Kidnapping Follow-up

Kidnapping Follow-up
Dr. Phil checks in with the two families competing in the Ultimate Family Weight Loss Challenge.

Immediately following the last show, Lisa goes backstage for a polygraph test with Jamie Skeeters, president of the California Association of Polygraph Examiners. He asks her: "Do you know where Sam and Lindsey are? Did you assist in hiding Sam or Lindsey? Did Dan tell you that he killed Sam and Lindsey? Did you lie to Dr. Phil about anything today?" She replies no to all of these questions. "I had nothing to do with any of this except be a friend to someone who made a big mistake. I took the polygraph test to help prove that I'm innocent," Lisa says as she walks out of the room. "I just want the truth to come out."


Tina shares her thoughts. "Now, more than ever, I feel like [Lisa] has something to do with it. After she takes the polygraph test and it comes up positive or negative, I want her out of my life. I never want to see her again. Never!" She asks Dr. Phil: "Why do you think [Dan's] not telling?"

 

"I don't know," Dr. Phil replies. "It's really kind of a self-righteous delusion on his part."

 

"You're going to love Sam and Lindsey when they come home," Tina tells Dr. Phil.

 

"I'm going to be thrilled to see them and thrilled to see their arms around your neck," he replies.

Dr. Phil asks Tina how she is doing. "It's been a hell week," she replies. "As far as I'm concerned, Dr. Phil, whatever they find out it doesn't matter because she's already said things that were important at the time."

 

Dr. Phil addresses Lisa. "When you left here last time, you said that I had been hard on you and that you didn't get to say everything that you wanted to say. So I want to give you every opportunity to say anything and everything you want

to say now," he explains. "And I want you to know I'm not saying that you have any involvement in this. What I'm saying is that I want to know everything that you know."


Lisa speaks up. "When you all brought me here, I thought the whole reason was for Tina and I to put our information together with the main goal of helping to find the kids ... And I had no idea it was going to be a total accusation that I know where they are or I had anything to do with it. It just blew me away," she explains. "I'm more than willing to help any way I can, and I just felt like from the time I walked on the set last week I was treated like a common criminal."


Dr. Phil responds. "My position is that you have not been as forthcoming as you need to be, intentionally or otherwise. You have more information than you have shared. That is a matter of fact," he says. "That doesn't mean that you're involved with the disappearance of these children."

Dr. Phil explains that he asked Lisa to take a polygraph test because she is very close with Dan, Tina's ex-husband, and Tina didn't believe that Lisa was being honest. Lisa agreed to take the test. Jamie Skeeters, president of the California Association of

Polygraph examiners, administered the test to Lisa. Dr. Phil then had Pete Perrin, former president of the same association, evaluate the results independently. Dr. Phil makes clear, "Polygraph is really good if it's done well by a professional. But it's not a crystal ball; it's an investigative tool. It isn't perfect."

 

Mr. Skeeters concurs, "The polygraph is just what you said. It's an investigative tool — no more, no less."

 

"Do you feel like you're confident in the results of the polygraph and the interpretation of it?" Dr. Phil asks Mr. Skeeters.

 

"Yes sir," he replies.

 

The polygraph runs on a scale from minus 36 to plus 36, and the closer you are to minus 36, the more it indicates deception. Dr. Phil reviews Lisa's test. According to Mr. Skeeters, for many of the questions, Lisa's physiological responses indicated deception. Mr. Perrin agrees with Mr. Skeeters' interpretation of the test results.

"How do you explain that?" Dr. Phil asks Lisa.

 

"I can't. I don't know where these kids are. I swear," Lisa pleads. "And I'm actually shocked by the results."

 

Dr. Phil asks Tina for her thoughts.

 

"I want to get up and get away from her," Tina says as she moves to a seat in the audience. "I had a feeling that she knew something about it."

 

"You just say that it is absolutely wrong?" Dr. Phil asks Lisa.

 

"It is absolutely wrong," Lisa replies. "It took this total different turn. I was in shock. They stick me in this room for three and a half hours. I get back to my hotel, 15 minutes later I'm called to come back and then put through this again and the questions were changed. The wording was changed, and I just felt in my mind that something wasn't right."

 

Dr. Phil asks, "Do you understand that the goal is to find the children, not to demonize you in some way? You may have not passed the test because it's wrong, and you were already upset. You may have not passed the test because you know something in your heart of hearts and are just pushing it out of your consciousness and don't even acknowledge to yourself what you know. Lisa, I don't know. I am not trying to say that you are a kidnapper here."

"My position is, if there's something that you know that can help us find the children, then please, please, please search your

mind, search your heart," Dr. Phil implores.

 

"I have every single letter or card that he has ever written. I've got 25 or more. They're all yours. You can stake my house out, put my phone on tap. I don't care," Lisa resigns.

 

"But don't you think those letters might be useful?" Dr. Phil probes.

 

"That's why I brought them. I mean, I'll turn over everything I ever get. I don't have anything to hide," a frustrated Lisa replies.

 

"You said that Dan is extremely resourceful. He can live off the land. He has a place where he always goes and hunts that has a boat ramp and is back off of the river ... But you've not said that to anyone before," Dr. Phil questions Lisa.

 

"But it was something I thought of as all this was coming," Lisa defends herself.

Dr. Phil introduces Detective Sergeant Dennis Green with the Investigative Unit of the Independence, Missouri Police Department and Michael Sanders, Jackson County, Missouri chief prosecutor on this case.

 

"We've had children that have been missing for nine months, and I think our interest is making sure this family is reunited with

their children," Mr. Sanders says. "An entire investigation can turn on just the most minute fact. It's terribly important for people to come forward and tell us this information so we can act on it in a timely manner."

 

"You're willing to tell them anything?" Dr. Phil asks Lisa.
"I'm more than willing," Lisa replies. "They haven't bothered to contact me. How do I know? I've never been in this situation before. I don't know what a minute thing is. I've never even known anyone in jail before. I'm willing to turn over every single thing and I've told them that."

 

Dr. Phil asks Mr. Sanders, "If [Dan] doesn't turn the children over, will you proceed with this prosecution against him?"

 

"Without a doubt, very aggressively," he replies. "Dan has the keys to his jail cell and all he needs to do is pick up the phone and call somebody and we're willing to talk to him, we're willing to work with him."

"Lisa, you did have information that you didn't turn over to them. That's my issue with you," Tina explains.

 

"And that's what I'm saying I didn't know," Lisa stresses.

 

"When he told you he took the kids out of state ...

did you tell them?" Tina probes.

 

"Wasn't that when the cops were already working with you? And I did tell you," Lisa says.

 

"You might've told somebody else, but it wasn't me," Tina fires back. "They had to hear from the person that hears it from Dan. My babies could be home right now if you would have talked to them!"

 

Dr. Phil asks Lisa if she would be willing to meet with Dan if it is arranged for her, and she says she would. "And you will share all the information instantly and immediately with the investigators?" Dr. Phil asks.

 

"Absolutely," Lisa replies.

Dr. Phil asks Lisa if she has anything else she wants to say.

 

"Last week when we were taping, one of the things that was told to me about how important it was for me to come back next week, was

that Danny had tried to take his life. And I learned yesterday he has not attempted to take his life," Lisa says.

 

"We're just going to have to talk about this because you haven't been lied to about coming to this show," Dr. Phil refutes. He introduces Harold Copus, a private investigator working on the case. He asks him, "Did you or did you not tell the producers that he had made a suicide attempt in his cell?"

 

"That's what I was told," Mr. Copus says. "By Tina."

 

"If that is what was told to you, that's because it was reported to a private investigator and then reported back to our

producers," Dr. Phil explains to Lisa. "And your suggestion that it is a fabrication on our part to manipulate you in some way is offensive to my sensibilities, because that is not what happened."

 

"Fine," Lisa concedes. "I would like to withdraw it."

 

"I'm troubled that you continue to assume a victim role here instead of a helping role," Dr. Phil says to Lisa.