The Interview
Dr. Phil plays a portion of the NBC interview, where Bob Costas asked Sandusky if he is “completely innocent and falsely accused in every aspect.”

Sandusky replied, “Well, I could say that, you know, I have done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids. I, I have showered after workouts. I, I have hugged them and I’ve, I have touched their leg, without intent of sexual contact.”

Dr. Phil reacts. “I’ve been doing this for 35 years. I’m not an FBI interrogator, profiler or analyst, but every psychological fiber of my being says that is vague, circuitous and deceptive.” He points out that liars will often give a kernel of truth to try to contextualize differently. “‘I hugged them, I touched their leg,’” he says, looking perplexed.

Jack, an expert polygraph examiner, agrees. He says that everything Sandusky said in the interview had rationalization, minimization and deflection in his response. “All of the classic defense signals,” he says.

“I agree. He’s lying. He's deceiving, he's trying to cover it up, he's trying to minimize it. I mean, maybe it's true that it wasn't sexual intent because it's not sex. He was raping him,” Dr. Fradkin says.

In another part of the interview, Bob Costas questioned Sandusky about what happened the night McQuery says he walked in on him in the shower with a young boy.

[AD]Sandusky said, “OK, we were showering and horsing around. And he actually turned all the showers on and was actually sliding across the floor and um, and we were, as I recall, possibly, like, snapping a towel and horseplay.”

“Let’s just talk about what he admitted to,” Dr. Phil says. “He’s in the showers, after hours, with a 10-year-old boy. What the hell is he thinking? Who’s advising this guy?”

“When he starts telling Mr. Costas what he did and how he did it, it’s disjunctive,” Jack says. “And he’s going off in different directions, and he’s going through a mental process that’s going 180-miles-an-hour. He doesn’t know what to say.”Dr. Phil points out that a polygraph test might be reacting strongly at that point, indicating deception.

“Oh, this would be a no-brainer,” Jack says.

“It’s interesting that he didn’t deny what is blatantly inappropriate in any context: being in the showers, after hours, completely disrobed with a 10-year-old boy,” Dr. Phil says.

“That’s right, and he had been warned not to do that years before that,” Dr. Fradkin says. “It was wrong. It was absolutely wrong.”

In another part of the interview, Bob Costas asked Sandusky straight out if he’s sexually attracted to underage boys.

Sandusky replied, “Am I sexually attracted to underage boys? Sexually attracted? You know, I enjoy young people. I, I love to be around them. Um, I, I, but no, I’m not sexually attracted to young boys.”

[AD]Dr. Phil points out that it took Sandusky 16 seconds to say no. “Lassie could figure this out,” he says.

Jack notes, “He repeated the question back, he’s formulated an appropriate innocent response. In other words, ‘What can I say that they’ll believe?’ As soon as he goes through the process of ‘What should I say?’ it’s already too late. And then, as you pointed out, 16 seconds to say, ‘Uh-uh. I didn’t do it.’”

“They are allegations,” Dr. Phil points out. “That’s all I can say.”