Teacher Sex Scandal, Pt. 2: Results

Matt sat down for a polygraph test with Jack Tremarko, who is chairperson of the American Polygraph Association media and information committee, is a former FBI polygraph unit chief in Los Angeles, and who has administered close to 3,000 polygraphs tests.

Dr. Phil asks if Matt felt comfortable with Jack, and Matt confirms that he felt fine and that he understood the questions.

"The first question was, 'Did you ever experience touching for sexual purposes with Joelle Ogletree?'" says Dr. Phil. "And your answer was ... "

"Yes," says Matt.

"Second question," says Dr. Phil. "'Did Joelle ever touch your penis with her hand?' Your answer was ... "


"Jack, was that result truthful, or was it deceptive?" asks Dr. Phil.

Jack says, "It was deceptive, Dr. Phil."

"So, tell me, so we can be very clear, so Matt can be very clear," says Dr. Phil. "That was not a truthful answer."

"It was deceptive," Jack confirms.

"This wasn't a borderline interpretation, right?" asks Dr. Phil. "There's a range that can be inconclusive, and this was way outside that range."

"Clearly deceptive," Jack tells him. "Clearly outside."

"What do you say about that?" Dr. Phil asks Matt.

"Well, that was not the first polygraph I've taken," he says. "The first one passed. That one failed. We did talk about how they work. People who do not believe me on this subject have been calling me a liar to my face through interviews, through the radio, and I'm used to that. I don't know what to say. I thought everything was fine this morning when I took the test. I don't know what else that I can say. I'm telling the truth. I have no reason to make this up. I damn sure didn't want to go through those last two years of high school hearing what I heard over my shoulder, the students."

Joelle reacts visibly. "Oh, please," she says. "Dr. Phil, he wrote a poem about it, and made copies of it, and gave it to his friends."

"I didn't make the copies," says Matt.

"Did you write a poem about it?" asks Dr. Phil.

"Oh, yes," says Matt.

"What was the nature of the poem?" asks Dr. Phil.

"The assignment was for the Canterbury Tales," Matt recounts. "You write a poem that rhymes about an event that was in your life. That was the assignment."

"And you turned that in?"

"Yes," says Matt.

"And made copies and gave it to people," Joelle adds.

"Did you distribute it?" asks Dr. Phil.

"I didn't distribute it," says Matt. "It was made copies of. And it was all over the school, no doubt."

"In testimony he said he made the copies," Joelle reveals. "One testimony he said he didn't, and in another testimony he said he did." When Matt issues a denial, Joelle says, "Yes, he did. We can fax you the transcript."

"I did not physically make the copies and hand them out to the students," says Matt.

"Did you cause them to be copied?" Dr. Phil asks.

"No," says Matt. "The only copy that I had was the one I printed out. And no, I did not go through the school distributing this poem. I did it as an assignment. I had to read it in front of the class, and I did so."

"I didn't know he read it in front of the class," says Joelle. "My goodness. I'd like to know why that teacher allowed that too. I didn't know that until just now."

"Well, your husband was your teacher in high school," Matt counters, addressing Joelle.

Joelle looks squarely at him and says, "What does that have to do with a teacher allowing you to read a poem?"

"I see this chain here," Matt explains. "Doug taught you in high school, y'all got married, and then this happens with you and I and ****."

"What's your point?" asks Joelle.

"That's not clear enough?" says Matt. "You married your high school teacher."

"What are you implying?" asks Joelle.

"It's a little odd to me," says Matt. "I'm implying there's something's that's not quite right with this entire situation."

"You're implying that marrying your high school teacher makes you a pedophile? Is that what you're implying?"

"I'm not calling you a pedophile."

"Makes you someone who sexually molests underage people?" she clarifies.

"The state viewed it as molestation," says Matt. "I don't like that word. I didn't feel like I was molested by you."

"Because you weren't," Doug chimes in from the audience.

Jack jumps into the conversation, addressing Matt. Their exchange sounds not unlike the polygraph examination itself.

Jack: Were you 100 percent honest with me today on that polygraph test?
Matt: Yes sir, Jack. Yes I was.
Jack: And when I asked you, "Not in connection with this case, have you ever lied to get out of trouble?" what did you tell me?
Matt: I told you no.
Jack: Was that the truth?
Matt: That's the truth.
Jack: And, "Not in connection with this case have you ever lied to someone who loved or trusted you?"
Matt: No.
Jack: And that's the truth?
Matt: That's the truth.
Jack: And, "Not in connection with this case have you ever lied about anything really important?"
Matt: No.

Dr. Phil tells Matt, "Well you're the first person I've ever met who could say no to those three questions, including me."

Matt appears perplexed. "About just being a liar? I don't underst " "

"Well, I mean, we grow up," says Dr. Phil. "People tell lies when they're kids."

"Jack and I talked about the white lies," Matt explains. "If my sister asked me when she was pregant if she looked fat, I didn't say, 'Yeah, you look horrible.' We talked about those. Yes, I've said those. Many of those."

"OK. I just wanted to be clear," says Dr. Phil.

Dr. Phil invites his viewers to share their thoughts on this case. "Everybody knows I am a huge, huge fan of the teachers in our country. I think we pay them an embarrassingly small amount of money and give them an incredible amount of responsibility. And it's so important that we keep a balance there," he says.


He adds, "Matt, you maintain that you're telling the truth."

"Yes, sir," says Matt.

Dr. Phil continues, "The other gentleman who took the polygraph in Texas maintains that he's telling the truth and has gone back for a post-interview with the examiner and says, 'Maybe I failed because we had more sex than what I talked about, and I felt guilty about that.' So, I don't know how to respond to that, but those charts were conclusive in Texas, correct, Jack?"

"They were absolutely conclusive," he replies.


"And this chart was conclusive here, correct?"

"Yeah, that's right, Dr. Phil," says Jack.

In closing, Dr. Phil tells the former teacher, "Joelle, I hope this helps bring things to a close for you. Doug, I appreciate y'all having the strength and courage to be here." Turning to Matt, he says, "If you're telling the truth this has got to be very frustrating to you."

"Just a little," says the young man.

Dr. Phil says, "I can well imagine."