Bad Influences: Twins
Dr. Phil speaks with guests who say someone they love is a bad influence."My sister and I are a commodity," says one sister of identical twins. "The quickest way to make money is to get into the adult sex industry, period!" She's pressuring her sister to get involved.
Her reluctant twin explains, "[She] has said to me numerous times, 'Think of all the money we could make working as a team in a legal brothel.'"
The owner of a legal brothel estimates that the twins could earn half a million dollars a year working for him. "I've taken legal prostitution to a whole new level. I'm a businessman that helps these girls achieve their goals, and nothing more," he says. "I never try to convince girls to come to work [for me.] I give them the pros and the cons and let them make the decision on their own."
"The thought of having sex with multiple guys and on top of that, having [my sister] included, does not appeal to me one bit," says the twin who objects. "I don't think [she] has thought about how working in the sex industry could have a negative effect on her future. The only voice of reason for [her] at this point is the money. [She] won't listen to me right now."
Her twin argues, "It's safe, legal and the biggest one ... makes the money! I refuse to work hard and make chump change. I'm sorry, I don't want to do that. I don't see it as degrading. I see it as 'Hey, I scratch your back, you scratch mine. We both know what's involved, so no one gets hurt.' I want my sister just to give it a chance, to know that it's OK, that we can do this, and that we're not degrading ourselves."
Her sister asks Dr. Phil, "How can I make my sister understand that if she gets into the sex industry, this is going to haunt her for the rest of her life?""Why do you say it's not a good idea?" Dr. Phil asks the twin who refuses.
"For starters, she's not thinking ahead. If she makes the money, she's not going to be happy. I know she will not be happy," she says.
"It's not like I just want to do it because of the money," her sister argues. "I have a reason, I have a justification for it."
"Let me guess. World peace?" asks Dr. Phil. "I mean, really, what are you thinking? You said, 'We are a commodity.' I find that absolutely unfathomable ... A commodity is something that is sold. And you're saying that you and your sister are going to go and sell yourselves as prostitutes!"
The twins and Dr. Phil debate the use of the word "commodity." He turns to the owner of a legal brothel: "You say the two of them can come to your place and make a half a million dollars this year?"
"Minimum," he says. "They're unique."Dr. Phil turns back to the twins: "You're talking about selling yourself sexually for money ... And if you're going to be a commodity in that environment, then I guess the two of you would like double team guys, get in bed with them together? That's where the big money is, right?" he asks.
"It's threesomes, but that wouldn't happen with sisters," says the brothel owner.
"Yeah. Of course not. That would be wrong!" says Dr. Phil, sarcastically. He turns to the twin who wants to work at the brothel: "So you're saying it's not demeaning to you to go to this place and sell yourself for sex. That's not demeaning?"
"Not to me," she says. "Because I have a reason for it."
"And the end justifies the means?" Dr. Phil asks. She agrees.Dr. Phil asks the brothel owner, "You don't think you are exploiting women?"
"Not at all. These women are coming there because they want to work there," he says. "Girls that don't want to work for $40,000 a year when they can work for $200,000 a year. She's got goals that she wants to achieve and she's never going to do it at a normal, $30-40,000 a year job."
Dr. Phil turns to Anne Bissel, the author of Memoirs of a Sex Industry Survivor and founder of Sex Industry Survivors Anonymous. She worked in the sex industry for five years. "I think whether or not it's legal, it's still paid rape," says Anne. "I was in it for five years and got out, thank God, and now I help sex industry survivors all over the U.S. They call me and they're in pain. They don't want to be in it. Whether it's legal or not, they have Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. They have nightmares, they have flashbacks. I still have these things. How much money is your self-esteem worth?"
The twins still don't agree on working in the sex industry together. "I know for a fact I would be absolutely miserable. Whether I made $200 or a million dollars, it doesn't matter because deep down I'll know that I did something disgusting to me," says one.Her sister says she won't feel that way because her goal is to make enough money to produce a comedy show.
"Well you ain't going to produce it on your back," says Dr. Phil. "You can't make enough money to make a television show work."
Dr. Phil wants to know why she isn't satisfied with her sister's answer. "She's telling you that she would find it absolutely disgusting for some man to crawl up on top of her and have sex with her. That it would make her sick and she would be in pain afterward. If you know that's how she feels, why would you still try to get her to do that?"
"The only reason why I asked her to check it out was to make sure she saw all perspectives," she says.
The brothel owner says he'll still employ one twin if he can't get both. But the twin who wants to work for him says, "I won't do it if she doesn't."
Her reluctant twin explains, "[She] has said to me numerous times, 'Think of all the money we could make working as a team in a legal brothel.'"
The owner of a legal brothel estimates that the twins could earn half a million dollars a year working for him. "I've taken legal prostitution to a whole new level. I'm a businessman that helps these girls achieve their goals, and nothing more," he says. "I never try to convince girls to come to work [for me.] I give them the pros and the cons and let them make the decision on their own."
Her twin argues, "It's safe, legal and the biggest one ... makes the money! I refuse to work hard and make chump change. I'm sorry, I don't want to do that. I don't see it as degrading. I see it as 'Hey, I scratch your back, you scratch mine. We both know what's involved, so no one gets hurt.' I want my sister just to give it a chance, to know that it's OK, that we can do this, and that we're not degrading ourselves."
Her sister asks Dr. Phil, "How can I make my sister understand that if she gets into the sex industry, this is going to haunt her for the rest of her life?""Why do you say it's not a good idea?" Dr. Phil asks the twin who refuses.
"For starters, she's not thinking ahead. If she makes the money, she's not going to be happy. I know she will not be happy," she says.
"It's not like I just want to do it because of the money," her sister argues. "I have a reason, I have a justification for it."
"Let me guess. World peace?" asks Dr. Phil. "I mean, really, what are you thinking? You said, 'We are a commodity.' I find that absolutely unfathomable ... A commodity is something that is sold. And you're saying that you and your sister are going to go and sell yourselves as prostitutes!"
The twins and Dr. Phil debate the use of the word "commodity." He turns to the owner of a legal brothel: "You say the two of them can come to your place and make a half a million dollars this year?"
"Minimum," he says. "They're unique."Dr. Phil turns back to the twins: "You're talking about selling yourself sexually for money ... And if you're going to be a commodity in that environment, then I guess the two of you would like double team guys, get in bed with them together? That's where the big money is, right?" he asks.
"It's threesomes, but that wouldn't happen with sisters," says the brothel owner.
"Not to me," she says. "Because I have a reason for it."
"And the end justifies the means?" Dr. Phil asks. She agrees.Dr. Phil asks the brothel owner, "You don't think you are exploiting women?"
"Not at all. These women are coming there because they want to work there," he says. "Girls that don't want to work for $40,000 a year when they can work for $200,000 a year. She's got goals that she wants to achieve and she's never going to do it at a normal, $30-40,000 a year job."
The twins still don't agree on working in the sex industry together. "I know for a fact I would be absolutely miserable. Whether I made $200 or a million dollars, it doesn't matter because deep down I'll know that I did something disgusting to me," says one.Her sister says she won't feel that way because her goal is to make enough money to produce a comedy show.
"Well you ain't going to produce it on your back," says Dr. Phil. "You can't make enough money to make a television show work."
Dr. Phil wants to know why she isn't satisfied with her sister's answer. "She's telling you that she would find it absolutely disgusting for some man to crawl up on top of her and have sex with her. That it would make her sick and she would be in pain afterward. If you know that's how she feels, why would you still try to get her to do that?"
"The only reason why I asked her to check it out was to make sure she saw all perspectives," she says.
The brothel owner says he'll still employ one twin if he can't get both. But the twin who wants to work for him says, "I won't do it if she doesn't."
Dr. Phil asks him, "Does it bother you at all that these are someone's daughters?"
"It bothers me more that the conservatives allowed 1,000 young boys in Boston to be molested by priests," he says.
"OK. I can't argue with that ... other than to say it has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about!" responds Dr. Phil.
Anne reminds the twins, "I have nightmares and flashbacks. I can never see a man in a normal way. My life has been impacted and I'll never be free of it completely. The journey to healing is very tough. There's a high mortality rate for sex industry survivors. You may be a hot ticket now, but what's going to happen down the road?"
Dr. Phil tells the twin who wants the sex industry job: "One of the things that we have to develop, as we mature in life, is what I call problem recognition skills. It's the ability to see around corners and predict the consequences of our actions. You need to recognize that there is a downside to the choices you're making."
When her sister reiterates that she won't be a part of her twin's plan, Dr. Phil tells her: "However many times she needs to hear it and however much patience you have in saying it until she gets satisfied, be very clear so you don't lead her on."