church and finally decided to live the law of the land. Almost everyone here is related to each other through Polygamy. As one man on today's show said Polygamy was started 200 years ago. The Mormons now excommunicate anyone who is involved in this practise.

The young women in Colorado City are always friendly to me whenever they come to shop here in St. George. This is probably because I comment on how cute their babies are. I hate it whenever I hear someone yell out ... "Hey Pligs". I feel so sorry for the young girls knowing how they will have to grow up. It would be amazing if Dr. Phil could at least make a dent in stopping this practise.

Thanks Dr. Phil for doing your best for helping both of the Fawns and helping the young teenages that are kicked out.

Posted by: remnantmem
Posted on: 2005-05-25 09:12:57

I am sorry but your information on how polygamy started in the LDS church is wrong. It was not Joseph Smith Jr. but Brigham young after he was in the North East and met a group called the Cocrinites (not sure of the spelling). If you look at the facts of the whole polygamy issue when it comes to Joseph Smith there are no women who were married to him until after his death. I would like to know how a man can marry a women after he is dead and cannot give his consent. The Polygamy issue was well as many other traditions of the Utah Mormon Church that are associated, with the exception of the Book Of Mormon, with Joseph Smith Jr are lies and can be very soundly refuted as not coming from Joseph Smith Jr. Plus you have the fact that in many sermons and also in many speeches as well as in other areas Joseph Smith Jr spoke out agenst Polygamy. The truth of the matter is that Brigham Young and many of the church men who fallowed him to Utah were the men who practiced Polygamy. And the group that went with Brighm Young was less than 1/4th of the whole LDS Chruch after Joseph Smith Jr's death.
I would like to say that while I admire Mormons for their strangth of conviction and dedication to their faith, it is wrongly placed in a deep bed of lies that not many know the truths that are their faith. This is an unfortunate thing because the original LDS faith was and still is a wonderful thing, but it is not what the Utah Mormons have and that is for sure.

Posted by: bmw32401
Posted on: 2005-05-25 15:10:29

I am sorry to tell you but Joseph Smith had many wives at least 6 or more of which were married to other men when he took them as his. This is available in the LDS church's own geneaology records and also found in the D&C. BTW, Mormons baptize the dead all the time, sometimes many generations back and you are able to be sealed to someone after their death. Sealing is a mormon marriage. Therefore you are very very wrong on all counts. The original faith was based on lies. The Book of Mormon has been changed from its original version. The religion is filled with Messonic influences. The temple ceremony began only 2 months after Joseph became a Freemason. Even though conventional Mormonism does not allow for polygamy it is a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom. You claim that the Mormon faith has been corrupted is wrong. The FLDS are the closest practicers to the original beginnings of LDS today. They practice just like Joseph Smith. JS was married to 14 year olds. It is in the records. (to his credit that wasn't such a rarity then.)Their doctrines say that people with black skin are tainted (Nephi, Alma, Jacob etc.), they changed that in the 70's. Brigam Young only led after JS was killed in a gun fight. There are hundreds of documents that the Mormon church does not share with it's followers or discuss in classes including that Eden was in Missouri (D&C 116:1) and God lives by the star Kolob (Abraham 3:3-16). They do not reveal this to new converts and lower followers because they do not believe they will have enough faith to handle it. I was Mormon, you either are not or are being misled by your church. You are correct about the bed of lies. The faith was grown from a lie and continues to be filled with lie upon lie to cover that up.
OH PLEASE...
Posted by: debdupe
Posted on: 2005-05-31 13:39:35

Where's your proof that "the LDS faith was grown from a lie and continues to be filled with lie upon lie"? You are entitled to your opinion, but that's all your statement is...your opinion.
The truth
Posted by: linnyv12
Posted on: 2005-05-31 16:20:41

I find it very interesting that people who leave the LDS Church just can't leave it alone. If you do not believe, fine, but to preach false doctrine is so wrong. There is folklore within the members of the church but to truly know the doctrine you should take the time to search it out. Don't ask your minister or some other clergy. Do the work and reading yourself. If you wanted to buy a Toyota vehicle would you go to a Nissan dealer and expect to get honest answers? I think not!
Wrong, wrong, wrong
Posted by: linnyv12
Posted on: 2005-05-31 16:35:09

You are so wrong in your comment about practicing polygamy to be a requirement to get into the Celestial Kingdom. Entrance into the Celestial Kingdom is based on one's worthiness not the number of times one has been married. The darkness they talk about is not the skin but the countenance that one has. I have seen many Caucasions with a "black" countenance. I am not being misled for I study, ponder and pray. I am not blindly led by someone. God gave me a brain and I use it on a daily basis.
I would suggest others do the same.

Posted by: remnantmem
Posted on: 2005-06-05 15:56:35

First of all you have been led astray on some things. Joseph Smith was not killed in a gun fight, yes he was shot to death along with his brother Hyrum. But it was when a mob stormed the jail where he was being held on trumped up charges. And I would love to see when Joseph Smith married these other women. Because all the information that I have and have looked at says that these women married him after his death. Which I think is not fair becaue he had no say in it. In his son Joseph III memoirs Joseph III talks about meeting a "mormon" man who came to this conclusion. I am not a "mormon" But I have been raised in the RLDS church and am now a member of the Remnant Church of Jesus Chirst of LDS. I know for a fact that Brigham Young was the one marring 14 year olds. A very good family friend told me that either her grandmother or Mother was supposed to marry Brigham Young when she was 13 but chose not to and her father took her back to Missouri so that she would not have to. Her father was very agenst it. That is when he knew that Brigham Young was false.
remnantmem
Posted by: golfallday
Posted on: 2005-05-25 17:22:30

You should do more studying and find out the truth. BMW told you the real facts so pay attention to that post. You'd like to know how a man can marry a woman after he is dead? Well so would I, yet Mormons do Temple sealings and baptisms everyday for people who have died. In fact they have been asked by Jewish people to quit doing this for holocaust victims and leave them alone. They get names of dead people everywhere and send their members thru the Temple to "do their work" for them. So if you don't accept the religion while you are alive they will get you when you are dead.
Oh please
Posted by: linnyv12
Posted on: 2005-05-31 16:38:23

One of the things my church stands for is a living Christ. We do not believe that He no longer cares for his children here upon the earth. One of the most wonderful principles is the Freedom to Choose. This is an eternal principle and even after the spirit separates from the body the spriit being still is given this wonderful principle and opportunity. Please, understand earth life isn't all that there is. We are not pieces on a chess board. We are sons and daughters of a living God who loves and wants for us all that He has. What parent wouldn't?
where did you get your info?
Posted by: juliwriter
Posted on: 2005-05-25 22:42:07

I'm not sure where your source comes from, but it's well established that Joseph Smith had 14 wives and did preach polygamy. This is why his first wife left the church and with her son established the RLDS church.

This is the sad thing about the Mormon church. Because of these misconceptions they will be persecuted. Yeah, everyone thinks mormons are nice people but will burn in...fill in the blank. Just check out the LDSchurch's track record--I dare you to find a better model of good citizenship and internal welfare. They take care of their own, and yours too. Judge them by their actions, not your pastor's opinion or whatever anti-mormon lit you've picked up at your local library.

Posted by: remnantmem
Posted on: 2005-05-27 13:08:33

Actually I was born and raised in the RLDS church and since 2002 have been a member of the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of LDS and we actually have a prophet of the seed of Joseph. I have never recieved any anti-mormon material or preaching. And I have seen the records of who stayed and who left after Joseph Jr.s death. I also know that while Joseph Jr was in jail he gave a blessing to his son Joseph the 3rd and in the blessing he named Joseph the 3rd to be the next prophet after his death. That is why Brother Young tried to get Emma and Joseph the #rd to go to Utah with him. Emma refused because she knew that her son was to be the next prophet of the church. It is all in RLDS Church history and in a book written by Joseph the 3rd. I admire the Mormons for their convictions. Just this past winter Fred Larson (the prophet of the Remnant chruch and the grandson of Fred M Smith) was in Utah at BYU to speek about the church with his wife Mary Lou. And if you look at the marriage records of Joseph Smith Jr. that have not been altered you will find that all the marriages took place after his death. But I do believe that Mormons have been given a bad name.
Many Wives
Posted by: houstondma
Posted on: 2005-05-27 00:55:55

You don't know LDS church history. Not only did Joseph Smith originate the practice of polygamy through "revelation," but he prophesied that his wife Emma would have to accept it or be damned and would die. He was married to and sealed to several of the wives of his FRIENDS. I can't believe you would ask the question of how a man and woman can be married after death and know Mormon theology. One or the other can be "sealed" for eternity (if not time) in the temple. It is no secret that JS spoke against polygamy while he practiced it secretly. He also spoke against drinking while he secretly drank. This was a con man, not a man of God.

Posted by: remnantmem
Posted on: 2005-05-27 13:08:33

I am sorry but I don't believe in the practice of marrying a man after he has died. Especially since the man can't put in his two cents about the prospect. The supposed "revelation" that claims polygamy was brought out 14 or so years after JS death. If it was a real document then Brother Young would have been waving it like a flag for all the church members to see before and after Josephs death before going to Utah. I have never seen evidence of Joseph Smith Jr ever drinking. I have seen in person many men today who claim to be of God who go out and drink and have relations with women out side of marriage. I have never once seen it evidenced that Joseph Smith ever did those things. And if anyone can give me an eye witness that is truely reliable then hey let me have it.
Plenty of evidence
Posted by: houstondma
Posted on: 2005-05-28 01:00:32

LDS are threatened with excommunication and "the talk" with the Bishop if they possess anything considered to be "anti-Mormon" literature. That's where you will find the evidence for which you are looking on any number of the foibles of Joseph Smith. Court documents exist on his arrest as a money digger, there are first-hand accounts of his marriages by the women he married, there are eyewitness accounts by the friends of JS that he drank. Perhaps you have never seen this information because you haven't opened your eyes. Another point: just because you have never seen the multiplicity of evidence of JS's lies and indiscretions doesn't mean that evidence does not exist. It does.